Hypothetical Question: Chi Town Annihilated!

[Nekira Sudacne]

It's a bright and sunny day in Illinois (Hey, I said 'Hypothetical'!). Suddenly the serenity is shattered by a deep and powerful rumbling underfoot. Earthquake? No.. The rising mushroom cloud on the horizon speaks of a man made calamity. Pulling out your bino's and peering through them reveals a massive cloud of smoke, vapor and debris where Chi town and its surrounding 'Burbs used to be. Nothing remains. The seat of Coalition Power has been erased from existance, along with its primary leadership.

Question: Will the Coalition fall? Or will the loss of its capitol city only serve to allow a new emperor and a new regime to rise from the ashes? Crippling blow to the Coalition or a tragic but recoverable event that will only serve to strenghten the hearts, minds and cohesion of its citizens?

The Coalition would fall. Although I doubt one nuke would destroy Chi-Town.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Well, it could have been a chain reaction considering how many mini nuclear reactors are probably sitting around in there...

No. Dispite what hollywood tells you, I can assure you that it is completely physically impossible for one nuke to start a chain reaction with power plants. Seriously, There's no way it can physically happen. It's a holywood myth. You can denoate the nuke right outside the reactor core and all that'd happen is you blow the plant sky-high. It wouldn't experiance any additional power, although the radioactive fallout from the scattered material would be much greater.

So if the Coalition falls, who fills in the power gap that's created? Also, does the Coalition really have all their 'eggs in one basket' so to speak such that the loss of one city would be its death knell?

Because it dosn't have a choice, really. It's the only one who's geography can supply enough food, safety, and manpower to make it work.

[Captain Shiva]

Most of the other CS states would form an alliance with Free Quebec, also bringing in Northern Gun, to help maintain something of a status quo.

[glitterboy2098]

No. Dispite what hollywood tells you, I can assure you that it is completely physically impossible for one nuke to start a chain reaction with power plants. Seriously, There's no way it can physically happen. It's a holywood myth. You can denoate the nuke right outside the reactor core and all that'd happen is you blow the plant sky-high. It wouldn't experiance any additional power, although the radioactive fallout from the scattered material would be much greater.

Well, to say that it's physically impossible is untrue given reactors that have a fairly close proximity. All that is needed is the introduction of additional neutrons into a nuclear core to generate additional reaction (Note: The yield of neutrons produced with Uranium-235 is 212 Neutrons per reaction, creating the possibility of 212 additional reactions). If the shielding of one reactor were to be comprimised by the explosion of another while fission is still taking place, it's possible to chain-react the breached reactor. I think the probability of a chain reaction is more the issue.

induce more nuetrons into the core elements of a nuclear reactor, the reaction grows....resulting in a meltdown that just means instead of radioactive shrapnel being spread by the initial explosion, it's radioactive molten shrapnel....
if the plant loses it's shielding, it wouldn't be able to reach the state of intense rapid reaction needed for the explosive release of energy. that sheilding is one of the elements that reflects nuetrons back into the reactor to sustain the reaction. breach it, and those nuetrons escape, reducing the reaction.

for nuclear stuff to blow up into a nuclear explosion, it has to be designed to blow up into a nuclear explosion. the physics of the chain reactions just don't allow it any other way.

[Nekira Sudacne]

No. Dispite what hollywood tells you, I can assure you that it is completely physically impossible for one nuke to start a chain reaction with power plants. Seriously, There's no way it can physically happen. It's a holywood myth. You can denoate the nuke right outside the reactor core and all that'd happen is you blow the plant sky-high. It wouldn't experiance any additional power, although the radioactive fallout from the scattered material would be much greater.

Well, to say that it's physically impossible is untrue given reactors that have a fairly close proximity. All that is needed is the introduction of additional neutrons into a nuclear core to generate additional reaction (Note: The yield of neutrons produced with Uranium-235 is 212 Neutrons per reaction, creating the possibility of 212 additional reactions). If the shielding of one reactor were to be comprimised by the explosion of another while fission is still taking place, it's possible to chain-react the breached reactor. I think the probability of a chain reaction is more the issue.

induce more nuetrons into the core elements of a nuclear reactor, the reaction grows....resulting in a meltdown that just means instead of radioactive shrapnel being spread by the initial explosion, it's radioactive molten shrapnel....
if the plant loses it's shielding, it wouldn't be able to reach the state of intense rapid reaction needed for the explosive release of energy. that sheilding is one of the elements that reflects nuetrons back into the reactor to sustain the reaction. breach it, and those nuetrons escape, reducing the reaction.

for nuclear stuff to blow up into a nuclear explosion, it has to be designed to blow up into a nuclear explosion. the physics of the chain reactions just don't allow it any other way.

Actually, my point is by the time the nutrons actually reach the other reactor core in sufficent numbers, all that's gonna happen is the explosive force of the first Nuke is gonna blow the second one way away, meaning they're no longer close enough togeather to chain react because the explosion hitting them will blast the uranium in the reactor away before enough nutrons are introduced to make any sort of difference.

[dark brandon]

Simply stated: What was left would unite and become far more bloodthursty. They'd probably fall under the leadership of bradford or Quebec or be lead by holmes.

Either way...all nations in NA would breathe a sigh of releaf...and then become insainly paranoid...if it did that to the strongest nation in NA imagine what it could do to them...You'd probably see a very polarizing effect all over NA

[Dustin Fireblade]

Most of the other CS states would form an alliance with Free Quebec, also brining in Northern Gun, to help maintain something a status quo.

In this instance, would we see a change in attitude in the CS? Perhaps a more (or less) tollerant society? Perhaps with the coming of an alliance, a more Democratic or Council-Based leadership?

Well I think the CS actually civilized Iron Heart by bringing them in.

Anyway I see the power shifting to a New Chillicothe/Whykin/Ft. El-Dorado alliance.

NG and MI would likely stay allied with Iron Heart.

Quebec might just stay independent, but loosely ally themselves with NG/MI/IH.

What Bradford would do in Lone Star is anyone's guess, but I can see the powers of Los Alamos and New El Paso joining with the CS remnants there to form a new nation. Likely all guided somehow by Bradford, if for no other reason as to create a stable government around him so he can keep working.

[MikelAmroni]

Okay first, let's take the discussion as it was presented. Chi Town is gone. Discussing the yield of nukes and the chain reaction of them is purely not the point

Second - It would depend on who was in and who was out of Chi Town at the time. Assuming all the major players of the regime were in Chi Town, then Free Quebec would emerge as the supreme power in all of North America, and Lone Star would splinter off into its own little special place. Bradford would reinvent the human race, as no one would be around that he would feel he had a need to listen to - he would have no equals. His "neo-humans" would overtake and conquer the major powers in Lone Star, and armies of mutant animals led by mutant humans would create a stable power in the South. I'd be surprised if he didn't manage some sort of a mind transfer for himself into a mutant human body. Northen Gun and MI would join with Iron heart, and POSSIBLY FQ. And then only if FQ decided it needed to be in charge just to maintain stability. NG and MI would remain independant, but tied just as closely to IH and FQ. Fort Eldorado would join Bradford's nation, or it would move to establish a hold over the farms of Iowa and what remained of Illinois. The other option is someone could come out of Iowa and knock everyone's socks off and step up and create a stable state. I'm not sure what would be the basis for this, but it is possible (if unlikely).

The bugs would expand at their same rate - only without a buffer in place. I would expect Tolkeen to get reestablished, only it would be a much darker place than it was before. The Federation of Magic would push for a major recolonization effort, although there is a good chance so would Lazlo - in order to eliminate the growing influence of the FoM. The FoM would increase their terroristic activities against former CS holdings - or at Least Dunscan's folks would. Actually with Chi Town gone, I could see Stormspire relocating to Tolkeen as well. Its just to big a prize for someone not to go after. I doubt FQ would be able to maintain the hold over it that the CS currently has - not enough anti-magic troops.

The other REAL possibility is the emergence of the Republicans and them sweeping in and taking over where the CS left off, and establishing themselves somewhere. Iowa? Somewhere else in Illinois? Perhaps Fort El Dorado? Not likely there, but still. But then you have to worry about an upswing in Archie's operations and his opposition of the Republicans. The Sherriman could declare themselves the protectors of humanity and have their numbers explode.

It has real merit as an alternate timeline, honestly.

[glitterboy2098]

for nuclear stuff to blow up into a nuclear explosion, it has to be designed to blow up into a nuclear explosion. the physics of the chain reactions just don't allow it any other way.

The Coalition has nukes. Low yield perhaps, but to suggest otherwise when half of their stuff is nuclear powered is ludicrous. In addition, in our lifetimes (Some of us crustier people at any rate) we've seen the effects of a similar disaster with the Chernobyl reactor incident in '86. Again, whose to say it wasn't an act of sabotage? But to flat out say that it's physically impossible to chain react nuclear cells is painting with a *very* wide brush...

Chernobyl was a catastrophic meltdown created due ot poorly designed, poorly, maintained, and poorly operated safety features around a poorly designed reactor. a test of a new emergency power turbine was bungled, resulting in uncontrolled meltdown. this melt down caused the reactors coolant to vaporize, resulting in a pressure explosion that leveled the building and put a cloud of radioactive dust into the atmosphere.
it was not a nuclear explosion.

as for the CS's nukes, yes they have nukes. they have 200kt city busters, in fact. all it would take is a single nuke inside chi-town to destroy it. nuclear weapons cannot set off nearby nuclear weapons. the physics don't allow it. the design of the warheads is such to prevent distant nuclear blasts from arming the warheads, as well.

so talk of "nuclear chain detonations" is pointless here. Chi-town vanishing in this scenario could easily be the result of a single action of smuggling by the republicans, the FoM, tolkeenite rebels, or whoever.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

Okay first, let's take the discussion as it was presented. Chi Town is gone. Discussing the yield of nukes and the chain reaction of them is purely not the point

Second - It would depend on who was in and who was out of Chi Town at the time. Assuming all the major players of the regime were in Chi Town, then Free Quebec would emerge as the supreme power in all of North America, and Lone Star would splinter off into its own little special place. Bradford would reinvent the human race, as no one would be around that he would feel he had a need to listen to - he would have no equals. His "neo-humans" would overtake and conquer the major powers in Lone Star, and armies of mutant animals led by mutant humans would create a stable power in the South. I'd be surprised if he didn't manage some sort of a mind transfer for himself into a mutant human body. Northen Gun and MI would join with Iron heart, and POSSIBLY FQ. And then only if FQ decided it needed to be in charge just to maintain stability. NG and MI would remain independant, but tied just as closely to IH and FQ. Fort Eldorado would join Bradford's nation, or it would move to establish a hold over the farms of Iowa and what remained of Illinois. The other option is someone could come out of Iowa and knock everyone's socks off and step up and create a stable state. I'm not sure what would be the basis for this, but it is possible (if unlikely).

The bugs would expand at their same rate - only without a buffer in place. I would expect Tolkeen to get reestablished, only it would be a much darker place than it was before. The Federation of Magic would push for a major recolonization effort, although there is a good chance so would Lazlo - in order to eliminate the growing influence of the FoM. The FoM would increase their terroristic activities against former CS holdings - or at Least Dunscan's folks would. Actually with Chi Town gone, I could see Stormspire relocating to Tolkeen as well. Its just to big a prize for someone not to go after. I doubt FQ would be able to maintain the hold over it that the CS currently has - not enough anti-magic troops.

The other REAL possibility is the emergence of the Republicans and them sweeping in and taking over where the CS left off, and establishing themselves somewhere. Iowa? Somewhere else in Illinois? Perhaps Fort El Dorado? Not likely there, but still. But then you have to worry about an upswing in Archie's operations and his opposition of the Republicans. The Sherriman could declare themselves the protectors of humanity and have their numbers explode.

It has real merit as an alternate timeline, honestly.

I like this outcome, I like it alot. this seems pretty likely, and I would have gone with a similar answer, though not quite this good.
But I have to ask who, when, where, how, huh???? I can't see this as happening, after all "word of god" is that the CS, chitown in particular, is L337 H4x0RZ t3h PWN. Oh and everyone everywhere is a complete idiot as soon as they see dead boys. Also, noone but chitown has these nukes as far as I know. 'Course they coulda just blown themselves up.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

The Coalition States would fall apart into various sized pieces. The stronger remaining states would have the best chance of remaining stable but will be put to the test by opportunistic military and civilian leaders, while the weaker states will collapse into anarchy. It would remain this way until a new unifying NPC was rolled up to form Coalition 2.0.

Truely Epic Statement. I think that somehow all the important NPC's would survive, with no complications from fallout, and rebuild. In three days, 'cuz thats how long it takes to rebuild Gods Temple.

please take no religious offense as this is not meant as blasphemy, merely as a satirical statement about how KevSim has Shepherded the Coalition.

[Lenwen]

Chi town and its surrounding 'Burbs used to be. Nothing remains. The seat of Coalition Power has been erased from existance, along with its primary leadership.

Question: Will the Coalition fall? Or will the loss of its capitol city only serve to allow a new emperor and a new regime to rise from the ashes? Crippling blow to the Coalition or a tragic but recoverable event that will only serve to strenghten the hearts, minds and cohesion of its citizens?

The Chi-Town Megacity utterly destroyed ..means totally new bloodline as the eventual successor not to mention Now Bradly is 100% free to do what ever he wants down in Lone Star . Creating what ever he desires to create with out the High Command or the Emp to answer to anymore Lone Star would really quickly take over the Pacos Empire .

The scattered remains of the CS would form a loose knit alliance with FQ .. who would with out a doubt be the new head of what will now become the new Power of the American continent .

I see the Shemarrian Nation as the beginings of a Higher power after the fall of Chi-Town , they will be looked at as being nearly unstoppable now that they have little to fear due to CS troop movement due to the CS military being cut at LEAST in half .. if not more .

Archie 3-oz would view this as a catastophic loss .. and would start to investigate what had happened and who was at fault and would effectivly target them as Archie DOES want to take over the CS , not kill them .. Archie 3 would be the defacto power on the North American Continent until either the FQ led new alliance had built up its military to what the CS had at 1 time or even built it up beyond that which the CS had .

Either way .. my personal opinion would be that of .. archie taking over VAST area's of the N.A continent as well as Desmond taking over by force the Pacos Empire power block by power block , by kidnapping the individual leaders of the bands an replacing them with brainwashed clones .

[Mech-Viper Prime]

chi-town gone. I dont see this as the end of the coalition much as a destroying washington DC would end the USA, while taking out the top leadership of the coalition, will hurt the coalition but i can see one of the generals taking charged , it may be a couple of years of infighting but i can see people using the attack on chi-town as a rallying cry for the coalition , so if it doesnt destroy the coalition, an truly united coalition force to deal with.

[Lenwen]

chi-town gone. I dont see this as the end of the coalition much as a destroying washington DC would end the USA,

You DO .. know that Chi-Town has roughly .. HALF .. of the overall military in the CS right ?

If Chi-Town is instantly .. decintagrated (Sp?) so is half of the CS military . And I believe that would place thier military at or around 450,000 or less .. and so far that I know .. thats being generous .. in the extream .

[Mech-Viper Prime]

chi-town gone. I dont see this as the end of the coalition much as a destroying washington DC would end the USA,

You DO .. know that Chi-Town has roughly .. HALF .. of the overall military in the CS right ?

If Chi-Town is instantly .. decintagrated (Sp?) so is half of the CS military . And I believe that would place thier military at or around 450,000 or less .. and so far that I know .. thats being generous .. in the extream .

yes half the military is just guarding one city.

[MikelAmroni]

yes half the military is just guarding one city.

You're underestimating the importance of that one city. While I think half is a bit much, a third isn't too hard to be believed - and its likely somewhere in the middle. Chi Town is the clearing house for Iowa's grain and the main manufacturing center, with Lone Star being second, and Iron heart being third (even though technically Lone Star has greater capacity). Combine this with being the spiritual center of the CS, the home of the Prozek Regime, and generally THE city considered by most to be the stick to measure all other cities by, and you have the loss of the single most important city in North America. It would be more like you mixed Detroit, Washignton, DC, and New York into one large mega city (in terms of importance), and then wiped it off the face of the world. Could North America recover? oh yeah, especially with time, but it would be hard to do, and it would be painful for everyone.

I like this outcome, I like it alot. this seems pretty likely, and I would have gone with a similar answer, though not quite this good.
But I have to ask who, when, where, how, huh???? I can't see this as happening, after all "word of god" is that the CS, chitown in particular, is L337 H4x0RZ t3h PWN. Oh and everyone everywhere is a complete idiot as soon as they see dead boys. Also, noone but chitown has these nukes as far as I know. 'Course they coulda just blown themselves up.

BTW, which outcome, I listed at least three or four

Actually I could come up with several good possibilities. Keep in mind all of these have stumbling points which make them unlikely in the extreme - but with this sort of event, you are definately moving things along by plot, not by things you'd let your players get away with. FoM decides that instead of going directly after the CS, they will use patsies. They brain wash a bunch of scientists with a subconscious hatred for the CS, but also a burning genocidal desire to see the city gone. On a major holiday when all the players are in town (the emperor's birthday or something, who cares), said scientists set off a perfectly timed Nuclear explosion. Chaos ensues, and Dunscan rejoices, and tries to hold together his network when their major focus for existance is gone. Free Quebec wouldn't range that far south, and no one else aside from Bradford would have the capability to oppose him, at least from the old CS.

Another plausible explanation involved the Republicans. Republican movers and shakers decide that while Chi-Town is a major player, and its destruction would hurt North America, its end would have a better effect overall than allowing the CS to ruin what is left of their chances at restoring the US. So a few "patriots" get themselves in place, and set off same self said perfectly planned destruction of Chi Town, while limiting the impact to the outlying farm lands as much as possible. The Republicans, after all, want to pick up the pieces, not destroy the very breadbasket they hope to take over. At the same time, they'd move on New Chillicothe (it wouldn't be that hard to make sure and get sympathizers there - its fairly low priority in terms of threats - its main role is to protect the farm lands) and set up shop, and start expanding it quietly, all the while claiming to be the ones in charge, If they actually have influence over Holmes, like many seem to think, he could fall back to there and become a new figurehead, or even an actual effective leader.

And I can come up with yet one more possibility, and this one would be for those who want Free Quebec to rule everything, by any means necessary. Same situation as the Republicans, except that it is FQ agents doing it all. FQ comes in and starts providing major aid to the devastated areas, has New Chillicothe join them as a protectorate, and tries to woo in Iron heart and Fort El Dorado. Iron Heart, in this situation, I see becoming their own thing, joining in an alliance with Ishpeming and Manstique, Arkansas would join with Quebec in the NCS (New Coalition States). Lone Star would become its own entity, as previously outlined, but wouldn't actively act against fellow humans - at least not until they had acheived significant control.

In both cases, I don't see the overall sentiment allowing them to do something like this, but that has never stopped a few "patriots" from doing what they feel is necessary for the "good" of the country.

[runebeo]

Have you read the sheer size of the CS navy and their are lots of CS bases and outposts scattered throughout North America. The CS would recover in time and be looking for vengeance, sorry make that some overkill! Something like that would make them think about spreading out their forces more in the future. The Emperor would be firing his nukes at the the nation that fired them and maybe a few parting nukes for some other nations like Lazlo & heres a few for our old friends in Quebec for not knowing there place.

[AzathothXy]

I say FQ would jump into fill the CHi Town vacuum. Offer alliances to the other CS states(many of which are just extensions of Chi Town and probably stunned into inaction), form a new Coalition and then start running the show their way. Bradford, the only other human he respects dead, secedes and does his own thing.

[Jeffrey W.]

With the loss of Chi Town, I find it entirely possible that the entire state of Chi Town would be a loss shortly thereafter.

Let us not forget that the Federation of Magic would pounce on the CS, not to mention the remnants of Tolkeen, in such a scenario.

The only reason that the Coalition might survive at all would be intervention on the part of Free Quebec in their hour of need.

Iron Heart would never defer leadership to Free Quebec, nor would the Quebecois want it.

The CS would just never be the same again.

Jeffrey W.

[AzathothXy]

With the loss of Chi Town, I find it entirely possible that the entire state of Chi Town would be a loss shortly thereafter.

Let us not forget that the Federation of Magic would pounce on the CS, not to mention the remnants of Tolkeen, in such a scenario.

The only reason that the Coalition might survive at all would be intervention on the part of Free Quebec in their hour of need.

Iron Heart would never defer leadership to Free Quebec, nor would the Quebecois want it.

The CS would just never be the same again.

Jeffrey W.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. When confronted with an allinace with FQ or facing the enemies of humanity alone, Iron Heart will thake the lesser of two evils. IMO.

[Lenwen]

chi-town gone. I dont see this as the end of the coalition much as a destroying washington DC would end the USA,

You DO .. know that Chi-Town has roughly .. HALF .. of the overall military in the CS right ?

If Chi-Town is instantly .. decintagrated (Sp?) so is half of the CS military . And I believe that would place thier military at or around 450,000 or less .. and so far that I know .. thats being generous .. in the extream .

yes half the military is just guarding one city.

Chi-Town = six army corps assigned to its defense , plus ISS forces and another 30+ regular army corps at its immediat disposal

1 army corp = 11,520 troops , counting the other 6 army corps which brings the total just off of army corps to .. 414,720 troops .

An that is with out the ISS force "Corps" which are not given any numerical amount .

I'd CLEARLY .. say thats roughly half .. of the coalitions current as of this date , military after the tolkeen war .

Personally I do not think the Coalition has over 800,000 total troop strength as of this current rifts timeline I DO believe they could easily have that after they go on a "recruiting" bing threw out all CS territories from the burbs .. to supplement thier now under 800,000 troops .

But right now ? No way they have 800,000 troops left . (after the tolkeen war)

[Mech-Viper Prime]

chi-town gone. I dont see this as the end of the coalition much as a destroying washington DC would end the USA,

You DO .. know that Chi-Town has roughly .. HALF .. of the overall military in the CS right ?

If Chi-Town is instantly .. decintagrated (Sp?) so is half of the CS military . And I believe that would place thier military at or around 450,000 or less .. and so far that I know .. thats being generous .. in the extream .

yes half the military is just guarding one city.

Chi-Town = six army corps assigned to its defense , plus ISS forces and another 30+ regular army corps at its immediat disposal

1 army corp = 11,520 troops , counting the other 6 army corps which brings the total just off of army corps to .. 414,720 troops .

An that is with out the ISS force "Corps" which are not given any numerical amount .

I'd CLEARLY .. say thats roughly half .. of the coalitions current as of this date , military after the tolkeen war .

Personally I do not think the Coalition has over 800,000 total troop strength as of this current rifts timeline I DO believe they could easily have that after they go on a "recruiting" bing threw out all CS territories from the burbs .. to supplement thier now under 800,000 troops .

But right now ? No way they have 800,000 troops left . (after the tolkeen war)

so is that for just chi-town city or the entire chi town state

[cornholioprime]

The Coalition has nukes. Low yield perhaps, but to suggest otherwise when half of their stuff is nuclear powered is ludicrous. In addition, in our lifetimes (Some of us crustier people at any rate) we've seen the effects of a similar disaster with the Chernobyl reactor incident in '86. Again, whose to say it wasn't an act of sabotage? But to flat out say that it's physically impossible to chain react nuclear cells is painting with a *very* wide brush...

this is a common misconception about how Nuclear Detonations work.

In order to successfully fire one off, you have to have not only a source of fuel, and what is known as a Critical Mass of the material in question, but you also have to have the atoms amking up the nuclear fuel all in extremely close proximity to one another.

That's what conventional (and even unconventional) Nuclear Devices do; early ones use directed Conventional Explosives to force the radioactive atoms of the selected element into one tight, tiny place; newer Nuclear Devices use a directed explosion to cause a miniature Nuclear Reaction, in a very confined space -all this stuff takes place on the atomic and subatomic levels -which in turn is specially designed to force a secondary radioactive material into a very, very small space.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of "bad" news, but you simply CANNOT get one Nuke to set off all the others in such a haphazard fashion because the initial detonation was NOT specially designed or contained in the same manner.

All that you get from such an interaction is one central nuclear explosion......and a whole lot of extra fallout from whatever other radioactive materials are spread to the winds by the first blast.


EDIT: Saw your postings after this.

Never mind what I just said.

[Lenwen]

chi-town gone. I dont see this as the end of the coalition much as a destroying washington DC would end the USA,

You DO .. know that Chi-Town has roughly .. HALF .. of the overall military in the CS right ?

If Chi-Town is instantly .. decintagrated (Sp?) so is half of the CS military . And I believe that would place thier military at or around 450,000 or less .. and so far that I know .. thats being generous .. in the extream .

yes half the military is just guarding one city.

Chi-Town = six army corps assigned to its defense , plus ISS forces and another 30+ regular army corps at its immediat disposal

1 army corp = 11,520 troops , counting the other 6 army corps which brings the total just off of army corps to .. 414,720 troops .

An that is with out the ISS force "Corps" which are not given any numerical amount .

I'd CLEARLY .. say thats roughly half .. of the coalitions current as of this date , military after the tolkeen war .

Personally I do not think the Coalition has over 800,000 total troop strength as of this current rifts timeline I DO believe they could easily have that after they go on a "recruiting" bing threw out all CS territories from the burbs .. to supplement thier now under 800,000 troops .

But right now ? No way they have 800,000 troops left . (after the tolkeen war)

so is that for just chi-town city or the entire chi town state

The way it is written it could be taken either or .. Considering that Chi-Town is the seat of power of the entire Coalition and would naturally be the most heavily defended City-Fortress in thier empire .

[Lenwen]

The Coalition has nukes. Low yield perhaps, but to suggest otherwise when half of their stuff is nuclear powered is ludicrous.

Having Nuclear Power does not equate to you having Nuclear weapons. One does not equate to the other. For any sort of real world counterpart , look no further then N.Korea , who DO have Nuclear powered plants but do not as of this post have a workable Nuclear weapon.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

The way it is written it could be taken either or .. Considering that Chi-Town is the seat of power of the entire Coalition and would naturally be the most heavily defended City-Fortress in thier empire .

true, but the question was about the chi-town city not chi-town state, somehow i dont think old kark would leave the rest of the area open for attack given there are other coalition cities and towns within CS states of Chi-town , so chi-town as a state may have a large number of troops and the city might have have a larger number too but not half the military guarding it

[Lenwen]

The way it is written it could be taken either or .. Considering that Chi-Town is the seat of power of the entire Coalition and would naturally be the most heavily defended City-Fortress in thier empire .

true, but the question was about the chi-town city not chi-town state, somehow i dont think old kark would leave the rest of the area open for attack given there are other coalition cities and towns within CS states of Chi-town , so chi-town as a state may have a large number of troops and the city might have have a larger number too but not half the military guarding it

I personally think it would be totally plausible , doubly so when you consider that Chi-Town is the training center for the military as well. This is of course going along with the line of thought that Chi-Town IS the place in which the CS Trains its new recruite's .

[Dustin Fireblade]

The way it is written it could be taken either or .. Considering that Chi-Town is the seat of power of the entire Coalition and would naturally be the most heavily defended City-Fortress in thier empire .

true, but the question was about the chi-town city not chi-town state, somehow i dont think old kark would leave the rest of the area open for attack given there are other coalition cities and towns within CS states of Chi-town , so chi-town as a state may have a large number of troops and the city might have have a larger number too but not half the military guarding it

I personally think it would be totally plausible , doubly so when you consider that Chi-Town is the training center for the military as well. This is of course going along with the line of thought that Chi-Town IS the place in which the CS Trains its new recruite's .

CWC is pretty clear - pg 37.

The city of Chi-Town has six Army Corps assigned for its defense. There are another 30+ Corps at its immediate disposal because they are located at bases and training camps throughout the state of Chi-Town.

Six or more Army Corps are assigned to each state. Each state has additional uncommitted corps. (Likely part of the Rapid Deployment Force)

A single Army Corp is assigned to important or densely populated cities

[Dustin Fireblade]

Is it written anywhere just how many regular corps the Coalition maintains?

Not to my knowledge, and I doubt if we ever see hard numbers. But you figure a million man army and they use 11,520 in a Corps - that's close to 90 corps.

[Lenwen]

Is it written anywhere just how many regular corps the Coalition maintains?

Not to my knowledge, and I doubt if we ever see hard numbers. But you figure a million man army and they use 11,520 in a Corps - that's close to 90 corps.

Course that is "prior" to the Tolkeen metaplot. After the Tolkeen metaplot the Coalition will have been lucky to keep even 800,000 man standing military.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Is it written anywhere just how many regular corps the Coalition maintains?

Not to my knowledge, and I doubt if we ever see hard numbers. But you figure a million man army and they use 11,520 in a Corps - that's close to 90 corps.

Course that is "prior" to the Tolkeen metaplot. After the Tolkeen metaplot the Coalition will have been lucky to keep even 800,000 man standing military.

Yeah those figures were pre-SoT.

On the other hand, Aftermath pg 139 says that the people have been "rushing to join the Army in droves" and this has "swelled the ranks of the Coalition Army"

So when the Minion Wars come to Rifts Earth, I expect them to have TWO million in the Army!!

[Lenwen]

Is it written anywhere just how many regular corps the Coalition maintains?

Not to my knowledge, and I doubt if we ever see hard numbers. But you figure a million man army and they use 11,520 in a Corps - that's close to 90 corps.

Course that is "prior" to the Tolkeen metaplot. After the Tolkeen metaplot the Coalition will have been lucky to keep even 800,000 man standing military.

Yeah those figures were pre-SoT.

On the other hand, Aftermath pg 139 says that the people have been "rushing to join the Army in droves" and this has "swelled the ranks of the Coalition Army"

So when the Minion Wars come to Rifts Earth, I expect them to have TWO million in the Army!!

With a 2 million standing military you will have the force of 1 ground pounder per 3 supply type of military. So then you take the 2 million divide it by 3 and that is what you would get for your front line troops.

At least that is roughly what the U.S. uses its either a 1-3 or a 1-4.

*Edit*
But as of right now this very moment. The CS has less then 800,000 overall TOTAL troop strength.

[Dustin Fireblade]

*Edit*
But as of right now this very moment. The CS has less then 800,000 overall TOTAL troop strength.

Nope they just got a new recruit and that makes 800,001!


Personally though I hope the Minion Wars pretty much wipes everything off of North America (and the rest of the world too) and causes a 3rd Dark Age.

[Cybermancer]

If Chi-Town was suddenly blown off the face of the map by whatever reason, one of a few things would happen within the CS.

Either 1. A strong, charismatic leader (probably a general within the military; Bradford is another candidate) would rise up and keep the empire united and establish a new capital and a new regime.

OR

2. Numerous strong and charismatic leaders would rise, causing the CS to splinter.

OR

3. Numerous leaders that are either strong or charismatic arise, causing the CS to splinter.

OR

4. Numerous leaders that are neither strong nor charismatic arise, causing the CS to splinter.

OR

5. An outside party (such as the Republicans) intervenes and establishes their own regime.

If the CS splinters, it may be temporarily while civil war and assassination leave one leader left. Then the empire will be united again. Or it could turn out that none of the factions are strong enough to unseat any of the others and the splintering becomes more or less permanent.

I can see the splintering of the CS taking place more or less along current State lines. I would suspect that Arkansas would stay with Texas while Missouri and Chi-Town would also likely stay together. If the splintering were permanent, I see a strong likelyhood of Iron Heart and Free Quebec joining together.

Certainly every enemy of the CS would be taking advantage of this chaotic time to either ensure they stay splintered or do as much damage as possible to keep them from rising from the tragedy for as long as possible. It would be a golden opportunity for both the FoM and remnants of Tolkeen's forces. The Splugorth could expand along the east coast, opposed only by A.R.C.H.I.E.-3. The Republicans are sure to attempt something, possibly to promote stability.

With the Burbs gone, the Vanguard would be all but extinguished, so no more secret society of mages protecting the CS's interests.

Wether weakened temporarily or completely splintered, there would be a power vacuum that could be filled by numerous forces such as the Pecos Empire and/or the powers of Upper Michigan.

The Xiticx would continue to grow unless some powerful group joined Lazlo in holding them back.

The best chance for CS survival would be a singular, powerful, unopposed leader rising up to take the reins. The less time the CS spends fighting itself, the quicker it can start rebuilding.

[Lenwen]

*Edit*
But as of right now this very moment. The CS has less then 800,000 overall TOTAL troop strength.

Nope they just got a new recruit and that makes 800,001!

OMFG ! HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I cant argue or debat this .. its TOO FUNNY .. hahaha

Good one bro .. ya got me on this 1

[Vrykolas2k]

I wonder if Chi-Town will be described in nice detail in the book of its destruction...?

[Vrykolas2k]

It would be time for Floopicus Maximus to make his move! "Friend, Floopers, Countrymen...lend me your ears...no I didn't mean literally, put those back on Floop Anthony!...now where was I , oh yes lend me your ears... *glares at Floop Anthony*...Prosek has left the building! Let slip the Floopers of War! Long live the Flooper Empire!"

...and an ominous hush falls over the lands as there is a giant *FLOOP* heard round the world...

Floopers United....

...In extinction!