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Falconi wrote:So.. A massive Earth-Killing meteor is on its way to wipe out all life. Its not so huge that it will annihilate the Earth but certainly large enough to blanket it in a Greenhouse-enducing haze which will certainly make the planet uninhabitable for a millenea.

Question: Will any of the Uber-Powerful entites that prevent the inhabitants of Earth from reaching space do anything to prevent it? Will the killer satelites shoot it down? Will the Moon-Men who man constant vigil over the skies of Earth raise a finger to save us or would they be like, "Cool - now maybe I won't have to pull guard duty anymore." Would any of the Godlings that stick their heads through the Rifts look to the skies and think, "Well, if all the people here get killed, where will I go to get my soul-harvesting kicks?" or would they silently slink back into thier dimensional doorways to seek gainful entertainment elsewhere?

Falconi wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:First crack goes to the orbitals, if they don't act on it then Atlantis will make sure it gets dealt with, either by manipulating an earth power or sending a battle cruiser into earth space and turning it into a fine mist.

In that case, would the orbitals then attack the Atlantean ships? Would it end up being a suicide mission for the greater good of the Earth or would the Atlanteans simply 'Turn the satelites off' since we all know who 'Really' owns space..

Falconi wrote:Well that raises another question:

If Atlantis is so powerful, why would they even bother to save the Earth? Why not just go somewhere else? With a society as advanced as they are, what's keeping them here at all?

Falconi wrote:Well that raises another question:

If Atlantis is so powerful, why would they even bother to save the Earth? Why not just go somewhere else? With a society as advanced as they are, what's keeping them here at all?

Dr. Doom III wrote:No worries Nazca Line Makers will take care of it.

rat_bastard wrote:

Falconi wrote:Well that raises another question:

If Atlantis is so powerful, why would they even bother to save the Earth? Why not just go somewhere else? With a society as advanced as they are, what's keeping them here at all?

One, it bleeds high magic, which is a rare commodity in the universe and something the Splugorith need to live.

Two, Its a Breeding ground for thousands if not hundreds of thousands of different slaves, something which is valueable to them in the extreme. Lord Splyrnth is a Merchant first, everything else second.

Falconi wrote:

Mack wrote:For the Splugorth, the Earth is huge crossroads. From it, they can access any number of other planets / dimensions.

It's like setting up shop in the Atlanta airport... from it you can go anywhere. Sure you could live in Savanna, but you'd just end up flying through Atlanta everytime you went on a trip.

Is a primitive, technically inept melting pot of lifeforms really that important. It might be one thing if the inhabitants of Earth got there by choice, but typically they get here by accidental Rifts. So its really a gamble to rely on an Interdimensional Crossroad to be the sole source of your business.

duck-foot wrote:

Falconi wrote:Well that raises another question:

If Atlantis is so powerful, why would they even bother to save the Earth? Why not just go somewhere else? With a society as advanced as they are, what's keeping them here at all?

the high magic of earth would be a first. plus becuase earth is a dimensional hub of sorts the splugs cant loose that. it gives them a great chance at having and finding diffirent slaves/allies.

Alejandro wrote:It's already been stated that Splynncryth is on Earth because he finds it enjoyable. He won't go out of his way to save it because he already has plenty of planets and billions of people under his control. Atlantis is not some kind of lynch pin to his empire, it's his version of Las Vegas where you're able to do anything you want for a price. If the entire planet was in danger the likelihood is far greater he'd just teleport out with his highest servants and leave everything else to die. His investment in Earth is nowhere near what people are making it out to be.

The ley lines would still be there even after said meteor hit, so if he really cared about the "crossroads" of Earth he'd just teleport back after the impact and take the planet over completely with no resistance. Everything else would be dead or driven into hiding so it would actually be less of a resource drain to go that route than to expend forces in a takeover. Plus, if Earth and its rifts were so valuable to Splynncryth, he'd have long since taken complete control of the planet.

Earth is just entertainment to him, nothing more.

Jesterzzn wrote:

Alejandro wrote:It's already been stated that Splynncryth is on Earth because he finds it enjoyable. He won't go out of his way to save it because he already has plenty of planets and billions of people under his control. Atlantis is not some kind of lynch pin to his empire, it's his version of Las Vegas where you're able to do anything you want for a price. If the entire planet was in danger the likelihood is far greater he'd just teleport out with his highest servants and leave everything else to die. His investment in Earth is nowhere near what people are making it out to be.

The ley lines would still be there even after said meteor hit, so if he really cared about the "crossroads" of Earth he'd just teleport back after the impact and take the planet over completely with no resistance. Everything else would be dead or driven into hiding so it would actually be less of a resource drain to go that route than to expend forces in a takeover. Plus, if Earth and its rifts were so valuable to Splynncryth, he'd have long since taken complete control of the planet.

Earth is just entertainment to him, nothing more.

I'm thinking you need to reread the sections on Splynie's motives. People are not making it out to be anything other than what its stated to be. Earth, and specifically Atlantis is precisely what made Splynn a super-power in relation to other Splugorth. His market is one of the largest most varried and most traveled in the megaverse, and his "prestige" has been climbing ever higher. Splugorth seem to not care so much for power as they seem to simply use power to atain recognition and kudos from their fellow god-like beings. Being the MC of Earth, a place that many dimentional travelers use to get from one place to another, gives Splynn the kind of clout with his peer group all the other spluggies envy. I'm guessing he'd rather give up the rest of his empire than give up the recognition he's gained since opening Atlantis for business.

Samored II wrote:

Dr. Doom III wrote:No worries Nazca Line Makers will take care of it.

That would assume the in-bound meteor would approach on a vector where the Nazca lines could supress. Based on their geographic location they could not cover all approach paths.

Falconi wrote: So, Atlantis (Splynncryth) decides "The cost of saving the Earth would not be equitable in the long run and we're just gonna leave." So they pack up shop and take their business elsewhere.

Are there any other creatures, societies, entities that have the power to influence the outcome of the Earth-Killer? And if so, would they even bother?

Subjugator wrote:Splynncryth would demolish it for the same reason he'd stop an attack on Atlantis - it'd inconvenience him, and it'd be less of an inconvenience for him to send a bunch of guys topside to take care of it. Money? Cost? Whatever. I imagine that most of the Sploogies have cash on a scale nearing that of Thraxus.

/Sub

Mark Hall wrote:You then have the problem of how to get up there, and what to get up there. "How" is easily answered by an eclectic magical society... a teleportation circle on a nexus will get anything you need into orbit, at a relatively small cost (just one faerie). "What" is more difficult... it has to be strong enough to deflect or destroy the asteroid, and to survive the attacks of the orbitals.

My best guess, using North American factions, would be Lazlo, using technology purchased from Naruni or, perhaps, Triax (depending on the NGR's view of magic, they could be willing to deal with Lazlo for this... especially if Lazlo can get them a reliable space presence).

cyber-yukongil v2.5 wrote:I would think one of the umpteen dozen of Alien Intelligences or Demon Lords that want the planet for one nefarious plot or another, would eventually step in.

I couldn't see the Lord of the Deep caring (unless the meteor was going to land on him) or Nxxla (as it just give him more undead minions), but maybe Myrlynn, or maybe the Psynexx Entity.

as far as power blocs go, I'd think the Archons might do something about it, if they still have orbital capabilities.

Regardless, if a bunch of deep sea miners can crack a Earth Killer with just a nuke, I'm sure the mega-powers of Rifts Earth could handle it with little fuss.

Samored II wrote:The 3600 mile teleport circle range isn't enough to get the payload out of the debris field. According to Mutants in Orbit the containment barrier begins 100,000 miles out in orbit. Based on the impact damage rules, something trying to fly out through the debris field would be taking thousands of MDC per minute from micro-meteor strikes.

Mark Hall wrote:

Samored II wrote:The 3600 mile teleport circle range isn't enough to get the payload out of the debris field. According to Mutants in Orbit the containment barrier begins 100,000 miles out in orbit. Based on the impact damage rules, something trying to fly out through the debris field would be taking thousands of MDC per minute from micro-meteor strikes.

Which is utter idiocy, since people would be able to operate in LEO (<1240 miles), MEO (<22,240 miles), and even a good number of HEOs (>22,240 miles). Most of what the current space program does is in LEO. A containment barrier starting at 100,000 miles (almost half-way to the moon) is useless for keeping people out of space.

Mark Hall wrote:

Samored II wrote:The 3600 mile teleport circle range isn't enough to get the payload out of the debris field. According to Mutants in Orbit the containment barrier begins 100,000 miles out in orbit. Based on the impact damage rules, something trying to fly out through the debris field would be taking thousands of MDC per minute from micro-meteor strikes.

Which is utter idiocy, since people would be able to operate in LEO (<1240 miles), MEO (<22,240 miles), and even a good number of HEOs (>22,240 miles). Most of what the current space program does is in LEO. A containment barrier starting at 100,000 miles (almost half-way to the moon) is useless for keeping people out of space.

rat_bastard wrote:Btw you got a page number for that 100,000 mile up debris field? I cannot find that anywhere.

duck-foot wrote:

Mack wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:Btw you got a page number for that 100,000 mile up debris field? I cannot find that anywhere.

Seconded. That number isn't in Mutants In Orbit's description of the debris field.

no. but i have heard about that number before. it might be in a diffirent book or even a rifter.

Samored II wrote:

duck-foot wrote:

Mack wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:Btw you got a page number for that 100,000 mile up debris field? I cannot find that anywhere.

Seconded. That number isn't in Mutants In Orbit's description of the debris field.

no. but i have heard about that number before. it might be in a diffirent book or even a rifter.

My mistake, 100,000 miles is the radius of the radiation belts. The debris field extends 19,000 miles. Since 19,000 is 5.27X greater than 3600. It's still impossible to teleport beyond the debris field.

Talavar wrote:A serious group of high level magicians could stop it, given foreknowledge and some prep time.

Here's a possible techno-wizard solution: Get a Naruni contra-gravity jet pack (they have no max. altitude, and could fly into outer space if not for the killer satellites/debris field, and can move up to 2 tons of mass) and a cargo container. Enchant a suit of environmental armour & the cargo container with the TW additions Invisibility Superior and Teleport Superior, both at 10th level. Use an expensive amount of gems to get the activation costs way down. Fly into the upper atmosphere with up to 2 tons of explosives (heavy nukes, whatever) at the awesome speed of 10 miles/hour, go invisible, and when the debris field comes into sight, teleport past it (it can't be 3000 miles thick as well as encircling the world in a 100 000 mile orbit).

Continue flying invisible until you find your asteroid, plant the explosives, ditch the cargo container, and use the same combination of flying/teleporting & invisibility superior to get back to earth.

rat_bastard wrote:Once again, where are you getting this?

Samored II wrote:

Talavar wrote:A serious group of high level magicians could stop it, given foreknowledge and some prep time.

Here's a possible techno-wizard solution: Get a Naruni contra-gravity jet pack (they have no max. altitude, and could fly into outer space if not for the killer satellites/debris field, and can move up to 2 tons of mass) and a cargo container. Enchant a suit of environmental armour & the cargo container with the TW additions Invisibility Superior and Teleport Superior, both at 10th level. Use an expensive amount of gems to get the activation costs way down. Fly into the upper atmosphere with up to 2 tons of explosives (heavy nukes, whatever) at the awesome speed of 10 miles/hour, go invisible, and when the debris field comes into sight, teleport past it (it can't be 3000 miles thick as well as encircling the world in a 100 000 mile orbit).

Continue flying invisible until you find your asteroid, plant the explosives, ditch the cargo container, and use the same combination of flying/teleporting & invisibility superior to get back to earth.

Correct. The field is 19,000 miles thick and at a debris density of 1mg/cu-m an object would take 1800 MDC damage per minute exposure. That cargo container had better have a couple billion MDC to survive.

Samored II wrote:Correct. The field is 19,000 miles thick and at a debris density of 1mg/cu-m an object would take 1800 MDC damage per minute exposure. That cargo container had better have a couple billion MDC to survive.

Falconi wrote:

Samored II wrote:Correct. The field is 19,000 miles thick and at a debris density of 1mg/cu-m an object would take 1800 MDC damage per minute exposure. That cargo container had better have a couple billion MDC to survive.

Wait a minute.. First lets make a few assumptions... lets assume that your data is correct and lets assume that said container isn't moving at 19,000 miles per minute (Which would mean the container would only need 1801 MDC to survive and that the MDC-per minute is an arbitrary value because otherwise it would have to be a calculated value based on the velocity of *something* - either the container moving, the stuff in the field, or both).

Now given your density above, (1 miligram of matter per cubic meter) thats a total mass of about 1836 kilograms (4040 lbs or 2 short tons) floating in a 19,000mi x 196' x 196' area of space (This is the amount of mass you're likely to encounter if moving mind you, not the total mass of the field) if you're moving in a straight line with a cargo container that has a cube of 60m (Thats a big container! 588 sq. ft). Now since we're talking about mass here (As opposed to weight) - that would be like saying the debris field is either littered with small grains of lead or really *huge* pieces of styrofoam. Either way, unless they explode on impact with some sort of force multiplier or something, that's not a very dense field (You're going to encounter about 60 grains of lead/blocks of styrofoam for every meter you travel in one direction) and isn't likely to cause as much damage as your source suggests. Note I say dense again in reference to mass, not in object population.

So to be more precise, that is a very highly populated field of styrofoam...

I'm not trying to flame you Samored, all I'm really saying is that the author of the source you're quoting from obviously isn't a physicist..

Talavar wrote:

Samored II wrote:

Talavar wrote:A serious group of high level magicians could stop it, given foreknowledge and some prep time.

Here's a possible techno-wizard solution: Get a Naruni contra-gravity jet pack (they have no max. altitude, and could fly into outer space if not for the killer satellites/debris field, and can move up to 2 tons of mass) and a cargo container. Enchant a suit of environmental armour & the cargo container with the TW additions Invisibility Superior and Teleport Superior, both at 10th level. Use an expensive amount of gems to get the activation costs way down. Fly into the upper atmosphere with up to 2 tons of explosives (heavy nukes, whatever) at the awesome speed of 10 miles/hour, go invisible, and when the debris field comes into sight, teleport past it (it can't be 3000 miles thick as well as encircling the world in a 100 000 mile orbit).

Continue flying invisible until you find your asteroid, plant the explosives, ditch the cargo container, and use the same combination of flying/teleporting & invisibility superior to get back to earth.

Correct. The field is 19,000 miles thick and at a debris density of 1mg/cu-m an object would take 1800 MDC damage per minute exposure. That cargo container had better have a couple billion MDC to survive.

Gotta echo rat_bastard & Cybermancer - where are you getting these numbers? An artificial debris field 19 000 miles thick is ridiculously large; heck it'd probably block out a significant amount of the earth's sunlight that thick and with that kind of density.

Esckey wrote:THe book never actually says where or how thick it is. And even if it was 19 000miles thick it wouldn't jeopardize any station(espeically Laika that orbits the Moon)

glitterboy2098 wrote:or that it's 19,000 miles thick? i mean, shoot. that would put Liaka station in the middle of the field.

Subjugator wrote:

Samored II wrote:Correct. The field is 19,000 miles thick and at a debris density of 1mg/cu-m an object would take 1800 MDC damage per minute exposure. That cargo container had better have a couple billion MDC to survive.

Where on earth did you get the idea that it would take 1800 MDC per minute at 1mg/m^3?

/Sub