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What happens if a non-psychic Mortal SDC Necromancer turns into a Soul Harvester, leeches off thousands of PPE from all the dragons and gods he killed and used the Level 14 Necro-Spell Return from Grave?

A legal Master Vampire with thousands of hit points.
Rule 1- WB12 Psycape Pg 19 - Harvesting of Souls - "This is the power of the Harvester to literally rip the soul of his victim and binds it to himself. The foul death mage then gains the PPE of his victim which is added to his own PPE base."
Rule 2 - WB18 Mystic Russia - Level 14 Return from Grave spell - "Hit points are equal to twice the Necromancer's base PPE at the time of his death."

The prime candidate for such soul-capture is a lizard mage according to my research so far because they are easier to kill than dragons and they produce 3 times more PPE in return.

Let's say the Harvester is 15th level and he has captured 30 Lizard Mages Souls.

Each Lizard Mage has 3000 PPE max. 30x3000 PPE = 90000 PPE. Upon Vampirification, the Harvester will have 90000x2=180000 Hit Points.

Owned.

Iron Manticore wrote:Sunlight = poof!

Actually since the character would have thousands of HP and only takes 1d6x10 HP every 15 seconds when exposed to direct sun (and then regenerates 2d6 HP 15 seconds later) a character like this should be able to survive in the sun for a long time.

Your questions are of a role-playing nature and as such there are a thousand and one ways to solve your dilemmas.

Darkorinth wrote:Two questions:

1) How did a mortal SDC Necromancer/Soul Harvester kill "dragons and gods"? Especially because you have to ritually kill them. Killing a dragon or god in combat is maybe possible, but capturing it for sacrafice just doesn't really seem doable for the character or a group of characters. How did you expect to pull this off, especially doing it repeatedly without using up a massive amount of PPE?

I think any gamer with enough intelligence would figure out that it is not gonna be a one-day job. The Harvester needs time and experience levels to increase the number of souls he can holds doesn't he?

So to answer your questions of how to capture Dragons and Gods, it would surely be an alliance with other powerful beings to damage them first and then exacting the ritual when they are near death.

But the prime candidate for such soul-capture are not Dragons nor Gods. Let me give you the Lizard Mage from Conversion Book 1.

MDC = 1D6x100 + 400 (Comparatively much lower than the Dragons)
PPE = 5d6x100 (That is a max of 3000 PPE compared to the Great Horned Dragon's max of 1200 PPE)

As you can you, it is far easier to capture Lizard Mages and they produce more PPE as well. And yes, it is not gonna be a one-day job in capturing all of them.

Darkorinth wrote:Two questions:

2) The Soul Harvesters are under the command of a powerful alien intelligence. If you could get ahold of even one dragon or god, why wouldn't the character be forced to turn it's immensely powerful soul over to the alient intelligence?

Because the alien intelligence wants the character to become more powerful so that it can serve the alien intelligence better? Is there even a rule that says the Harvester would suffer any penalties if he doesn't follow the intelligence's orders?

Last time I checked, the Soul Harvesters have no pacts of obedience unlike the Witch.

Darkorinth wrote:Two questions:
If it was a PC what would make it interesting beyond "Thousands of HP"?

Because this character would be the figurehead and leader of a cult who have thousands of murder-wraiths, vampires, zombies and other undead.

Owned.

Iron Manticore wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Iron Manticore wrote:Sunlight = poof!

Actually since the character would have thousands of HP and only takes 1d6x10 HP every 15 seconds when exposed to direct sun (and then regenerates 2d6 HP 15 seconds later) a character like this should be able to survive in the sun for a long time.

Alright, 40 HP per minute...gives me something like 2,400 HP per hour...so, say the sun is up for 12 hours...that's 26,400 HP...and that's only if I roll a 1 every time. Of course, if he regenerates max possible then his 12 beats my 10.

If I roll maximum everytime...he takes 240 HP per minute, 14,400 HP in an hour, so 172,800 HP in a 12 hour period...and at his best regen he can only regenerate 34,560 HP. hehehe...sorry, had to crunch the numbers.

Let's say the Harvester is 15th level and he has captured 30 Lizard Mages Souls.

Each Lizard Mage has 3000 PPE max. 30x3000 PPE = 90000 PPE. Upon Vampirification, the Harvester will have 90000x2=180000 Hit Points.

So yeah, the 15th level Harvester/Necromancer/Vampire will barely survive the 12 hour sunlight ordeal with 180000-172800=7200 HP to spare.

Assuming his thousands of murder-wraith followers doesn't rescue him before then. Or maybe his secondary vampire followers will rescue him at night.

Sorry man, I know I am being a poke but I just have to say this again.

Owned.

Darkorinth wrote:The harvester is trained by and serves the Alien Intelligence. The Alien Intelligence's main goal is to gather power. They aren't known for letting incredible windfalls like the soul of a Lizard Mage remain in the hands of mere servants. I really don't see him letting you keep it, and his resources drastically overmatch yours, particular since most of your resources are his in the first place. Just because you don't get penalties or have a pact of obedience it doesn't mean that you can do whatever you want without it caring.

How did you get thousands of murder-wraith followers? A few dozen I could see, but thousands? I doubt that many murder-wraiths exist.

No it's not a "one day strategy" but what sort of strategy were you think of that would allow you to capture someone as powerful as a Lizard-mage. Remember the only one mentioned as even being on Rifts is the lord of Stormspire. They are rarer than dragons and almost as powerful. What sort of powerful beings were you planning on asking for help? What sort of things would you have to offer them? Why wouldn't they betray you and keep the lizard mage for themselves?

Also saying things like "any gamer with enough intelligence" and "owned" are rude, insulting and childish. I'm happy to discuss any ideas you've got, but please at least be polite and curtious to the other people on the board.

Why would a Splurgoth create a ultra-poweful Bio-Borg? Why would a Gene-splicer create a ultra-powerful Monster-X Hero? Ever heard of kidnapping Lizard-Mages from other dimensions?

Why wouldn't you get run down by a car the next time you walk down a street? Why wouldn't your oven blow up in your face the next time you stir-fry some eggs?

This topic is more of a numbers-crunching, rules-lawyering type of topic.

As far as I am concerned, all your questions can be easily solved through the art of smart role-playing. If you have any legit game rules which can counter my legit combo, I will gladly hear them but I am not in this thread to discuss how to role-play a game in a cunning manner.

its technically legal, and it has no special protection from staking...

Darkorinth wrote:I believe I acknowledge in my very first post that it is technically legal. However since you don't seem interested in having a discussion beyond "look what I can do" there isn't much point in continueing.

This is because the questions which you raise are the kind of questions which arise when a CS soldier attempts to obtain a Glitterboy or when a Cosmo-Knights attempts to buy two Swords of Atlantis.

Technically, a GM can come up with all sorts of impossible scenarios to prevent a legit outcome from happening. Legally speaking, you should be able to cross the street safely but the GM might hit you with a cab just to prevent you doing so. Legally speaking, you should be able to fry some eggs for breakfast every morning but the GM might have your oven explode just to prevent you from having your scrambled eggs breakfast.

I can come up with all sorts of legit scenarios but you will only just blow them down. If you wanna participate in those role-playing discussions however, I would welcome you in my thread "New Tolkeen".

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=106620

rat_bastard wrote:its technically legal, and it has no special protection from staking...

No one is perfect in Rifts. This monster of mine might be killed by Zeus pissing on him if the GM allows it to be so.

crystaleye1950 wrote:What happens if a non-psychic Mortal SDC Necromancer turns into a Soul Harvester, leeches off thousands of PPE from all the dragons and gods he killed and used the Level 14 Necro-Spell Return from Grave?

A legal Master Vampire with thousands of hit points.
Rule 1- WB12 Psycape Pg 19 - Harvesting of Souls - "This is the power of the Harvester to literally rip the soul of his victim and binds it to himself. The foul death mage then gains the PPE of his victim which is added to his own PPE base."
Rule 2 - WB18 Mystic Russia - Level 14 Return from Grave spell - "Hit points are equal to twice the Necromancer's base PPE at the time of his death."

The prime candidate for such soul-capture is a lizard mage according to my research so far because they are easier to kill than dragons and they produce 3 times more PPE in return.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Let's say the Harvester is 15th level and he has captured 30 Lizard Mages Souls..

A single 15th lvl Lizard Mage is not going to be just lvl 15 in 1 area of magic .. but lvl 15 in multiple area's .. thus the true danger of the Lizard Mage. A single Lizard Mage would be able to take out an entire sect of Dark Harvesters with little to no ease ..

crystaleye1950 wrote:Each Lizard Mage has 3000 PPE max. 30x3000 PPE = 90000 PPE. Upon Vampirification, the Harvester will have 90000x2=180000 Hit Points.

There are not even 10 known or unknown Lizard Mages left Let alone 15 of them .. And chances they have a max amount of PPE, are not good .. And also 1 single Lizard Mage will be powerfull enough at lvl 15 to utterly destroy the Dark Harvest sect and if you have 15 of them all together in the same area ..

Nxla .. might not even stand a chance ..

THATS .. how powerful Lizard Mages are ..

crystaleye1950 wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:its technically legal, and it has no special protection from staking...

No one is perfect in Rifts. This monster of mine might be killed by Zeus pissing on him if the GM allows it to be so.

Considering that the % of Purity is never given by Palladium for "Water" and equitable damage due to water.

Ergo .. "****" can in fact damage Vampires.

Like it or not...

crystaleye1950 wrote:There are not even 10 known or unknown Lizard Mages left Let alone 15 of them ..

And your source of reference material for this stat is ... ?

Lenwen wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:its technically legal, and it has no special protection from staking...

No one is perfect in Rifts. This monster of mine might be killed by Zeus pissing on him if the GM allows it to be so.

Considering that the % of Purity is never given by Palladium for "Water" and equitable damage due to water.

Ergo .. "****" can in fact damage Vampires.

Like it or not...

Because Zeus is a major god, I would say that his urine is blessed by him and therefore "blessed urine" is dangerous to vampires in the same way "Holy Water" is.

Lenwen wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:its technically legal, and it has no special protection from staking...

No one is perfect in Rifts. This monster of mine might be killed by Zeus pissing on him if the GM allows it to be so.

Considering that the % of Purity is never given by Palladium for "Water" and equitable damage due to water.

Ergo .. "****" can in fact damage Vampires.

Like it or not...

Because Zeus is a major god, I would say that his **** is blessed by him and therefore "blessed ****" is dangerous to vampires in the same way "Holy Water" is.

Carpet of Adhesion, Wind Rush, and a good old fashioned rainstorm will probably get rid of him. There's magic damage to get rid of the rest of his HP. Plus, you forgot the sunlight rule. The new Warlock spell from Book of Magic Globe of True Sunlight pretty much destroys this doofus in under five minutes, since if you have that and Carpet of Adhesion, he turns into a heap of ash.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:There are not even 10 known or unknown Lizard Mages left Let alone 15 of them ..

And your source of reference material for this stat is ... ?

Palladium Fantasy Main Book itself ..

Under the Lizard Mage description.

Stake the Vampire ..

Wait till daytime .

Remove Stake ..

Death in a couple of minutes ..

Or .. Alternatly .. you could simple ..

Stake the Vampire , cut off its head .. burn both the head and the body ..

there goes all what ever amount of Hp's the Vampire had ..

Soribold Vask. Lord of Letters.

Pg 170 Rifts : Siege on Tolkeen six, Final Siege.

Is a Lizard Mage. Has 2800 PPE, Master of Magic (tho he is only 10th lvl LLW, 8th lvl Diabolist)

Soribold knows all Rune Magic, All Summoning Magic, all dimensional magic

One single Lizard Mage .. would easily own an entire Coven .. of Harvesters ..

Dragons would be an easier target for Harvesters by far ..

A character like that can sneak into a coven of harvesters, bottomless pit all but one and fight them one at a time.

Balabanto wrote:A character like that can sneak into a coven of harvesters, bottomless pit all but one and fight them one at a time.

And since the Lizard Mage is a Psionic being as well ..

Psionic's being one of the Harvester's biggest weakness's ..

The Lizard Mage would straight up OWN .. a coven of Harvester's .. with total Impunity..

Lenwen wrote:

Balabanto wrote:A character like that can sneak into a coven of harvesters, bottomless pit all but one and fight them one at a time.

And since the Lizard Mage is a Psionic being as well ..

Psionic's being one of the Harvester's biggest weakness's ..

The Lizard Mage would straight up OWN .. a coven of Harvester's .. with total Impunity..

This is why it is a role-playing game. I would love to see the Lizard Mage sneak up on a coven of Necromancer Havesters with Murder-Wraiths.

Lenwen wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:There are not even 10 known or unknown Lizard Mages left Let alone 15 of them ..

And your source of reference material for this stat is ... ?

Palladium Fantasy Main Book itself ..

Under the Lizard Mage description.

In Conversion Book 1, under the Lizard Mage description, it says that thousands of lizard mages escaped to other dimensions from palladium.

Some ended up on Rifts Earth.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:There are not even 10 known or unknown Lizard Mages left Let alone 15 of them ..

And your source of reference material for this stat is ... ?

Palladium Fantasy Main Book itself ..

Under the Lizard Mage description.

In Conversion Book 1, under the Lizard Mage description, it says that thousands of lizard mages escaped to other dimensions from palladium.

Some ended up on Rifts Earth.

Conversion book 1 has been outdated .. and Soribold is the single known Lizard Mage known in Rifts Earth.

As of 109 PA.

Canonly speaking. And Soribold would own every single Harvester .. one on one .. or Soribold would own Harvester's .. Covens .. all by his self ..

It would be litterally easier to take down a dragon .. then it would a Lizard Mage.

Lenwen wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:There are not even 10 known or unknown Lizard Mages left Let alone 15 of them ..

And your source of reference material for this stat is ... ?

Palladium Fantasy Main Book itself ..

Under the Lizard Mage description.

In Conversion Book 1, under the Lizard Mage description, it says that thousands of lizard mages escaped to other dimensions from palladium.

Some ended up on Rifts Earth.

Conversion book 1 has been outdated .. and Soribold is the single known Lizard Mage known in Rifts Earth.

As of 109 PA.

Canonly speaking. And Soribold would own every single Harvester .. one on one .. or Soribold would own Harvester's .. Covens .. all by his self ..

It would be litterally easier to take down a dragon .. then it would a Lizard Mage.

So are you saying there is only one lizard mage in the entire rifts universe?

Furthermore, can you give me written proof that Soribold is the ONLY lizard Mage on Rifts Earth?

Gimme a break.

crystaleye1950 wrote: So are you saying there is only one lizard mage in the entire rifts universe?

No not the only Lizard Mage in the entire Universe .. but were not talking about the Entire Universe. Were Talking about Rifts earth .. Circa 109 PA .. (current timeline) Are we not ?

So why do you switch the settings from Rifts Earth .. to the entire Universe ?

crystaleye1950 wrote:Furthermore, can you give me written proof that Soribold is the ONLY lizard Mage on Rifts Earth?

Gimme a break.

Yes I can.

I pose this quandry to you.

Find me another Lizard Mage in all of the Rifts line of Books.

If you can .. then obviously I was wrong, and there might be more then one .. but as it stands right now ..

Soribold is thee only TRUE .. Lizard Mage .. in the Known Rifts Earth. Circa 109 Pa.

I'll wait tho .. just in case you DO .. actually find another one.

Lenwen wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote: So are you saying there is only one lizard mage in the entire rifts universe?

No not the only Lizard Mage in the entire Universe .. but were not talking about the Entire Universe. Were Talking about Rifts earth .. Circa 109 PA .. (current timeline) Are we not ?

So why do you switch the settings from Rifts Earth .. to the entire Universe ?

crystaleye1950 wrote:Furthermore, can you give me written proof that Soribold is the ONLY lizard Mage on Rifts Earth?

Gimme a break.

Yes I can.

I pose this quandry to you.

Find me another Lizard Mage in all of the Rifts line of Books.

If you can .. then obviously I was wrong, and there might be more then one .. but as it stands right now ..

Soribold is thee only TRUE .. Lizard Mage .. in the Known Rifts Earth. Circa 109 Pa.

I'll wait tho .. just in case you DO .. actually find another one.

Right, so since Soribold is the only known Lizard Mage alive, therefore he should be the only Lizard Mage available on Rifts Earth.

It is impossible that other Lizard Mages might have found their way to Rifts Earth nor is it possible for your Harvester to hunt Lizard Mages in other dimensions. *sarcasm intended*

Man, are you sure you are playing Rifts right? I do bow down to your "superior" intelligence. LOL!

crystaleye1950 wrote:What happens if a non-psychic Mortal SDC Necromancer turns into a Soul Harvester, leeches off thousands of PPE from all the dragons and gods he killed and used the Level 14 Necro-Spell Return from Grave?

A legal Master Vampire with thousands of hit points.
Rule 1- WB12 Psycape Pg 19 - Harvesting of Souls - "This is the power of the Harvester to literally rip the soul of his victim and binds it to himself. The foul death mage then gains the PPE of his victim which is added to his own PPE base."
Rule 2 - WB18 Mystic Russia - Level 14 Return from Grave spell - "Hit points are equal to twice the Necromancer's base PPE at the time of his death."

The prime candidate for such soul-capture is a lizard mage according to my research so far because they are easier to kill than dragons and they produce 3 times more PPE in return.

Let's say the Harvester is 15th level and he has captured 30 Lizard Mages Souls.

Each Lizard Mage has 3000 PPE max. 30x3000 PPE = 90000 PPE. Upon Vampirification, the Harvester will have 90000x2=180000 Hit Points.

Owned.

Yes this is technicaly legal, now lets see you do this starting with a 1st level character. I will be waiting to see posts of your adventures as you try to achieve this.

Mallak's Place wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:What happens if a non-psychic Mortal SDC Necromancer turns into a Soul Harvester, leeches off thousands of PPE from all the dragons and gods he killed and used the Level 14 Necro-Spell Return from Grave?

A legal Master Vampire with thousands of hit points.
Rule 1- WB12 Psycape Pg 19 - Harvesting of Souls - "This is the power of the Harvester to literally rip the soul of his victim and binds it to himself. The foul death mage then gains the PPE of his victim which is added to his own PPE base."
Rule 2 - WB18 Mystic Russia - Level 14 Return from Grave spell - "Hit points are equal to twice the Necromancer's base PPE at the time of his death."

The prime candidate for such soul-capture is a lizard mage according to my research so far because they are easier to kill than dragons and they produce 3 times more PPE in return.

Let's say the Harvester is 15th level and he has captured 30 Lizard Mages Souls.

Each Lizard Mage has 3000 PPE max. 30x3000 PPE = 90000 PPE. Upon Vampirification, the Harvester will have 90000x2=180000 Hit Points.

Owned.

Yes this is technicaly legal, now lets see you do this starting with a 1st level character. I will be waiting to see posts of your adventures as you try to achieve this.

The true value of this character lies not in his 180,000 hit points. As I said before, he is still a vampire and thus can be killed in a number of ways.

However, this guy has the potential to start a cult, especially a cult of Murder-Wraiths and secondary Vampires. The ability to raise an army plus the fact that the leader of the army is an especially powerful figure - that is where real power lies.

A few flaws in this combo:
1. A Harvester only gets 2D6+10 HPs per soul(and only 2 souls per level), so I have no idea where the OP is getting 180,000 HPs.
2. On pg 20 under the Harvester vulnerabilities, it states that psychics are immune to the soul harvesting ritual, so no Lizard mages for the Harvester, but there are plenty on other high PPE creatures with no psionic powers to drain though.

I had made a Godling Harvester/Shifter/Mystic Knight once that had close to 200,000 MDC and over 300,000 PPE. (Take a peek at some of the Dragon gods of the Dragonwright, nasty amounts of PPE and no psionic powers)

Anthar wrote:A few flaws in this combo:
1. A Harvester only gets 2D6+10 HPs per soul(and only 2 souls per level), so I have no idea where the OP is getting 180,000 HPs.

When a necromancer casts the 14th level Vampirification spell Return from Grave, the hit points of the newly formed Master Vampire is calculated by doubling the existing PPE base.

Anthar wrote:2. On pg 20 under the Harvester vulnerabilities, it states that psychics are immune to the soul harvesting ritual, so no Lizard mages for the Harvester, but there are plenty on other high PPE creatures with no psionic powers to drain though.

The Lizard Mages have no natural regenerating powers. So capture the Lizard Mage, put debilitating cybernetics on him which will destroy both his psionics and magic powers making him a non-psychic.

Then use the soul ritual on him. Viola.

But seriously man, the power of this guy isn't in his 180,000 HP. A stake through the heart will ignore than gross number in less than a minute.

However, under the right circumstances, if you use him as an offensive chess-piece or a defensive damage soaker, he is gonna be a juggernaut.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote: So are you saying there is only one lizard mage in the entire rifts universe?

No not the only Lizard Mage in the entire Universe .. but were not talking about the Entire Universe. Were Talking about Rifts earth .. Circa 109 PA .. (current timeline) Are we not ?

So why do you switch the settings from Rifts Earth .. to the entire Universe ?

crystaleye1950 wrote:Furthermore, can you give me written proof that Soribold is the ONLY lizard Mage on Rifts Earth?

Gimme a break.

Yes I can.

I pose this quandry to you.

Find me another Lizard Mage in all of the Rifts line of Books.

If you can .. then obviously I was wrong, and there might be more then one .. but as it stands right now ..

Soribold is thee only TRUE .. Lizard Mage .. in the Known Rifts Earth. Circa 109 Pa.

I'll wait tho .. just in case you DO .. actually find another one.

Right, so since Soribold is the only known Lizard Mage alive, therefore he should be the only Lizard Mage available on Rifts Earth.

It is impossible that other Lizard Mages might have found their way to Rifts Earth nor is it possible for your Harvester to hunt Lizard Mages in other dimensions. *sarcasm intended*

Man, are you sure you are playing Rifts right? I do bow down to your "superior" intelligence. LOL!

No, he isn't. K'zaa, leader of Stormspire, is also a Lizard Mage. And he's much worse. He has as much money as he wants, as many TW items as he wants, and pretty much lives in a nigh unassailable tower while protected by an entire city of greedy mercenaries.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Mallak's Place wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:What happens if a non-psychic Mortal SDC Necromancer turns into a Soul Harvester, leeches off thousands of PPE from all the dragons and gods he killed and used the Level 14 Necro-Spell Return from Grave?

A legal Master Vampire with thousands of hit points.
Rule 1- WB12 Psycape Pg 19 - Harvesting of Souls - "This is the power of the Harvester to literally rip the soul of his victim and binds it to himself. The foul death mage then gains the PPE of his victim which is added to his own PPE base."
Rule 2 - WB18 Mystic Russia - Level 14 Return from Grave spell - "Hit points are equal to twice the Necromancer's base PPE at the time of his death."

The prime candidate for such soul-capture is a lizard mage according to my research so far because they are easier to kill than dragons and they produce 3 times more PPE in return.

Let's say the Harvester is 15th level and he has captured 30 Lizard Mages Souls.

Each Lizard Mage has 3000 PPE max. 30x3000 PPE = 90000 PPE. Upon Vampirification, the Harvester will have 90000x2=180000 Hit Points.

Owned.

Yes this is technicaly legal, now lets see you do this starting with a 1st level character. I will be waiting to see posts of your adventures as you try to achieve this.

The true value of this character lies not in his 180,000 hit points. As I said before, he is still a vampire and thus can be killed in a number of ways.

However, this guy has the potential to start a cult, especially a cult of Murder-Wraiths and secondary Vampires. The ability to raise an army plus the fact that the leader of the army is an especially powerful figure - that is where real power lies.

That's true.. can't wait to hear about how you are going to do it with this character.

Lenwen wrote:A single 15th lvl Lizard Mage is not going to be just lvl 15 in 1 area of magic .. but lvl 15 in multiple area's .. thus the true danger of the Lizard Mage. A single Lizard Mage would be able to take out an entire sect of Dark Harvesters with little to no ease ..

I assume you mean little to no difficulty.

/Sub

Lenwen wrote:Conversion book 1 has been outdated .. and Soribold is the single known Lizard Mage known in Rifts Earth.

As of 109 PA.

Canonly speaking. And Soribold would own every single Harvester .. one on one .. or Soribold would own Harvester's .. Covens .. all by his self ..

It would be litterally easier to take down a dragon .. then it would a Lizard Mage.

No - there is at least one other, and I think two others. There's the one who went through that Rift in Atlantis and came out with his powers stripped from him and the other that runs Stormspire.

/Sub

Lenwen wrote:Soribold is thee only TRUE .. Lizard Mage .. in the Known Rifts Earth. Circa 109 Pa.

I'll wait tho .. just in case you DO .. actually find another one.

There are two others mentioned and that only three are mentioned does not mean there are no others. It means there are no others mentioned. How many Floopers are mentioned? That is not evidence that there are no other Floopers.

/Sub

This is a fully leagal character, IMO, but highly unlikely. All these week 30 level Lizsard Mages running around getting punked by a Harvester sounds a bit off.

Great way to make an NPC though.

Mallak's Place wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:What happens if a non-psychic Mortal SDC Necromancer turns into a Soul Harvester, leeches off thousands of PPE from all the dragons and gods he killed and used the Level 14 Necro-Spell Return from Grave?

A legal Master Vampire with thousands of hit points.
Rule 1- WB12 Psycape Pg 19 - Harvesting of Souls - "This is the power of the Harvester to literally rip the soul of his victim and binds it to himself. The foul death mage then gains the PPE of his victim which is added to his own PPE base."
Rule 2 - WB18 Mystic Russia - Level 14 Return from Grave spell - "Hit points are equal to twice the Necromancer's base PPE at the time of his death."

The prime candidate for such soul-capture is a lizard mage according to my research so far because they are easier to kill than dragons and they produce 3 times more PPE in return.

Let's say the Harvester is 15th level and he has captured 30 Lizard Mages Souls.

Each Lizard Mage has 3000 PPE max. 30x3000 PPE = 90000 PPE. Upon Vampirification, the Harvester will have 90000x2=180000 Hit Points.

Owned.

Yes this is technicaly legal, now lets see you do this starting with a 1st level character. I will be waiting to see posts of your adventures as you try to achieve this.

OK after a intense discussion with my 2 year olf daughter while changing her diaper she informed me of several things that would make this not possable

#1: The spell Return from the Grave says it's the haracter base P.P.E. a Harvester only has a base P.P.E. of his P.E. X2 any gained through the harvesting of souls is extra and do not count.

#2: Vampires are Psychics and Harvesters can't be Psychics.. so the minute the caster became a Vampire they would lose all of their Harvester abilities and Harvested Souls.


So No this isn't legal.

Thinyser wrote:

Iron Manticore wrote:Sunlight = poof!

Actually since the character would have thousands of HP and only takes 1d6x10 HP every 15 seconds when exposed to direct sun (and then regenerates 2d6 HP 15 seconds later) a character like this should be able to survive in the sun for a long time.

Might I point out that the regeneration only takes place after they exit the sunlight, not while they are in it.

You can break virtually any system if you try. That's something I've had to tell my clients any number of times when they do stupid things with software and expect it to respond as if they were behaving in a rational manner with the software.

So, you can make a Lizard Mage Maxi-Killer if you want (not positive that it'd work, but I see nothing barring it...if that isn't allowed, you can always use a Monster Brodkil instead), but it's not going to be a whole lot of fun.

/Sub

crystaleye1950 wrote:What happens if a non-psychic Mortal SDC Necromancer turns into a Soul Harvester, leeches off thousands of PPE from all the dragons and gods he killed and used the Level 14 Necro-Spell Return from Grave?

A legal Master Vampire with thousands of hit points.
Rule 1- WB12 Psycape Pg 19 - Harvesting of Souls - "This is the power of the Harvester to literally rip the soul of his victim and binds it to himself. The foul death mage then gains the PPE of his victim which is added to his own PPE base."
Rule 2 - WB18 Mystic Russia - Level 14 Return from Grave spell - "Hit points are equal to twice the Necromancer's base PPE at the time of his death."

The prime candidate for such soul-capture is a lizard mage according to my research so far because they are easier to kill than dragons and they produce 3 times more PPE in return.

Let's say the Harvester is 15th level and he has captured 30 Lizard Mages Souls.

Each Lizard Mage has 3000 PPE max. 30x3000 PPE = 90000 PPE. Upon Vampirification, the Harvester will have 90000x2=180000 Hit Points.

Owned.

I smell Munchkin!! Interesting idea, using him as a defensive unit. I would capture him, clap him in CS anti magic/psionic irons and dump him in the ocean or just stake him and burn him.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Right, so since Soribold is the only known Lizard Mage alive, therefore he should be the only Lizard Mage available on Rifts Earth.

Canonly Speaking. That is correct. If you wish to gimp out the Lizard Mage who is clearly beyond anything you could throw at it .. Harvester / Zombie wise .. just to try to get what you want ..

Thats your call ..

crystaleye1950 wrote:It is impossible that other Lizard Mages might have found their way to Rifts Earth nor is it possible for your Harvester to hunt Lizard Mages in other dimensions.

Again .. Lizard Mages were allies with the Old Ones .. Legends suggest that it was the Lizard Mage who created the Elf.

Again .. 1 Lizard mage alone could rather easily take out a Coven of Harvester's .. Not a single Harvester, but a Coven of Harvester's .. if not simply Drive the entire Harvester and Soulless Zombie's population from the face of Rifts Earth .. nearly single handedly ..

And you think the Harvester's could capture 30 of these Powerful Beings ?

You clearly have no idea of what Power the Lizard Mage really is ..

They were ALLIES .. to the most powerful beings ever created in the Megaverse !! Not thier slaves .. but thier ALLIES ..

Thier as powerful as Gods .. at only 10th lvl .. Master's of Dimensional Travel as well the Ritual you are trying to do will take alotta time, in which time the Mage would easily escape ..

Yet again .. You would be alot easier to kill an Adult or even a Young Dragon .. rather then a Lizard Mage.

I also read that the Lizard Mage is rare .. Having been dealt with by the Forces of Light eons ago after the Great War that seen the Old Ones put to sleep.

Once I find that passage .. I'll post the book an pg# for you. They are a nearly extinct race .

crystaleye1950 wrote:I do bow down to your "superior" intelligence.

Thanks. But I am no Deity, I love these types of scenario's .. I love finding ways around them and its one of the reason that I post this sorta albeit not obviously overt type of stuff myself.

crystaleye1950 wrote:...So capture the Lizard Mage, put debilitating cybernetics on him which will destroy both his psionics and magic powers making him a non-psychic.

yeah, let's review this for a moment. put cybernetics in him which will destroy his magic powers and then steal his magic powers... which he no longer has... because you just destroyed them. good plan.

and frankly, i don't see how this guy would be significantly more threatening with a huge cult/army than a regular master vampire would be with that same cult/army.

sooner or later, it all comes down to the action economy, and the action economy says that a really hard to kill person with no significant offensive power to accompany doesn't make a significant difference in a battle involving hundreds (or thousands, or more) of people.

Shark_Force wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:...So capture the Lizard Mage, put debilitating cybernetics on him which will destroy both his psionics and magic powers making him a non-psychic.

yeah, let's review this for a moment. put cybernetics in him which will destroy his magic powers and then steal his magic powers... which he no longer has... because you just destroyed them. good plan.

and frankly, i don't see how this guy would be significantly more threatening with a huge cult/army than a regular master vampire would be with that same cult/army.

sooner or later, it all comes down to the action economy, and the action economy says that a really hard to kill person with no significant offensive power to accompany doesn't make a significant difference in a battle involving hundreds (or thousands, or more) of people.

Personally think the sillier part of that statement is "Capture the Lizard Mage", though I agree with you totally.

Subjugator wrote:

Lenwen wrote:Conversion book 1 has been outdated .. and Soribold is the single known Lizard Mage known in Rifts Earth.

As of 109 PA.

Canonly speaking. And Soribold would own every single Harvester .. one on one .. or Soribold would own Harvester's .. Covens .. all by his self ..

It would be litterally easier to take down a dragon .. then it would a Lizard Mage.

No - there is at least one other, and I think two others. There's the one who went through that Rift in Atlantis and came out with his powers stripped from him and the other that runs Stormspire.

/Sub

juicer rebellion he works as a alchemist for the soceity of sages
I determine he can do all ritual magic and wards summoning diabolism
just not true magic invocations **** stuff etc

@Mallak
Harvester's description - "The foul mage then adds the PPE of the victim to his own PPE base."
Return from Grave's description - "Hit Points equal to Necromancer's base PPE at the time of his death."

This implies that the PPE base includes the additional PPE doesn't it? Because surely the Necromancer's base PPE has expanded at the time of his death? Of course you can play a game of words and argue that PPE base means only the PPE which you start out with.

If that is the case, go start your own thread about the real definition of a PPE base then. Thanks.

@everyone else

Alright forget the damn lizard mages then.

Why not capture gods, or major elementals or any dragons without psychic powers?

FYI, major elementals have 1800 - 2400 PPE max. Let's use a conservative figure of 1000 PPE per soul then.

So yeah I figure an average 15th level harvester would have 30 souls = 30 x 1000 PPE = 30000 PPE as his base.

And 30000 PPE x 2 upon Return from Grave = 60000 MDC

Still a mean vampire in my book.

I do not know why I am wasting so much time on this guy. He isn't even a major character in my scenario anyway.

[quote="Shark_Force"]
and frankly, i don't see how this guy would be significantly more threatening with a huge cult/army than a regular master vampire would be with that same cult/army. [quote]

Look at the big picture. Hehehe

i am looking at the big picture. if he isn't more powerful in battle than some idiot with a laser pistol, it doesn't really matter how hard he is to kill. if you want me to be scared of this guy, you need to give me a reason to worry about what he's going to do. and the only reason to be scared of some lame master vampire with thousands of hit points and an army, is the part about having an army. against a reasonably prepared group, the vampire with thousands of hit points will just die, or at best be able to run away. the only part of this that feels remotely threatening is the part where he has an army.

crystaleye1950 wrote:@everyone else

Alright forget the damn lizard mages then.

Why not capture gods, or major elementals or any dragons without psychic powers?

Gods .. I mean honestly you think a mere Mortal Harvester's are going to be able to incapacitate for one second let me reread it .. 40 Minutes !!



Your either playing the Gods (30 of them mind you) as 100% complete idiots .. and Harvester's 100% completely as a different OCC .. show me how any Harvester/Harvester's .. are going to be able to keep 1 God incapacitated for 40 minutes ..

Then Show me how your going to keep 30 Gods .. incapacitated .. for 40 minutes EACH ...

With this logic .. why not just go after other Intelligences !!

crystaleye1950 wrote:FYI, major elementals have 1800 - 2400 PPE max. Let's use a conservative figure of 1000 PPE per soul then.

So yeah I figure an average 15th level harvester would have 30 souls = 30 x 1000 PPE = 30000 PPE as his base.

I'd allow the Elemental thing to happen if you could stop it from dimensionally teleporting or escaping. Harvester's have no abilities that would help them in either summoning Elementals .. nor Holding Elementals .. in place for 40 minutes .. so the required ritual would be able to take place.

crystaleye1950 wrote: And 30000 PPE x 2 upon Return from Grave = 60000 MDC

Vampires are not MDC creatures they are HP/SDC Creatures. 60'000 Hp' = 60'000 Hp's not MDC ..
1 Stake, 1 Sword, 2 Match's ..

60'000 Hp Master Vampire = Dead.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Still a mean vampire in my book.

Truly a 60'000 Hp Vampire even with the stupid weakness's would be a mean Vampire by anyone's standards.

crystaleye1950 wrote: I do not know why I am wasting so much time on this guy. He isn't even a major character in my scenario anyway.

Because its a VERY clever use of two abilities. I'd allow it in my games . Course in my games .. he would be just as easily delt with .. again ..
1-Stake
1-Sword
2-Matches

And he would be dead.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Iron Manticore wrote:Sunlight = poof!

Actually since the character would have thousands of HP and only takes 1d6x10 HP every 15 seconds when exposed to direct sun (and then regenerates 2d6 HP 15 seconds later) a character like this should be able to survive in the sun for a long time.

Might I point out that the regeneration only takes place after they exit the sunlight, not while they are in it.

You might but i'd disagree since i just reread the sunlight vs vampire section in VK and it did not say anything at all about having to wait till it was not in sunlight to regenerate... tho attacks and movement are reduced to 1/3.

Thinyser wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Iron Manticore wrote:Sunlight = poof!

Actually since the character would have thousands of HP and only takes 1d6x10 HP every 15 seconds when exposed to direct sun (and then regenerates 2d6 HP 15 seconds later) a character like this should be able to survive in the sun for a long time.

Might I point out that the regeneration only takes place after they exit the sunlight, not while they are in it.

You might but i'd disagree since i just reread the sunlight vs vampire section in VK and it did not say anything at all about having to wait till it was not in sunlight to regenerate... tho attacks and movement are reduced to 1/3.

Thinyser ..

Vampires stuck out in the light of Day .. lose all powers .. to include regeneration. They are still able to move around with severe penalties ..

But the fact remains .. they can not use any Powers they have .. they can not change into mist .. they can not change into a wolf .. they can not change into a bat .. they can not use thier psionic powers .. they can not regenerate ..

In Sunlight .. Vampires are powerless .. 100% completely unable to use any of thier powers .. as it is written in Vampire Kingdoms ..