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jaymz wrote:Oh hell YEAH I'll be stating some of these babies up. Anyoepoint this at Kevin et al? I would imagine that HG would have material similar to his as well.............Space optimized Cyclones, Grond optimized Alphas......oh my this is SWEET.

Snake Eyes wrote:pgs 88-90 looked like new Cyclone types..........very cool art

jaymz wrote:

Snake Eyes wrote:pgs 88-90 looked like new Cyclone types..........very cool art

Aparently one is a space optimized one that transforms into an astro bike and the other one transforms into a hovercycle....some very nice stuff throughout

The Legioss is the successor to the Condor Armo-Fighter that was used during the first drop operation

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:Anyone see the notes on page 99 notice this:

The Legioss is the successor to the Condor Armo-Fighter that was used during the first drop operation

I'd love to hear Tommy Yune's excuse this time.

Envelope M2 includes sketches that introduce a variety of non-transforming robots to fill specific
combat support roles (reminiscent of another show that featured transforming jet fighters fighting aliens).

Human side armo-soldier.
Type 99.

Mecha dropping from orbit, coming
through the clouds, parachute open
and gunning the engines.

M3-14
Early Condor firing all missiles.
6/7/83

M3-16
Early Condor and other non-transforming mecha on battlefield.

glitterboy2098 wrote:
the visual evidence in these preproduction sketches indicate the condor was being developed as a non-transforming bot by the art department.


also, did anyone notice that on pg59 you have a "boxer" non-transforming mecha mounted on the early TREAD platform? it looks like some of these battloid types could access the same accessory's as the legioss..which could explain the condor as well. battloid mode only..but able to be mounted on a TREAD booster for use as a fighter.

glitterboy2098 wrote:how about pg 50?

Envelope M2 includes sketches that introduce a variety of non-transforming robots to fill specific combat support roles (reminiscent of another show that featured transforming jet fighters fighting aliens).

followed quickly by pg51, which shows the condor alongside some of those non-transforming mecha?

73?

Human side armo-soldier.
Type 99.

or 83?

Mecha dropping from orbit, coming
through the clouds, parachute open
and gunning the engines.

M3-14
Early Condor firing all missiles.
6/7/83

page 85

M3-16
Early Condor and other non-transforming mecha on battlefield.

the visual evidence in these preproduction sketches indicate the condor was being developed as a non-transforming bot by the art department.

Robot Urchin wrote:Someone has found some Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross & MOSPEADA pre-production sketches. I don't know if this is newly discovered stuff or stuff that's been out there for quite a while.

http://sites.google.com/site/imaifiles/

taalismn wrote:Against my better judgement of 'Don't get involved in Condor debates', I'll opine that since the few times we see the Condor in flight, it is in battloid mode and apparently descending paratrooper style(though evidence of a chute isn't clear even in the development art....that looks more like it's Itano'ing its missile stores) the stowed wings could be carapace shielding(protecting the upper arms from behind), or help airflow in descents...

My personal opinion? The idea of a transformable Condor is intriguing, but until actual preproduction art appears showing a fully transformed mode, I find the take that it was a line of variable frame development that didn't pan out as expected and was instead salvaged as a Battloid weapons system to be more interesting...I mean, look at the various aircraft programs in real life that started out trying to meet one set of specifications and wound up being re-tasked to something else...The scrapped Missileer carrier aircraft concept and the F-111 'Multi-Service Fighter' that ended up as simply a tactical bomber, while many of its design features went on to see service in the superior Tomcat(which did the Missileer better by being a superior weapons platform)...or the original prototypes for the F-18, originally meant to be a low-cost 'light' fighter that 'morphed instead into the heavier Hornet...
The Condor isn't diminished any by the fact that it never properly fledges, IMHO, and it gives some insight as to how the UEEF(or the original MOSPEADA colonial military services) procured new hardware and developed ideas to operational stage.

DhAkael wrote:

taalismn wrote:Against my better judgement of 'Don't get involved in Condor debates', I'll opine that since the few times we see the Condor in flight, it is in battloid mode and apparently descending paratrooper style(though evidence of a chute isn't clear even in the development art....that looks more like it's Itano'ing its missile stores) the stowed wings could be carapace shielding(protecting the upper arms from behind), or help airflow in descents...

My personal opinion? The idea of a transformable Condor is intriguing, but until actual preproduction art appears showing a fully transformed mode, I find the take that it was a line of variable frame development that didn't pan out as expected and was instead salvaged as a Battloid weapons system to be more interesting...I mean, look at the various aircraft programs in real life that started out trying to meet one set of specifications and wound up being re-tasked to something else...The scrapped Missileer carrier aircraft concept and the F-111 'Multi-Service Fighter' that ended up as simply a tactical bomber, while many of its design features went on to see service in the superior Tomcat(which did the Missileer better by being a superior weapons platform)...or the original prototypes for the F-18, originally meant to be a low-cost 'light' fighter that 'morphed instead into the heavier Hornet...
The Condor isn't diminished any by the fact that it never properly fledges, IMHO, and it gives some insight as to how the UEEF(or the original MOSPEADA colonial military services) procured new hardware and developed ideas to operational stage.

Arnie100 wrote:I wonder if any of these will be in the Marines book, hmmm...

Robot Urchin wrote:

Alpha 11 wrote:Like the pictures. Good find.

I've ordered one of the books listed in the further reading section, MOSPEADA complete art works (a 2009 publication, if you can believe it), from an import site. It's all in Japanese, but it's mostly big pictures - at least that's what the product description reads. I think it's all recap stuff though.

taalismn wrote:Agreed...we need awesomeness...there is no such thing as too much awesomeness....Awesomeness overkill is not a concept I subscribe to nor believe in...When I die, I hope it is by awesomeness.

jaymz wrote:[


No it'll be by that funny rash you got

!!

taalismn wrote:Funny rash? WHAT funny ras-AAGGGHHHH!!! NANITE INFESTATION! GREY GO-(*blurp*scrubble*bubble*splosh*)

Gamer wrote:How he got some of the new acme bio mass to elephant enema conversion nanites on him we'll never know, but as they say waste not, want not, now where's Simba

mechanimorph wrote:I'm also waiting for someone's writeup of the E-104 Ghost Falcon Drone I shall name him.... Laaaaazerbeak

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

mechanimorph wrote:I'm also waiting for someone's writeup of the E-104 Ghost Falcon Drone I shall name him.... Laaaaazerbeak

I would think it should replace the RAT-1 Pegasus recce drone (robo horse...uh, ok...but dont make it a flying robo-horse).

mechanimorph wrote:So skimming through some of the Southern Cross stuff, am I the only one thinking that the original concept with all the armours was some sort of feudal Shogun thing? As in the different forces (ATAC, TASC, REP etc) were actually factions?

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:::Does a little thread Necromancy::

Oogaa-booga-allakazam!

Anyway, it didn't occur to me until recently skimming the designs that the non-transformable MOSPEADA sketch bears a little resemblance to the Strike Force Micronian Powered Armour. Not that I think Palladium saw those sketches years ago (though anything is possible, I suppose). Apparently Wayne Breaux had the same idea as Kakinuma/Aramaki had all those years ago. The idea of a non-transformable exoskeletal powered armour for the UEF that utilizes CVR-3 would be good I think. Should be able to interface with any of the Cyclone forearm weapons systems.

Something else I noticed is how startlingly similar the new CBR-5 from Shadow Chronicles is to the old RDF armour from Strike Force.

jaymz wrote:Actually, oddly enough I went that route as soon as I go tmy hands on the Imai files. Left the Micronian as it was essentially then used some of the images to stat out the Micronian Mk II, III and IV.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

jaymz wrote:Actually, oddly enough I went that route as soon as I go tmy hands on the Imai files. Left the Micronian as it was essentially then used some of the images to stat out the Micronian Mk II, III and IV.

Actually, after thinking about it, I went ahead and used the non-transformable MOSPEADA to replace the Micronian Powered Armour for my Alternate Robotech (the helmet on the MPA is an SDF Macross design after all). I call it the Grimnir Jump Armour and think it would be more common than the Cyclone, but not common enough to replace the standard Infantry dogface in body armour.

I also used the 2x3 pop-up grenade launchers for the VR-052F Battler (called it the GR-104 Heavy Grenade Launcher System) to outfit the basic Battler, since the GR-97 isn't enough in my opinion. Of course, I have the EP-40 used mostly by VR-041 Grenadiers (which I make the basic Infantry/Anti-Armor Cyclone).

jaymz wrote:

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

jaymz wrote:Actually, oddly enough I went that route as soon as I go tmy hands on the Imai files. Left the Micronian as it was essentially then used some of the images to stat out the Micronian Mk II, III and IV.

Actually, after thinking about it, I went ahead and used the non-transformable MOSPEADA to replace the Micronian Powered Armour for my Alternate Robotech (the helmet on the MPA is an SDF Macross design after all). I call it the Grimnir Jump Armour and think it would be more common than the Cyclone, but not common enough to replace the standard Infantry dogface in body armour.

I also used the 2x3 pop-up grenade launchers for the VR-052F Battler (called it the GR-104 Heavy Grenade Launcher System) to outfit the basic Battler, since the GR-97 isn't enough in my opinion. Of course, I have the EP-40 used mostly by VR-041 Grenadiers (which I make the basic Infantry/Anti-Armor Cyclone).

I used those images too. Made them a chest system for the -053 and -054 Cyclones Basically a variation of the -052 obviously. I decided the -052 was meant to be an emergency unit thus not chest launcher. Mind you I also dropped the MDC on teh -50 series to not that much more than the -040 series so.....

jaymz wrote:EDIT - Also I did my own stats for hte -055 and my own stats for hte -057.....I need to come up with an -056 at some point maybe....either way, I redid the Tornado as a protoype (whichit essentially was) along with teh original micronian and a second cyclone protype based on some of hte Imai images again along with 3 prototype, limited production pre CVR-3 armours too.

The UEEF went with series numbers and block designations to differentiate between cyclone types. The tens digit denotes the series number. The numbers -020 denote the first infantry combat models, the numbers -030 denotes a Lt Cyclone, the numbers -040 denotes an cyclone intended for heavy infantry use which replaced the -020 series, and the numbers -050 denotes the “catch all” model for pilot survival, general labor, engineering and heavy weapons platforms. The ones digit denotes the block model. For example in the anime, Lancer had a “Block 1” VR-40, that is designated the VR-41. The letter designation denotes which interchangeable armament package the cyclone has. For instance Lancer was using a VR-041H model denoting the use of CADS-1. A single letter denotes single armament package while two letters denote a separate package attached to each arm shield, the first letter is for the right arm and the second letter is for the left arm. Some of the armament packages are loaded on the right shoulder hard point of the cyclone; in this case there will be three letters with the last designating what is mounted on the shoulder.

jedi078 wrote:

jaymz wrote:EDIT - Also I did my own stats for hte -055 and my own stats for hte -057.....I need to come up with an -056 at some point maybe....either way, I redid the Tornado as a protoype (whichit essentially was) along with teh original micronian and a second cyclone protype based on some of hte Imai images again along with 3 prototype, limited production pre CVR-3 armours too.

You don't have to use ever number..... some could be failed prototypes.

Also you might be interested in the following extra fluff text I use for Cyclone model numbering/designations.

The UEEF went with series numbers and block designations to differentiate between cyclone types. The tens digit denotes the series number. The numbers -020 denote the first infantry combat models, the numbers -030 denotes a Lt Cyclone, the numbers -040 denotes an cyclone intended for heavy infantry use which replaced the -020 series, and the numbers -050 denotes the “catch all” model for pilot survival, general labor, engineering and heavy weapons platforms. The ones digit denotes the block model. For example in the anime, Lancer had a “Block 1” VR-40, that is designated the VR-41. The letter designation denotes which interchangeable armament package the cyclone has. For instance Lancer was using a VR-041H model denoting the use of CADS-1. A single letter denotes single armament package while two letters denote a separate package attached to each arm shield, the first letter is for the right arm and the second letter is for the left arm. Some of the armament packages are loaded on the right shoulder hard point of the cyclone; in this case there will be three letters with the last designating what is mounted on the shoulder.

As you can see I have thrown aside the absurd idea that the VR-052 is the standard infantry model.

jedi078 wrote:As you can see I have thrown aside the absurd idea that the VR-052 is the standard infantry model.

ESalter wrote:

jedi078 wrote:As you can see I have thrown aside the absurd idea that the VR-052 is the standard infantry model.

How is it absurd?

jedi078 wrote:

ESalter wrote:

jedi078 wrote:As you can see I have thrown aside the absurd idea that the VR-052 is the standard infantry model.

How is it absurd?

Why would you not field VR-041's with GR-97 forearm launchers as your main front line infantry combat unit? You’d defiantly get a bigger bang for your buck, and your infantrymen would have the firepower needed to storm Invid hives.

Oh and before you answer: "The RPG and/or RT.com says the VR-042 model was too expensive to be mass produced." Well this is the absurd idea I am talking about.

jedi078 wrote:

ESalter wrote:

jedi078 wrote:As you can see I have thrown aside the absurd idea that the VR-052 is the standard infantry model.

How is it absurd?

Why would you not field VR-041's with GR-97 forearm launchers as your main front line infantry combat unit?

jedi078 wrote:You’d defiantly get a bigger bang for your buck, and your infantrymen would have the firepower needed to storm Invid hives.