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I have been a Palladium player since around '88 when the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles craze was sweeping the nation (After the Bomb being my favourite), and it seems a lot of the PB players have been a for a very long time. What I o not notice is a lot of younger gamers getting into it (at least not up here in Vancouver).

Has it been considered hammering out a fastplay intro to the Megaverse game system for distribution on Free RPG Day? I have a 15-year-old son who is nuts for RPGs and Xbox, but is unwilling to wade through a bunch of books to learn a new system (as he puts it, :I only have so many things I can do at once" as if he was an investment banker or something).

A quickplay intro to the system and, more importantly, to the totally addictive Rifts storyline would probably be just the thing to rope him in.

It would be a huge loss leader I know sending out free quickplay rules, but has the gang at Palladium considered this? Or has it even been done an being the thickie I am did I just not notice it?

It's my fault.

I told Kevin a couple years ago "Hey, wouldn't it be fabulous if we had some quick-play rules?" He said "Yeah, but no one has any time to write them." I said "I'll write them! I'm good at that writery stuff!" He said "I think the word you want is 'writing' but, sure, we need something to laugh at, and the Brandon Aten jokes are getting stale. Give it a go."

Then, more or less, my crayon broke. I've been writing almost nothing for a while now, and so it's my fault it isn't done yet.

Mark Hall wrote:It's my fault.

I told Kevin a couple years ago "Hey, wouldn't it be fabulous if we had some quick-play rules?" He said "Yeah, but no one has any time to write them." I said "I'll write them! I'm good at that writery stuff!" He said "I think the word you want is 'writing' but, sure, we need something to laugh at, and the Brandon Aten jokes are getting stale. Give it a go."

Then, more or less, my crayon broke. I've been writing almost nothing for a while now, and so it's my fault it isn't done yet.

Don't beat yourself up Mark.

You know, I believe that someone else may be very close to having a very swank pdf almost done that will fill this niche very nicely, for one or two of the major Palladium properties. It'd take some kind of madman to pull it off well, though. Maybe someone who's had some layout and design experience before...

I have been playing rifts since 93 / 94 and rpg'ing since 83 and a good quality charactor takes time. there is no game system out that does not require time as an investment and there is no short cut. some games like d&d or shadowrun have a very abridged charactor generation and it shows both in game play and charactor depth. the reason i enjoy palladium so much is because of the detail. a 15 second combat can last upto an hour or longer depending on the amount of players but in that 15 second combat it is more than john shoots bill. it is bill strikes, john uses a combo grab kick and pulling bill's sholder out and making that arm usless. i fear that the youth of today are too interested in instant gratification and that is our fault. we shouldn't have let the tv and the game cube rase our children.

Statistics are not personality. I don't know why there's an attachement to long, long, long character gen. Even my friends are attached to it.

Given how attached so many people are to character gen, why not just keep going with it? Make up new tables to roll on and stats to determine. Why go on to actually adventuring, when you look the most excited making up a new PC?

I think a further issue is that you could ask 'what is play' here and probably get a different responce from every single poster, compared to every single other poster.

I think a quick play would have to just decide on one particular type of play and go with it, rather than trying to accomidate eight million play styles. So whoever is writing it just choose a playstyle you enjoy and go with it. There probably wont be much support from posters though - alot (perhaps all) people basically invented the way they play, but they'll say no no, that's the proper way to play.

killhound wrote:I have been playing rifts since 93 / 94 and rpg'ing since 83 and a good quality charactor takes time. there is no game system out that does not require time as an investment and there is no short cut. some games like d&d or shadowrun have a very abridged charactor generation and it shows both in game play and charactor depth. the reason i enjoy palladium so much is because of the detail. a 15 second combat can last upto an hour or longer depending on the amount of players but in that 15 second combat it is more than john shoots bill. it is bill strikes, john uses a combo grab kick and pulling bill's sholder out and making that arm usless. i fear that the youth of today are too interested in instant gratification and that is our fault. we shouldn't have let the tv and the game cube rase our children.

Da, is pravda! The idea of pregen chara. isn't a bad one then later on if a chara dies make them roll up a new one more to their liking.
By then they should be so hooked that they'll do the work themselves.

My characters can take up to 2.5 hours to make. My son sat and participated in the whole thing(He's 8 and usually has no focus). Its part of the reason that the characters are so precious. I love it the way it is and as I have always said, "We either make them this way, or you're not in this one."

BY definition, most fastplay adventures include pregen characters that can be replaced by original characters if the players and DM actually own the core rules. Or at least I know that's how its done with Shadowrun and DnD4E. Its not a bad schtick either: a group of well balanced Pregens to showcase the system and provide good introductions to the game world. Were I doing it it would include a Power Armor Pilot, an Operator, a Rogue Scholar, a Juicer, a Crazy, a Borg, a Headhunter, a Burster, a Psi-stalker, a Dog-Boy, and a Ley Line Walker (with an appropriately succinct spell list - don't want to overwhelm a newbie) or maybe the Combat Mage. The majority of those would be two page sheets, with the Burster, the PA Pilot, and the Ley Line Walker being the exception. It gives enough choice so you get a good idea of the world, but not overwhelm a new player with exactly the one thing that folks complain about for Palladium - character creation.

Merc Town or Kingsdale is the perfect place to start the group out, and lead them into their first combat. A bar fight that showcases hand to hand combat broken up by whatever passes for law. Then a mysterious patron hires the characters to do a job and adventure ensues. Easy for a new GM to pick up and run, with hints through out in sidebars to help get through the game, and a well written overview of the system that can be referred to for the specific subjects that come up in the adventure.

Then load up the afterword with ways to continue the adventure, along with specific book purchases for that (the Merc Ops and Merc Adventures books come to mind). After all, it is basically one huge advertisement by design. A small comic at the front can help set the tone. Make it smaller than a rifter, but with enough good artwork to draw folks in, and not just recycled stuff either.

But I'm not working with a real page limit here, and not taking into account any budget at all really.

If I were writing it as a rifter submission, I'd start it off by describing that some goons with guns burst in and started shooting up the place (pulling a classic from books and movies). The question to each player is how do they go about defeating them? What's the cool way that player would defeat them? Big, cool laser rifle blasts? Magic protection then fire raw magic at them? Take over their minds? Or light the world on fire and burn 'em down with flame from your fingers?

How they do it determines what character they are - head hunter, LLW, mind melter, or burster. Build a character during play itself, rather than trying to make every single bit of character before you've risked a second of play.

Then I'd make the combat just involve a couple of attack rolls each, no attacks from the enemy, before the enemy flee in fear - if they hit and do enough damage, the enemy leave behind some nice gear because they are that affraid. If not, not. Also any misses would clip another goon for half damage or such, just so there are no wiff rolls. Roll to see if you do nothing has been stupid design for thirty years now.

In latter conflicts how to solve the conflict would be around what each player became - if a mage, which spell would defeat this problem?

That's my rough ideas, for now.

probably one of the things that i would consider most important if you're going to pregen characters for them, is to explicitly tell them "here's what you need to know to play this character."

for example, it's important to let a juicer know that they will probably never use regular dodge, but should use autododge. the power armor guy needs to know that repairing damage to the armor is going to be difficult to find facilities for, and expensive, as are mini-missile reloads. the magic character needs to know that his selection of nukes is not nearly as awesome as his selection of defensive, utility, and non-damaging-attack spells... and that most of them won't even outrange a pistol, even his good spells. this is especially true if you're going to include something like a rogue scholar. basically, a brief outline of what are the strong and weak points of the character. otherwise you're going to have the power armor pilot dominate the first combat, and then be completely useless while sucking up any financial awards through the rest of the game, and everyone will think the game is poorly designed.

Shark_Force wrote:probably one of the things that i would consider most important if you're going to pregen characters for them, is to explicitly tell them "here's what you need to know to play this character." <snip> Otherwise you're going to have the power armor pilot dominate the first combat, and then be completely useless while sucking up any financial awards through the rest of the game, and everyone will think the game is poorly designed.

I agree completely, and there would need to be a bit of background and how to play on all the pregens. And such matters would need to be brought up for the GM as well. He can't be expected to read every character sheet's bio and "how to play" section (good ones do, but we have to play to the lowest common denominator in design - if we didn't then Palladium wouldn't have to include their "this is a game" spiel in every book).

Are we really considering the idea that a fast play will involve the GM prepping the gaming material?

Were looking for new blood - people who've never played before. Learning to GM/learning to prep material cannot be done fast.

Noon wrote:Are we really considering the idea that a fast play will involve the GM prepping the gaming material?

Were looking for new blood - people who've never played before. Learning to GM/learning to prep material cannot be done fast.

i dunno. apparently someone figured it out before there was even such a thing as a roleplaying game in existence. can't be that impossible.

Pregens are the way to go for a free rpg day like suppliment, which is what was suggested by the OP. We're not talking an adventure to put in the Rifter, we're talking something to bring in new folks, showcasing the system, without giving it away, giving folks playable characters that are well grounded enough that even a vet could play them and not feel cheated, and give the characters and the GM a solid grounding in the world right after the first adventure.

And if you wanted to bring in non-pregens, then great, more power to you! But the design premise has to include them. We're not talkign about a quicker/lighter version of rifts (if you want that, play Shadow Chronicles ), we're talking about a intro adventure with the rules that can be given for low or no cost as a teaser to the wonder that is Rifts.

giving folks playable characters that are well grounded enough that even a vet could play them and not feel cheated

I don't understand 'cheated'? Even in the standard game, how well grounded the character is is up to the player to deliver. Same for a fast play, surely? The only person who could cheat them is themselves?

Noon wrote:

giving folks playable characters that are well grounded enough that even a vet could play them and not feel cheated

I don't understand 'cheated'? Even in the standard game, how well grounded the character is is up to the player to deliver. Same for a fast play, surely? The only person who could cheat them is themselves?

You misunderstand. by cheated I mean an experienced player looks at the sheet and goes "What? How could you miss what is quite simply the most basic of things for X character class?" I'm not sure exactly how to put this, but an example would be a power armor pilot without elite combat in the suit he actually has (unless there was a REAL good reason for that - and I can think of several) or something similar. When I say cheated, I don't mean dishonesty, I mean shorted or gypped.

So short answer is "yes it has been considered."

Okay, thanks.

things that i do to atract new players is to game in a game store. that works some times. i did have my 12 year old gaming with us for a while. then she discovered boys now the real fight is on . so go forth to the game stores where the kids are confused by the big squair things with cool pics on thim, invite them to game, give them your pregen charactors show them how wonderfull IIIMMMAAAGGGIIINNNAAATTTIIIOOONNN is and have fun once a kid experiences the game the way i do you will have a new player and most likely one that will stick around for a while. game presentation means alot how the game is first played matters just like a first impression if your too controling the prospect will think its the game. he most likely will not show up for game session #2 so if your a strict gm that will most likely be a negitive experience be flexable . explain the rules as quickle as you can enough to get there feet wet also let them know as they progress in the game you will be introducing more rules and more abilitys to them take it slow but give them there instant gratification.

i found a lot of good advise in the toyota customer relations manule go fig the rest is common sense

well we are trying to sell a game its kind of amazing the way a first impression works me i enjoy the detail of rifts. and its no easy task giving paper a personality its something that i have a hard time with even now after 20+ years of gaming. just keep in mind that any new player will be exactly that a new player and as long as you can keep from the monty hall dm sindrome or the opresive overlord dm in a world in whitch any thing is posable. rifts is the ANYTHING WORLD. happy gaming