Hypothetical Senario: Glitter Boy vs. Three SAMAS

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is a deritive of an argument I had with a friend a while ago. Basically, the question was: How many Classic-Style SAMAS would it take to swarm and kill a lone Glitter Boy.

Obviously, Two or Three solid hits from a glitter boy can kill a SAMAS, or even one Nat 20 wiht a high damage roll.

On the other hand, the SAMAS can swarm and flank him, and the GB cannot dodge effectively.

My friend argued that with just a bit of luck the Glitter Boy can pick off the three before his armor is completely drained. I think that the odds of them standing still trading blows is a bit silly.

So here's the Senario: One Glitter Boy gets into a fight with a squad of 3 SAMAS in the ruins of Old Detroid. There's plenty of cover, but only parts of it Mega Damage. And to make things a little more interesting, one of the SAMAS is suffering from a malfunction in it's jet pack and cannot fly.

All 4 suits have full MDC and are fully loaded.

[csbioborg]

assuming all 4 piliots have power armor elite the samas and work together they win every time

the samas have to many attacks and missiles

the GB gets picked a part

[Mack]

We play tested this, oh... 18 years ago. (Yeesh, that make me feel old.)

The SAMAS won. The GB tried called-shots to the Sam's head as they approached, but missed. They closed to hand-to-hand range, and would continually body-block the GB to the ground, then shoot him as he tried to get up. They also used called-shots to the hand that stabilizes the Boom Gun (we allowed a called-burst).

Note--this was long enough ago, and prior to a lot of the revisions to Rifts, that the outcome might be slightly different now.

[Nekira Sudacne]

We play tested this, oh... 18 years ago. (Yeesh, that make me feel old.)

The SAMAS won. The GB tried called-shots to the Sam's head as they approached, but missed. They closed to hand-to-hand range, and would continually body-block the GB to the ground, then shoot him as he tried to get up. They also used called-shots to the hand that stabilizes the Boom Gun (we allowed a called-burst).

Note--this was long enough ago, and prior to a lot of the revisions to Rifts, that the outcome might be slightly different now.

Out of curiosity, Why didn't the GB just use the stabalization system to stop from going down?

[Natasha]

We play tested this, oh... 18 years ago. (Yeesh, that make me feel old.)

The SAMAS won. The GB tried called-shots to the Sam's head as they approached, but missed. They closed to hand-to-hand range, and would continually body-block the GB to the ground, then shoot him as he tried to get up. They also used called-shots to the hand that stabilizes the Boom Gun (we allowed a called-burst).

Note--this was long enough ago, and prior to a lot of the revisions to Rifts, that the outcome might be slightly different now.

Out of curiosity, Why didn't the GB just use the stabalization system to stop from going down?

I think body blocks wouldn't take down a GB with his pylons down.

It could depend on the the direction of the attack and how the pylons work. I don't remember for now but it's possible that an attack from behind or even from the side could knock him over rather easily. The pylons are to absorb recoil, a force from any other direction might not be impeded whatsoever.

[Nekira Sudacne]

We play tested this, oh... 18 years ago. (Yeesh, that make me feel old.)

The SAMAS won. The GB tried called-shots to the Sam's head as they approached, but missed. They closed to hand-to-hand range, and would continually body-block the GB to the ground, then shoot him as he tried to get up. They also used called-shots to the hand that stabilizes the Boom Gun (we allowed a called-burst).

Note--this was long enough ago, and prior to a lot of the revisions to Rifts, that the outcome might be slightly different now.

Out of curiosity, Why didn't the GB just use the stabalization system to stop from going down?

I think body blocks wouldn't take down a GB with his pylons down.

It could depend on the the direction of the attack and how the pylons work. I don't remember for now but it's possible that an attack from behind or even from the side could knock him over rather easily. The pylons are to absorb recoil, a force from any other direction might not be impeded whatsoever.

Pylons go straight down. Not directionally. That stabalizes regardless of which direction the force comes from.

[Natasha]

Pylons go straight down. Not directionally. That stabalizes regardless of which direction the force comes from.

How deep do they go into the ground and how far up into his "body"?

[Mack]

We play tested this, oh... 18 years ago. (Yeesh, that make me feel old.)

The SAMAS won. The GB tried called-shots to the Sam's head as they approached, but missed. They closed to hand-to-hand range, and would continually body-block the GB to the ground, then shoot him as he tried to get up. They also used called-shots to the hand that stabilizes the Boom Gun (we allowed a called-burst).

Note--this was long enough ago, and prior to a lot of the revisions to Rifts, that the outcome might be slightly different now.

Out of curiosity, Why didn't the GB just use the stabalization system to stop from going down?

I forget the ruling we had at the time. It was either: A) the GB would still bend over backwards at the knees, or B) the pylons automatically deploy/retract with each shot. Was probably A).

Anyway, the overall point was that it's to the Sam's advantage to go to H-to-H range.

[Subjugator]

The three SAMAS have a near 100% chance of defeating a Glitter Boy.

1. They have mini-missiles.
2. They are faster.
3. They can work together.
4. They can destroy the Boom Gun in nothing flat.

/Sub

[Danger]

If the Glitterboy wins initiative (in the first round), I think it's a close fight. They can easily dispatch a single Samas in the first round, and possibly two if he rolls well.

[Crazy Lou]

The three SAMAS have a near 100% chance of defeating a Glitter Boy.

1. They have mini-missiles.
2. They are faster.
3. They can work together.
4. They can destroy the Boom Gun in nothing flat.

/Sub

The only way to destory the Boom-Gun is to ingauge the GB in hand to hand combat. In melee the sames do have an advantage. Using the game rules to SAMAS cannot drestoy the Boom-Gun at range, no called shots with the rail-gun, they could do it with the MM, but it's not garenteed to work.

Shooting a volley of 4+ missiles at the boom gun repeatedly would do it no problem. Plus, even if the volley didn't hit the boom gun it self, the missiles have a blast radius, so hitting the main body would still result in 1/2 damage to the boom gun per hit anyway, as long as it was a hit to the front. Of course a hit on the back could destroy the belt feed and ammo drum (are they exposed and given MDC values? I can't remember but think that at least the ammo drum is), which would have less MDC anyway and would just as effectively disable the gun.

[Lenwen]

This is a deritive of an argument I had with a friend a while ago. Basically, the question was: How many Classic-Style SAMAS would it take to swarm and kill a lone Glitter Boy.

Obviously, Two or Three solid hits from a glitter boy can kill a SAMAS, or even one Nat 20 wiht a high damage roll.

On the other hand, the SAMAS can swarm and flank him, and the GB cannot dodge effectively.

My friend argued that with just a bit of luck the Glitter Boy can pick off the three before his armor is completely drained. I think that the odds of them standing still trading blows is a bit silly.

So here's the Senario: One Glitter Boy gets into a fight with a squad of 3 SAMAS in the ruins of Old Detroid. There's plenty of cover, but only parts of it Mega Damage. And to make things a little more interesting, one of the SAMAS is suffering from a malfunction in it's jet pack and cannot fly.

All 4 suits have full MDC and are fully loaded.

I have a couple of questions about this first if I may ?

Who spots who first ?
Are all 3 Samas flying in tandem ?
Which style of Samas ?

[Mack]

Shooting a volley of 4+ missiles at the boom gun repeatedly would do it no problem.

I believe we're using the standard "old" SAMAS, which only has a 2 mini-missile payload. 4+ volley's are not possible.

Plus, even if the volley didn't hit the boom gun it self, the missiles have a blast radius, so hitting the main body would still result in 1/2 damage to the boom gun per hit anyway, as long as it was a hit to the front.

Not according to the rules. Realistic or not, the rules state that only the main body takes damage from the blast. The arms, legs, Boom Gun, etc, do not take half damage.

Of course a hit on the back could destroy the belt feed and ammo drum (are they exposed and given MDC values? I can't remember but think that at least the ammo drum is), which would have less MDC anyway and would just as effectively disable the gun.

That might work, depending on the GM. Some might say that the Boom Gun still has a handful of shots available, others might completely disable the gun. GM's call.

[Mack]

This is a deritive of an argument I had with a friend a while ago. Basically, the question was: How many Classic-Style SAMAS would it take to swarm and kill a lone Glitter Boy.

Obviously, Two or Three solid hits from a glitter boy can kill a SAMAS, or even one Nat 20 wiht a high damage roll.

On the other hand, the SAMAS can swarm and flank him, and the GB cannot dodge effectively.

My friend argued that with just a bit of luck the Glitter Boy can pick off the three before his armor is completely drained. I think that the odds of them standing still trading blows is a bit silly.

So here's the Senario: One Glitter Boy gets into a fight with a squad of 3 SAMAS in the ruins of Old Detroid. There's plenty of cover, but only parts of it Mega Damage. And to make things a little more interesting, one of the SAMAS is suffering from a malfunction in it's jet pack and cannot fly.

All 4 suits have full MDC and are fully loaded.

I have a couple of questions about this first if I may ?

Who spots who first ?
Are all 3 Samas flying in tandem ?
Which style of Samas ?

Lenwen, two of your three questions are answered in what you quoted.

[Subjugator]

The only way to destory the Boom-Gun is to ingauge the GB in hand to hand combat. In melee the sames do have an advantage. Using the game rules to SAMAS cannot drestoy the Boom-Gun at range, no called shots with the rail-gun, they could do it with the MM, but it's not garenteed to work.

They can't make called shots with bursts, but they can with the mini missiles (MMs).

Discounting crits, the average damage from a plasma MM is 35. They have two MMs each. The average damage for six MMs is 210. The MDC for a Boom Gun is 175.

The Boom Gun will be destroyed by the SAMs WELL over 50% of the time. Even if four of them did average damage and two did minimum damage, it'd still be close enough to destroyed for the SAMs to finish it off with single shots from their rail guns (and yes, you can do a called shot with the rail gun, you just can't do it in a burst). About the only time that they wouldn't be able to rationally destroy the Boom Gun is when they did minimum damage with all of their MMs.

Even then though, the half damage rule would still be damaging the main body of the GB. Sure, he does a ton of damage (average of 105 per shot), but they have a similar damage amount (average of 25 per shot, per SAM after the MMs are exhausted). Even though the GB does more damage, it is slow and when a SAM is sufficiently injured it can fly off to get more MMs and reload or be repaired. It can also body block it or engage in hand to hand combat to eliminate the power of the Boom Gun. At that point, it's anybody's game.

/Sub

[Mack]

They can't make called shots with bursts, but they can with the mini missiles (MMs).

Discounting crits, the average damage from a plasma MM is 35. They have two MMs each. The average damage for six MMs is 210. The MDC for a Boom Gun is 175.

The Boom Gun will be destroyed by the SAMs WELL over 50% of the time. Even if four of them did average damage and two did minimum damage, it'd still be close enough to destroyed for the SAMs to finish it off with single shots from their rail guns (and yes, you can do a called shot with the rail gun, you just can't do it in a burst). About the only time that they wouldn't be able to rationally destroy the Boom Gun is when they did minimum damage with all of their MMs.

You assume that all 6 missles hit the Boom Gun. That requires a called shot, from a moving platfrom (I assume the SAMAS isn't standing still), plus whatever penalty the GM assigns for trying to hit the Boom Gun.

A more reasonable guess would be to say that 4 out of 6 missles hit.

[rat_bastard]

Depends on how long the boom gun survives.

The glitter person can change the battlefield by blowing off the wings of the SAMAS but if the Sams manage to destroy the boom gun then nothing is really going to help the glitter person.

[Mack]

Additional thought: The GB will have to decide how he will shoot the Sam's, in particular how many actions per shot he is willing to expend.
--An aimed-called shot to the Sam's head will take it out in a single hit (on average) but it's a gamble. If he fails, he's consumed 3 of his precious actions with no result.
--Alternatively, he could do a series of quick shots (1 per action) and wear down the Sam's main body, and minimize the impact of a missed shot. Three hits would be enough (on average) to take down a single Sam. However, this approach gives the Sam's more time to return fire.
--Or there's a middle ground of using a called shot (not aimed) to the head that consumes 2 actions per shot. While the GB loses some bonuses, it still gives a good chance of eliminating a Sam in a single attack.

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is a deritive of an argument I had with a friend a while ago. Basically, the question was: How many Classic-Style SAMAS would it take to swarm and kill a lone Glitter Boy.

Obviously, Two or Three solid hits from a glitter boy can kill a SAMAS, or even one Nat 20 wiht a high damage roll.

On the other hand, the SAMAS can swarm and flank him, and the GB cannot dodge effectively.

My friend argued that with just a bit of luck the Glitter Boy can pick off the three before his armor is completely drained. I think that the odds of them standing still trading blows is a bit silly.

So here's the Senario: One Glitter Boy gets into a fight with a squad of 3 SAMAS in the ruins of Old Detroid. There's plenty of cover, but only parts of it Mega Damage. And to make things a little more interesting, one of the SAMAS is suffering from a malfunction in it's jet pack and cannot fly.

All 4 suits have full MDC and are fully loaded.

I have a couple of questions about this first if I may ?

Who spots who first ?

They both spot each-other on Radar about 5 miles out.

Are all 3 Samas flying in tandem ?

That's the question i'm posing you guys. what tactics and stratagies would you employ to try to win. You use whichever method you think has the greatest odds of success.

Which style of Samas ?

That I already Said. the Old style of SAMAS, as in the origional before any others were ever printed?

[Lenwen]

I'd say all 3 of the Samas are as near each other as possible due to the 1 samas malfunctioning Jet pack.

I'd have the 3 samas as the following, 2 of the sams would be flying circling around the last samas who is using the jets when able to tho not to fly at hight, but rather at speed low ground style.

All 4 combatents spot each other 5 miles out which grants a HUGE bonas to fire for the Glitter Boy. So the GB would assume as best defensive cover as possible.

If I were the GB, I'd place several shots near the front of the 3 samas to try to make them think thier being fired on from behind as well. (thus forcing them to spend 1 action trying to figure out just which way thier getting attacked from)

As thier using said action to find out which way thier getting attacked from that would enable a Perfect time for a called shot. Called shot right at the head of one of the samas would drop that samas and keep them outta the fight. (But you still have to roll to strike)

Furthering this theory along, I'd then see what they did, seperate and swarm, or use tactical firing manuver's to try to outflank me, or just shoot thier mini-missles.

If the Samas launched a granade at the GB (me) I'd simply roll to dodge the damage. (each sam only has 2 mini-missles)

I'd then just take another called shot (none called) at the other flying samas. (Trying to down the samas asap, thus negating any and all tactical advantage from thier PA, over mine (GB)

At this point in time, either the sams, will have gotten within range of thier rail guns or well past the range of thier weapons, either way they are not shooting at you with thier rail guns.

I'd make a tactical withdraw, meaning I'd run stop fire a shot, continue the back stepping, taking shots at this time and making sure they get to within the range that I wanted them to be in. (as close as possible with out being close enough to engauge me in H2H.)

After they are in the range I want them to be in I'd start shooting as fast as possible at 1 individual target. (using up all attacks as needed on the closest individual target).

GB's have the armor to withstand the first round of damage easily even if all 3 samas were hard hitters.

After taking out 1 of the Samas I'd pick it up an use it as a shield for my main body.(being held by the none weapon GB Hand)

Then I'd concentrate all the fire power on another Samas and do the same till either they destroyed the GB or I destroyed them.

[runebeo]

Theses Samas can own a GB for a few reasons.
1. GB cannot dodge with pylons deployed and that makes very easy to get behind.
2. Samas get a ton of dodge bonuses for flying at high speed, plus the GB has the penalty for hitting a moving target.
3. If the Samas can ram the GB he can break the pylons making the GB's boomgun flip it for a loop every time it fires and lose a few actions to recover from the knockdown. In the last book of the original Rifts novels this was the tactic a CS pilot used to cripple a GB in combat.
4. Hit & run tactics, a few pot shots in the back from behind cover and flee to setup at a different location can ensure the GB never gets a clear shot in.
5. If you use the GI Joe rule the Samas pilot may be able to fight on even after their power is destroyed. Its not much but may add in a few extra laser pistol blasts even at half damage that adds up, especially if the rule is used again for the pilots body armor as well.

[Noon]

Notice how people can really believe in either result, fully and utterly?

Years ago I had the ephany that how you really, really believe things would factually go, is just your brain making up myths.

Enjoy the myth making, certainly, but don't treat it as anything worth a damn in terms of fact.

[jedi078]

It's going to depend on the dice, and tactics. If the GB pilot plays it smart, and uses the available cover he/she has a chance at coming out on top. Likewise if the SAMAS pilots were smart, they’d simply shadow the GB and then call in a bomber to carpet bomb the area, or call in long range missile artillery.

If my 5th level GB pilot was in this scenario I know what I would do.

[grandmaster z0b]

I think most of this is in the dice.

If the Glitterboy wins initiative and rolls a 20 attack and 13-18 damage (260 - 360 MD) that's one SAMAS dead in one attack. I know that's not likely to happen but it shows what can happen.

From 5 miles away the Glitterboy has an advantage if one SAMAS can't fly, the mini missile has a range of 1 mile and the boomgun has a range of 2. Therefore the GB should get at least one shot off before the others can get in range. I understand that the Sams could use the terrain as cover to get in range but the GB could also try and get a advantageous position; preferably an elevated position with good cover where it could snipe the approaching Sams.

It also depends on how the GM calls certain situations, some have said that a GB can't dodge with the pylons in place, but I thought the pylons automatically engaged when the trigger is pulled. The only thing the GB can't do is run and shoot at the same time, or crouch/kneel.

There are just too many variables to call it one way or the other; the call of the dice, the call of the GM and what tactics are used.

[Mack]

If the Glitterboy wins initiative and rolls a 20 attack and 13-18 damage (260 - 360 MD) that's one SAMAS dead in one attack. I know that's not likely to happen but it shows what can happen.

Fun with numbers!
--1 in 20 chance of a Nat 20, or 5%.
--56 in 216 chance of rolling 13+ on 3D6, or about a 26% chance.
--5% multiplied by 26% gives a combined probability of 1.3%.

So we can define "unlikely" as about a 1.3% chance of occuring.

[Subjugator]

Theses Samas can own a GB for a few reasons.
1. GB cannot dodge with pylons deployed and that makes very easy to get behind.

It can't, but what makes you think they stay deployed after the gun has gone off? All he has to do is fire, *boom*, then the pylons are back out of the ground. Elapsed time of pylons being in the ground < 1 second.

/Sub

[Danger]

Assuming that all combatants are level 1, let's look at some basic game mechanics in this:

The Glitterboy has 9 Attacks per round, versus the 6 Attacks per round of the Samas Pilots. So that's 9 Attacks VS 18 Attacks.

The Glitterboy has 880 MDC vs the 250 apiece of the Samas. That's 880 VS 750.

The Glitterboy's Boom Guns does 3d6x10 for an average of 100 MDC per shot, the Samas Rail Gun does 1d4x10 for an average of 20 per shot, or their standard missiles do 1d6x10 (at best) for an average of 30 per shot. That's 900 MDC VS 480 MDC in the first round (assuming the Samas expend their missiles - Remember they only have 2 each). After that, it drops to 900 MDC VS 360 MDC per round. At this rate, it would take all three Samas almost 3 full Rounds (assuming they survive that long ) to finish off the Glitterboy. The three round matchup would look like this: 2700 MDC VS 1200 MDC.

The Glitterboy can dodge. I see no statements of him being unable to dodge at ANY point in R:UE. If such a statement exists, please post the Page No.

If the Samas are foolish enough to make called shots (more on that later), the Glitterboy can also Roll with the explosions of the missiles, thus reducing their damage to half, from 30 MDC on average to 15, and ensuring his boom gun survives even longer.

The Samas, making called shots to try to neutralize the Boom Gun are reducing their chances to hit to 35%. The Glitterboy, firing at the Main Body of the Samas, has an 80% chance to hit. (Note: I am not including bonuses, penalties, or dodging from either party in this. This is an approximation.)

With initiative, it is entirely possible for the Glitterboy to destroy all three Samas power armors in a single round.

After looking at the numbers, I'm not convinced the Samas have a chance.

[grandmaster z0b]

If the Glitterboy wins initiative and rolls a 20 attack and 13-18 damage (260 - 360 MD) that's one SAMAS dead in one attack. I know that's not likely to happen but it shows what can happen.

Fun with numbers!
--1 in 20 chance of a Nat 20, or 5%.
--56 in 216 chance of rolling 13+ on 3D6, or about a 26% chance.
--5% multiplied by 26% gives a combined probability of 1.3%.

So we can define "unlikely" as about a 1.3% chance of occuring.

Yeah, exactly; not likely to happen but it does happen sometimes and it shows what an effect a lucky dice roll can make. Of course one of the Sams could win initiative and roll 20 on an attack with 2 two plasma mini missiles and roll 9 or above, (180 damage) direct to the Boomgun. There's 37.5% chance of rolling over 9 on a 2d6, 5% x 37.5% = 1.3885 %. In that scenario you're actually better off using armour piercing mini missiles as you have a 37.5% chance of rolling 6 or above on 2d4 (AP MMs do damage x3 on a 20, so 6 = 60 MD x 3 = 180 MD) and 37.5% multiplied by 5% = 1.875% probability.

In any case there's a 50% chance of rolling 11 or above damage for each successful attack from the BoomGun. That's 110 damage, close to half of each Sams MDC. The Sams have a 50% chance of rolling 3 or above (30 MD) or if they fire a plasma grenade they have a 50% chance of rolling 4 or above (40MD). So they better hope they get the BoomGun with the mini-missiles.

The real advantage the Sams have is the +5 they get to dodge whilst flying, however one of them doesn't even have that advantage.

[jedi078]

Theses Samas can own a GB for a few reasons.
1. GB cannot dodge with pylons deployed and that makes very easy to get behind.

It can't, but what makes you think they stay deployed after the gun has gone off? All he has to do is fire, *boom*, then the pylons are back out of the ground. Elapsed time of pylons being in the ground < 1 second.

/Sub

The only time a GB would not be able to dodge is the very same action it is firing the boom gun.

[Subjugator]

Assuming that all combatants are level 1, let's look at some basic game mechanics in this:

The Glitterboy has 9 Attacks per round, versus the 6 Attacks per round of the Samas Pilots. So that's 9 Attacks VS 18 Attacks.

Wrong.

The Glitter Boy has 7 attacks per round, maximum. That assumes H2H Martial Arts, boxing, and RPA Elite with the GB. The SAMs have a maximum of 6 attacks per round. This assumes H2H Martial Arts, boxing, and RPA Elite with the SAM.

The Glitterboy has 880 MDC vs the 250 apiece of the Samas. That's 880 VS 750.

Wrong. The Glitter Boy has 770 MDC. I have no idea where you got the idea that it has 880, but it doesn't. Page 71 of Rifts: Ultimate Edition confirms this.

The Glitterboy's Boom Guns does 3d6x10 for an average of 100 MDC per shot

Actual average is 105 MDC per shot.

the Samas Rail Gun does 1d4x10 for an average of 20 per shot

Actual average is 25 per shot. Those were mentioned because this offsets the damage done by the Glitter Boy in a minor fashion (5% of the original amount stated for the total increase) but in a significant fashion for the SAMAS rail gun (25% of the original amount stated for the total increase).

or their standard missiles do 1d6x10 (at best) for an average of 30 per shot.

Actual average is 35 per shot.

That's 900 MDC VS 480 MDC in the first round (assuming the Samas expend their missiles - Remember they only have 2 each). After that, it drops to 900 MDC VS 360 MDC per round. At this rate, it would take all three Samas almost 3 full Rounds (assuming they survive that long ) to finish off the Glitterboy. The three round matchup would look like this: 2700 MDC VS 1200 MDC.

Wrong.

Assuming no dodging takes place and all attacks hit for average damage, it's 735 damage by the GB compared to 510 by the SAMs.

It adds up as follows:

Glitter Boy:
7 attacks at 105 MD per attack (735 MD)

SAMAS:
6 attacks using mini-missiles at 35 per attack (210 MD)
12 attacks using rail guns at 25 per attack (300 MD)

Also, this scenario assumes no intelligence on the part of the SAMAS pilots.

See, the SAMs have a lot better facility to dodge, seeing as they are at +5 to dodge in flight with an aggregate of 18 attacks between them, whereas the GB has only +2 to dodge and has a total of 7 attacks to use. They could dodge for every single attack the GB made, make it more than half the time (assuming average rolls they have better bonuses to dodge than the GB gets to attack by default), and STILL attack him 11 times per round. For him to do a called shot to their head, he'd end up using two or three attacks doing so and they'd still have a good chance of dodging. Especially considering that since they are zig-zagging and otherwise taking evasive action and they are travelling at 300mph, he is at -7 to strike them.

Total penalty for him to strike them when they are dodging, weaving, travelling at 300mph, AND including his bonus to strike for being a GB pilot: -5

That means that for him to actually hit them, BEFORE they try and dodge, he needs a natural roll of 13 or higher (all ranged attacks require a roll of 8 to strike, +2 for him having RPA: Elite - Glitter Boy (total: 6), -6 for them moving at 300mph (total: 12), -1 for them taking evasive action ((total: 13) source: RUE page 361)).

For them to dodge if he hits them with a 13, they would need to roll a natural 8 or better (base roll is 13, -5 for their bonus to dodge when flying brings it to an 8 (source: RUE page 352)). This continues on a linear basis as the numbers go higher, with the notable exception being a natural 20, which can only be beaten by a natural 20. Despite that, his natural 19 could be beaten by a natural 14. That gives the SAMAS a gross advantage when dodging fire from the GB.

Also note that no penalty to dodging gunfire applies past the 50' mark (source: RUE page 361).

The Glitterboy can dodge. I see no statements of him being unable to dodge at ANY point in R:UE. If such a statement exists, please post the Page No.

I agree that he can dodge, but time is NOT on his side in this fight. For him to dodge would be foolishness. The only way he'll survive is to end this fight as quickly as possible. They are quite effective when dodging, only using up 1/18 of their attack power in so doing. He loses 1/7 of his attack power every time he dodges.

If the Samas are foolish enough to make called shots (more on that later), the Glitterboy can also Roll with the explosions of the missiles, thus reducing their damage to half, from 30 MDC on average to 15, and ensuring his boom gun survives even longer.

Not a bad idea, though I don't know that I'd allow someone to roll with the explosions for plasma missiles, considering the damage doesn't result from the explosive power, but from the heat. Either way, assuming that they attempt a dodge with 7 of their attacks (and not the ones using the mini-missiles), they'd still do 360 MD in the first round, make the GB miss more than half of his attacks on average (call it half damage though) for 368 damage total. In that period of time,

The Samas, making called shots to try to neutralize the Boom Gun are reducing their chances to hit to 35%. The Glitterboy, firing at the Main Body of the Samas, has an 80% chance to hit. (Note: I am not including bonuses, penalties, or dodging from either party in this. This is an approximation.)

The Glitter Boy, firing at the main body of the SAMAS, has a 35% chance to hit, including bonuses and penalties.

With initiative, it is entirely possible for the Glitterboy to destroy all three Samas power armors in a single round.

Possible? Yes. Probable? No.

After looking at the numbers, I'm not convinced the Samas have a chance.

Look at the real numbers and check again.

AP MMs do damage x3 on a 20

Where on earth did you see that? I just looked them up and saw no mention of that.

/Sub

[grandmaster z0b]

AP MMs do damage x3 on a 20

Where on earth did you see that? I just looked them up and saw no mention of that.

RUE: all Armour Piercing missiles do double damage on a roll of 18-19 and triple damage on a 20. I don't have it in front of me but a quick search of these forums will confirm that it is true.

[Mack]

AP MMs do damage x3 on a 20

Where on earth did you see that? I just looked them up and saw no mention of that.

RUE: all Armour Piercing missiles do double damage on a roll of 18-19 and triple damage on a 20. I don't have it in front of me but a quick search of these forums will confirm that it is true.

RUE, p362. Roll of 18+ (including bonuses) inflicts double damage. Nat 20's inflict triple.

For fun, I like to include all Rail Guns as Armor Piercing, with the same effects. And then there's the Anti-Robot Specialist from Canada...

[grandmaster z0b]

AP MMs do damage x3 on a 20

Where on earth did you see that? I just looked them up and saw no mention of that.

RUE: all Armour Piercing missiles do double damage on a roll of 18-19 and triple damage on a 20. I don't have it in front of me but a quick search of these forums will confirm that it is true.

RUE, p362. Roll of 18+ (including bonuses) inflicts double damage. Nat 20's inflict triple.

For fun, I like to include all Rail Guns as Armor Piercing, with the same effects. And then there's the Anti-Robot Specialist from Canada...

Ditto; it's one of my favourite house rules. Although I would have to think twice if a PC wanted to play an Anti-robot specialist, I think that would be too munchy.

[Subjugator]

RUE, p362. Roll of 18+ (including bonuses) inflicts double damage. Nat 20's inflict triple.

For fun, I like to include all Rail Guns as Armor Piercing, with the same effects. And then there's the Anti-Robot Specialist from Canada...

Thanks Mack - I didn't see that there.

/Sub

[Danger]

Assuming that all combatants are level 1, let's look at some basic game mechanics in this:

The Glitterboy has 9 Attacks per round, versus the 6 Attacks per round of the Samas Pilots. So that's 9 Attacks VS 18 Attacks.

Wrong.

The Glitter Boy has 7 attacks per round, maximum. That assumes H2H Martial Arts, boxing, and RPA Elite with the GB. The SAMs have a maximum of 6 attacks per round. This assumes H2H Martial Arts, boxing, and RPA Elite with the SAM.

Under the Glitterboy OCC it states: GB Pilots get +1 Additional attack/action (RUE page 70 under Racial Requirements). Under the description of the Glitterboy Armor it states: +2 Additional attacks/actions per Melee. I was, in fact, giving them an additional attack for PA Combat Elite, which is incorrect - this is already factored under the armor (Hand to Hand Elite: Glitter Boy). So, we're both wrong - they start with 8 Attacks/Round, assuming they take Boxing and Martial Arts.

The Glitterboy has 880 MDC vs the 250 apiece of the Samas. That's 880 VS 750.

Wrong. The Glitter Boy has 770 MDC. I have no idea where you got the idea that it has 880, but it doesn't. Page 71 of Rifts: Ultimate Edition confirms this.

Sorry Subbie. My fault. Hit the wrong key on my numberpad. You are correct.

The Glitterboy's Boom Guns does 3d6x10 for an average of 100 MDC per shot

Actual average is 105 MDC per shot.

While this is technically true, it is impossible to actually roll that on 3d6.

the Samas Rail Gun does 1d4x10 for an average of 20 per shot

Actual average is 25 per shot. Those were mentioned because this offsets the damage done by the Glitter Boy in a minor fashion (5% of the original amount stated for the total increase) but in a significant fashion for the SAMAS rail gun (25% of the original amount stated for the total increase).

Another technicality. You can't roll 25 on a 1d4x10.

or their standard missiles do 1d6x10 (at best) for an average of 30 per shot.

Actual average is 35 per shot.

Another technicality. You can't roll 35 on 1d6x10.

That's 900 MDC VS 480 MDC in the first round (assuming the Samas expend their missiles - Remember they only have 2 each). After that, it drops to 900 MDC VS 360 MDC per round. At this rate, it would take all three Samas almost 3 full Rounds (assuming they survive that long ) to finish off the Glitterboy. The three round matchup would look like this: 2700 MDC VS 1200 MDC.

Wrong.

Assuming no dodging takes place and all attacks hit for average damage, it's 735 damage by the GB compared to 510 by the SAMs.

It adds up as follows:

Glitter Boy:
7 attacks at 105 MD per attack (735 MD)

SAMAS:
6 attacks using mini-missiles at 35 per attack (210 MD)
12 attacks using rail guns at 25 per attack (300 MD)

Actually it's 800/round for the Glitterboy.

Also, this scenario assumes no intelligence on the part of the SAMAS pilots.

See, the SAMs have a lot better facility to dodge, seeing as they are at +5 to dodge in flight with an aggregate of 18 attacks between them, whereas the GB has only +2 to dodge and has a total of 7 attacks to use. They could dodge for every single attack the GB made, make it more than half the time (assuming average rolls they have better bonuses to dodge than the GB gets to attack by default), and STILL attack him 11 times per round. For him to do a called shot to their head, he'd end up using two or three attacks doing so and they'd still have a good chance of dodging. Especially considering that since they are zig-zagging and otherwise taking evasive action and they are travelling at 300mph, he is at -7 to strike them.

Total penalty for him to strike them when they are dodging, weaving, travelling at 300mph, AND including his bonus to strike for being a GB pilot: -5

That means that for him to actually hit them, BEFORE they try and dodge, he needs a natural roll of 13 or higher (all ranged attacks require a roll of 8 to strike, +2 for him having RPA: Elite - Glitter Boy (total: 6), -6 for them moving at 300mph (total: 12), -1 for them taking evasive action ((total: 13) source: RUE page 361)).

For them to dodge if he hits them with a 13, they would need to roll a natural 8 or better (base roll is 13, -5 for their bonus to dodge when flying brings it to an 8 (source: RUE page 352)). This continues on a linear basis as the numbers go higher, with the notable exception being a natural 20, which can only be beaten by a natural 20. Despite that, his natural 19 could be beaten by a natural 14. That gives the SAMAS a gross advantage when dodging fire from the GB.

Also note that no penalty to dodging gunfire applies past the 50' mark (source: RUE page 361).

You're also assuming no intelligence on the Glitterboy's part, as he can use evasive action as well. Also, I find it laughable to assume that the Samas are fighting while flying constantly at 300 MPH. What's the penalties for that? Oh wait, it's -6 for Shooting Wild! Oh yes, they're in a MOVING VEHICLE! Not to mention they're at a -2 to hit the Glitterboy cause he's moving at 60 MPH, and taking evasive action also. I think we can agree that their bonuses pretty well cancel each other out (which is why I didn't include them in the first place!)
On a side note, the GB description states that the bonus to strike with the boomgun is in addition to any WP Heavy Energy Weapon skill bonuses, but when I looked up that skill, there were no bonuses listed. Is this an omission?
Edit: Rats, I forgot the most obvious of flaws with your argument: While it's true that the Samas pilots have a TOTAL of 18 Attacks/Round, each individual only has 6! Which means if a pilot is forced to use all of his attacks to dodge, the Glitterboy still has 2 free shots on him, which will at minimum seriously cripple his Samas and may even destroy it. Plus, the damage per round of the Samas group drops significantly.

The Glitterboy can dodge. I see no statements of him being unable to dodge at ANY point in R:UE. If such a statement exists, please post the Page No.

I agree that he can dodge, but time is NOT on his side in this fight. For him to dodge would be foolishness. The only way he'll survive is to end this fight as quickly as possible. They are quite effective when dodging, only using up 1/18 of their attack power in so doing. He loses 1/7 of his attack power every time he dodges.

I don't disagree that it's a waste of time for the Glitterboy to dodge, I was merely addressing another posters statement that they could not. Likewise, especially if the Samas are making called shots, it is a waste of actions for them to dodge. As they are only going to hit 35% of the time anyways. I do admit that they are better at dodging than the Glitterboy.

If the Samas are foolish enough to make called shots (more on that later), the Glitterboy can also Roll with the explosions of the missiles, thus reducing their damage to half, from 30 MDC on average to 15, and ensuring his boom gun survives even longer.

Not a bad idea, though I don't know that I'd allow someone to roll with the explosions for plasma missiles, considering the damage doesn't result from the explosive power, but from the heat. Either way, assuming that they attempt a dodge with 7 of their attacks (and not the ones using the mini-missiles), they'd still do 360 MD in the first round, make the GB miss more than half of his attacks on average (call it half damage though) for 368 damage total. In that period of time,

Plasma missiles and grenades are still explosives, and Missile Combat states that you can use Roll with Impact to reduce explosive force damage. The description of Plasma missiles does not dispute this.

Samas, making called shots to try to neutralize the Boom Gun are reducing their chances to hit to 35%. The Glitterboy, firing at the Main Body of the Samas, has an 80% chance to hit. (Note: I am not including bonuses, penalties, or dodging from either party in this. This is an approximation.)

The Glitter Boy, firing at the main body of the SAMAS, has a 35% chance to hit, including bonuses and penalties.

Discussed above. The Samas suffer similar and worse penalties for called shots.

With initiative, it is entirely possible for the Glitterboy to destroy all three Samas power armors in a single round.

Possible? Yes. Probable? No.

Very probable. But the Glitterboy needs to win initiative to really make this work.

After looking at the numbers, I'm not convinced the Samas have a chance.

Look at the real numbers and check again.

I did, and the Glitterboy says Boom!

AP MMs do damage x3 on a 20

Where on earth did you see that? I just looked them up and saw no mention of that.

/Sub

Page 362 of the R:UE under the Armor Piercing explosives description.

[Mack]

On a side note, the GB description states that the bonus to strike with the boomgun is in addition to any WP Heavy Energy Weapon skill bonuses, but when I looked up that skill, there were no bonuses listed. Is this an omission?

It's hidden on p361 of RUE.

[Danger]

On a side note, the GB description states that the bonus to strike with the boomgun is in addition to any WP Heavy Energy Weapon skill bonuses, but when I looked up that skill, there were no bonuses listed. Is this an omission?

It's hidden on p361 of RUE.

Thanks, Mack.

[Subjugator]

Under the Glitterboy OCC it states: GB Pilots get +1 Additional attack/action (RUE page 70 under Racial Requirements). Under the description of the Glitterboy Armor it states: +2 Additional attacks/actions per Melee. I was, in fact, giving them an additional attack for PA Combat Elite, which is incorrect - this is already factored under the armor (Hand to Hand Elite: Glitter Boy). So, we're both wrong - they start with 8 Attacks/Round, assuming they take Boxing and Martial Arts.

They *MAY* start with 8. It depends on whether or not it's a recent acquisition or a long term inherited vehicle. If they're with, for example, the Nation of Quebec, they won't have that bonus.

While this is technically true, it is impossible to actually roll that on 3d6.

Yes, but over time that will nonetheless bear itself out.

Another technicality. You can't roll 25 on a 1d4x10.

You cannot, but that's the average, and when calculating averages, one must use the actual numbers. One might as well say that they'll do 30 damage per shot (since you round up at or over 5 when rounding).

Another technicality. You can't roll 35 on 1d6x10.

No, but that's the actual average. Again, would you prefer I round up, or would you prefer to use the actual numbers? On the rail gun, you are penalizing the SAMAS by 20% of its actual damage rate, while only penalizing the GB by <5%.

Actually it's 800/round for the Glitterboy.

IF he's a heritage GB, then it's 840/round. If he's not, then it's still 735.

You're also assuming no intelligence on the Glitterboy's part, as he can use evasive action as well. Also, I find it laughable to assume that the Samas are fighting while flying constantly at 300 MPH.

He can use evasive action? OK - that'll make a difference of -2. He can move at 60mph while stopping 7-8 times per 15 seconds.

What's the penalties for that? Oh wait, it's -6 for Shooting Wild! Oh yes, they're in a MOVING VEHICLE! Not to mention they're at a -2 to hit the Glitterboy cause he's moving at 60 MPH, and taking evasive action also. I think we can agree that their bonuses pretty well cancel each other out (which is why I didn't include them in the first place!)

Not so much. He'll also get a -6 for shooting wild. Again, hurting his bonuses hurts him worse than them hurting their bonuses.

On a side note, the GB description states that the bonus to strike with the boomgun is in addition to any WP Heavy Energy Weapon skill bonuses, but when I looked up that skill, there were no bonuses listed. Is this an omission?

Edit: Rats, I forgot the most obvious of flaws with your argument: While it's true that the Samas pilots have a TOTAL of 18 Attacks/Round, each individual only has 6! Which means if a pilot is forced to use all of his attacks to dodge, the Glitterboy still has 2 free shots on him, which will at minimum seriously cripple his Samas and may even destroy it. Plus, the damage per round of the Samas group drops significantly.

The GB pilot cannot force all three pilots to use all their attacks to dodge. He'll be damaged at the end of that quite badly. Following what you're giving, he'll also be making those shots at an additional -6. He's seriously unlikely to hit them, needing to roll a natural 19 at BEST to even require a dodge on the part of the SAMAS pilot.

I don't disagree that it's a waste of time for the Glitterboy to dodge, I was merely addressing another posters statement that they could not. Likewise, especially if the Samas are making called shots, it is a waste of actions for them to dodge. As they are only going to hit 35% of the time anyways. I do admit that they are better at dodging than the Glitterboy.

Time's on their side - not his.

Plasma missiles and grenades are still explosives, and Missile Combat states that you can use Roll with Impact to reduce explosive force damage. The description of Plasma missiles does not dispute this.

That was just a speculative side note.

Discussed above. The Samas suffer similar and worse penalties for called shots.

I said you're right and that they should attack his main body. They'll take him out in 2-3 rounds. He'll miss the vast majority of the time, PARTICULARLY if he's moving, and won't benefit nearly as much as they will from their increased mobility.

Very probable. But the Glitterboy needs to win initiative to really make this work.

Even then he's likely dead.

I did, and the Glitterboy says Boom!

Yes, he does, but if the SAMAS pilots are nice, they might let him live after his armor explodes.

/Sub

[grandmaster z0b]

Without wanting to go into a number crunching war, I don't necessarily think the Glitterboy will win, but I think there are a lot of variables here that give the GB an advantage.

Firstly one Sam can't fly so no +5 to dodge for him, and he will take a while to close the initial distance of 5 miles. The other two can either fly at full speed into range to try and close the distance advantage that the GB has or hold back and wait for their comrade. If they wait then the GB has the opportunity to find a position with good cover, preferably somewhere MDC with a roof but an opening facing the direction of the Sams. If they fly straight at him (zig zagging and evading of course) then the first rounds will only be 1 GB vs. 2 Sams and the GB will get at least one free shot whilst they are closing the distance. They will have to shoot their mini missiles first as they have greater range than the rail gun. If the Sams are flying at high speed to get the +5 they will be shooting wild, which will mean they have to roll over 14 to hit (only 35% chance to hit without counting bonuses, whereas the GB should have 40% chance to hit one of them again when in this range)

If they wait, then I'm assuming GB can find somewhere with MDC cover or at least 1000s of SDC, this means that the Sams have to used call shots to hit him or to just destroy the cover. Either way is going to give the GB time to shoot and damage them whilst they're wasting attacks. Of course they can try to use cover as well however they would loose their +5 to dodge and in this scenario the GB has the advantage of finding the good cover.

Of course the Sams don't have to attack at all. They could try to find MDC cover themselves however this gives the GB the opportunity to approach them at his leisure and find a position where he can shoot them with his superior range and they can't shoot back. They could try to find an area where he had to approach them and they had good cover where he couldn't actually fire until he was in their range. That may help them.

[Lenwen]

So then the average GB Boom gun that hits a natural 20, does 3d6x10(x3) ?

If this is true, if the GB was lucky enough to hit one or even 2 nat 20's, on called shots on the Samas, Thier toast totally destroyed with 1 shot period.

3d6x10=180x3=540 Mega Damage done in 1 shot.

If the GB was lucky enough to roll 2 natural 20's on two called shots one on each a dif Samas, This fight is over with 2 shots, as the single Samas is not going to have the overall firepower to take out the GB.

Is this true ?

[Mack]

So then the average GB Boom gun that hits a natural 20, does 3d6x10(x3) ?

No. A Boom Gun inflicts double damage on a Nat 20, not triple. The triple is only for Armor Piercing explosives.
So it's 3D6x10x2.

If this is true, if the GB was lucky enough to hit one or even 2 nat 20's, on called shots on the Samas, Thier toast totally destroyed with 1 shot period.

3d6x10=180x3=540 Mega Damage done in 1 shot.

Also no. You're assuming rolling the maximum damage possible on 3D6x10, 180. There's only a 1 in 216 chance of that, or less than half a percentage point (0.463%). The average of 3D6x10 is 105, which would be doubled (not tripled) on a Nat 20 to a total of 210.

If the GB was lucky enough to roll 2 natural 20's on two called shots one on each a dif Samas, This fight is over with 2 shots, as the single Samas is not going to have the overall firepower to take out the GB.

Is this true ?

Extremely unlikely. There's only a 1 in 20 chance (5%) of rolling a Nat 20, and only a 1 in 400 chance (0.25%) of rolling it twice.

And as noted earlier, called shots are a gamble for the GB as it puts all his eggs in one basket. A miss on a aimed-called shot burns 3 actions that he can't spare.

[ShadowLogan]

If they fly straight at him (zig zagging and evading of course) then the first rounds will only be 1 GB vs. 2 Sams and the GB will get at least one free shot whilst they are closing the distance. They will have to shoot their mini missiles first as they have greater range than the rail gun.

Range is the Glitterboy's friend here for most of the trip.

At top speed of the Samas is 300mph, or 1.25miles OR 6600ft per melee (15sec). It's Mini-missiles reach 1mile (5280ft) max, and the Samas Railgun is 4000ft. The Glitterboy's Boomgun is 11000ft.

That allows the GB to fire for 10secs in that melee before the mini-missiles come into range. This assumes a straight line, if they are maneuvering the distance the Samas will have to travel will be greater giving the Glitterboy more firing time. This also assumes the Samas is traveling at top speed, a reduction in speed will give the GB more firing time. The mini-missile will take 2.1-2.5 seconds to travel the 5280ft (2053ft/s just the missile speed (AP) 2493ft/s if adding the speed of the Samas to the missile depending on how one wants to treat missile speeds)

One can fire their weapons for a 30% increase in range, but at -5strike.
New ranges: +3300ft GB,+1200ft Sam RG, +1584ft Sam MM.

Without taking shooting beyond the effective range and giving the GB 7APM, that works out to roughly 5 attacks before the Samas can even fire back, that should be enough to take out atleast one Samas depending on the dice rolls and formation used (are the Samas flying close together or far enough apart that it takes an attack to target the next Sam). Yes the Samas can dodge, but it has to know the attack is coming in order to dodge, so how easy is it for the Samas to spot a 11ft tall person shooting at them from over 1mile away with the sound of the attack traveling slower than the projectile?

[jedi078]

They will have to shoot their mini missiles first as they have greater range than the rail gun.

Boon Gun has the greater range with 11,000 feet. That's more then two miles.

The mini-missiles only have a range of 1/2 to one mile.

[Subjugator]

I didn't notice the part about the flight system on one being incapacitated, nor did I notice they were in the ruins of old Detroit. It's EXCEEDINGLY unlikely that the GB would win in the ruins of old Detroit. I was thinking of a place that was relatively flat with no real cover for the SAMs. If they have cover that is abundant, that greatly reduces the effectiveness of the extra range held by the Glitter Boy. The GB takes it in the ear in this situation - he's firing wild when they have cover.

/Sub

[Subjugator]

Extremely unlikely. There's only a 1 in 20 chance (5%) of rolling a Nat 20, and only a 1 in 400 chance (0.25%) of rolling it twice.

I one-shotted a succubus in a game with Kev by rolling consecutive natural 20s!

/Sub

[Subjugator]

Range is the Glitterboy's friend here for most of the trip.

At top speed of the Samas is 300mph, or 1.25miles OR 6600ft per melee (15sec). It's Mini-missiles reach 1mile (5280ft) max, and the Samas Railgun is 4000ft. The Glitterboy's Boomgun is 11000ft.

That allows the GB to fire for 10secs in that melee before the mini-missiles come into range. This assumes a straight line, if they are maneuvering the distance the Samas will have to travel will be greater giving the Glitterboy more firing time. This also assumes the Samas is traveling at top speed, a reduction in speed will give the GB more firing time. The mini-missile will take 2.1-2.5 seconds to travel the 5280ft (2053ft/s just the missile speed (AP) 2493ft/s if adding the speed of the Samas to the missile depending on how one wants to treat missile speeds)

One can fire their weapons for a 30% increase in range, but at -5strike.
New ranges: +3300ft GB,+1200ft Sam RG, +1584ft Sam MM.

Without taking shooting beyond the effective range and giving the GB 7APM, that works out to roughly 5 attacks before the Samas can even fire back, that should be enough to take out atleast one Samas depending on the dice rolls and formation used (are the Samas flying close together or far enough apart that it takes an attack to target the next Sam). Yes the Samas can dodge, but it has to know the attack is coming in order to dodge, so how easy is it for the Samas to spot a 11ft tall person shooting at them from over 1mile away with the sound of the attack traveling slower than the projectile?

You failed to notice that there is ample cover everywhere. Some of it is MD cover. In the event of MD cover, the GB would hit it, not the SAMs. In the event of SDC cover, the GB is shooting wild.

GB seriously loses at this.

/Sub

[Mack]

Extremely unlikely. There's only a 1 in 20 chance (5%) of rolling a Nat 20, and only a 1 in 400 chance (0.25%) of rolling it twice.

I one-shotted a succubus in a game with Kev by rolling consecutive natural 20s!

I do not think those words mean what you think they mean.

[Mack]

They will have to shoot their mini missiles first as they have greater range than the rail gun.

Boon Gun has the greater range with 11,000 feet. That's more then two miles.

The mini-missiles only have a range of 1/2 to one mile.

He was referring to the CR-40 on the SAMAS, which has less range than the mini-missles.

[Subjugator]

Extremely unlikely. There's only a 1 in 20 chance (5%) of rolling a Nat 20, and only a 1 in 400 chance (0.25%) of rolling it twice.

I one-shotted a succubus in a game with Kev by rolling consecutive natural 20s!

I do not think those words mean what you think they mean.

Actually, yes I do. I told him I'd rolled a natural 20. He told me to roll again to see how good it was, and I rolled another natural 20. My one shot (hit) killed the succubus.

/Sub

[Lenwen]

They will have to shoot their mini missiles first as they have greater range than the rail gun.

Boon Gun has the greater range with 11,000 feet. That's more then two miles.

The mini-missiles only have a range of 1/2 to one mile.

Considering each old styled Sam only has 2 (max) rocket's, thier point an shoot types, not smart.

Means the GB could easily dodge either of them.

And with a range of 1 mile, next to the GB's boom gun of 11,000ft thats OVER two miles. 10,560 ft = 2 miles.

Range is on the GB's side. If the GB decides to concentrate all firepower on 1 samas chances ARE likely the GB is going to take out at LEAST 1 of them prior to the Samas reaching him.