Questions about the nature of magic...

[Lenwen]

1) - Is Magic a inherent part of the Palladium Megaverse, with out which the Palladium megaverse might not exsist ?

2) - The old ones (who are said to have created every magic) are they then by default .. Creators of the Megaverse ?

3) - If Magic was around prior to the Old Ones (is that even possible?) how then did the Old Ones invent it at all ?

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. I'll do my best to answer the questions. A few of these are touched on in the Palladium Fantasy main book, but I don't want to hunt through 300+ pages for the references, so I'll be going from memory (which means I could be mistaken).

1) Okay, I don't think this is ever answered anywhere. The power of ley lines and the power of magic are definitely connected, and also helps to shape the world. The weaker the ley lines get the more people drift away from magic and to technology (this is kind of suggested at least). Personally, I'd say it's connected to the life force of worlds. If the power of all the ley lines went out completely, the world would probably lose it's natural life (soil would grow barren, life couldn't grow, etc.), but that's just a personal belief. By the book all that would probably happen is that is that magic may become impossible and people would need to rely entirely on technology. Mind you, I address "ley lines" because tehy are the closest to a world's magic (and entire planets are much bigger than the small things that live on them, even all of the Old Ones all fit on the Palladium World). There are also space ley lines, etc.

2) No, they didn't. It's often believed and rumored, but for example it's said they didn't create dragons. The Old Ones may be responsible for some, or even a lot (may have even wiped out untold elements of the megaverse which existed before them, then recreated it to their liking). However, fairly sure they did not create the Megaverse (but may have taken credit for it). Of course, I'm not sure about the timeline but in Phase World there are "The First" who may or may not have come before the Old Ones (who also didn't create the universe).

3) They definitely didn't create it all. For instance, mentioned above they didn't create dragons, yet dragons are creatures of magic. Additionally, after the defeat of the Old Ones, there have been countless forms of magic (such as those in the Time of a Thousand Magicks). They may have created several forms, but if they truly did create all magic I don't think they'd have taught it to others (I just don't imagine they were that generous and sharing).

Just a few random thoughts. Some of it has a greater basis in the books than I can remember I'm fairly sure, but no doubt other parts have been added on by my imagination. Hopefully some of that helps, though as I typed that I have started to wonder how coherent and/or relevant any of that is. Anyways, that should be all for now. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys to all.

[Library Ogre]

1) - Is Magic a inherent part of the Palladium Megaverse, with out which the Palladium megaverse might not exsist ?

2) - The old ones (who are said to have created every magic) are they then by default .. Creators of the Megaverse ?

3) - If Magic was around prior to the Old Ones (is that even possible?) how then did the Old Ones invent it at all ?

The essential answer to all of these is "Answer unclear, try again later."

None of these have definite canonical answers, just speculation. My take is that "magic" is an inherent part of the Megaverse in that PPE is a natural part of the universe. While the Old Ones created a great number of magics, it's on par with people creating pendulum clocks... the Old Ones took a natural energy and created applications for it, just like taking the natural ability of pendulums to swing was used by clockmakers to create well-timed clocks. So, "magic" predated the Old Ones (maybe), but they invented the technologies to take advantage of it.

[Killer Cyborg]

1) - Is Magic a inherent part of the Palladium Megaverse, with out which the Palladium megaverse might not exsist ?

Unknown.

2) - The old ones (who are said to have created every magic) are they then by default .. Creators of the Megaverse ?

No. Not even if the rumors are true.

3) - If Magic was around prior to the Old Ones (is that even possible?) how then did the Old Ones invent it at all ?

Both cannot be true, barring time travel.

[tuvermage]

1) - Is Magic a inherent part of the Palladium Megaverse, with out which the Palladium megaverse might not exsist ?

Magic is a fundamental force in the Megaverse, it is like gravity, weak nuclear forces, strong nuclear forces and electromagnetism. where ever there is life there is magic and where ever magic there is life much like where ever there is electricity there is magnetism and where ever there is magnetism there is electricity

2) - The old ones (who are said to have created every magic) are they then by default .. Creators of the Megaverse ?

the old ones did not invent magic, they may have figured out ways to harnessing it, they may have come up with the spells the most people now use, but magic existed before the spells, the spells are just a way for someone to focus the magical energies. As stated in the book there are many versions of the same spell, it's also been suggested in the book the old ones just claimed the credit for other people's work. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but they did not invent magic

3) - If Magic was around prior to the Old Ones (is that even possible?) how then did the Old Ones invent it at all ?

As stated above, the old ones love to claim credit for the work others did and who could have argued it with them? it's my belief that the old ones and others around the beginning found ways of controlling magic (spells) but the magic existed prior to spells. Electricity existed in the universe only before man came around, Man just found ways to control and channel electricity, but if you ask most will say man invented electricity, when discovered is the right work.

[drewkitty ~..~]

1 yes, the parts that do not have magic classes have ether lost the knowledge of how to make magic, or the PPE levels are so low that there is not enouph to work with.

2 no, but AIs do have the ability to exist in multiple dimentions at the same time.

3 they didn't

[JuliusCreed]

1) - Is Magic a inherent part of the Palladium Megaverse, with out which the Palladium megaverse might not exsist ?

Yes it absolutely is. Magic is an energy form whose basis lies in living things, hence it being measured in PPE, an energy that exists in all living creatures. Where there is life, there is Magic.

2) - The old ones (who are said to have created every magic) are they then by default .. Creators of the Megaverse ?

No. Maybe creators/shapers of major portions of the Megaverse, particularly in Palladum Fantasy realms. But not the entire Megaverse. As previoiusly pointed out, there are also "The First" from Phase World, not to mention the supposed existance of the Cosmic Forge as well as potentially thousands or more 'creation myths' when it comes to how the Megaverse was created. Truth be told, you want to know who REALLY created the Megaverse?

Spoiler:

Gamers!!

3) - If Magic was around prior to the Old Ones (is that even possible?) how then did the Old Ones invent it at all ?

They didn't. Magic has existed since before the concept of time. The Old Ones are merely responsible for shaping its energies into many (but not ALL) of its current forms, many of which are probably still as yet undiscovered because the secrets of their workings slumber with them, waiting to be awakened with them to be unleashed upon the megaverse once again.

[Cinos]

None of these questions have real answers beyond the opinion of each GM / Group.

My opinion on the matter is this (Keeping in mind I play Palladium Fantasy as a closed environment, disregarding the rest of the so called megaverse).

The old ones appeared at roughly the same time, before the creation of worlds and things as concepts relate-able in human thought, existing more as abstracts than living things. Over time they created things, worlds and governing laws to accompy them. Invoking these laws in a correct manner produces effects that would ordinarily go against the grain of normalcy as seen by most mortal beings, called Magic. In this take the answers would be Yes (I see it as the governing structure of things to start with); Yes and; Nothing was before them, but 'magic' appeared the same time they did (which would be the start of everything).

[cornholioprime]

1) - Is Magic a inherent part of the Palladium Megaverse, with out which the Palladium megaverse might not exsist ?

Magic is one of the FORCES present in the Palladium Megaverse, and exists right alongside Physics and Chi.

There's no evidence whatsoever that ANY of the forces present in the Palladium Universe are "essential" to either the creation, the maintenance, or even the continued existence of the Megaverse.

2) - The old ones (who are said to have created every magic) are they then by default .. Creators of the Megaverse ?

No.

They might have eternally preexisted, and they might be responsible for the creation of the dimension in which the world of Palladium is located (they are almost certainly responsible for the creation of Palladium's mirror dimension of Hades, if not also Dyval, as well as the Demons and Deevils that inhabit those two places), but they are believed to have come from somewhere else, found the world of Palladium to be a wonderful 'playground' (at one point, Palladium was said to have even higher levels of magical energy than does Rifts Earth), and settled down there for a few eons.

3) - If Magic was around prior to the Old Ones (is that even possible?) how then did the Old Ones invent it at all ?

Magical energy and the science of Magic are two entirely different things.

The Old Ones are frequently credited to be the first beings in the Megaverse to have developed the "science" or methodology of manipulating, harnessing, and controlling the energy.

[Armorlord]

1) It is an inherent part of many dimensions of the Megaverse, but not a vital component as there are also dimensions where magic is a foreign element which can be exceedingly difficult to preform.

2) They created magical styles and spells, but are not the creators of magic itself, nor of the Megaverse.

3) Same as anyone invents spells, styles, and schools of thought. Though admittedly, they invented things that others have not copied and even now their names are words of power across dimensions. Though similar can be said of the Time of a Thousand Magics on the Palladium World, and of powerful gods.

[gaaahhhh]

Truth be told, you want to know who REALLY created the Megaverse?

Floopers.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Truth be told, you want to know who REALLY created the Megaverse?

Floopers.

Nope.
It was a guy named Kevin Siembieda

[Armorlord]

I'm going to go with Flooper gamers.

[JuliusCreed]

Kevin Siembieda, the Flooper gamer! Yaaaaayyyyyyy!!

[Prince Artemis]

AH! Necro topic! Kill it with fire!