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Rogue_Scientist wrote:I seem to remember some NPCs with gloves that let them do this. I can't remember which ones they were.

I'm just curious if there are any that would be available to PCs, or if simply breaking direct, skin-to-metal contact with the weapon is enough to avoid damage?

The god Thor has his gloves Iarn Greiper which allows him to use rune of opposing alignment (can not use the weapons or boni, just takes no damage).

Rogue_Scientist wrote:I seem to remember some NPCs with gloves that let them do this. I can't remember which ones they were.

I'm just curious if there are any that would be available to PCs, or if simply breaking direct, skin-to-metal contact with the weapon is enough to avoid damage?

Some weapons arent picky about their wielders either. An evil rune weapon doesnt have to do damage or refuse to be wielded by a person of good alignment.

IMO, you have to break aura-to-aura contact. Thus, gloves wouldn't really do it (even the relatively thick gloves of power armor), but you could use tongs or something to move them around.

The vast majority of Rune Weapons will outright refuse to work (as in, use their extra powers) for people of different Alignments......but of those, usually the requirement is that the Character doesn't have to be the exact same Alignment, just in the same general
"moral vicinity" (an Anarchist [selfish] Weapon might feel like working for an Unprincipled [selfish] person, and a Principled Weapon might in some circumstances allow itself to be [temporarily] wielded by, say, an Aberrant character on a temporary quest to battle a greater Evil).

In some very rare cases, a being of great power can FORCE the Rune Weapon in question to work for them (e.g., Algor the Northern Sea God forces a powerful, Diabolic Rune Sword to work for him against its will).

Of those Weapons that actually cause damage to people of the 'wrong' Alignment, that damage is usually implied to be something that the Rune Weapon cannot control. Fortunately, such "touch me and I'll burn you to a crisp if you're not worthy" Weapons appear to be very rare.


BTW, even the artifact Iarn Grieper (literally "Iron Gripper") only allows such Weapons to be held and wielded without damage, NOT allow the wearer of the Gloves to use the Weapon's powers. This strongly implies that the Magic Damage of these Weapons/Special Abilities will bypass attempts to "outsmart" them by doing things like wearing protective covering or using tongs.

Rogue_Scientist wrote:Right. I'm literally talking only about wielding the weapon. Being able to handle it. Not using its powers.

So are Thor's gloves the only things out there?

That's about it....unless, once again, you are a being of sufficient power like the aforementioned Algor.

(I believe that Rurga also has such a Weapon of differing Alignment, but in this case they are both patiently waiting for The Right Person to come along, and they are closer together in alignment than Algor and the Weapon that hates him.)

I have some theories on the Rurgan pantheon and their inter-relationships. It's my guess that Kalba is Rurga's former husband, and Lista's father.

Mark Hall wrote:I have some theories on the Rurgan pantheon and their inter-relationships. It's my guess that Kalba is Rurga's former husband, and Lista's father.

IMO, the means by which he is currently trapped in his current state of need -added to the fact that AFAIK he doesn't mention his supposed killer Rurga, at all, not to mention his supposed daughter -suggests that he ran afoul of forces far more powerful than just an angry goddess's blade.

(Also, Rurga isn't exactly fond of those Evil types -her demonic minions don't exactly count, especially if she made some Od-like sort of deal to spare their lives beforehand in return for their servitude -and nothing in Kalba's write-up says that he has ever been anything but some form or other of Evil.)

cornholioprime wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:I have some theories on the Rurgan pantheon and their inter-relationships. It's my guess that Kalba is Rurga's former husband, and Lista's father.

IMO, the means by which he is currently trapped in his current state of need -added to the fact that AFAIK he doesn't mention his supposed killer Rurga, at all, not to mention his supposed daughter -suggests that he ran afoul of forces far more powerful than just an angry goddess's blade.

(Also, Rurga isn't exactly fond of those Evil types -her demonic minions don't exactly count, especially if she made some Od-like sort of deal to spare their lives beforehand in return for their servitude -and nothing in Kalba's write-up says that he has ever been anything but some form or other of Evil.)

I've got some more arguments for it, at home, but my view of Rurga's pantheon is that they are one, entirely ****-up family. While Kalba doesn't mention that Rurga killed him, I tend to view that more as an abused spouse who talks about falling down the stairs or walking into doors. While his write-up never suggests he was anything but evil, it also doesn't talk much about his life before his death... who he was before he got trapped as a ghost. It's a lot more focused on his death and undeath, than who he was in life.

BARQ wrote:rogue the gods their talking about are from the gods and dragon book for palladium fantasy, its a good source book for use of other godly like powers.

What he said.

That Book is well worth the money just for the Prototypical Deific Powers.

As written up, many Deities in many Games are little more than pumped-up Player Characters with more MDC; with the Godly powers in that Book, Palladium Gods (and Demon/Deevil Lords) are one hell of a force to be reckoned with!!

Player: "Is this badly injured God supposed to be a challenge to us, GM?"


GM: The Deity suddenly arises before the Party; he appears to be completely healed...and above his head, a glowing, energetic sphere of energy has appeared above the god's head. It looks VERY fast and VERY nasty.

For some reason, the god is just standing there, smiling wickedly at the party, as the sphere above his head moves to strike on his behalf....

Algor, the God of the Seas and patron of Frost Giants which share his name, weilds a runesword of the opposite alignment, although he has never shared how he forces the sword to work for him, although the Sword will telepahtically beg anyone within range to steal him away from Algor. So desperate is the blade to escape Algor that it will even allow those of opposite alignment to hold him without harm, at least until he is out of Algors reach.

One could make a quest to find out his secret.

It's Utgard Loki all over again. There is no secret. This is just something Frost Giants can do. Compared to tricking Thor into drinking the ocean and making the tides shift, this is child's play.

Balabanto wrote:It's Utgard Loki all over again. There is no secret. This is just something Frost Giants can do. Compared to tricking Thor into drinking the ocean and making the tides shift, this is child's play.

I'll admit Frost Giants are devilishly clever bastards, but i'm not sure what your implying here. You are saying that it's easy for a Frost Giant to trick a an oppositely-aligned rune weapon into letting him use it, or easy for your character to get the secret from him? Or that the secret is itself easy to learn on your own?

I'll also point out that Algor is ridiculously powerful. Of all the deities... including Thoth "I was the Great Old One in my past life" and Kym-nark-"I am to regular gods what dragons are to humans"-mar... he is the only one to pay half for deific powers.

Home-boy has some juice.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Balabanto wrote:It's Utgard Loki all over again. There is no secret. This is just something Frost Giants can do. Compared to tricking Thor into drinking the ocean and making the tides shift, this is child's play.

I'll admit Frost Giants are devilishly clever bastards, but i'm not sure what your implying here. You are saying that it's easy for a Frost Giant to trick a an oppositely-aligned rune weapon into letting him use it, or easy for your character to get the secret from him? Or that the secret is itself easy to learn on your own?

For some reason, it's easy for Frost Giants to do. So when a player comes and asks a Frost Giant to teach him, the Frost Giant says "Ha! You are funny, Tiny man! Are you a Frost Giant? If not, go and become one!" Then he'll guffaw and challenge him to a buffalo throwing contest or something.

Mark Hall wrote:I'll also point out that Algor is ridiculously powerful. Of all the deities... including Thoth "I was the Great Old One in my past life" and Kym-nark-"I am to regular gods what dragons are to humans"-mar... he is the only one to pay half for deific powers.

Home-boy has some juice.

Ra pays half the cost in PPE, but full for body investments.

Balabanto wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Balabanto wrote:It's Utgard Loki all over again. There is no secret. This is just something Frost Giants can do. Compared to tricking Thor into drinking the ocean and making the tides shift, this is child's play.

I'll admit Frost Giants are devilishly clever bastards, but i'm not sure what your implying here. You are saying that it's easy for a Frost Giant to trick a an oppositely-aligned rune weapon into letting him use it, or easy for your character to get the secret from him? Or that the secret is itself easy to learn on your own?

For some reason, it's easy for Frost Giants to do. So when a player comes and asks a Frost Giant to teach him, the Frost Giant says "Ha! You are funny, Tiny man! Are you a Frost Giant? If not, go and become one!" Then he'll guffaw and challenge him to a buffalo throwing contest or something.

I see. I'll admit I am curious about the mythology here, can you give me exsamples of Frost Giants using rune weapons?

Well, in mystic china, there are what are called Mudra, which are special mystic meditation positions. One of them is "Mudra for the Handling of a Reliquary". It says "...this Mudra is specifically designed not to trigger or activate the object being touched." It costs Chi, and you have to roll under the meditation skill to not activate it (unless you actually happen to be handling a reliquary), but it seems to me that the entire purpose of that power is to actually let you handle things without triggering or activating things like that.

Of course, if your character doesn't have access to Mudra (and there aren't many ways to get access to them), that isn't such a big help.

Alter Aura might fool the weapon for a little while but not long.

There is at least one good rune Katana Allows it's cyber knight owner to keep using it hoping she will atone for her evil nature and return to good. However it had been hers for a while before she turned to evil.

Metathiax wrote:Alter Aura might fool the weapon for a little while but not long.

There is at least one good rune Katana Allows it's cyber knight owner to keep using it hoping she will atone for her evil nature and return to good. However it had been hers for a while before she turned to evil.

Rune Katana's don't have the ability to smite users or deny them. They can choose to not give them the save throw bonus, but there is nothing they can do to stop someone from swinging them at someone.

Nekira Sudacne wrote: I'll admit Frost Giants are devilishly clever bastards

Mark Hall wrote:Home-boy has some juice.

Very VERY funny ..

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Balabanto wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Balabanto wrote:It's Utgard Loki all over again. There is no secret. This is just something Frost Giants can do. Compared to tricking Thor into drinking the ocean and making the tides shift, this is child's play.

I'll admit Frost Giants are devilishly clever bastards, but i'm not sure what your implying here. You are saying that it's easy for a Frost Giant to trick a an oppositely-aligned rune weapon into letting him use it, or easy for your character to get the secret from him? Or that the secret is itself easy to learn on your own?

For some reason, it's easy for Frost Giants to do. So when a player comes and asks a Frost Giant to teach him, the Frost Giant says "Ha! You are funny, Tiny man! Are you a Frost Giant? If not, go and become one!" Then he'll guffaw and challenge him to a buffalo throwing contest or something.

I see. I'll admit I am curious about the mythology here, can you give me exsamples of Frost Giants using rune weapons?

When Thor visits Utgard Loki, Utgard Loki, the king of the Frost Giants, challenges him to some contests. He has Thor lift a table, but the table is really the Midgard Serpent, and surrounds the entire world. He has Thor drink from his drinking horn, but the horn is linked to the ocean. When Thor fails the tests, Utgard Loki tells him that he did better than he realized. This is why the tides ebb and flow. So I don't really view fooling a rune weapon as a particularly difficult task if the King of the Frost Giants can make someone believe the Midgard Serpent is a table and trick Thor into drinking the ocean on that scale. If you're the GOD of the Frost Giants, this should be like taking candy from a baby.

Balabanto wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Balabanto wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Balabanto wrote:It's Utgard Loki all over again. There is no secret. This is just something Frost Giants can do. Compared to tricking Thor into drinking the ocean and making the tides shift, this is child's play.

I'll admit Frost Giants are devilishly clever bastards, but i'm not sure what your implying here. You are saying that it's easy for a Frost Giant to trick a an oppositely-aligned rune weapon into letting him use it, or easy for your character to get the secret from him? Or that the secret is itself easy to learn on your own?

For some reason, it's easy for Frost Giants to do. So when a player comes and asks a Frost Giant to teach him, the Frost Giant says "Ha! You are funny, Tiny man! Are you a Frost Giant? If not, go and become one!" Then he'll guffaw and challenge him to a buffalo throwing contest or something.

I see. I'll admit I am curious about the mythology here, can you give me exsamples of Frost Giants using rune weapons?

When Thor visits Utgard Loki, Utgard Loki, the king of the Frost Giants, challenges him to some contests. He has Thor lift a table, but the table is really the Midgard Serpent, and surrounds the entire world. He has Thor drink from his drinking horn, but the horn is linked to the ocean. When Thor fails the tests, Utgard Loki tells him that he did better than he realized. This is why the tides ebb and flow. So I don't really view fooling a rune weapon as a particularly difficult task if the King of the Frost Giants can make someone believe the Midgard Serpent is a table and trick Thor into drinking the ocean on that scale. If you're the GOD of the Frost Giants, this should be like taking candy from a baby.

I'm forced to conceed point