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Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:29 am
by cornholioprime
hecubus23 wrote:While I appreciate the time those made Dead Reign put into it, in my opinion, there are some things that don't make any sense when using Dead Reign zombies in Rifts. Page 55 of the main book, it says that the zombies can be used in Rifts, but then lists things that would and would not work against zombies. Lasers, ion beams, particle beams are listed as having NO EFFECT against these zombies. Why? We now have a zombie that is now MDC that is immune to lasers. I don't understand how flesh that once was SDC and now MDC is immune to these types of weapons. So if a new and improved Rift's zombie is hit in the head with a 1d6x10 MDC Particle Beam gun, the zombie groans a bit, just ignores the damage and begins to chase the poor sap that shot it?
Next paragraph tells us that rail guns and other mega damage projectile weapons are useless against a zombie UNLESS one aims at the head. So a Glitter Boy utterly destroys the center torso of a zombie, but seeing it didn't hit the head, the zombie laughs (if it could laugh), groans a bit and then chases and attacks the Glitter Boy, seeing that a gun that can punch holes in Coalition armor, cannot kill a zombie unless it hits it in the head. Puzzled? I know I am.
Next paragraph says that vibro blades do only one third damage. Again I find no reason for this. If the zombie wears Calvin Klein, does it get additional MDC? Again, limiting vibro blades makes no sense to me.
Anyone else find this a bit confusing?
Undead in the Rifts Universe as well as most other Universes (read: game settings) in the Palladium
Megaverse simply have many of those properties to start with, and when you think about it these particular zombies have been greatly watered down by Rifts standards -most Palladium Undead are absolutely immune to most forms of non-magical, conventional damage, and worse yet, Zombies in the Rifts setting can come back unless they are very carefully disposed of -even when blown to bits.
In the Palladium Books line, the Zombies of Dead Reign Earth are as far as I know, unique, and Kevin allows them to retain
some of their uniqueness when they cross over to Rifts.
There's no real confusion here.
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:22 am
by vika
Aim for the head.
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:44 pm
by vika
A company of Coalition troops will include borgs and bots and and bombs and rail guns and probably u-rounds. Sufficient fire power, seems for the dozen zombies. Head shots come a bit easily in Rifts.
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:39 pm
by Captain Shiva
If I ever use use Dead Reign zombies in Rifts, I will change some of their vulnerabilities. They will still be affected by SDC weapons,and only destroying the brain or fire will get rid of them for good.Everything else,they will eventually regenerate.High tech MDC energy weapons will not effect them,except for the notable exception of plasma weapons,which do double damage. Railguns will probably do double damage compared to normal SDC projectile weapons, including the Boom Gun.But,destroying the brain will still be necessary for final destruction. Vibro-blades will likely do double SDC edged weapon damage.I will probably make them Hit Point creatures,like other Rifts undead. This way, I will try to retain the "feel" of the zombie movie genre, while letting MD weapon equipped players retain an edge of over Joe Schmoe vagabond trapped in a remote area, with a shotgun and chainsaw.
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:30 pm
by MaxxSterling
I just started playing GURPS instead. Issue solved. But for your issue, um, don't use Dead Reign with Rifts. Keep it as two seperate games. When you start trying to blur the lines, you lose the definition. -Man that was deep.
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:19 pm
by cornholioprime
vika wrote:A company of Coalition troops will include borgs and bots and and bombs and rail guns and probably u-rounds. Sufficient fire power, seems for the dozen zombies. Head shots come a bit easily in Rifts.
What she said.
One "measly" Coalition Trooper Grenade is likely to spoil their whole day, let alone a whole phalanx of troopers in more-than-adequate Body Armor.
Head Shots or no.
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:12 am
by cornholioprime
hecubus23 wrote:One "measly" grenade with a lousy blast radius will be useless if the zombies are in melee range with Coalition troops. And remember, by the time the Coalition troops realize that the zombies are not your average zombie, their lousy armor won't do them any good because like I said, the MOST COMMON weapon used by the Coalition is laser based (LASER=NO DAMAGE) and since the zombies are now MDC, I would guess that their hand to hand damage is MDC.. The few number of cyborgs will be over run and with a quick conversion rate from human to zombie, combined with the base Prowl skill and Speed of the DR zombies, two dozen zombies grows very quickly.
The Coalition armor does not hide the human PPE, so each soldier is a beacon and even more so if the zombies attack at night.
And with every human death, the zombies regen.
The Coalition might win, but the cost would be high.
A]] You're forgetting the relatively high protective values of Armor worn by even the lowliest Dog Boys -if anything, it'll give the Coalition troops time to think about what they're fighting and how they are different.
B]] Presumably, the Coalition is ALREADY used to fighting Zombies, so they won't be using "mere lasers" in any event (IIRC, Rifts Zombies are similarly resistant or impervious to them as well) -the instant that they see/hear about Undead, they're going to resort to whatever the NTSET "manual" tells them what to do about unleashing the "heavy" anti-Undead weapons. It gets even worse for the Zombies once data comes in and the Coalition sees that these particular beings are much easier to permanently put down, relatively speaking, than the usual flavor of Undead.
C]] That "mini-horde" of Zombies is going to be well-whittled down if not completely destroyed looooong before they close to melee range -DR Zombies and Zombies in general aren't really all that well-versed in the arts of subterfuge or camouflage or ambush-and the Coalition isn't known for letting you walk right to Melee Range for free.....
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:01 pm
by Natasha
Citizen Lazlo wrote:Just a few words.
Dead Reign was never originally intended to mesh with
Rifts.
You know as well as I do that won't stop people from trying
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:56 pm
by Gryphon Chick
First of all, it says you CAN combine the games and convert characters, it never said it was recommended. When you convert a character from one system to the other it is like putting a dog in a hat and t-shirt and telling him to work at McDonalds. Sure, you can do it, but is it really such a good idea? I personally think that it doesn't work and the games which are set up to be balanced with their own materials become unbalanced when you add something like Rifts or Nightbane into the mix.
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:10 am
by Ziggurat the Eternal
I don't want to derail the thread or anything, but what kind of changes, f any, would you make to half living characters in rifts?
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:03 pm
by psam_rage
... I see no where that states they are immune to Energy Weapons... actually it says that energy weapons ward them off like fire...
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:18 am
by Augur
People will read and still not understand or accept the rules proffered whether the rules are sensible and well-written or not.
On a lighter note, I have sent the Rifts Mercenary group which I GM for on Explorers Unlimited to a graveyard of a world in the Heroes Unlimited dimension.
They are beginning to realize:
All their MDC stuff has been point-for-point converted to SDC.
This world, while substantially more friendly than the last dimension from which they escaped, is largely DEAD--
they have no idea how right they are!
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:07 pm
by psam_rage
So.... explain why a boom gun wouldn't due much... its a rail-gun shotgun.
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:18 am
by Augur
It doesn't matter folks.
MOST undead are wholly immune to ALL CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS be they SDC or MDC.
Dead Reign Zombies are no different in that respect.
Where the Dead reign zombies become insanely lethal is in respect to their natural A.R. in respect to weapons that CAN harm them.
Anyway, CORNHOLIO PRIME already said EVERYTHING that needed explaining--and more eloquently than myself. Scroll up and read his post if you want an actual rules explanation. Continue the banter if you just like the back and forth.
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:33 am
by krate
My opinion on the wonky rules is that the designer tried to convey the sense of dread that you get in most zombie flicks. In most zombie flicks, zombies are not super-killing machines, they are actually poor combatants. But zombies are relentless, fearless and come in hordes... so that eventually the defenders, even if well armed, must fall back.
So, how do you foster this sense of dread in a game with robots and lasers? Well, they created some rules to limit their effectiveness. Do they make sense? is that the only way to do it? I don't know. But that was the intent: to put fear in players by making the zombies harder to take down even with all the fancy weapons and equipment.
I think the best way to play Dead Reign, in any setting, is for the group to be on board and willing to play a zombie game and accept all the conventions that such a game entails. Once everyone is up for a DR game, then the brain munching...errrr p.p.e. munching can begin!
And that's my 2 cents.
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:16 pm
by Mech-Viper Prime
personally the whole switch to mdc , is kinda a poor way of handling it, the whole ppe enviroment never sat well with me, when everything starts became mdc even stuff there no reason for it to be mdc
Re: Rifts and Dead Reign
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:26 pm
by Mech-Viper Prime
krate wrote:My opinion on the wonky rules is that the designer tried to convey the sense of dread that you get in most zombie flicks. In most zombie flicks, zombies are not super-killing machines, they are actually poor combatants. But zombies are relentless, fearless and come in hordes... so that eventually the defenders, even if well armed, must fall back.
So, how do you foster this sense of dread in a game with robots and lasers? Well, they created some rules to limit their effectiveness. Do they make sense? is that the only way to do it? I don't know. But that was the intent: to put fear in players by making the zombies harder to take down even with all the fancy weapons and equipment.
I think the best way to play Dead Reign, in any setting, is for the group to be on board and willing to play a zombie game and accept all the conventions that such a game entails. Once everyone is up for a DR game, then the brain munching...errrr p.p.e. munching can begin!
And that's my 2 cents.
personally i thought of a few ways of doing mdc vs sdc zombies and still having the element of horror in it, sure it looks like it will be a easy fight, but once the weapons start going off more zombies show up and ammo starts running low and character get trapped in mdc armor a pile of zeds on top of you is going to freak you out some