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Hey, I was just wondering: Are these as good as it seems like they would be? They certainly seem to have the potential, but I've not heard anything about them, and I was seriously considering getting them.

I haven't read them, but according to some opinions I have read the first 3 Rifts novels are so-so and the Rifts 'Burbs Anthology is quite good (with some pearls in it). Hope this helps.

Kro-Mar was my favorite thing about the books.

I heard the novels were a chaotic, seething mess.

The initial three Rifts novels were...a little disjointed, but they were good reading. I haven't picked up the Burbs anthology yet.

I don't really mind multiple story arcs and lots of characters or that sort of thing really. But what exactly do you mean by poorly edited? That's a thought expressed by several posts, but what exactly does that mean?

It's been awhile since I read them as I lost two when I lent them to my brother. I really enjoyed them & once I have the two books I lost I'll read them again. They are a good read & I wish the author would right more stories basrd in RIFTS world & with the characters.

I wasn't terribly impressed by the first one....but that may have been a case of overly high expectations...

Shawn Merrow wrote:Kro-Mar was my favorite thing about the books.

Beware the wrath of GIBS!!!

anyways...I liked the novels quite a bit.

yes they were a bit disorganized and I think the official explanation was that the final proofread draft got nuked or something and it was either send something to the printers (which also was a new component and not the printers PB usually uses hence the glue issues) or send nothing and go into delays.

Maryann is usually the one to chime in on the defense of any thread that involves Chilson's novels.

There is also some storylines that were destined to go places but further novels were not ordered and thus went nowhere such as the Cyber-Knight and company going to Atlantis, The Disrupter (I think that was his name) in CHI-Town.

All in all...it was an enjoyable read and yeah there were some f-ups, but still enjoyable and still understandable.

As for the Burbs Anthology...haven't read them...unfortunately.

Crazy Lou wrote:I don't really mind multiple story arcs and lots of characters or that sort of thing really. But what exactly do you mean by poorly edited? That's a thought expressed by several posts, but what exactly does that mean?

The wrong version of the manuscript was sent to the printers. Some of errors are tolerable, some will really make you scratch your head. In one particular section, someone had done a "find & replace" with the words 'shadow' and 'Cyber-Knight'. So there's a sentence that reads something like "he looked at his Cyber-Knight on the wall." If memory serves, most of the editing mistakes are in the first novel; the second and third are much better. If you can get past that, and you're not looking for Shakespeare, they are an acceptable read.

The Burbs Anthology is quite excellent, and I highly recommend it. Given the various styles of the stories, there will certainly be one or two that you don't care for, but you are just as likely to find a few very entertaining.

I managed to get throught the first one.
I think one chapter was about a page long and ended... abruptly.
The rest looked like someone put the pages into a box, shuffled them up a bit, and bound it.
Oh, and of course funny stuff like "He dRifted along...", or whatever, where anything that has "rift" in a word has the "R" capitalized.

I think I'm going to follow through with my thought and get them.

One last question about them though: lots of characters/unwieldly number of characters, etc. Is this like more than 50? That's the most I can think of I've ever dealt with before, and didn't have much trouble then. Is it even more than that? I'd be really surprised it it was considering these books are less than a third the length of the Count of Monte Cristo.

No Juicer? No Dog Boy? Mind melter? Vagabond? City Rat? Operator? Those are some of my favorite classes too...

Gefreiter Müller wrote:And a City Rat, mainly in book two (Cara should qualify)

Yes Cara does qualify as a City Rat given her underworld connections, minor cybernetic pieces and weapons, and the gang of hack-rats she knows.

Also, there is a Maxi-woman/tattooed woman thrown in there for good measure though she doesn't really get fully explored and a gigante that helps out with the non-CS good guys.

Pox wrote:

Gefreiter Müller wrote:And a City Rat, mainly in book two (Cara should qualify)

Yes Cara does qualify as a City Rat given her underworld connections, minor cybernetic pieces and weapons, and the gang of hack-rats she knows.

Also, there is a Maxi-woman/tattooed woman thrown in there for good measure though she doesn't really get fully explored and a gigante that helps out with the non-CS good guys.

How fully explored would you want the t-babe to be?

Vrykolas2k wrote:

Pox wrote:

Gefreiter Müller wrote:And a City Rat, mainly in book two (Cara should qualify)

Yes Cara does qualify as a City Rat given her underworld connections, minor cybernetic pieces and weapons, and the gang of hack-rats she knows.

Also, there is a Maxi-woman/tattooed woman thrown in there for good measure though she doesn't really get fully explored and a gigante that helps out with the non-CS good guys.

How fully explored would you want the t-babe to be?

*head explodes from all the ban-able answers that just came to mind*

*picks himself back up and puts himself back together*

Well...she was just portrayed as being very focused on getting a 1 on 1 fight with one of the lt's (can't remember if it was Merrick or Sorenson)

Actually me writing this sentence reminded me of one of the common gripes about the novels from the military buffs/active members and that was the lack of discipline the CS troops exhibited in their protocol/chain of command with the usage of first names constantly even with higher-ranking officers.

I can't speak for the newer novels, but the first trilogy was terrible, and not just because of the poor binding and terrible proofreading. Even if you ignore that, what you're left with is amateur writing at around the level you'd expect to find on a fanfic website, and I seriously doubt the books would exist at all if it weren't for Siembieda deciding to publish them in-house rather than trying to get a deal with a traditional publisher.

Pox wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:

Pox wrote:

Gefreiter Müller wrote:And a City Rat, mainly in book two (Cara should qualify)

Yes Cara does qualify as a City Rat given her underworld connections, minor cybernetic pieces and weapons, and the gang of hack-rats she knows.

Also, there is a Maxi-woman/tattooed woman thrown in there for good measure though she doesn't really get fully explored and a gigante that helps out with the non-CS good guys.

How fully explored would you want the t-babe to be?

*head explodes from all the ban-able answers that just came to mind*

*picks himself back up and puts himself back together*

Well...she was just portrayed as being very focused on getting a 1 on 1 fight with one of the lt's (can't remember if it was Merrick or Sorenson)

Actually me writing this sentence reminded me of one of the common gripes about the novels from the military buffs/active members and that was the lack of discipline the CS troops exhibited in their protocol/chain of command with the usage of first names constantly even with higher-ranking officers.

As for the last paragraph, yes that level of familiarity amongst officers and enlisted is a major headache (which I'd forgotten about... it's been 10 years since I read the silly thing).

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Rallan wrote:I can't speak for the newer novels, but the first trilogy was terrible, and not just because of the poor binding and terrible proofreading. Even if you ignore that, what you're left with is amateur writing at around the level you'd expect to find on a fanfic website, and I seriously doubt the books would exist at all if it weren't for Siembieda deciding to publish them in-house rather than trying to get a deal with a traditional publisher.

I agree that the novel weren't good enough for traditional publishing,but they were great for Rifts.

No they weren't great for Rifts. Plenty of other RPG companies managed to do novel-writing right and go through traditional publishers and get professional-quality (if not always awesome-quality) authors. Palladium ended up self-publishing some poorly bound stuff with atrocious typesetting and no editing at all (especially not of the "I'm your editor and I'm gonna throw you some ideas about how to give this story a bit more zing" variety) and a fanfic writer. What could've been a nice little sideline and a showcase of their most popular setting ended up being an embarrassing piece of crap that looked and read like the sort of stuff churned out by scam publishers who prey on clueless amateurs, and which was so appalling that nobody except the zealous end of Palladium's fan base enjoyed it at all.

Rallan wrote:

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:

Rallan wrote:I can't speak for the newer novels, but the first trilogy was terrible, and not just because of the poor binding and terrible proofreading. Even if you ignore that, what you're left with is amateur writing at around the level you'd expect to find on a fanfic website, and I seriously doubt the books would exist at all if it weren't for Siembieda deciding to publish them in-house rather than trying to get a deal with a traditional publisher.

I agree that the novel weren't good enough for traditional publishing,but they were great for Rifts.

No they weren't great for Rifts. Plenty of other RPG companies managed to do novel-writing right and go through traditional publishers and get professional-quality (if not always awesome-quality) authors. Palladium ended up self-publishing some poorly bound stuff with atrocious typesetting and no editing at all (especially not of the "I'm your editor and I'm gonna throw you some ideas about how to give this story a bit more zing" variety) and a fanfic writer. What could've been a nice little sideline and a showcase of their most popular setting ended up being an embarrassing piece of crap that looked and read like the sort of stuff churned out by scam publishers who prey on clueless amateurs, and which was so appalling that nobody except the zealous end of Palladium's fan base enjoyed it at all.

Vrykolas2k approves of this message.

At least for the first one.
Never read the others, so I couldn't say one way or t'other.
Why didn't I read the others?
Because I read the first one.
It was too underwhelming.

Rifter6 wrote:Only novels I know of are Chilson's. What "newer novels" are there?

Rifts Anthology - Tales of the Chi-Town 'Burbs.

Rallan wrote:
nobody except the zealous end of Palladium's fan base enjoyed it at all.

This unfortunatly is true.

I recently got into a "Debat" with a friend of mine that says the reason alotta people hate Palladium products is because of the way its portrayed by alotta the fans of the system itself. (after he pointed out that you needed a binder Core book filled with your own hand written house rules just to make the system workable in the first place)

The novels are one aspect of Palladium that I have actively stayed away from due to everything I've heard about them. Step away from the fact that I am a palladium fan first off . Then I went and read some of the reviews of the novels and said to myself .. "Self" .. it this was any other system on the face of the planet .. and you read that many negative reviews about the books themselves .. would you HONESTLY .. want to read them ?" I said .. "Self .. no I would not"

So unfortunatly I have not read them. I have plans to add them to the collection if only to make sure that I have absolutly everything Palladium puts out to be sure .. but that does not mean I will read them unfortunatly.

Most people I have talked to have actually said "These novels are unworthy of the name of Rifts." And to me, that's really the issue. Novels about a gameworld should do justice to a portion of that gameworld. Rifts is so BIG that you can't cover all of it in one book, and I think that was the author's mistake. Little slices together that all look good make a beautiful portrait. Squeezing too much in makes things confusing and boring.

I think the short stories route as a start might be a better move.

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:
I never really thought one needed alot of extra rules to play the game.

Thats kewl. But every single GM I've talked to in the past year says they have litterally a near binder full of new rules or "House rules" due to stuff being so vague in Rifts.

I myself have alotta house rules as well.

KS himself even admitted to not playing Rifts as it is (he does not play the magic set up as it is in the books).

A binder? My house rules for Rifts are 3 pages.

My house rules for Hero System are 50. I love Rifts and I love Hero System. House rules are part of gaming. It's only when systems take away house rules that the game becomes dull and lifeless.

I certainly don't have a binder of house rules either. I actually haven't even written any of them down. They're just a part of the way I've run games. When a situation comes up which in the actual rules might be ambiguous, it's just a sort of "this is how it is" brief mention, and play continues. Anything that would contradict the original rules (or metaplot) I of course mention ahead of time, but there aren't that many of those, so it's no big deal.

It's only when systems take away house rules that the game becomes dull and lifeless.

Just out of curiosity: How can a system take away house rules? Isn't that how house rules work? That they can't be overriden by canon b/c they themselves superscede canon in that "house?"

D+D 4th edition is almost impossible to house rule.

sybert1138 wrote:The novels were classic pulp fiction. They are not a work of literary genius. If you want Homer, Shakespeare, Hawthorn... go read them. We can't sit here with straight faces ripping the editing of the novels because they were self published. It's assumed we all have read a few books... what Palladium book isn't filled with typos and contradictions. Enjoy the story/setting... that's what they're for...

"Classic" isn't a term I'd use. Although I will agree with pulp fiction, since simple plots, explosions as a substitute for depth, clunky prose, and one-dimensional characters are all hallmarks of the pulp magazines of the 20s and 30s.

Seriously, I'm not bagging them because they were action stories rather than something deep and meaningful, I'm bagging them because even by the standards of throwaway action SF they are bad. And I'm not bagging them because they were self published, I'm bagging them because they were so bad that there's no way they could've been anything but self-published, because the final draft would never make it past the editor's slushpile at a proper publishing house.

Balabanto wrote:D+D 4th edition is almost impossible to house rule.

not really. you just decide "we are/aren't using book X or feat Y or class Z" and you've already created a houserule. start inventing your own feats, magic items, or powers, and that's another house rule.
make a monster variant that is a little more or less powerful, that's a house rule.

it always bugs me when people say they only use RAW... because they don't. they just don't realise it yet. everyone houserules something, even if it's just deciding how to handle certain descriptions of what you do. all a houserule consists of is a rule that applies to that specific house, and it can range to allowing or disallowing certain official material to tearing apart the entire system and redoing it from basic principles. either way, that's a house rule.

Balabanto wrote:A binder? My house rules for Rifts are 3 pages.

My house rules for Hero System are 50. I love Rifts and I love Hero System. House rules are part of gaming. It's only when systems take away house rules that the game becomes dull and lifeless.

In your opinion.

sybert1138 wrote:All I seem to hear is "bad editing, bad editing, bad editing". Is their a legitimate reason, specifically, that everyone really hates this attempt at Rifts fiction? I have a degree in English, I've read greats, Classics, not so greats, and dreck. Yes.. the text are not without their problems, but Shakespeare was an unoriginal hack and no one is busting his but. So why is it that everyone really hates these novels... I don't buy into the bad editing excuse, if that were the case then they'd have to hate all Palladium products?!?

You've missed some of the specific examples already cited, but in short the wrong version of the manuscript was sent to the publisher. "Bad editting" is not an apt description. Imagine you were half-way through editting a hacked up version, and printed it. The first novel was far from a finished product, even by Palladium standards.

I have all three books. Editing aside I found his character development and interaction kind of weak. But his battles were well done.