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For Boxed Nightmares 2, an idea suddenly occurred to me a couple of days ago. I want to revise Erick's Victim Campaign Rules from 1st edition. I'm using the bare bones of my streamlined rules from the other thread. This is very, very rough still, so any feedback would be appreciated. Linkim

Great.

the Victims are the Innocent bystanders who got themsleves caught in the middle of something supernatural,some is lucky to survive and this attract my investigators.

I do Victims games,before my investigating games.

great idea, the "ordinary" people in BTS are still way too powerful and out-of-the-ordinary. must be KS's obsession with heroes.

Aw dude... great minds are thinking alike here.

I'm sure I posted it somewhere in the forum, but I had the same idea some months back and I'm in the middle of writing it up (while working on the Ghost Stories as well). My hopes is to update all the rules and idea Erick started and provide a boat load of adventure ideas using the grade C horror flims, books and comics for inspiration. I've got a list of the usual suspects and archtypes mostly penned out.

And yeah, a similar idea I had as well we its a great way to introduce people to the supernatural and in time they could evolve to an ordinary human class. I alos added an option to where psychic abilites begin budding with their first experience, but they are raw and lack control and focus but in time they can evolve into a psychic class.

I also have optional rules planned like "Karma Points" where players earn points for doing the foolish things they nromally wouldnt. They can use these points to survive longer or escape certain death at times and so on. This is one of my methods to encourage players to do the dumb things they'd rather not (there is always some twinkie who doesnt get into the spirit of the horror and this helps out).

Sigh... I got lots of stuff planned, just the time to write it all.

Vidynn wrote:great idea, the "ordinary" people in BTS are still way too powerful and out-of-the-ordinary. must be KS's obsession with heroes.

An obsession with heroes aint such a bad thing.

mrloucifer wrote:Sigh... I got lots of stuff planned, just the time to write it all.

Yea, I know exactly what you mean there.

mrloucifer wrote:

Vidynn wrote:great idea, the "ordinary" people in BTS are still way too powerful and out-of-the-ordinary. must be KS's obsession with heroes.

An obsession with heroes aint such a bad thing.

Oddly, I've never thought of BtS characters as heroes; KS's obsession notwithstanding.

Natasha wrote:

mrloucifer wrote:

Vidynn wrote:Oddly, I've never thought of BtS characters as heroes; KS's obsession notwithstanding.

Why not? The BTS world is a world in constant threat of being over run by forces the majority dont believe in and couldnt understadn them if they did.

The undeground culture of the few misfits, outcasts and oddities of the public are the heroes of this game. Even armed with something simple as the truth is a powerful weapon in this game. That is something all the Oridanry people P.C.C. are armed with and willing to use it. Their lives are changed forever in the pursuit of protecting themselves and others from the supernatural and they do it without psychic abilities or an overwhelming amount of knowledge or understanding of the Supernatural like the Parapsycholiogist or the gifted folks.

Being armed with knoweldge and willing to stand up against superior forces makes them heroes in everyway in my book.

As you may suspect, Ive stood on this soapbox a few times now.

mrloucifer wrote:

Natasha wrote:

mrloucifer wrote:

Vidynn wrote:Oddly, I've never thought of BtS characters as heroes; KS's obsession notwithstanding.

Why not? The BTS world is a world in constant threat of being over run by forces the majority dont believe in and couldnt understadn them if they did.

The undeground culture of the few misfits, outcasts and oddities of the public are the heroes of this game. Even armed with something simple as the truth is a powerful weapon in this game. That is something all the Oridanry people P.C.C. are armed with and willing to use it. Their lives are changed forever in the pursuit of protecting themselves and others from the supernatural and they do it without psychic abilities or an overwhelming amount of knowledge or understanding of the Supernatural like the Parapsycholiogist or the gifted folks.

Being armed with knoweldge and willing to stand up against superior forces makes them heroes in everyway in my book.

As you may suspect, Ive stood on this soapbox a few times now.

We'll have to be clear about what we mean by "hero".

I mean heroes like in hopeful, powerful, promising, the kind KS writes about.

I always feel that BtS Earth is doomed and the fight is already lost; hopeless. You can still be heroic, though, sure. The threat is immense and so alien that making sense of it is ultimately impossible and defeating it is ultimately impossible. Sure there's lots of knowledge but there's just too much that's unknown that it's overwhelming.

Natasha wrote:We'll have to be clear about what we mean by "hero".

I mean heroes like in hopeful, powerful, promising, the kind KS writes about.

I always feel that BtS Earth is doomed and the fight is already lost; hopeless. You can still be heroic, though, sure. The threat is immense and so alien that making sense of it is ultimately impossible and defeating it is ultimately impossible. Sure there's lots of knowledge but there's just too much that's unknown that it's overwhelming.

This is part of the the beauty of RPG's right here... I love hearing other peoples opinions and thoughts on a paticular setting.

In my case, I never saw it as a lost cause. I see the world as constantly threatened and could potentially become a lost cause, but the heroes of the BTS have so far held the forces at bay over the ages. I see it as teetering on the balance, but as of yet its never tipped.

That being said, even in your setting they would be "doomed" or "Tragic Heroes". Every war has its heroes, even the side that loses has/had its heroes. And in the case of your game I suspect the characters dont know its a lost cause, and even in they I imagine they'd wounldnt go without a fight (personally thats how I would anyway)... "You want a peice of me and my world? COME AND GET IT! But you'd better pack a lunch, cause it gonna be a long trip pal!"

mrloucifer wrote:

Natasha wrote:We'll have to be clear about what we mean by "hero".

I mean heroes like in hopeful, powerful, promising, the kind KS writes about.

I always feel that BtS Earth is doomed and the fight is already lost; hopeless. You can still be heroic, though, sure. The threat is immense and so alien that making sense of it is ultimately impossible and defeating it is ultimately impossible. Sure there's lots of knowledge but there's just too much that's unknown that it's overwhelming.

This is part of the the beauty of RPG's right here... I love hearing other peoples opinions and thoughts on a paticular setting.

In my case, I never saw it as a lost cause. I see the world as constantly threatened and could potentially become a lost cause, but the heroes of the BTS have so far held the forces at bay over the ages. I see it as teetering on the balance, but as of yet its never tipped.

That being said, even in your setting they would be "doomed" or "Tragic Heroes". Every war has its heroes, even the side that loses has/had its heroes. And in the case of your game I suspect the characters dont know its a lost cause, and even in they I imagine they'd wounldnt go without a fight (personally thats how I would anyway)... "You want a peice of me and my world? COME AND GET IT! But you'd better pack a lunch, cause it gonna be a long trip pal!"

I believe "tragic hero" is the term that I was fishing for.

Part of the reason it's never tipped, in my interpretation of the setting, is that the forces threatening humanity aren't very good organisers. They're vagabonds and loners. The ones that do organise are manageable. It's not the humans keeping the balance, however.

And, sadly, the humans will never eliminate the threat.

Natasha wrote:
And, sadly, the humans will never eliminate the threat.

No doubt, its not something that should ever be eliminated.

But Kevin in his smarts concerning Lazlo's theories explained something along the lines of "For as long as there have been supernatural beings preying up on humans, there have been human beings who have evolved (psychics) to combat them."

Being the dork I am, I do remember than his speech was on page 30, and this led into the ISP boost ability once in the presence of the supernatural. Ive always liked the idea of our PC's abilities leech fuel from the supernatural and in turned used against them. But thats another topic me thinks.. .this one was supposed to be about the Victims, the ones the psychics are protecting to begin with.

It's not a totally different topic.

Protecting people and the proximity rules makes dealing with arcanists and human "monsters" much more difficult. There's also a body once dealt with....

mrloucifer wrote:

Vidynn wrote:great idea, the "ordinary" people in BTS are still way too powerful and out-of-the-ordinary. must be KS's obsession with heroes.

An obsession with heroes aint such a bad thing.

of course not. but in a Horror-game I enjoy aspects of against all odds with a huge chance of failure, characters getting killed or going mad (as in Call of Cthulhu). the BTS-design leads to characters brimming with psionic and other abilities, I just would enjoy it more if they were weaker. at least the "ordinary" people should be ordinary and not stacked with bonuses and special abilities. if an ordinary guy or girl becomes a hero against all odds and maybe at terrible cost the taste is even sweeter.

The creation rules are fine. I agree with Vidynn.

As the result, I disagree with the "Victims in Action". They are victims but victims are not always idiots. I must again read the BtS-1 though. I have forgotten all that Wujcik wrote there.

Thanks a ton for the feedback, guys. It is all helpful. I'll post a more detailed response later.

Loucifer, I apologize for stepping on your proverbial toes. I can see from your Riding Shotgun with Nick Bradshaw story that the two of you are developing an entire sourcebook around the Victims concept. I don't want to confuse the issue by pressing my system that I made up in a matter of minutes and never had a chance to playtest. I think that I will simply change the name of my system from "Victims" to something else.

Vika, I'll see if I can clarify that description in a way that doesn't portray the victims as idiots.

Concerning the tone of the system, I think it varies a little from one edition to the next. 1st edition BtS was much more general, including silly adventures to gritty and dark adventures. 2nd edition refined the game thematically, a process started in the Boxed Nightmares sourcebook. 2nd edition is a game abot the control of knowledge and grass-roots operations to protect the hazy boarders of the world.

Personally, I think of the worlds of BtS Earth and Nightbane Earth as Before & After Pictures. BtS Earth is the setting that is on the verge of being consumed by darkness. At any given time, the world is only one bad campaign from the good guys loosing and the world being flooded by darkness. There was certainly a high level adventure to that affect which I had planned for Boxed Nightmares 2, but I've run out of time for that one. Nightbane Earth is such a world overrun by darkness. There are no safe places left, and the big bads of the setting are intelligent and powerful beyond the point of ever feasibly removing them. Nightbane Earth is what BtS Earth could become if the adventurers stop investigating, fighting, and sacrificing.

Oh no, dont think of it as stepping on my toes (I didnt). You got some idea's worth looking into here. I may run some thing by you via email infact, as a favored BTS colleague of mine, I usually love your your head is on a given subject.

Lord Z wrote:Vika, I'll see if I can clarify that description in a way that doesn't portray the victims as idiots.

I am sad that I have not read the book again. Still.... maybe on the weekend I will have the free time.

I'm looking forward to that letter, Lou. That is despite the fact that you just twice expressed your love for my head, and I am feeling a little uncomfortable from that.

The weak part of my take on the Revised Victim Rules, I realize, is actually what Vika pointed out. The explanation of the style is way lacking. I am actually a little relieved that you are thinking about an entire sourcebook on the subject.

Lord Z wrote: I am actually a little relieved that you are thinking about an entire sourcebook on the subject.

Its only because of my love of the victim's class and vast amount of experience running victim games that I would even consider it.

Oh, and learn to accept compliments about your head already! sheesh!

mrloucifer wrote:Oh, and learn to accept compliments about your head already! sheesh!

He just worried you are the zombie and want to eat his brains.

vika wrote:

mrloucifer wrote:Oh, and learn to accept compliments about your head already! sheesh!

He just worried you are the zombie and want to eat his brains.

Wise man say: you are nothing until you've met a zombie that refused to eat your brains.

mrloucifer wrote:

vika wrote:

mrloucifer wrote:Oh, and learn to accept compliments about your head already! sheesh!

He just worried you are the zombie and want to eat his brains.

Wise man say: you are nothing until you've met a zombie that refused to eat your brains.

Awesome. I like it. Though I am not sure what it makes you

vika wrote:

mrloucifer wrote:

vika wrote:

mrloucifer wrote:Oh, and learn to accept compliments about your head already! sheesh!

He just worried you are the zombie and want to eat his brains.

Wise man say: you are nothing until you've met a zombie that refused to eat your brains.

Awesome. I like it. Though I am not sure what it makes you

Exactly! Look at it in a complimentary fashion: Vika, if I was a zombie, I'd eat your brains.

There's a compliment there when you read between the lines.

Clever. It is the zombie's nature to eat the brains. I think that the true compliment is for you to bring to me the tastiest freshest brains you can find.

Okay, my rule set has been renamed and revised. It is now the Scream Queen Rules. If you read the previous rules, they haven't changed enough to warrant a full re-read. I have tweaked some of the grammar and extensively re-wrote the ...in Action section. I also added a simplified experience reward system from my Streamlined Pally System Rules.

Linky-doo!

I hope everyone will enjoy what I'm cooking up here... I also hope that Kevin will like it enough to publish it in the first place.

When I create the truly ordinary person I make the attributes be 1D4+8 for younger people and 1D6+8 for the mature people. Although children can be very smart and sometimes are more charming than adults, I like to keep it simple.

That's not a bad suggestion, V. A less random range of attributes might work.