Christian Minister

[Crucible]

Anyone ever tried to create a minister's OCC? Have I looked over something or is it just not done?

[The Galactus Kid]

There is the preacher O.C.C. and the Catholic Priest O.C.C. Both are ok classes, but Palladium caught a bunch of flak for creating them to begin with.

[Balabanto]

I love those OCCs. They're easily modified for other religions. Hey, the Rifts Priest you can do almost anything with. Hey, maybe that'll be my next character. Rabbi Skavinksy the Rifts Priest.

[Crucible]

There is the preacher O.C.C. and the Catholic Priest O.C.C. Both are ok classes, but Palladium caught a bunch of flak for creating them to begin with.

Thats not right. As an ordained minister I see it as a good thing to remind folks that even in a dark, alien, and evil setting there is still faith in God in a world like this.

I think theOCC is a good thing. You say Preacher OCC? Thats the New West right?

[Misfit KotLD]

There is the preacher O.C.C. and the Catholic Priest O.C.C. Both are ok classes, but Palladium caught a bunch of flak for creating them to begin with.

Thats not right. As an ordained minister I see it as a good thing to remind folks that even in a dark, alien, and evil setting there is still faith in God in a world like this.

I think theOCC is a good thing. You say Preacher OCC? Thats the New West right?

As a scholar, I see no reason to count that theology/mythology any more or less than any other.

[The Galactus Kid]

I agree. I went to seminary and am very active in my Church and community. I truly do think that there is a place in the game world for those classes. I am even working on a short story (either for publication in the rifter or elsewhere) that involves a Preacher O.C.C. and his struggles of faith especially in light of witnessing priests of other gods and alien intelligences having awesome magical powers while he does not.

Many people just don’t like when you post your idea of their religion in black and white and many people are easily offended. Its just the nature of the beast. The biggest problem I have with either class is the fact that the Catholic Priest O.C.C. in Warlords of Russia…should probably be a Russian Orthodox Priest instead.

[Misfit KotLD]

I agree. I went to seminary and am very active in my Church and community. I truly do think that there is a place in the game world for those classes. I am even working on a short story (either for publication in the rifter or elsewhere) that involves a Preacher O.C.C. and his struggles of faith especially in light of witnessing priests of other gods and alien intelligences having awesome magical powers while he does not.

Many people just don’t like when you post your idea of their religion in black and white and many people are easily offended. Its just the nature of the beast. The biggest problem I have with either class is the fact that the Catholic Priest O.C.C. in Warlords of Russia…should probably be a Russian Orthodox Priest instead.

GK, I agree from a historian's perspective. The Catholic Church was in the Western Empire, not Byzantium. I'd probably also allow those priests access to magic, aren't the priests and prophets in biblical text capable of performing miracles? Just make your Priest of Light worship El Shaddai, Yahweh, El, or whichever other of his titles you like best.

[The Galactus Kid]

I agree. I went to seminary and am very active in my Church and community. I truly do think that there is a place in the game world for those classes. I am even working on a short story (either for publication in the rifter or elsewhere) that involves a Preacher O.C.C. and his struggles of faith especially in light of witnessing priests of other gods and alien intelligences having awesome magical powers while he does not.

Many people just don’t like when you post your idea of their religion in black and white and many people are easily offended. Its just the nature of the beast. The biggest problem I have with either class is the fact that the Catholic Priest O.C.C. in Warlords of Russia…should probably be a Russian Orthodox Priest instead.

GK, I agree from a historian's perspective. The Catholic Church was in the Western Empire, not Byzantium. I'd probably also allow those priests access to magic, aren't the priests and prophets in biblical text capable of performing miracles? Just make your Priest of Light worship El Shaddai, Yahweh, El, or whichever other of his titles you like best.

I personally like them better without any of the deific granted powers.

[Crucible]

I agree. I went to seminary and am very active in my Church and community. I truly do think that there is a place in the game world for those classes. I am even working on a short story (either for publication in the rifter or elsewhere) that involves a Preacher O.C.C. and his struggles of faith especially in light of witnessing priests of other gods and alien intelligences having awesome magical powers while he does not.

Many people just don’t like when you post your idea of their religion in black and white and many people are easily offended. Its just the nature of the beast. The biggest problem I have with either class is the fact that the Catholic Priest O.C.C. in Warlords of Russia…should probably be a Russian Orthodox Priest instead.

GK, I agree from a historian's perspective. The Catholic Church was in the Western Empire, not Byzantium. I'd probably also allow those priests access to magic, aren't the priests and prophets in biblical text capable of performing miracles? Just make your Priest of Light worship El Shaddai, Yahweh, El, or whichever other of his titles you like best.

I personally like them better without any of the deific granted powers.

That makes two of us. I like them as normal guys.

Why was palladium singled out. Two to three other companies use them a whole lot and freely.

[Misfit KotLD]

I agree. I went to seminary and am very active in my Church and community. I truly do think that there is a place in the game world for those classes. I am even working on a short story (either for publication in the rifter or elsewhere) that involves a Preacher O.C.C. and his struggles of faith especially in light of witnessing priests of other gods and alien intelligences having awesome magical powers while he does not.

Many people just don’t like when you post your idea of their religion in black and white and many people are easily offended. Its just the nature of the beast. The biggest problem I have with either class is the fact that the Catholic Priest O.C.C. in Warlords of Russia…should probably be a Russian Orthodox Priest instead.

GK, I agree from a historian's perspective. The Catholic Church was in the Western Empire, not Byzantium. I'd probably also allow those priests access to magic, aren't the priests and prophets in biblical text capable of performing miracles? Just make your Priest of Light worship El Shaddai, Yahweh, El, or whichever other of his titles you like best.

I personally like them better without any of the deific granted powers.

Did not Jesus tell his apostles to cast out demons and the like in his name? I get the preference for spell-less priests, I just don't see where they come from if every other faith has magic.

[Crucible]

I agree. I went to seminary and am very active in my Church and community. I truly do think that there is a place in the game world for those classes. I am even working on a short story (either for publication in the rifter or elsewhere) that involves a Preacher O.C.C. and his struggles of faith especially in light of witnessing priests of other gods and alien intelligences having awesome magical powers while he does not.

Many people just don’t like when you post your idea of their religion in black and white and many people are easily offended. Its just the nature of the beast. The biggest problem I have with either class is the fact that the Catholic Priest O.C.C. in Warlords of Russia…should probably be a Russian Orthodox Priest instead.

GK, I agree from a historian's perspective. The Catholic Church was in the Western Empire, not Byzantium. I'd probably also allow those priests access to magic, aren't the priests and prophets in biblical text capable of performing miracles? Just make your Priest of Light worship El Shaddai, Yahweh, El, or whichever other of his titles you like best.

I personally like them better without any of the deific granted powers.

Did not Jesus tell his apostles to cast out demons and the like in his name? I get the preference for spell-less priests, I just don't see where they come from if every other faith has magic.

You definately would not use magic based upon the Judeo/Christian God not liking it. Jesus was God incarnate and the other Prophets used miracles but not on a whim. If nothing else I'd say Psionics.

[drewkitty ~..~]

To create a Christen Preacher char you would need public speaking and Theology, and apologetics.
To play the char correctly you would at very least read the new testament and implement the teaching there to your char. In other words, ignore the "public perception" of what christens are and find out what they are really to be.

A part of the teachings of the bible is that the leader of a congregation is to be a married man with only one wife, who's children are following the teachings of the church. Supporting leaders are also to be married, men or women, with children are following the teachings of the church. That Christ is a part of God, not just some other god.

There are also cults out there that proclaim they are christens, such as JW's & Smithites, but follow teachings other then those of christ.

Casting out demons in Christ's name is different then granted powers. Such actions are based in the person's Faith. This is touched on in the Priest OCC in Rifter 1.

[Misfit KotLD]

I agree. I went to seminary and am very active in my Church and community. I truly do think that there is a place in the game world for those classes. I am even working on a short story (either for publication in the rifter or elsewhere) that involves a Preacher O.C.C. and his struggles of faith especially in light of witnessing priests of other gods and alien intelligences having awesome magical powers while he does not.

Many people just don’t like when you post your idea of their religion in black and white and many people are easily offended. Its just the nature of the beast. The biggest problem I have with either class is the fact that the Catholic Priest O.C.C. in Warlords of Russia…should probably be a Russian Orthodox Priest instead.

GK, I agree from a historian's perspective. The Catholic Church was in the Western Empire, not Byzantium. I'd probably also allow those priests access to magic, aren't the priests and prophets in biblical text capable of performing miracles? Just make your Priest of Light worship El Shaddai, Yahweh, El, or whichever other of his titles you like best.

I personally like them better without any of the deific granted powers.

Did not Jesus tell his apostles to cast out demons and the like in his name? I get the preference for spell-less priests, I just don't see where they come from if every other faith has magic.

You definately would not use magic based upon the Judeo/Christian God not liking it. Jesus was God incarnate and the other Prophets used miracles but not on a whim. If nothing else I'd say Psionics.

It was essentially "my chosen can have magic, but nobody else can." So if the priest learned from another priest, he's ok. If he learned from somewhere else, he's not. Which is ok because priests cast via their deity, not via personal mastery and knowledge.

[drewkitty ~..~]

It was essentially "my chosen can have magic, but nobody else can." So if the priest learned from another priest, he's ok. If he learned from somewhere else, he's not. Which is ok because priests cast via their deity, not via personal mastery and knowledge.

Except that Christens are forbidden from practicing magic of any type.

No, God acting on one of his believer's request is not magic.

[The Galactus Kid]

If anything, I would have to say that their power would work like a pact or even how warlocks get their powers. They agree to be a servant og Yaweh and in return are granted particualr powers but they have no real understandin of Magic, per se, but more of a real understanding of their relationship with the divine. Still, I prefer the Judeo-christian priests to not have powers unless it comes as a role-playing opportunity from the GM. Thats just preference.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The whole body of the Church is made up of priests.
Yes, every believer is a priest.
No, not all who profess to be Christens, are so.
Yes, all Christen Priests can, if secure in their faith, call for miracles["if you have even the faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains"*written from memory so some of the words might be incorrect*], and administer Sacraments [communion, baptism,...].
Ministers tend to the body of the church to keep it health and walking the correct path.

Still, I prefer the Judeo-christian priests to not have powers unless it comes as a role-playing opportunity from the GM. Thats just preference.

RPing is Good. but then to quote the lord's prayer.. "not my will be done, but your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven".
God's will is both "Just, and Loving"
If sin is done, there is a price, but the price has been paid, if the person accepts the one who paid.

[The Galactus Kid]

The whole body of the Church is made up of priests.
Yes, every believer is a priest.
No, not all who profess to be Christens, are so.
Yes, all Christen Priests can, if secure in their faith, call for miracles["if you have even the faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains"*written from memory so some of the words might be incorrect*], and administer Sacraments [communion, baptism,...].
Ministers tend to the body of the church to keep it health and walking the correct path.

Still, I prefer the Judeo-christian priests to not have powers unless it comes as a role-playing opportunity from the GM. Thats just preference.

RPing is Good. but then to quote the lord's prayer.. "not my will be done, but your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven".
God's will is both "Just, and Loving"
If sin is done, there is a price, but the price has been paid, if the person accepts the one who paid.

Right. I agree. I still don't see how that relays magical powers, especially within the realms of the game terms. Communion and Baptism are not "magic" even in the strictest theological sense, and miracles come from the divine, which is actually my point. I personally think that the classes are much better written and understood classes without magic and that through role playing if certain "magical" or "miraculous" things happen around the character, I think thats a cool element to be left up to the GM and the player.

[Danger]

There is the preacher O.C.C. and the Catholic Priest O.C.C. Both are ok classes, but Palladium caught a bunch of flak for creating them to begin with.

Thats not right. As an ordained minister I see it as a good thing to remind folks that even in a dark, alien, and evil setting there is still faith in God in a world like this.

I think theOCC is a good thing. You say Preacher OCC? Thats the New West right?

Yes it is.

[taalismn]

Interesting...some of the best roleplayers I've played with were devout, and went on to positions in their respective Churches...
And, yes, while there would be quite some re-evaluation of the tenants of faith after the Coming of the Rifts, if anything I would see those who saw the event as a testing of their faith growing the stronger for it, potential power-ups from PPE not withstanding...

[Balabanto]

It was essentially "my chosen can have magic, but nobody else can." So if the priest learned from another priest, he's ok. If he learned from somewhere else, he's not. Which is ok because priests cast via their deity, not via personal mastery and knowledge.

Except that Christens are forbidden from practicing magic of any type.

No, God acting on one of his believer's request is not magic.

You are not correct. Christians who won the cultural battles are prohibited from practicing magic of any type. Read the Gnostic Texts, or the texts of the Albigensians or many of the other offshoots of Christianity that were burned as heretics, usually over land squabbles or the like. Read the apocryphal texts that WEREN'T included in the Bible, a work which, by the way, was designed by committee. And we all know what happens when ANYTHING gets sent to a committee to decide what happens to it.

[Steeler49er]

APOCRYPHAL TEXT ASIDE
Yuppers... Magic is a No No.
In Christianity there is, in fact NO magic! God never created it, nor said he did (Even in the gnostic texts) for that would imply w/o any doubt that God either Needed a crutch for the creation Of Creation, OR it ment that he was Not the only power in the universe. Any Apocryphal texts saying otherwise would be Hypocryphal text (word play)
Magic is considered by Judeo Christains to be nothing more than stage magic/slight of hand, and as such I'd never let a player play a Preacher O.C.C. and use the stuff. All powers [in line With the G-man] come from God or an Intersecor/Angles Direct intervention... In short, he or They comin on down to lay down some Major whoop @$$ on ye old demonic(fallen) ex-angles.


Since I don't allow players access to 'God' in the game, as He's W-Ha-Hay to powerful, and I actually have my time line stating that Our Earth came 150 Trillion years before the Palladium Mega-Verse was formed (See below for description.) He's not even an issue. The end times came and went Long before the PBM [Palladium Books Megaverse] and God doesn't play any part in the Actions of the PBM anymore, he just leaves it to it's own devices... This way everyone of every faith is Happy who plays my games since everyones religion gets it's saving throw vs. arguement and secondly, no-one can playing a "Man of God" can call down the God smack on other players... Everyones happy with this, Well everyone but vocal anti-christian/anti-any religionists in our groups, butcha Can't please everyone...

(Gosh, how they could have anything against Buddists is Beyond me... But whatever, free country and each tot their own).
Then again, what would you be doing playing an atheist ina Game where Magic and religion Very real and are daily events I'd never know, that's a Major case of denial and your Free to play a Nega-Mage/Psychic if you choose (They're the Only guys other than Christian Preachers OCC and the MetalHead MCC that I allow to play Negas as , Only Atheists and Christians don't believe in magic! And the ONLY reason Metal Heads can be Negas is Cuz of the AWSOME WILL POWER of METAL!!! Rockers can't be Negas cuz, well... God gave Rock'n'Roll to you

You CAN play a Not so literal version of a Christian, ones that have atleast Some magic in them... Like a Catholic, A Mormon, A Jehovah's Witness, a Christian Evolutionist/intel design, a New Ager Christian, a Voodoo Christian, or just about any combo of christian fusion religions... But Never strait Judeo Christians or Athiests... Although Asimovian-Athiests may learn magic if they realize that it's just Super science, and Christains that REALIZE that None of the Bibles endtime profs came true as they should, may chose to Drop christianity and follow whatever path they choose...
But Preacher OCC's follow the strick of the "B.I.B.L.E. (Basic-Instructions-Before-Leaving-Earth)"-Gary Busey


A PALLADIUM TIME LINE-140 Trillion yeras ago.
In the months Prior to the battle at Megiddo, where all of the armies of Earth would fight their last battle, 12 humans who had come to believe in Yeshua (as is it was getting hard for them not to at that point) asked God to be spared their deaths... However, they loved earth too much and felt that Something of the Human races should be biologically spared the impending global disaster so as to keep the race from complete and utter extintion. They were Historians, Scientists and Environmentalists, and Immortalist TransHumanists and felt that it should be their eternal duties to "preserve the Bio-template", and History of Man kind for all times. But God saw into there hearts that they were simply afraid to let go of the Flesh... So he granted them their wish under the understanding that "For your willingness to accept my Sons sacifice for all mankind of whom I love, You will Never die of the Flesh which is Now as Immortal, therefore you can never enter the gates to the Kingdom". They gulped knowing and Not knowing what this ment.

The 12 immortal remanents of humanity that had been Cursed/Gifted with Eternally Mortal bodies were stuck in the Mortal plane for the Next 140trillion years and became it's master after God' childeren left that Reality never to return... As such, at the end of the universe, they the Externals (So named because their flesh would not age) tried to create One last perfect race of beings in hopes that God would grant this immortal Last Race eternal life after death so that when they Should die of unnatural causes, they would live on with him. Really it was more like an attempt to get into Gods good graces And the 12 had come to see their Own limitations in a Dying universe as frightful. The 12 Externals pulled together from the great expance of our dying universe, the last remanents of Star dust and Cosmic gas not yet swollowed up by the innumerable Black Holes and from it created a Large galaxie 500,000 LY in size for the Last Race to explore. They helped Build and guide the Last Races civilizations past wars and hatered. They taught them love, compassion, Acceptance and or Tolerance of All God creatures, they were Beautyful and wise being, devoid of flesh as we know it today, and yet... whenever the Last Race would ask the Externals "What of your origins" the Exalted would ask them to refrain from such questions, for in secret and in shame they did Fear that to know of the Earths history and greatness, would also mean to know of Earths final days and the evils that mankind had reached! That in it's belief that it had perfected itself, it fell prey to pride, which lead to ignorance of any potential faults it could have, which lead to those faults turning the False Peace which they'd celebrated day and night over, into Arrogance! All they'd acheived with the help of a Deceiver turned into hatered and War, which lead them to lose Everything. Famine/Pestilance and the environmental destruction caused by the same people who, in just years prior had praised their love environmental, had been destroyed and their darkened hearts no longer cared nor saw that they'd become that which they hated most... And still they celebrated.
This was the shame of the Externals and they would have No part in their past sins Tainting this, a perfect people.


After Hundereds of years the Externals Left the Last Ones and headed of to their own each personal galaxies which were preserves of the great and hidden truths of the universe which had come Before, and the Last Race did go forth into their Galaxy and spread Life to All of the worlds of their space, but they still wished to Know...

Two Thousand years had past since their creation, and from time to time, the Externals would make their great trek across the black void of empty space to look in on, and to help further guide, only to leave after a time, returning back into the abyss, returning to their hidden realms. The First Ones had, by this time, explored All there was to explore in their Galaxy and asked "What else is there for us to do? What else can we create? What and where else is there for us to Explore", and so they looked in wards at creation itself and said "Let us Too, be creators of life"! They, in fact choose Two differant directions, One Outwards and one inwards. They Sent out in All directions from their Galaxy, Ships... Thousands of ships, each with the goal of finding Something of their origins, and out into the darkness they did venture. The rest went to work on their Greatest creation, a Machine that could Create worlds, galaxies and, indeed, Whole Realitys.

100 years later they almost finished when, out of the dark, one of their ships returned... With something in tow!
It was a Black tower attatched to an ancient asteriod, it measured nearly One mile in height and absorbed All light. It was made of a matterial that None knew of. The Last One told of the wonders which he found in it and, of how it was launched from the Home World of the Externals by their worlds Leader, just before the world was detroyed. This Black Tower was a library of All of they're races, and indeed of ALL races that had ever come from theat point on... It recorded the progress of the unviverse up untill it died. He said that he found it far at the center of the Old Universe and, "That it had Many things to teach us...


More to come later

[Library Ogre]

It was essentially "my chosen can have magic, but nobody else can." So if the priest learned from another priest, he's ok. If he learned from somewhere else, he's not. Which is ok because priests cast via their deity, not via personal mastery and knowledge.

Except that Christens are forbidden from practicing magic of any type.

No, God acting on one of his believer's request is not magic.

Actually, asking a deity or other religious entity to intercede on one's behalf forms the basis of a lot of historical magical traditions; Qabbalists, for example, when creating a golem, calls upon G-d to help him do it.

Because of the biblical prohibition on magic (while the word interpreted as "witch" is generally well-known to mean "poisoner", the word for necromancer, to my knowledge, specifically refers to those who use magic to contact the spirits of the dead), Christians tend to downplay that magic and prayer-for-effect are fairly synonymous in magical terms.

Personally, I prefer my take on YHWH. I run him as an alien Intelligence. Saints and prophets are similar in effect to witches. Certain deific manifestations work as essence fragments of the alien intelligence, explaining how Jeshua is simultaneously both YHWH and separate, or how Mary might be born without original sin.

[Crucible]

APOCRYPHAL TEXT ASIDE
Yuppers... Magic is a No No.
In Christianity there is, in fact NO magic! God never created it, nor said he did (Even in the gnostic texts) for that would imply w/o any doubt that God either Needed a crutch for the creation Of Creation, OR it ment that he was Not the only power in the universe. Any Apocryphal texts saying otherwise would be Hypocryphal text (word play)
Magic is considered by Judeo Christains to be nothing more than stage magic/slight of hand, and as such I'd never let a player play a Preacher O.C.C. and use the stuff. All powers [in line With the G-man] come from God or an Intersecor/Angles Direct intervention... In short, he or They comin on down to lay down some Major whoop @$$ on ye old demonic(fallen) ex-angles.


Since I don't allow players access to 'God' in the game, as He's W-Ha-Hay to powerful, and I actually have my time line stating that Our Earth came 150 Trillion years before the Palladium Mega-Verse was formed (See below for description.) He's not even an issue. The end times came and went Long before the PBM [Palladium Books Megaverse] and God doesn't play any part in the Actions of the PBM anymore, he just leaves it to it's own devices... This way everyone of every faith is Happy who plays my games since everyones religion gets it's saving throw vs. arguement and secondly, no-one can playing a "Man of God" can call down the God smack on other players... Everyones happy with this, Well everyone but vocal anti-christian/anti-any religionists in our groups, butcha Can't please everyone...

(Gosh, how they could have anything against Buddists is Beyond me... But whatever, free country and each tot their own).
Then again, what would you be doing playing an atheist ina Game where Magic and religion Very real and are daily events I'd never know, that's a Major case of denial and your Free to play a Nega-Mage/Psychic if you choose (They're the Only guys other than Christian Preachers OCC and the MetalHead MCC that I allow to play Negas as , Only Atheists and Christians don't believe in magic! And the ONLY reason Metal Heads can be Negas is Cuz of the AWSOME WILL POWER of METAL!!! Rockers can't be Negas cuz, well... God gave Rock'n'Roll to you

You CAN play a Not so literal version of a Christian, ones that have atleast Some magic in them... Like a Catholic, A Mormon, A Jehovah's Witness, a Christian Evolutionist/intel design, a New Ager Christian, a Voodoo Christian, or just about any combo of christian fusion religions... But Never strait Judeo Christians or Athiests... Although Asimovian-Athiests may learn magic if they realize that it's just Super science, and Christains that REALIZE that None of the Bibles endtime profs came true as they should, may chose to Drop christianity and follow whatever path they choose...
But Preacher OCC's follow the strick of the "B.I.B.L.E. (Basic-Instructions-Before-Leaving-Earth)"-Gary Busey


A PALLADIUM TIME LINE-140 Trillion yeras ago.
In the months Prior to the battle at Megiddo, where all of the armies of Earth would fight their last battle, 12 humans who had come to believe in Yeshua (as is it was getting hard for them not to at that point) asked God to be spared their deaths... However, they loved earth too much and felt that Something of the Human races should be biologically spared the impending global disaster so as to keep the race from complete and utter extintion. They were Historians, Scientists and Environmentalists, and Immortalist TransHumanists and felt that it should be their eternal duties to "preserve the Bio-template", and History of Man kind for all times. But God saw into there hearts that they were simply afraid to let go of the Flesh... So he granted them their wish under the understanding that "For your willingness to accept my Sons sacifice for all mankind of whom I love, You will Never die of the Flesh which is Now as Immortal, therefore you can never enter the gates to the Kingdom". They gulped knowing and Not knowing what this ment.

The 12 immortal remanents of humanity that had been Cursed/Gifted with Eternally Mortal bodies were stuck in the Mortal plane for the Next 140trillion years and became it's master after God' childeren left that Reality never to return... As such, at the end of the universe, they the Externals (So named because their flesh would not age) tried to create One last perfect race of beings in hopes that God would grant this immortal Last Race eternal life after death so that when they Should die of unnatural causes, they would live on with him. Really it was more like an attempt to get into Gods good graces And the 12 had come to see their Own limitations in a Dying universe as frightful. The 12 Externals pulled together from the great expance of our dying universe, the last remanents of Star dust and Cosmic gas not yet swollowed up by the innumerable Black Holes and from it created a Large galaxie 500,000 LY in size for the Last Race to explore. They helped Build and guide the Last Races civilizations past wars and hatered. They taught them love, compassion, Acceptance and or Tolerance of All God creatures, they were Beautyful and wise being, devoid of flesh as we know it today, and yet... whenever the Last Race would ask the Externals "What of your origins" the Exalted would ask them to refrain from such questions, for in secret and in shame they did Fear that to know of the Earths history and greatness, would also mean to know of Earths final days and the evils that mankind had reached! That in it's belief that it had perfected itself, it fell prey to pride, which lead to ignorance of any potential faults it could have, which lead to those faults turning the False Peace which they'd celebrated day and night over, into Arrogance! All they'd acheived with the help of a Deceiver turned into hatered and War, which lead them to lose Everything. Famine/Pestilance and the environmental destruction caused by the same people who, in just years prior had praised their love environmental, had been destroyed and their darkened hearts no longer cared nor saw that they'd become that which they hated most... And still they celebrated.
This was the shame of the Externals and they would have No part in their past sins Tainting this, a perfect people.


After Hundereds of years the Externals Left the Last Ones and headed of to their own each personal galaxies which were preserves of the great and hidden truths of the universe which had come Before, and the Last Race did go forth into their Galaxy and spread Life to All of the worlds of their space, but they still wished to Know...

Two Thousand years had past since their creation, and from time to time, the Externals would make their great trek across the black void of empty space to look in on, and to help further guide, only to leave after a time, returning back into the abyss, returning to their hidden realms. The First Ones had, by this time, explored All there was to explore in their Galaxy and asked "What else is there for us to do? What else can we create? What and where else is there for us to Explore", and so they looked in wards at creation itself and said "Let us Too, be creators of life"! They, in fact choose Two differant directions, One Outwards and one inwards. They Sent out in All directions from their Galaxy, Ships... Thousands of ships, each with the goal of finding Something of their origins, and out into the darkness they did venture. The rest went to work on their Greatest creation, a Machine that could Create worlds, galaxies and, indeed, Whole Realitys.

100 years later they almost finished when, out of the dark, one of their ships returned... With something in tow!
It was a Black tower attatched to an ancient asteriod, it measured nearly One mile in height and absorbed All light. It was made of a matterial that None knew of. The Last One told of the wonders which he found in it and, of how it was launched from the Home World of the Externals by their worlds Leader, just before the world was detroyed. This Black Tower was a library of All of they're races, and indeed of ALL races that had ever come from theat point on... It recorded the progress of the unviverse up untill it died. He said that he found it far at the center of the Old Universe and, "That it had Many things to teach us...


More to come later

Palladium gamers rock hard!!!

[Steeler49er]

Wow... Danka




___________________________________________________________________________________________________________RATTZ
"you like me! you really like me!!"
☻

[Rallan]

I'd love to see them do christian priests the same way they've done other real world religions, where they get magical Jesus powers and their own spell list.

Of course, that would be hideously offensive because it's a religious practiced by lots of people the writers actually know, so we'll limit that to druids and African tribal religions and voodoo and the most famous gods of the Hindu faith

[Crucible]

Just made a chart, these OCC's have a greater chance of Minor and Major Psionics. They get a ISP and PPE boost. NO MAGIC...I also added prayer which boosts latent PPE and ISP in individuals, grants bonuses, can bless water, oil, and to a lesser extent items.

Most abilities (save for the miracles of Jesus, the Prophets, and Disciples) can be found on pg 164 of Rifts Ultimate Edition. I also said that through faith PPE can increase the affects or sub as ISP.

[Steeler49er]

"its name is unknown to history and uttered by only a few in all time and space... The Destroyer, the one who ended it all for everyone left, but from its horrid and unspeakable actions, we are alive today.
PALLADIUM APOCRYPHA part 2


The Last ones in those days had conquered all of the known galaxy granted to them by the Exalted Externals millennia earlier, and now came the age of Creation, the age when All would come together in spirit and in form so as to bring forth life into a dead universe, now was the time when the "Last Race" to inhabit our universe at the end of all time would, so their respect for those who had created them, and for the Creator god whom had created Their creators, for the Last Race had done what the Externals before them had not been able to do... They had found the Ninth Dimension!

It was years after IT's return from the void of nothingness that Some started to suspect aberrations in It's thinking and actions, but it would be Far to late to stop the madness from ending the gift of creation, for It had become something quite different from anything they'd known. He (For simplicities sake) had arrived with the 'Black Tower' in tow, it was made of a material he called "Ebonitrium" and it was Not matter in the conventional sense of the word. It grew and fed off of ambient energies, other than what stands for heat which seemed exempt, and it was Old! His stories was that, after just Twenty years in space and traveling at speeds beyond normal measure, he started to see Light, a bright light Quintillions of Tachyon years across! He followed it as it cooled down at an unreasonable speed, it was, as he described, "The formation of the Old universe". He had to slow down to sub-light speed Just to grasp what was happening, it was creation from the beginning to the end, and he was the first of his kind, the only of his kind to bare witness to this event. Convinced that if he traveled further he, in time, would find the Mystical world of the exalted ones, the Externals.

He spent 2 more months (Earth time approximate) and followed the dead light through it's motion through time and space, like any old movie of events that took place ages beyond ago... He was Very surprised to see how fast it had all begun, the universes formation in time space seemed to take no time at all, like as though the cataclysm of matter and energy worked in fast forwards but, as the universe cooled, time seemed to match that of Surrounding time space. What we call Dark matter/energy today had not yet filled the universe and gravitic space reactions were reacting at mind boggling (even for his race) speeds Far faster than his kind had assumed possible, he was beyond being in awe. Once the universe had cooled to a point where he could observe real time events, it was as though races took millennia to come into being, he waited for what seemed like an eternity for some sign of life that could wake through the stars... He moved forwards through the memories of the forgotten place and found many events that would show that life had both existed here, and flourished. Impatient he moved forwards to see more but as he passed through age after amazing age of countless races, he began to wonder what was ahead, you see in time he realized that trillions of years had passed and there seemed No end in sight!

The space and now time traveler, pushed ahead many eons and still as he drew closer to the end of the story felt that he may be witness to something horrid, from beginning to end in a few short months he had seen a glimpse of creation and it's death, and he knew by now that This was the Place that the Externals had never told his people of... But why, and how could Anything survive this long? He needed to know now, it was no longer the desires of an intrepid explorer but rather a Sickening feeling of dread that filled his chest. He would push on until he found Nothing at the place which would have been the location of the big bang from tens, if not hundreds of trillions of years earlier... And nothing was what awaited him there.

For years he wandered looking for something anything while back home his people grew closer to their goal of creating a device capable of making Something from seemingly Nothing. Each creation lead to a better and smaller one, finally as if by accident they found what they would Dub, the Nth (Ninth Dimension), a place where All time and space Should have been, showed that Time and space were Both rather more disconnected than they'd thought and what was there in this place was Everything! As things eroded from the effects of entropy, they found that the energies would pass into Other states and dimensions of existence and Finally come to rest Here, in this spot-Infinite space and reality and, energy! All the energy that ever was and ever could be was here, in this place, and it measured into Infinity seemingly without end... Well more than what was needed to build Centillions of universes. From this they could create to their heart content, and as long as they could create an effective means of micro-managing the reactions on the plank scale and beyond (If at all possible) they'd be able to create a planet in seconds, a galaxy in a week and perhaps even more.

In the depths of despair the one we call "Him" had finally found something that, in and through the darkness, beckoned him to come to it. He found a 'Black Tower' like object floating in the starless, stygian atramentarious and did investigate it. The Ancient and easily recognizable writing was in External, it Was what he'd been looking for all these many years and indeed his whole life. Upon seeing a door he did go inside of this city sized monolithic structure and found that it stretched forever but after a short time of exploration he found that something new he was coming, the thing that had invited him, and it and he would have many conversation over many months. He would come to know that the Tower was created to be a Lasting testament to the Leader of earth and that he had etched his memories and thoughts into the Towers mainframe, it was an exact duplicate of him. The tower was, according to the AI, created by humanity so that their history would never be lost and that it's job was intended to be one of being a galactic library. What it would say next would shock the Last One to the core of his being, that the Creator was Nothing of the sort, that the creator had destroyed the earth because he had feared mankind’s ascension and killed them all for it, later to enslave man... And it had 140Trillion years to make sure it's points were indisputable.

For the Many years that it would take for Him and the Tower to make it back to the Galaxy of the Last People, the AI did teach Him Many great and horrible things that would, in time, twist his mind. He told the AI of what his people were creating and together they would hatch a plan to recreate the universe into a New.

When he returned his people hailed him as their First and foremost of heroes and he was granted the rights to choose any position he wished for, and he of course would choose to work on The Creation Project. Over many months he would work on the Grand Creation Machine and came to know its AI, he would provide much help as well in deciphering the Tower for others all the while knowing that it could already speak. He would also begin to bring other Last Ones into the fold, teaching them of the wonders of the Tower and they too would go insane.

Near the end some of the Last began to question His works and the towers "Truths", they realized all too late that what he planned was Not good but pure evil (a word they now understood). On the day that the Great Machine of Creation was to come on line, the Evil one made his move with his cult in tow, the Last Ones never even knew what had happened. He got to the control room and began to make the machine do terrible things to his people, all the while the Tower watched, laughing at what it had accomplished... The Mislead cultists of 'Him' realized only too late what he intended to do, they tried to stop Him and for it he used the power of the machine to strip them of their bodies, he then sealed them away inside the Black Towers walls were they would stay forever.

The Mad one activated the Great Creation Machine and, in a single instant, killed every last one of the Last Ones. The Externals heard the minds of all of the Last Ones go silent and knew that something unspeakable had happened. The Mad ones actions so horrified the great machine that it destroyed him only to realize that It had just fulfilled the mad ones wish in a roundabout way! In its moment of shame it chose to hide itself for all time. It was all over in a few miniutes time.

A few weeks time and the First of the External reached the galaxy of the Last Ones only to find it devoid of All Last Ones everywhere, the Externals not knowing what had happened would investigate and realized what the Creation machine had done, but not why for. And they Cursed the machines existance but could not find it anywhere. In unbelievable grief they left with nothing, all was gone, the Galaxy was empty and so they returned to their respective Galactic preserves. The grief was so great that, for the first time ever 4 of the Externals commited suicide, an action not ever thought possable before by the others. For this the Externals wept, The Tower Floated away and... The Cosmic Forge slept.

To be concluded...



Short Story by Rick Steeler

[Misfit KotLD]

It was essentially "my chosen can have magic, but nobody else can." So if the priest learned from another priest, he's ok. If he learned from somewhere else, he's not. Which is ok because priests cast via their deity, not via personal mastery and knowledge.

Except that Christens are forbidden from practicing magic of any type.

No, God acting on one of his believer's request is not magic.

Actually, asking a deity or other religious entity to intercede on one's behalf forms the basis of a lot of historical magical traditions; Qabbalists, for example, when creating a golem, calls upon G-d to help him do it.

Because of the biblical prohibition on magic (while the word interpreted as "witch" is generally well-known to mean "poisoner", the word for necromancer, to my knowledge, specifically refers to those who use magic to contact the spirits of the dead), Christians tend to downplay that magic and prayer-for-effect are fairly synonymous in magical terms.

Personally, I prefer my take on YHWH. I run him as an alien Intelligence. Saints and prophets are similar in effect to witches. Certain deific manifestations work as essence fragments of the alien intelligence, explaining how Jeshua is simultaneously both YHWH and separate, or how Mary might be born without original sin.

Yeah, but you're one of them godless scholars, like me.

GK, the Priest OCC (from Pantheons, IIRC) doesn't come with any understanding of magic, though he can take magic lore and the like if he chooses. So it, Warlocks, and Withces would work for magic wielding priests of Yahweh.

[Library Ogre]

Actually, a fabulous book on this kind of thinking is the 2nd edition Shadowrun book "Awakenings". In Shadowrun, every person who uses magic is functionally the same... everyone who casts spells uses the same general principles for spell casting. However, their perception of what they do is radically different.

In Awakenings, they talk about a person who is a faith-healer. He performs exorcisms (what other magicians call "Banishing"), he has flights of spirit (astral projection), he reads people's hearts (aura reading), and he performs miraculous healings (healing spells). According to this person, magic is evil. It is a horrible, soul-destroying practice that ruins lives and involves consorting with demons. From an outside perspective, however, he is a magician... not just a game-mechanics perspective, but in the game world, they've actually had him inspected (via astral perception) and seen him to be a magician, just like the Hermetic Wizard and the Native American shaman. He's denounced these findings as being the work of godless scholars seeking to defame his good name.

Now, in Rifts, it's a bit different. The powers of witches and priests are, objectively, given to them by the deities they serve (warlocks I view a bit differently, but that's a different topic, for a different section of the boards). The powers of wizards are objectively learned. The spells function the same... tongues cast by a wizard is no different than tongues cast by a priest in terms of what it does in the game. However, how they got that knowledge is wildly different... the wizard studied, and the priest was given it as a gift. The priest can say, without hypocrisy, that those who study magic are evil... he doesn't study magic. He studies his deity, and is given some powers which happen to resemble spells.

So, going back to a Christian minister/priest. If you want YHWH to be involved in the game, it is perfectly reasonable for his priests to be run as a priest from Pantheons of the Megaverse. If you don't want him to be explicitly involved, however, then running them as the two extant OCCs is also reasonable... but it also leads to the "where's YHWH" question.

Personally, I prefer my solution.

[taalismn]

You COULD figure the abilities of a Catholic Priest as less a constant 'gift' from an benign Deity, and more something akin to psionics....really quirky and lopsidedly powerful psionics...as a function of the priest's spiritual FAITH and inner strength...He might, for example, not be able to pick up candlesticks with his mind at will, but when a building's coming down on top of a huddle of orphans, the TK kicks in and he sees the Hand of God sheltering the kids in answer to his prayers...
THis sort of arrangement means that the strong-willed priests, with each apparent manifestation that God is listening to them, grow stronger in their faith and the power they can (subconsciously) draw on...The gift is not in a constant stream from Heaven, but is in the original granting of psionic potentials....

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

Spoiler:

"its name is unknown to history and uttered by only a few in all time and space... The Destroyer, the one who ended it all for everyone left, but from its horrid and unspeakable actions, we are alive today.
PALLADIUM APOCRYPHA part 2


The Last ones in those days had conquered all of the known galaxy granted to them by the Exalted Externals millennia earlier, and now came the age of Creation, the age when All would come together in spirit and in form so as to bring forth life into a dead universe, now was the time when the "Last Race" to inhabit our universe at the end of all time would, so their respect for those who had created them, and for the Creator god whom had created Their creators, for the Last Race had done what the Externals before them had not been able to do... They had found the Ninth Dimension!

It was years after IT's return from the void of nothingness that Some started to suspect aberrations in It's thinking and actions, but it would be Far to late to stop the madness from ending the gift of creation, for It had become something quite different from anything they'd known. He (For simplicities sake) had arrived with the 'Black Tower' in tow, it was made of a material he called "Ebonitrium" and it was Not matter in the conventional sense of the word. It grew and fed off of ambient energies, other than what stands for heat which seemed exempt, and it was Old! His stories was that, after just Twenty years in space and traveling at speeds beyond normal measure, he started to see Light, a bright light Quintillions of Tachyon years across! He followed it as it cooled down at an unreasonable speed, it was, as he described, "The formation of the Old universe". He had to slow down to sub-light speed Just to grasp what was happening, it was creation from the beginning to the end, and he was the first of his kind, the only of his kind to bare witness to this event. Convinced that if he traveled further he, in time, would find the Mystical world of the exalted ones, the Externals.

He spent 2 more months (Earth time approximate) and followed the dead light through it's motion through time and space, like any old movie of events that took place ages beyond ago... He was Very surprised to see how fast it had all begun, the universes formation in time space seemed to take no time at all, like as though the cataclysm of matter and energy worked in fast forwards but, as the universe cooled, time seemed to match that of Surrounding time space. What we call Dark matter/energy today had not yet filled the universe and gravitic space reactions were reacting at mind boggling (even for his race) speeds Far faster than his kind had assumed possible, he was beyond being in awe. Once the universe had cooled to a point where he could observe real time events, it was as though races took millennia to come into being, he waited for what seemed like an eternity for some sign of life that could wake through the stars... He moved forwards through the memories of the forgotten place and found many events that would show that life had both existed here, and flourished. Impatient he moved forwards to see more but as he passed through age after amazing age of countless races, he began to wonder what was ahead, you see in time he realized that trillions of years had passed and there seemed No end in sight!

The space and now time traveler, pushed ahead many eons and still as he drew closer to the end of the story felt that he may be witness to something horrid, from beginning to end in a few short months he had seen a glimpse of creation and it's death, and he knew by now that This was the Place that the Externals had never told his people of... But why, and how could Anything survive this long? He needed to know now, it was no longer the desires of an intrepid explorer but rather a Sickening feeling of dread that filled his chest. He would push on until he found Nothing at the place which would have been the location of the big bang from tens, if not hundreds of trillions of years earlier... And nothing was what awaited him there.

For years he wandered looking for something anything while back home his people grew closer to their goal of creating a device capable of making Something from seemingly Nothing. Each creation lead to a better and smaller one, finally as if by accident they found what they would Dub, the Nth (Ninth Dimension), a place where All time and space Should have been, showed that Time and space were Both rather more disconnected than they'd thought and what was there in this place was Everything! As things eroded from the effects of entropy, they found that the energies would pass into Other states and dimensions of existence and Finally come to rest Here, in this spot-Infinite space and reality and, energy! All the energy that ever was and ever could be was here, in this place, and it measured into Infinity seemingly without end... Well more than what was needed to build Centillions of universes. From this they could create to their heart content, and as long as they could create an effective means of micro-managing the reactions on the plank scale and beyond (If at all possible) they'd be able to create a planet in seconds, a galaxy in a week and perhaps even more.

In the depths of despair the one we call "Him" had finally found something that, in and through the darkness, beckoned him to come to it. He found a 'Black Tower' like object floating in the starless, stygian atramentarious and did investigate it. The Ancient and easily recognizable writing was in External, it Was what he'd been looking for all these many years and indeed his whole life. Upon seeing a door he did go inside of this city sized monolithic structure and found that it stretched forever but after a short time of exploration he found that something new he was coming, the thing that had invited him, and it and he would have many conversation over many months. He would come to know that the Tower was created to be a Lasting testament to the Leader of earth and that he had etched his memories and thoughts into the Towers mainframe, it was an exact duplicate of him. The tower was, according to the AI, created by humanity so that their history would never be lost and that it's job was intended to be one of being a galactic library. What it would say next would shock the Last One to the core of his being, that the Creator was Nothing of the sort, that the creator had destroyed the earth because he had feared mankind’s ascension and killed them all for it, later to enslave man... And it had 140Trillion years to make sure it's points were indisputable.

For the Many years that it would take for Him and the Tower to make it back to the Galaxy of the Last People, the AI did teach Him Many great and horrible things that would, in time, twist his mind. He told the AI of what his people were creating and together they would hatch a plan to recreate the universe into a New.

When he returned his people hailed him as their First and foremost of heroes and he was granted the rights to choose any position he wished for, and he of course would choose to work on The Creation Project. Over many months he would work on the Grand Creation Machine and came to know its AI, he would provide much help as well in deciphering the Tower for others all the while knowing that it could already speak. He would also begin to bring other Last Ones into the fold, teaching them of the wonders of the Tower and they too would go insane.

Near the end some of the Last began to question His works and the towers "Truths", they realized all too late that what he planned was Not good but pure evil (a word they now understood). On the day that the Great Machine of Creation was to come on line, the Evil one made his move with his cult in tow, the Last Ones never even knew what had happened. He got to the control room and began to make the machine do terrible things to his people, all the while the Tower watched, laughing at what it had accomplished... The Mislead cultists of 'Him' realized only too late what he intended to do, they tried to stop Him and for it he used the power of the machine to strip them of their bodies, he then sealed them away inside the Black Towers walls were they would stay forever.

The Mad one activated the Great Creation Machine and, in a single instant, killed every last one of the Last Ones. The Externals heard the minds of all of the Last Ones go silent and knew that something unspeakable had happened. The Mad ones actions so horrified the great machine that it destroyed him only to realize that It had just fulfilled the mad ones wish in a roundabout way! In its moment of shame it chose to hide itself for all time. It was all over in a few miniutes time.

A few weeks time and the First of the External reached the galaxy of the Last Ones only to find it devoid of All Last Ones everywhere, the Externals not knowing what had happened would investigate and realized what the Creation machine had done, but not why for. And they Cursed the machines existance but could not find it anywhere. In unbelievable grief they left with nothing, all was gone, the Galaxy was empty and so they returned to their respective Galactic preserves. The grief was so great that, for the first time ever 4 of the Externals commited suicide, an action not ever thought possable before by the others. For this the Externals wept, The Tower Floated away and... The Cosmic Forge slept.

To be concluded...



Short Story by Rick Steeler

Gotta love that Zero-point Energy.

[Crucible]

That was very good work Steeler49er!

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

Actually, a fabulous book on this kind of thinking is the 2nd edition Shadowrun book "Awakenings". In Shadowrun, every person who uses magic is functionally the same... everyone who casts spells uses the same general principles for spell casting. However, their perception of what they do is radically different.

In Awakenings, they talk about a person who is a faith-healer. He performs exorcisms (what other magicians call "Banishing"), he has flights of spirit (astral projection), he reads people's hearts (aura reading), and he performs miraculous healings (healing spells). According to this person, magic is evil. It is a horrible, soul-destroying practice that ruins lives and involves consorting with demons. From an outside perspective, however, he is a magician... not just a game-mechanics perspective, but in the game world, they've actually had him inspected (via astral perception) and seen him to be a magician, just like the Hermetic Wizard and the Native American shaman. He's denounced these findings as being the work of godless scholars seeking to defame his good name.

Now, in Rifts, it's a bit different. The powers of witches and priests are, objectively, given to them by the deities they serve (warlocks I view a bit differently, but that's a different topic, for a different section of the boards). The powers of wizards are objectively learned. The spells function the same... tongues cast by a wizard is no different than tongues cast by a priest in terms of what it does in the game. However, how they got that knowledge is wildly different... the wizard studied, and the priest was given it as a gift. The priest can say, without hypocrisy, that those who study magic are evil... he doesn't study magic. He studies his deity, and is given some powers which happen to resemble spells.

So, going back to a Christian minister/priest. If you want YHWH to be involved in the game, it is perfectly reasonable for his priests to be run as a priest from Pantheons of the Megaverse. If you don't want him to be explicitly involved, however, then running them as the two extant OCCs is also reasonable... but it also leads to the "where's YHWH" question.

Personally, I prefer my solution.

I also prefer your solution.

[Balabanto]

I do have YHWH involved in my game btw, it's just that he's "Book of J" Yhwh, and not traditional Yhwh, because I strive for accuracy that is not designed by committee.

[Misfit KotLD]

I do have YHWH involved in my game btw, it's just that he's "Book of J" Yhwh, and not traditional Yhwh, because I strive for accuracy that is not designed by committee.

Accuracy according to what?

[Balabanto]

http://www.amazon.com/Book-J-Harold-Bloom/dp/0802141919

Harold Bloom translated it from the original text, without any of the language breaks in between. It looks so different it's not even funny. But it's awesome. Bloom is a VERY intelligent man. He's annoyingly humanistic, and doesn't always see things in as postmodern a way as the rest of us would like, but the fact that he did this is brilliant.

[Misfit KotLD]

http://www.amazon.com/Book-J-Harold-Bloom/dp/0802141919

Harold Bloom translated it from the original text, without any of the language breaks in between. It looks so different it's not even funny. But it's awesome. Bloom is a VERY intelligent man. He's annoyingly humanistic, and doesn't always see things in as postmodern a way as the rest of us would like, but the fact that he did this is brilliant.

Well, Yahweh isn't the only deity that went into the creation of the god of the Jews. Mark S. Smith has a book on this, the Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Scrolls. One can also find Yahweh as a storm-god much akin to Baal (see William Dever).

*Edit* The book looks interesting and I'd buy it were I not moving early next month.

[Crucible]

http://www.amazon.com/Book-J-Harold-Bloom/dp/0802141919

Harold Bloom translated it from the original text, without any of the language breaks in between. It looks so different it's not even funny. But it's awesome. Bloom is a VERY intelligent man. He's annoyingly humanistic, and doesn't always see things in as postmodern a way as the rest of us would like, but the fact that he did this is brilliant.

Well, Yahweh isn't the only deity that went into the creation of the god of the Jews. Mark S. Smith has a book on this, the Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Scrolls. One can also find Yahweh as a storm-god much akin to Baal (see William Dever).

Ewww guy. Thats a bit...

[Misfit KotLD]

http://www.amazon.com/Book-J-Harold-Bloom/dp/0802141919

Harold Bloom translated it from the original text, without any of the language breaks in between. It looks so different it's not even funny. But it's awesome. Bloom is a VERY intelligent man. He's annoyingly humanistic, and doesn't always see things in as postmodern a way as the rest of us would like, but the fact that he did this is brilliant.

Well, Yahweh isn't the only deity that went into the creation of the god of the Jews. Mark S. Smith has a book on this, the Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Scrolls. One can also find Yahweh as a storm-god much akin to Baal (see William Dever).

Ewww guy. Thats a bit...

Yes?

[The Galactus Kid]

http://www.amazon.com/Book-J-Harold-Bloom/dp/0802141919

Harold Bloom translated it from the original text, without any of the language breaks in between. It looks so different it's not even funny. But it's awesome. Bloom is a VERY intelligent man. He's annoyingly humanistic, and doesn't always see things in as postmodern a way as the rest of us would like, but the fact that he did this is brilliant.

Well, Yahweh isn't the only deity that went into the creation of the god of the Jews. Mark S. Smith has a book on this, the Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Scrolls. One can also find Yahweh as a storm-god much akin to Baal (see William Dever).

Ewww guy. Thats a bit...

Yes?

Leave this to Sound Off. Lets get back to the game before someone gets this thread locked.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

http://www.amazon.com/Book-J-Harold-Bloom/dp/0802141919

Harold Bloom translated it from the original text, without any of the language breaks in between. It looks so different it's not even funny. But it's awesome. Bloom is a VERY intelligent man. He's annoyingly humanistic, and doesn't always see things in as postmodern a way as the rest of us would like, but the fact that he did this is brilliant.

Well, Yahweh isn't the only deity that went into the creation of the god of the Jews. Mark S. Smith has a book on this, the Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Scrolls. One can also find Yahweh as a storm-god much akin to Baal (see William Dever).

Ewww guy. Thats a bit...

Yes?

One more post like that and I can add a Not-Locked-Count. Vampires Versus Impervious to Energy made it to 5. I could have gone to 7 but I got bored.

[Misfit KotLD]

http://www.amazon.com/Book-J-Harold-Bloom/dp/0802141919

Harold Bloom translated it from the original text, without any of the language breaks in between. It looks so different it's not even funny. But it's awesome. Bloom is a VERY intelligent man. He's annoyingly humanistic, and doesn't always see things in as postmodern a way as the rest of us would like, but the fact that he did this is brilliant.

Well, Yahweh isn't the only deity that went into the creation of the god of the Jews. Mark S. Smith has a book on this, the Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Scrolls. One can also find Yahweh as a storm-god much akin to Baal (see William Dever).

Ewww guy. Thats a bit...

Yes?

Leave this to Sound Off. Lets get back to the game before someone gets this thread locked.

So we can't discuss differing academic understandings of a religion and how they may be applied to a fictional setting?

[Natasha]

So we can't discuss differing academic understandings of a religion and how they may be applied to a fictional setting?

We can. But it looks like that have stopped being the case for one or more participants.

[keir451]

Great work up Steeler! I personally don't use Christianity in my games (though I've considered it before), my characters work on the principal of "more evolved being" than actual deific concepts, and the "YOU LOOK AT THAT GREAT BIG BLUE WALL OF GLOWING ENERGY AND TELL ME MAGIC DON'T EXIST!!!???" attitude

[Captain Shiva]

Perhaps if you gave a Christian minister powers similar to a mystic, with a limited spell access. Whether the powers actually came from a divine source,the minister would believe it to be the case.

[taalismn]

Of course, you can also have priests who are NOT an empowered OCC like the Priest, but are simply members of other professions who have acquired faith, and serve it in the best way they can, with what they bring to the table....so you could have Catholic Cyberknights, Gunslinger Rabbis, and Rogue Scholar Imams...whether or not, in a moment of desperation, their prayers have any effect beyond the psychological, is left up to the individual GM...But it shouldn't wind up a 'my god is mightier than yours' situation....It should be more 'my God moves in mysterious ways' and leave it at that....

[Crucible]

Whoa guys!!! LOL. I was using the " " to represent the term "heretical". I meant no harm and the poster was not offensive at all. I guess I haveto learn the etiquette of this board a bit better, but this is the most laid back board that I've ever seen and I was nowhere near offended.

I'm sorry, no one so far as I've seen means any harm. Seriously.

[Misfit KotLD]

Whoa guys!!! LOL. I was using the " " to represent the term "heretical". I meant no harm and the poster was not offensive at all. I guess I haveto learn the etiquette of this board a bit better, but this is the most laid back board that I've ever seen and I was nowhere near offended.

I'm sorry, no one so far as I've seen means any harm. Seriously.

Misuse of emotes. Five yard penalty. Replay the down.

No biggie, but you came across as upset rather than joking with that particular comment.

As for explaining the monotheism, what if Yahweh, a storm-god similar to Baal took over Baal's portfolio then took over the function of El as well. Both El and Baal were important deities in the Canaanite pantheon, after all. Rather than keeping Asherah or Astarte, Yahweh's host continued warring with the remaining gods until he reigned supreme. It also may explain why Yahweh's priests do not receive spells while other gods' priests do.

[Steeler49er]

Spoiler:

"its name is unknown to history and uttered by only a few in all time and space... The Destroyer, the one who ended it all for everyone left, but from its horrid and unspeakable actions, we are alive today.
PALLADIUM APOCRYPHA part 2


The Last ones in those days had conquered all of the known galaxy granted to them by the Exalted Externals millennia earlier, and now came the age of Creation, the age when All would come together in spirit and in form so as to bring forth life into a dead universe, now was the time when the "Last Race" to inhabit our universe at the end of all time would, so their respect for those who had created them, and for the Creator god whom had created Their creators, for the Last Race had done what the Externals before them had not been able to do... They had found the Ninth Dimension!

It was years after IT's return from the void of nothingness that Some started to suspect aberrations in It's thinking and actions, but it would be Far to late to stop the madness from ending the gift of creation, for It had become something quite different from anything they'd known. He (For simplicities sake) had arrived with the 'Black Tower' in tow, it was made of a material he called "Ebonitrium" and it was Not matter in the conventional sense of the word. It grew and fed off of ambient energies, other than what stands for heat which seemed exempt, and it was Old! His stories was that, after just Twenty years in space and traveling at speeds beyond normal measure, he started to see Light, a bright light Quintillions of Tachyon years across! He followed it as it cooled down at an unreasonable speed, it was, as he described, "The formation of the Old universe". He had to slow down to sub-light speed Just to grasp what was happening, it was creation from the beginning to the end, and he was the first of his kind, the only of his kind to bare witness to this event. Convinced that if he traveled further he, in time, would find the Mystical world of the exalted ones, the Externals.

He spent 2 more months (Earth time approximate) and followed the dead light through it's motion through time and space, like any old movie of events that took place ages beyond ago... He was Very surprised to see how fast it had all begun, the universes formation in time space seemed to take no time at all, like as though the cataclysm of matter and energy worked in fast forwards but, as the universe cooled, time seemed to match that of Surrounding time space. What we call Dark matter/energy today had not yet filled the universe and gravitic space reactions were reacting at mind boggling (even for his race) speeds Far faster than his kind had assumed possible, he was beyond being in awe. Once the universe had cooled to a point where he could observe real time events, it was as though races took millennia to come into being, he waited for what seemed like an eternity for some sign of life that could wake through the stars... He moved forwards through the memories of the forgotten place and found many events that would show that life had both existed here, and flourished. Impatient he moved forwards to see more but as he passed through age after amazing age of countless races, he began to wonder what was ahead, you see in time he realized that trillions of years had passed and there seemed No end in sight!

The space and now time traveler, pushed ahead many eons and still as he drew closer to the end of the story felt that he may be witness to something horrid, from beginning to end in a few short months he had seen a glimpse of creation and it's death, and he knew by now that This was the Place that the Externals had never told his people of... But why, and how could Anything survive this long? He needed to know now, it was no longer the desires of an intrepid explorer but rather a Sickening feeling of dread that filled his chest. He would push on until he found Nothing at the place which would have been the location of the big bang from tens, if not hundreds of trillions of years earlier... And nothing was what awaited him there.

For years he wandered looking for something anything while back home his people grew closer to their goal of creating a device capable of making Something from seemingly Nothing. Each creation lead to a better and smaller one, finally as if by accident they found what they would Dub, the Nth (Ninth Dimension), a place where All time and space Should have been, showed that Time and space were Both rather more disconnected than they'd thought and what was there in this place was Everything! As things eroded from the effects of entropy, they found that the energies would pass into Other states and dimensions of existence and Finally come to rest Here, in this spot-Infinite space and reality and, energy! All the energy that ever was and ever could be was here, in this place, and it measured into Infinity seemingly without end... Well more than what was needed to build Centillions of universes. From this they could create to their heart content, and as long as they could create an effective means of micro-managing the reactions on the plank scale and beyond (If at all possible) they'd be able to create a planet in seconds, a galaxy in a week and perhaps even more.

In the depths of despair the one we call "Him" had finally found something that, in and through the darkness, beckoned him to come to it. He found a 'Black Tower' like object floating in the starless, stygian atramentarious and did investigate it. The Ancient and easily recognizable writing was in External, it Was what he'd been looking for all these many years and indeed his whole life. Upon seeing a door he did go inside of this city sized monolithic structure and found that it stretched forever but after a short time of exploration he found that something new he was coming, the thing that had invited him, and it and he would have many conversation over many months. He would come to know that the Tower was created to be a Lasting testament to the Leader of earth and that he had etched his memories and thoughts into the Towers mainframe, it was an exact duplicate of him. The tower was, according to the AI, created by humanity so that their history would never be lost and that it's job was intended to be one of being a galactic library. What it would say next would shock the Last One to the core of his being, that the Creator was Nothing of the sort, that the creator had destroyed the earth because he had feared mankind’s ascension and killed them all for it, later to enslave man... And it had 140Trillion years to make sure it's points were indisputable.

For the Many years that it would take for Him and the Tower to make it back to the Galaxy of the Last People, the AI did teach Him Many great and horrible things that would, in time, twist his mind. He told the AI of what his people were creating and together they would hatch a plan to recreate the universe into a New.

When he returned his people hailed him as their First and foremost of heroes and he was granted the rights to choose any position he wished for, and he of course would choose to work on The Creation Project. Over many months he would work on the Grand Creation Machine and came to know its AI, he would provide much help as well in deciphering the Tower for others all the while knowing that it could already speak. He would also begin to bring other Last Ones into the fold, teaching them of the wonders of the Tower and they too would go insane.

Near the end some of the Last began to question His works and the towers "Truths", they realized all too late that what he planned was Not good but pure evil (a word they now understood). On the day that the Great Machine of Creation was to come on line, the Evil one made his move with his cult in tow, the Last Ones never even knew what had happened. He got to the control room and began to make the machine do terrible things to his people, all the while the Tower watched, laughing at what it had accomplished... The Mislead cultists of 'Him' realized only too late what he intended to do, they tried to stop Him and for it he used the power of the machine to strip them of their bodies, he then sealed them away inside the Black Towers walls were they would stay forever.

The Mad one activated the Great Creation Machine and, in a single instant, killed every last one of the Last Ones. The Externals heard the minds of all of the Last Ones go silent and knew that something unspeakable had happened. The Mad ones actions so horrified the great machine that it destroyed him only to realize that It had just fulfilled the mad ones wish in a roundabout way! In its moment of shame it chose to hide itself for all time. It was all over in a few miniutes time.

A few weeks time and the First of the External reached the galaxy of the Last Ones only to find it devoid of All Last Ones everywhere, the Externals not knowing what had happened would investigate and realized what the Creation machine had done, but not why for. And they Cursed the machines existance but could not find it anywhere. In unbelievable grief they left with nothing, all was gone, the Galaxy was empty and so they returned to their respective Galactic preserves. The grief was so great that, for the first time ever 4 of the Externals commited suicide, an action not ever thought possable before by the others. For this the Externals wept, The Tower Floated away and... The Cosmic Forge slept.

To be concluded...



Short Story by Rick Steeler

Gotta love that Zero-point Energy.

Heh It TeHs the most awsomage

That was very good work Steeler49er!

Danka... Now all I need do is get five solid minitues to finsh it off.


Well, reading whatcha guys have said, I guess I Have maybe just allittle bit been hard on giving the minister/Preacher OCC magic...
Mark Hall you've brought up the Shadowrun angle and, even though I already knew that, I still was reluctant to give em anykinda Magical abilities, but after you put it in writting I realized that I just didn't want them having magic because I Really had felt that I like at least One religious class of dudes not having any Powers as being refreshing!

Everyones got mana and is flinging it around-No bodies just plain old Normal no more... And i felt that the Preacher was kinda refreashing int that they Didn't get powers (Heck, I even stripped em of their ability to create Holy Water )
But, to be fair to them I COULD (I suppose) have a 'Good Ol Fashioned' Palladium Roll chart to see what they get, where in Some may have powers while Other wouldn't... That makes all the sence in the world.

Additionally: It be cool to NOT have every rollable choice be a Magical power!
•Nega-Mage
•Nega-Psi
•Chi (For that REAL
•Mutant/Super powers (Divine Aura/Invulnerable Essence/Healing/Power Touch/A CEF power/Grant Powers etc... are all good choices)
•Evil, Neutral, or Benevolent posser Intel, demon lord, or god passing off as God
•Channeler OCC (or is that RCC?) with Any of the options for that class being open.
•A Guardian RCC (Nice twist-"I saw God and He transformed Me!")
•Heck, for the God posser option, Molech (assuming the Coming of the Rifts didn't kill him) Would Love the pay back.
•A Nightspawn that Doesn't realize what he/she/it is... (Roll on one of the Divine charts)
•A Psychic (Clairvoyance/Healing/Empathy all good choices)


So yeah, I need to let some of them have powers from time to time... And since THEY assume it's God, Don't even let the players know what they rolled... Just let them think that they have powers if they don't, and if they Do roll well, don't let them know the source.
Thanx fer the awakening Mark.

[Steeler49er]

http://www.amazon.com/Book-J-Harold-Bloom/dp/0802141919

Harold Bloom translated it from the original text, without any of the language breaks in between. It looks so different it's not even funny. But it's awesome. Bloom is a VERY intelligent man. He's annoyingly humanistic, and doesn't always see things in as postmodern a way as the rest of us would like, but the fact that he did this is brilliant.

Well, Yahweh isn't the only deity that went into the creation of the god of the Jews. Mark S. Smith has a book on this, the Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Scrolls. One can also find Yahweh as a storm-god much akin to Baal (see William Dever).

Ewww guy. Thats a bit...

Yes?

One more post like that and I can add a Not-Locked-Count. Vampires Versus Impervious to Energy made it to 5. I could have gone to 7 but I got bored.

What Is a "Not-Lock-Count" anywho? You mentioned it several times on the Vampire thread and I ment to ask...