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I'm hoping that Kev remembers the conversation we had where I pointed out that vampires should get an extra 2 attacks over what's listed, since the original vampire book came out before the dreaded Two Attacks For Living were added to the game.

Sparkling Vampires!!

And a master vampire that is called Edward

Killer Cyborg wrote:I'm hoping that Kev remembers the conversation we had where I pointed out that vampires should get an extra 2 attacks over what's listed, since the original vampire book came out before the dreaded Two Attacks For Living were added to the game.

Two Attacks for Not-Living?

Not being vulnerable to bloody spring rain..or hoses...or spit balls..etc etc etc.
I'd keep the "wood hurts" though.

Dr. Shiny wrote:So, Kevin mentioned this in his latest Gateway appearance and his latest murmur. I'm a little surprised no-one has started a thread already. Personally, I can't wait! The Vampire Kingdoms have needed a boost for a while in order to be a credible threat. Don't get me wrong, Vampires are awesome but by themselves against prepared enemies they're not that scary. They work better with a "Day of the Triffids" type approach, meaning they're far more dangerous when taking advantage of other crises. Post-Tolkeen North America is rife with opportunities! Also, they should be recruiting anyone they can, especially beings who can sow confusion in the enemy ranks by augmenting or disguising themselves as vampires, sowing seeds of doubt in their inexperienced soon to be enemies ranks about their exact capabilities.

So, what do you expect and what are you hoping for?

He and I have talked about that for a while. I was bugging him about it needing an update due to the addition of Supernatural Strength after its release. It's also my favorite world book...but I do think that Vampires need an update.

/Sub

Oh yeah - I also think that he should do to them what was done to the zombies. There's one type that hides, another that is fast as hell, and so on and so forth.

/Sub

I would like to see a revised and updated VK, but I getting to old to get my hopes up on Kevin's idea's. I give it a 15% chance of ever seeing it.

DhAkael wrote:Not being vulnerable to bloody spring rain..or hoses...or spit balls..etc etc etc.
I'd keep the "wood hurts" though.

here here

please get rid of the water vunerablity

I'd be open to fire as a replacement but I'd be fine with that

more powers for older vamps




a expansion on the guild of the gifted

and the Hammers would be great to

I'd like to see the nations of blood style varient vampires. they are fantastic, and would make an awesome sourcebook/.

Shadow Wyrm wrote:I would like to see a revised and updated VK, but I getting to old to get my hopes up on Kevin's idea's. I give it a 15% chance of ever seeing it.

I submitted some revision notes and ideas just last week, so work has already begun.

Personally, I would like to see vampires get auto-dodge to reflect their traditional above-superhuman speed and reflexes.

I'll say this now, I hope we get clear rules on what types of holy symbols effect Rifts Vampires and that it's not just crosses. Though I do hope that the silly 'duct tape a cross onto a flashlight' to hurt them thing goes away.


Daniel Stoker

Daniel Stoker wrote:I'll say this now, I hope we get clear rules on what types of holy symbols effect Rifts Vampires and that it's not just crosses. Though I do hope that the silly 'duct tape a cross onto a flashlight' to hurt them thing goes away.


Daniel Stoker

it's not that it's a cross, it's that it's a plus sign, and vampires lose their ability to do math and the + reminds them of it and they must flee their embarrasement.

did he mention that the shadow of a cross can actually inflict damage on the vampire?

1 ) Autododge for Vampires
2 ) Remove Water vuln, but keep the "Cant cross running water"
3 ) Make Vampires more humanlike. I dislike that secondary vampires scream "monster" Have Master and Secondary vampires look almost if not identical to humans. (In a way I like Vampire the Masquerade better when it comes to the appearence of vampires, where you have a hard time distinguishing a vampire from a mortal), and Keep the third class as bestial as they are.
4 ) Add a working story why the vamps have changed otherwise we will be filling these forums with people screaming retcon! and I am sick and tired of that.
5 ) Make vampires more intelligent and not just predator animals. Have them infiltrate and subtly control the human societies, mentally or socially dominating the weak-willed humans like the cattle they are.
6 ) Humans are a shield between the vampires and the rest of the world. As long as people do not see the vampires, but know that they are there - the more power the vamps will have over others.
7 ) Vampire sects, groups, "clans" and families. Have different groupings of vampire be interesting in different pleasures, ideologies. Let them be the movers and shakers of the Mexican landtongue.
8 ) They have a success in Arzno (from what I understand), let them leran from that.
9 ) Do not make them too impossible to kill. A human with some knowledge and preparation, should be able to take out a vampire. But do not let them be whimps.
10 ) Let some vampires be able to utalize blood magic (in a lack of a abetter word) Magic that comes from sacrifcing their own blood (Hps) to fuel the magic. This magic should give them abilities to utalize fear, terror, control, disgusie, and control over animals, shadows and darkness. This should not be as many spells as incantation, but a handfull 1-3 spells per level of vampire.
11 ) Let vampires be able to heal themselves quickly, with the aid of dirt from their graves.
12 ) Never make them into MDC critters

I like the idea of vampires with some kind of life/blood magic.

To me the important ones are Secondary vampires looking more like real people (maybe on the very pasty side, but otherwise basically human).

Auto dodge, agreed with that much supernatural speed, they should dodge like nobodies business.

I like the water vulnerabilty, you get rid of that and it is ret con to the N-th degree. It gives poor communities at least a breath of a chance and also helps explain why vampires are still mostly confined to the south west and mexico (I don't like water vulnerability, but to me it just works in Rifts/Palladium games).

The most important to me, more powerful vampire abilities as they get older. Maybe for every 100 years (or do it by experience level) a 2nd vamp gets say +1 to mind control, maybe they alternate form (mist, wolf, bat) get more powerful, maybe they simply get stronger/faster, etc.
Just about everyone these days has vampires getting more powerful as they get older.
-Matt

Daniel Stoker wrote:I'll say this now, I hope we get clear rules on what types of holy symbols effect Rifts Vampires and that it's not just crosses. Though I do hope that the silly 'duct tape a cross onto a flashlight' to hurt them thing goes away.


Daniel Stoker

its a type of cross, ever look at a pic of a spanish ship? It is not a latin cross. But that is niether her nor there I like that only crosses hurt them and that decidely non Christian beings like true Atlantians know this and carry crosses. This allows groups to have the " The cross is the bane of vampires because they are the mockery of the blood sacrifice on the Cross..." thing or the " the cross is the antithisis of a circle ( 360 degrees inside the angles), Vampires are mystically bound by the circle, ( witness the fact that day and night are products only of a rotating spherical planet) and it has nothing to do with Christianity thing". As it is it appears there is something specific about the cross' shape which is harmful to vamps and I like that. It allows the vampire legends to be left mainly alone regarding crosses ( and not other holy symbols, palladium vamps are the product of Christian supersitition, not other religions, for example the drinking of blood for everlasting life is a direct parody on the Eucharist, etc.) but does not specifically say anything about Christianity, as those with no knowledge of Christianity seem to know about this vulnerability.

airdale91 wrote:Perhaps some better playable RCC's/OCC's??

Also, have one or two groups of Vamps that are on the path of Enlightenment (no pun intended) and they use their abilities to try to achieve their humanity bad in some form. The nice thing about Rifts is that you tend to always have both ends of the spectrum, so why not the vampires?

paths of enlightenment? This is not whitewolf.

Dunia wrote:1 ) Autododge for Vampires
2 ) Remove Water vuln, but keep the "Cant cross running water"
3 ) Make Vampires more humanlike. I dislike that secondary vampires scream "monster" Have Master and Secondary vampires look almost if not identical to humans. (In a way I like Vampire the Masquerade better when it comes to the appearence of vampires, where you have a hard time distinguishing a vampire from a mortal), and Keep the third class as bestial as they are.
4 ) Add a working story why the vamps have changed otherwise we will be filling these forums with people screaming retcon! and I am sick and tired of that.
5 ) Make vampires more intelligent and not just predator animals. Have them infiltrate and subtly control the human societies, mentally or socially dominating the weak-willed humans like the cattle they are.
6 ) Humans are a shield between the vampires and the rest of the world. As long as people do not see the vampires, but know that they are there - the more power the vamps will have over others.
7 ) Vampire sects, groups, "clans" and families. Have different groupings of vampire be interesting in different pleasures, ideologies. Let them be the movers and shakers of the Mexican landtongue.
8 ) They have a success in Arzno (from what I understand), let them leran from that.
9 ) Do not make them too impossible to kill. A human with some knowledge and preparation, should be able to take out a vampire. But do not let them be whimps.
10 ) Let some vampires be able to utalize blood magic (in a lack of a abetter word) Magic that comes from sacrifcing their own blood (Hps) to fuel the magic. This magic should give them abilities to utalize fear, terror, control, disgusie, and control over animals, shadows and darkness. This should not be as many spells as incantation, but a handfull 1-3 spells per level of vampire.
11 ) Let vampires be able to heal themselves quickly, with the aid of dirt from their graves.
12 ) Never make them into MDC critters

airdale91 wrote:Perhaps some better playable RCC's/OCC's??

Agreed and seconded all of the above. Plus when you add it to the product list make sure to give it a realistic release date. Also do not just copy and paste a bunch of stuff add a new cover. Give us a reason to buy the new book. If all you are going to do is just add a new coat of paint to an old house then imo do not bother to revise it.

Elthbert wrote:

airdale91 wrote:Perhaps some better playable RCC's/OCC's??

Also, have one or two groups of Vamps that are on the path of Enlightenment (no pun intended) and they use their abilities to try to achieve their humanity bad in some form. The nice thing about Rifts is that you tend to always have both ends of the spectrum, so why not the vampires?

paths of enlightenment? This is not whitewolf.

Lets use some other semantics then: Humanist ideology? Philosophy ?

I just do not buy that all vamps are bloodthirsty monsters, there must be a pathetically small minority that has managed to break the darkness that has engulfed their bodies and souls, this option should only be aviable to Secondary vampires however.

A good way is to make these vampires have alignments like Good: Scrupolous or Principalled. They have broken the bond from the Vampire Intelligence and the Master Vampire, but at a cost. They are suceptable to blood. If they encounter lots of human/d-Bee blood they must roll vs Mind Controll/Horror Factor or become homocidal murderers until they have gorged all the blood in vicinity. So they will be hard to play, but the benefit is that they are their wn masters and can try to persue a rather normal life.

azazel1024 wrote:
I like the water vulnerabilty, you get rid of that and it is ret con to the N-th degree. It gives poor communities at least a breath of a chance and also helps explain why vampires are still mostly confined to the south west and mexico (I don't like water vulnerability, but to me it just works in Rifts/Palladium games).
-Matt

Lets say that one of the Mexican VI:s (lets call him Phil) bestowed an invulnarability to his Master Vampire, making it immune to water squirts. The other VI:s did the same, but the Master Vampires kept this secret for themselves so that the secondary vampires could not rise against them. Then something happens,as one of the Mster Vampires decides that his forces shall have the upper hand in Mexico and teaches it to his most trusted lieutenants, and once the other Master Vampires notice this, they do the same and the vuln is lifted...

Aother idea is that there has been an offworld struggle with other VI that is not present on Rifts Earth and one has come out victorious. The VI of Rifts Earth was allied with this one and this Super VI has taught his allies how to protect their cattle armies from water.

That cares for the retcon.

This lifting of the vuln should only be against rain or water that is thrown, squirted or conjured against them in the shape of attack spells. Running water like rivers, channels, seas, lakes, streams still acts as a magical barrier and the vamps cannot cross the rio grande, amazon river, mexican gulf or the oceans. Hence they have still problem to leave mexico and invade USA

NO!! Absolutely not. Vampire Kingdoms was fine when it came out and quite frankly vampires are unbalancing as it is. If they need a change they need to made MORE vulnerable not less. As it stands they are already invulnerable to MD weapons, normal weapons and supposedly (tho' I refuse to believe it) nuclear weaponry as well as fire. Vampires are already a credable threat, esp. when you consider the possibility of an ex-CS soldier that has been turned and now serves a Vampire Intelligence.
Make the vampires vulnerable to Fire and Nuclear weapons, that way the CS actually has a chance against them, and don't change their strength ratings, they're already supernatural so supernatural strength isn't out of the question, just don't make them any more powerful than they already are. Vulnerable to water is still fine as it fits with some of the old legends of vampires not being able to cross running water. Give us more ways to kill them not less.
That and honestly Kevin STILL has more books to print, like Triax 2, Australia 2, etc. The last thing we need is a useless sourcebook for an enemy that doesn't need revisions.

I think change the vulnerability to water to only magic/holy water. That way all the TW anti-vamp gear still works, but a super-soaker doesn't unless it's a TW super-soaker or the water has been blessed by a priest of a god of light. Keep the inability to cross running water.

I also agree think they're should be some other types of vamps between Secondary and Master, ones who can follow some sort of dark magic (I like the idea of blood magic mentioned above).

Dunia wrote:

Elthbert wrote:

airdale91 wrote:Perhaps some better playable RCC's/OCC's??

Also, have one or two groups of Vamps that are on the path of Enlightenment (no pun intended) and they use their abilities to try to achieve their humanity bad in some form. The nice thing about Rifts is that you tend to always have both ends of the spectrum, so why not the vampires?

paths of enlightenment? This is not whitewolf.

Lets use some other semantics then: Humanist ideology? Philosophy ?

I just do not buy that all vamps are bloodthirsty monsters, there must be a pathetically small minority that has managed to break the darkness that has engulfed their bodies and souls, this option should only be aviable to Secondary vampires however.

A good way is to make these vampires have alignments like Good: Scrupolous or Principalled. They have broken the bond from the Vampire Intelligence and the Master Vampire, but at a cost. They are suceptable to blood. If they encounter lots of human/d-Bee blood they must roll vs Mind Controll/Horror Factor or become homocidal murderers until they have gorged all the blood in vicinity. So they will be hard to play, but the benefit is that they are their wn masters and can try to persue a rather normal life.

Ok.... so you mean Whitewolf?

In Rifts the person is dead and the body is possesed by a fragment of an alien entity. I frankly like it, it is nice to have good old fashion nasty, blood thirsty, people eating vampires for a change.

Elthbert wrote:

Dunia wrote:

Elthbert wrote:

airdale91 wrote:Perhaps some better playable RCC's/OCC's??

Also, have one or two groups of Vamps that are on the path of Enlightenment (no pun intended) and they use their abilities to try to achieve their humanity bad in some form. The nice thing about Rifts is that you tend to always have both ends of the spectrum, so why not the vampires?

paths of enlightenment? This is not whitewolf.

Lets use some other semantics then: Humanist ideology? Philosophy ?

I just do not buy that all vamps are bloodthirsty monsters, there must be a pathetically small minority that has managed to break the darkness that has engulfed their bodies and souls, this option should only be aviable to Secondary vampires however.

A good way is to make these vampires have alignments like Good: Scrupolous or Principalled. They have broken the bond from the Vampire Intelligence and the Master Vampire, but at a cost. They are suceptable to blood. If they encounter lots of human/d-Bee blood they must roll vs Mind Controll/Horror Factor or become homocidal murderers until they have gorged all the blood in vicinity. So they will be hard to play, but the benefit is that they are their wn masters and can try to persue a rather normal life.

Ok.... so you mean Whitewolf?

In Rifts the person is dead and the body is possesed by a fragment of an alien entity. I frankly like it, it is nice to have good old fashion nasty, blood thirsty, people eating vampires for a change.

let's not get to ambitious
white wolf is to vampires
as shadowrun is to cybernetics augmentation
however their are several canon charecters such a the vampire in pantheons
that are clearly heros
clearly some vampires might just want to work on their manuscript buy sime blood at the store
maybe get a game of pool in every once in a while

keir451 wrote:NO!! Absolutely not. Vampire Kingdoms was fine when it came out and quite frankly vampires are unbalancing as it is. If they need a change they need to made MORE vulnerable not less. As it stands they are already invulnerable to MD weapons, normal weapons and supposedly (tho' I refuse to believe it) nuclear weaponry as well as fire. Vampires are already a credable threat, esp. when you consider the possibility of an ex-CS soldier that has been turned and now serves a Vampire Intelligence.
Make the vampires vulnerable to Fire and Nuclear weapons, that way the CS actually has a chance against them, and don't change their strength ratings, they're already supernatural so supernatural strength isn't out of the question, just don't make them any more powerful than they already are. Vulnerable to water is still fine as it fits with some of the old legends of vampires not being able to cross running water. Give us more ways to kill them not less.
That and honestly Kevin STILL has more books to print, like Triax 2, Australia 2, etc. The last thing we need is a useless sourcebook for an enemy that doesn't need revisions.

I pretty much agree with every part of this. Which is why i went the Trustrum route of Nations of Blood. Its good enough to be made cannon, and doesn't get stupid, munchkin, or lame at any point, while having a lot of good stuff. Scratch that, every sentence of that work is pure genius.

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:

keir451 wrote:NO!! Absolutely not. Vampire Kingdoms was fine when it came out and quite frankly vampires are unbalancing as it is. If they need a change they need to made MORE vulnerable not less. As it stands they are already invulnerable to MD weapons, normal weapons and supposedly (tho' I refuse to believe it) nuclear weaponry as well as fire. Vampires are already a credable threat, esp. when you consider the possibility of an ex-CS soldier that has been turned and now serves a Vampire Intelligence.
Make the vampires vulnerable to Fire and Nuclear weapons, that way the CS actually has a chance against them, and don't change their strength ratings, they're already supernatural so supernatural strength isn't out of the question, just don't make them any more powerful than they already are. Vulnerable to water is still fine as it fits with some of the old legends of vampires not being able to cross running water. Give us more ways to kill them not less.
That and honestly Kevin STILL has more books to print, like Triax 2, Australia 2, etc. The last thing we need is a useless sourcebook for an enemy that doesn't need revisions.

I pretty much agree with every part of this. Which is why i went the Trustrum route of Nations of Blood. Its good enough to be made cannon, and doesn't get stupid, munchkin, or lame at any point, while having a lot of good stuff. Scratch that, every sentence of that work is pure genius.

Leave Vampires as is...I agree.

I would like Varient Vampires not related to the Vampire Intelligence types.
Vampire Masters through use of Necromancy Spell. I remember one from one of the books, Mystic Russia or a PBFrpg book. If the necromancer dies after the Necromancy ritual is completed, he becomes a Master Vampire.

TechnoGothic wrote:

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:

keir451 wrote:NO!! Absolutely not. Vampire Kingdoms was fine when it came out and quite frankly vampires are unbalancing as it is. If they need a change they need to made MORE vulnerable not less. As it stands they are already invulnerable to MD weapons, normal weapons and supposedly (tho' I refuse to believe it) nuclear weaponry as well as fire. Vampires are already a credable threat, esp. when you consider the possibility of an ex-CS soldier that has been turned and now serves a Vampire Intelligence.
Make the vampires vulnerable to Fire and Nuclear weapons, that way the CS actually has a chance against them, and don't change their strength ratings, they're already supernatural so supernatural strength isn't out of the question, just don't make them any more powerful than they already are. Vulnerable to water is still fine as it fits with some of the old legends of vampires not being able to cross running water. Give us more ways to kill them not less.
That and honestly Kevin STILL has more books to print, like Triax 2, Australia 2, etc. The last thing we need is a useless sourcebook for an enemy that doesn't need revisions.

I pretty much agree with every part of this. Which is why i went the Trustrum route of Nations of Blood. Its good enough to be made cannon, and doesn't get stupid, munchkin, or lame at any point, while having a lot of good stuff. Scratch that, every sentence of that work is pure genius.

Leave Vampires as is...I agree.

I would like Varient Vampires not related to the Vampire Intelligence types.
Vampire Masters through use of Necromancy Spell. I remember one from one of the books, Mystic Russia or a PBFrpg book. If the necromancer dies after the Necromancy ritual is completed, he becomes a Master Vampire.

Now a Non VI vampire I CAN get behind, esp. if it's got the traditional vulnerabilities and not a world shattering threat, I just really want to play Rifts/Robotech/Macross 2 not Whitewolf/Vampire the Masquerade.

To have Vampires created by depraved magic is a wonderful idea. For example Necromancers or really wicked ley line walkers who voloteer themselves to go through this ritual in order to live for ever, or just become supernatural beings.

And Ethbert, you mean that you will scream white wolf as soon as a vampire starts questioning their existence and wants to be good? It aleady exist in one of the Rifts books, it was friom there I got the idea, not from White Wolf. (And I am not even needing to resort to retcon

Dunia wrote:To have Vampires created by depraved magic is a wonderful idea. For example Necromancers or really wicked ley line walkers who voloteer themselves to go through this ritual in order to live for ever, or just become supernatural beings.

And Ethbert, you mean that you will scream white wolf as soon as a vampire starts questioning their existence and wants to be good? It aleady exist in one of the Rifts books, it was friom there I got the idea, not from White Wolf. (And I am not even needing to resort to retcon

Yeah, I remember there was a female secondary vamp. who was fighting against other vamps. I also liked the Rifter about the Forsaken, wherein a Vamp. Intel. strips the Vampire of it's powers and make them mortal again. I use that whenever an Intelligence is driven from Rifts Earth, Then (if I can find them) I eliminate the previous hosts, just to be sure, y'know what I mean Vern?

TechnoGothic wrote:

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:

keir451 wrote:NO!! Absolutely not. Vampire Kingdoms was fine when it came out and quite frankly vampires are unbalancing as it is. If they need a change they need to made MORE vulnerable not less. As it stands they are already invulnerable to MD weapons, normal weapons and supposedly (tho' I refuse to believe it) nuclear weaponry as well as fire. Vampires are already a credable threat, esp. when you consider the possibility of an ex-CS soldier that has been turned and now serves a Vampire Intelligence.
Make the vampires vulnerable to Fire and Nuclear weapons, that way the CS actually has a chance against them, and don't change their strength ratings, they're already supernatural so supernatural strength isn't out of the question, just don't make them any more powerful than they already are. Vulnerable to water is still fine as it fits with some of the old legends of vampires not being able to cross running water. Give us more ways to kill them not less.
That and honestly Kevin STILL has more books to print, like Triax 2, Australia 2, etc. The last thing we need is a useless sourcebook for an enemy that doesn't need revisions.

I pretty much agree with every part of this. Which is why i went the Trustrum route of Nations of Blood. Its good enough to be made cannon, and doesn't get stupid, munchkin, or lame at any point, while having a lot of good stuff. Scratch that, every sentence of that work is pure genius.

Leave Vampires as is...I agree.

I would like Varient Vampires not related to the Vampire Intelligence types.
Vampire Masters through use of Necromancy Spell. I remember one from one of the books, Mystic Russia or a PBFrpg book. If the necromancer dies after the Necromancy ritual is completed, he becomes a Master Vampire.

Sadly, that happened to a Necromancer in my game who died from being hurled out into the rain during a thunderstorm. He died because of Carpet of Adhesion. It was REALLY sad.

In PBFRPG there is a CURSE that turns you into a Master Vampire. Sunlight is not a vulnerability for them. But they possess all the others. If they are "Killed" before the Curse can be lifted/removed they will rise 3 nights later as a True Master Vampire with all the normal vulnerabilities and ugres...just no VI to control them.

Better idea, this VI has figured out how to make its minions resistant to water. At a price.

They become invulnerable to normal water, unless completely imerssed/soaked, but are still vulnerable to holy/magical water.

Keeps them from swimming through large bodies of water and they still have an extreme phobia about flying over bodies of water. A super soaker isn't going to do squat, a fire hose probably would hurt one, but not by nearly as much (say 3d6 damage, instead of something like 3d6x10 damage). A light rain is going to be painful, kind of like forgetting your sunblock on Venus (well, supposing there was no soupy super heated duper dense atmosphere to crush and incinerate you). A heavy downpour with no protection will destroy a vamp after a couple of minutes of it, but the lighter stuff is just painful (and one way to reveal a vampire, I mean how many people start developing blisters and pealing skin from the rain???)

Now the downside, they are vulnerable to MDC and magical fire, but at half damage.

I really like the idea that water isn't a vampire's friend, it grounds them to the Earth in some ways like wood and silver supposedly do. To me though, water is way too powerful against them. Even against the vamps that are starting to wear body armor. However, fire fairly traditionally has been able to hurt vamps and I think it should start hurting them in PW as well, even if it is only extreme examples of fire (plasma should count as fire in this case, but as mentioned at say half damage).

I think if a vamp is consumed by fire they SHOULD resurect 24hrs later unless the head and body were burned seperately as in current canon. However, I think it should be possible for a lay line walker or other magic OCC or priest to be able to cast an exorcism on the area where one or more vamps were burned up and it will permenantly prevent resurection. Frankly I think should be able to be done on any 'dead' vampire, staked, etc.
-Matt

I forget which book now, but there is at least one example (I think in Vampire Kingdoms) of a semi-good vampire.

I agree that at least a few should be able to break their 'evil' ways. I don't think Principled should ever be an acceptable alignment. I think the best should be scrupulous, but aflicted with blood lust. If the character doesn't feed on a certain amount of blood periodically then they will be consumed by blood lust just like in the books until it is satiated. The good/unprincipled vampire tries to keep it in check by feeding on animal blood, maybe the occasional donation, blood bank theft or maybe preying on particularly 'evil' badguys in the occasional moment of weakness (more likely to be Aberant for that though).
-Matt

Elthbert wrote:its a type of cross, ever look at a pic of a spanish ship? It is not a latin cross. But that is niether her nor there I like that only crosses hurt them and that decidely non Christian beings like true Atlantians know this and carry crosses. This allows groups to have the " The cross is the bane of vampires because they are the mockery of the blood sacrifice on the Cross..." thing or the " the cross is the antithisis of a circle ( 360 degrees inside the angles), Vampires are mystically bound by the circle, ( witness the fact that day and night are products only of a rotating spherical planet) and it has nothing to do with Christianity thing". As it is it appears there is something specific about the cross' shape which is harmful to vamps and I like that.

I find that rather silly, especially since in Palladium Fantasy we know that other holy symbols effect them and unless I'm mistaken they've upgraded to the same type of vamp intelligence style vampires. Plus the antithesis of a circle bit sounds groovy and all, but like a stretch since they’re not really bound to any circles. Either way though you like it, I don’t, and I still want it changed.


Daniel Stoker

the question is "what counts as holy water?"
i mean, the term is connected to a contemporary religion, and in that religion, it's just water that has been blessed by a preist. which has a double issue in rifts. 1) the religions with holywater are on palladium's "do not touch" list, and 2) if some guy in a white collar and fancy outfit can say a few words to "bless" water, does that count as magic, and thus making catholic rites spells, or is it the beleif..at which point anyone could do it?

besides, changing their weaknesses would require rewriting lots of other books as well.

leave the water weakness. if for nothing else than consistancy with other palladium lines.

instead, add a section about how 2nd and master vamps have learned how to circumvent their weaknesses using technology/magic/intellegence.

myself i want clarification on wether you can decap an unstaked vamp with a normal blade (should be possible, it would just not stop it for long), and clarification on wether vamps have super-man or wolverine type invulnerbility. (IE: do shots bullets bounce off, or just punch little holes but have no effect. i lean to the second.)

i'd also like ot see the cross thing explained. i second the "it's a magical sign of protection" explanation in this instance, since that helps avoid the "no no" of dealing with real religions.

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:I like the vampires pretty much how they are, though I might give them auto-dodge in my game. The only thing I would change about vamp's is the amount of their former life that they recall. I'd keep much more of that former knowledge in the vamp's. I'd do this so vampires could be picky about who they change. As it is right now if you are a great soldier or scientist and get turned in to a vamp you become just a regular vamp. If you allow them to keep more of their former skills them they become more useful to the vampire community.

i second this, especially since it ties in well with the vamps from the Arzno book.

Daniel Stoker wrote:

Elthbert wrote:its a type of cross, ever look at a pic of a spanish ship? It is not a latin cross. But that is niether her nor there I like that only crosses hurt them and that decidely non Christian beings like true Atlantians know this and carry crosses. This allows groups to have the " The cross is the bane of vampires because they are the mockery of the blood sacrifice on the Cross..." thing or the " the cross is the antithisis of a circle ( 360 degrees inside the angles), Vampires are mystically bound by the circle, ( witness the fact that day and night are products only of a rotating spherical planet) and it has nothing to do with Christianity thing". As it is it appears there is something specific about the cross' shape which is harmful to vamps and I like that.

I find that rather silly, especially since in Palladium Fantasy we know that other holy symbols effect them and unless I'm mistaken they've upgraded to the same type of vamp intelligence style vampires. Plus the antithesis of a circle bit sounds groovy and all, but like a stretch since they’re not really bound to any circles. Either way though you like it, I don’t, and I still want it changed.


Daniel Stoker

I'm at a loss to explain the Christian True Atlanteans. There's just so much logically incoherent my brain hurts thinking about it.

To be honest, I've reviewed Vampires. They don't need Autododge, and they don't need to be more powerful.

What they need is not to be skill and power gimped for becoming a vampire. It's ridiculous that they should lose their old OCC and everything should be a mess on paper. "Not during the day" is enough of a limitation that it should just be (Vampire Type) R.C.C. with X O.C.C.

I also lean towards the second interpratation. That to me though says there need to be new rules to deal with something like that. If bullets, weapons, etc can 'temporarily hurt' a vampire, kind of like the T1000, then they need to work with that.

Personally I think if you hit one with a minimissile you are going to scatter it to hell and beyond. But come the next melee round or so its going to be all corporeal again and playing with your uvula by going through your rectum. Any wood, silver, water or sunlight damage however can't be almost immediately healed, it takes them a short while to heal it (still supernatural regeneration).

Something like say a normal regeneration of 3d6x10 per melee round, but damage from wood, silver, sunlight and water is at 1/10th the normal rate. Also if reduced to 0 by anything else they continue to regenerate as normal, if reduced to 0 or below by the affore mentioned four (pun intended) then they are temporarily dead/incapacitated for 2d6 melee rounds until they get up and start their slowed healing, unless of course staked, etc in that time.

Any and all mundane damage is healed at that 3d6x10 rate, so if reduced to zero because you pumped one full of lead and then hit it with a wood baseball bat just means its going to immediately get back up with a slowly (but before your eyes) healing welt over one eye. The full HP of the vamp must be reduced by one of the 4 vulnerabilities to temporarily kill one.
-Matt

Vampire Kingdoms so needs to be revised for over a decade. I hope he cuts out allot of the details on the town and go more for info on the vampire hunters. I like Rifts vampires but would like to see some rare subclasses for secondary vampires like Vampire sorcerer or mind mage, since a necromancer can use a ritual to become one o pond his death. In our game we use Dead Reign's zombies as victims of wild vampires. I wouldn't mind seeing a few different variations of vampires mainly ones that don't originate from Vampire Intelligence like the ones in Nightbane core book. Going to be fun to head back down to Mexico next year for some undead slaying.

runebeo wrote:Vampire Kingdoms so needs to be revised for over a decade. I hope he cuts out allot of the details on the town

Are you Nuts!?!?

The info on El Paso and Ciudad Juarez contributes to make WB1 the perfect Rifts book IMO.

It's a world book, not a vampire book, so it's only right that it should detail the geography, politics and people of that region of the world.

I'm all for for new/variant/half-breed/vegetarian vampires and pages of fluff on how they're organised, but that should be contained within this new vampire sourcebook, leave WB1 (apart from the tweaks/updates) alone!

Oh, and I've always loved the vulnerability to water.

sHaka wrote:

runebeo wrote:Vampire Kingdoms so needs to be revised for over a decade. I hope he cuts out allot of the details on the town

Are you Nuts!?!?

The info on El Paso and Ciudad Juarez contributes to make WB1 the perfect Rifts book IMO

Seconded.
VK is STILL the best worldbook Palladium has ever put out, and that's because of all the material that's in there. It isn't just new OCCs and gear, there's fully fleshed-out cities, with enough material for entire campaigns.

sHaka wrote:[Are you Nuts!?!?
The info on El Paso and Ciudad Juarez contributes to make WB1 the perfect Rifts book IMO.

It's a world book, not a vampire book, so it's only right that it should detail the geography, politics and people of that region of the world.

Thirded. Just as long as the information on both cities is updated and revised. Not just copy and pasted.

the only thing I like about the WB is the cites and other nonvampire stuff


I have had some fun with the hammers in el paso

I was really disappointed with merctown]

it tried to do what vk did city wise but it just did not capture the imagination

runebeo wrote:Vampire Kingdoms so needs to be revised for over a decade. I hope he cuts out allot of the details on the town and go more for info on the vampire hunters. I like Rifts vampires but would like to see some rare subclasses for secondary vampires like Vampire sorcerer or mind mage, since a necromancer can use a ritual to become one o pond his death. In our game we use Dead Reign's zombies as victims of wild vampires. I wouldn't mind seeing a few different variations of vampires mainly ones that don't originate from Vampire Intelligence like the ones in Nightbane core book. Going to be fun to head back down to Mexico next year for some undead slaying.

Any revisions to VK can be done using RUE, we DON'T need a stupid sourcebook for it. We already have two subclasses of vampires, The Secondary and the Wild Vampires. The real problem is not the towns but the complete LACK of decent anti supernatural spells in the game period. The New spells are all geared toward affecting a technological foe, not vampires or demons.
Magic is NOT the great equalizer that Kevin makes it out to be, and he's deliberatley made vampires so obscene that they could even take down a fully outfitted CS patrol.
Again any vampire that is NOT attached to an Intelligence is OK so long as they can't kill a soldier in power armor or tear apart a Hellraiser 'Bot w/ their bare hands.

sHaka wrote:
The info on El Paso and Ciudad Juarez contributes to make WB1 the perfect Rifts book IMO.

It's a world book, not a vampire book, so it's only right that it should detail the geography, politics and people of that region of the world.

Quoted for truth.

Vampire Kingdoms, despite being 18 years old, still holds up very well in terms of its content. It has a little bit of everything and covers a wide spread, which why it's still a usefull book after all these years.

If anything, it needs more maps; especially for Fort Reid and the Tampico Military Protecterate, since those the two most likely places that a Player Charater band of vampire slayers will be based out of.

Braden Campbell wrote:

sHaka wrote:
The info on El Paso and Ciudad Juarez contributes to make WB1 the perfect Rifts book IMO.

It's a world book, not a vampire book, so it's only right that it should detail the geography, politics and people of that region of the world.

Quoted for truth.

Vampire Kingdoms, despite being 18 years old, still holds up very well in terms of its content. It has a little bit of everything and covers a wide spread, which why it's still a usefull book after all these years.

If anything, it needs more maps; especially for Fort Reid and the Tampico Military Protecterate, since those the two most likely places that a Player Charater band of vampire slayers will be based out of.

with merc town expanding on Tampico Military Protecterate owners
I'd like to see this to

but the vampires
is it so horrible to do a retcon?

csbioborg wrote:

Braden Campbell wrote:

sHaka wrote:
The info on El Paso and Ciudad Juarez contributes to make WB1 the perfect Rifts book IMO.

It's a world book, not a vampire book, so it's only right that it should detail the geography, politics and people of that region of the world.

Quoted for truth.

Vampire Kingdoms, despite being 18 years old, still holds up very well in terms of its content. It has a little bit of everything and covers a wide spread, which why it's still a usefull book after all these years.

If anything, it needs more maps; especially for Fort Reid and the Tampico Military Protecterate, since those the two most likely places that a Player Charater band of vampire slayers will be based out of.

with merc town expanding on Tampico Military Protecterate owners
I'd like to see this to

but the vampires
is it so horrible to do a retcon?

Yes and no. I, personally, think VK is fine the way it is, I've liked it that way since I bought it 18 yrs ago, tho' I've taken a different opinion on Rifts vampires these days. I really want the other books that Kevin has promised us for the past decade or so. I'd rather he spent the money on Triax 2, Australia 2 & 3, a Northern Gun world book, Underseas 2: Lemuria and ANY Splicers source books. If a new Vampire book is printed I will not buy it and several of my gamers won't either and I've bought nearly everyone w/ the exception of China and Russia, Just forgot on Russia and China I didn't like.

I would rather buy a revised Vampire Kingdoms and a Vampire Kingdoms 2 if they were printed than a Underseas 2, Lemuria or other books about Japan or Australia and the same goes for my gaming groups.
The heart of Rifts is in North America and I think that it is more fun to explore that area than underseas or Australia. IMHO those books feels as if they were made just to make money without thought. "Lets write some incoherrent stuff and coax the hard core gamers for some 30 dollars each..."

So more books that are being revised and newly made that is situated around North America, and more books about the important areas (New Lazlo, Lazlo, Coalition States, Northern Gun, Ipsphemig? etc). I can think that Triax 2 might be needed, but I do not think that many people I know will buy it.

And when it comes to vampires, I would rather see a retcon about losing that pathetic water weakness they have. I have never heard of any legend about vampires from our world that lets a 4 year old boy with a squirt gun to kill or seriously wound a vampire. The first time I read that, I laughed and thought "stupid americans, what are they thinking now". Rivers and running water is perfect, that weakness is well documented, but the use of a water baloon...please.

I have to agree. Every Rifts book sells ten times as much as every other sourcebook that is not Rifts, with the single exception of the Robotech stuff, which only sells about five times every other sourcebook that is not Rifts. Focus on the lines that make the most money.