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Ok, so there's discussion throughout various books about how different alien races who can't speak can still cast magic in their own way, using gestures, or ultra-high frequencies, etc. However, there are also rules for casting spells while foregoing those words, gestures, etc, but it takes tons of concentration and time and effort.

Additiaonlly, classes like the Techno-wizard needs a physical focus through which to cast normal spells (firebolt through a gun, not just from the hands, etc). Same with cybermages, and a truckload of others.

It seems that the words, gestures, components, etc, are all just means of focus for a mage (correct me if i've overlooked something here). So couldn't a race have developed magic in a form not requiring those focuses? Developed it so that they can cast the equivalent of "nonverbal" spells, etc like those cast by bound and gagged mages, but w/o penalty because that's how they learned and how they have practiced and developed proficiency at doing it?

Maybe this would then require a really high IQ and ME, but it seems logical that this could happen and work.

Thoughts?

the skill ability takes twice as long to normally cast (see underseas for more details)
while the Sorc. proficiency, take the normal time to cast. (see rifter <I forgot which one, in the 20's I think> for more details)

As to the issues regarding how it takes thunder from psychics (what little they have), and the balance issues: I had considered those; I wasn't actually suggesting that such a race should be published or anything, just that within the way magic is written to work that it would be possible for such a casting method to be used as a standard.

[quote="drewkitty ~..~"]the skill ability takes twice as long to normally cast (see underseas for more details)/quote]

I recall the same thing.

Crazy Lou wrote:Ok, so there's discussion throughout various books about how different alien races who can't speak can still cast magic in their own way, using gestures, or ultra-high frequencies, etc. However, there are also rules for casting spells while foregoing those words, gestures, etc, but it takes tons of concentration and time and effort.

Just a note, ultra-high frequencies would still be talking, if that's their method of communication.

It seems that the words, gestures, components, etc, are all just means of focus for a mage (correct me if i've overlooked something here). So couldn't a race have developed magic in a form not requiring those focuses? Developed it so that they can cast the equivalent of "nonverbal" spells, etc like those cast by bound and gagged mages, but w/o penalty because that's how they learned and how they have practiced and developed proficiency at doing it?

According to Palladium Fantasy and the RBOM, they are necessary, not just focuses.

Mark Hall wrote:

Crazy Lou wrote:Ok, so there's discussion throughout various books about how different alien races who can't speak can still cast magic in their own way, using gestures, or ultra-high frequencies, etc. However, there are also rules for casting spells while foregoing those words, gestures, etc, but it takes tons of concentration and time and effort.

Just a note, ultra-high frequencies would still be talking, if that's their method of communication.

I know... I was just referencing examples of abnormal (from human standpoint) means of spellcasting. Sorry for the imprecise wording.

It seems that the words, gestures, components, etc, are all just means of focus for a mage (correct me if i've overlooked something here). So couldn't a race have developed magic in a form not requiring those focuses? Developed it so that they can cast the equivalent of "nonverbal" spells, etc like those cast by bound and gagged mages, but w/o penalty because that's how they learned and how they have practiced and developed proficiency at doing it?

According to Palladium Fantasy and the RBOM, they are necessary, not just focuses.

But BOM also has nonverbal casting rules. It's in the section on means of controlling captive mages.

In 4 words-Wu Shih Casting/Doublemind.
Mod that-any real Chi magic, & doesn't have to have the focus/hand gestures, mumble mumble.

Grandil wrote:In 4 words-Wu Shih Casting/Doublemind.
Mod that-any real Chi magic, & doesn't have to have the focus/hand gestures, mumble mumble.

Casting Chi magic needs stillness, so hand gestures & talking have no place in it.
double-mind? Do you mean the Z. Power 'Two-Minds'? if you do mean Two-Minds, then you had better re-read the power.

Casting chi magic is also very slow compared to western magic, taking a whole melee to cast.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Grandil wrote:In 4 words-Wu Shih Casting/Doublemind.
Mod that-any real Chi magic, & doesn't have to have the focus/hand gestures, mumble mumble.

Casting Chi magic needs stillness, so hand gestures & talking have no place in it.
double-mind? Do you mean the Z. Power 'Two-Minds'? if you do mean Two-Minds, then you had better re-read the power.

Casting chi magic is also very slow compared to western magic, taking a whole melee to cast.

I guess its up to semantics-In MC it's Doublemind, in Rifts Japan its Two-minds; I guess

Grandil wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Grandil wrote:In 4 words-Wu Shih Casting/Doublemind.
Mod that-any real Chi magic, & doesn't have to have the focus/hand gestures, mumble mumble.

Casting Chi magic needs stillness, so hand gestures & talking have no place in it.
double-mind? Do you mean the Z. Power 'Two-Minds'? if you do mean Two-Minds, then you had better re-read the power.

Casting chi magic is also very slow compared to western magic, taking a whole melee to cast.

I guess its up to semantics-In MC it's Doublemind, in Rifts Japan its Two-minds; I guess

In MC it's Two Minds (Jing Chi) and the two parts handle different sets of things. Much like the divitions defined in the RJapan book for the same version of the power there.

The only thing I can think of that would let you cast two chi magic spells @ one time would be the hero power "Multi-Tasking".

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Grandil wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Grandil wrote:In 4 words-Wu Shih Casting/Doublemind.
Mod that-any real Chi magic, & doesn't have to have the focus/hand gestures, mumble mumble.

Casting Chi magic needs stillness, so hand gestures & talking have no place in it.
double-mind? Do you mean the Z. Power 'Two-Minds'? if you do mean Two-Minds, then you had better re-read the power.

Casting chi magic is also very slow compared to western magic, taking a whole melee to cast.

I guess its up to semantics-In MC it's Doublemind, in Rifts Japan its Two-minds; I guess

In MC it's Two Minds (Jing Chi) and the two parts handle different sets of things. Much like the divitions defined in the RJapan book for the same version of the power there.

The only thing I can think of that would let you cast two chi magic spells @ one time would be the hero power "Multi-Tasking".

GDMITA-you're right drewkitty-where IS doublemind?

Magic Requires some kind of focusing act or it is just a superpower or Psionic ability, it doesn't mater if the act is speaking strange words, making wild gestures,waving a stick, twitching your nose or wiggling your ears.
To cast spells without this focusing act should be very difficult (twice normal P.P.E.), require intense consentration(twice normal time doing nothing but thinking about the spell, ANY distration and you have to start over) and should never be as 100% effective as when normaly cast (cast at half the caster normal proficency).
Even given this ALL combat trained Mages should have learned the basics of how this is done durring their training

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Grandil wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Grandil wrote:In 4 words-Wu Shih Casting/Doublemind.
Mod that-any real Chi magic, & doesn't have to have the focus/hand gestures, mumble mumble.

Casting Chi magic needs stillness, so hand gestures & talking have no place in it.
double-mind? Do you mean the Z. Power 'Two-Minds'? if you do mean Two-Minds, then you had better re-read the power.

Casting chi magic is also very slow compared to western magic, taking a whole melee to cast.

I guess its up to semantics-In MC it's Doublemind, in Rifts Japan its Two-minds; I guess

In MC it's Two Minds (Jing Chi) and the two parts handle different sets of things. Much like the divitions defined in the RJapan book for the same version of the power there.

The only thing I can think of that would let you cast two chi magic spells @ one time would be the hero power "Multi-Tasking".

Also, I think that the Battlemagus can cast one spell after another, although this might be problematic with the spells
cast per round.......