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If news get around that the CS was the one to create the anti-PPE and anti-magic Omega monsters, you can be rest assured that all the magic-users in every magic-using North American city, all the demons and dragons and high PPE monsters, all the Native American tribes and maybe even the central american vampire kingdoms will create an unholy alliance to bring down the CS for good or exact vengeance at the very least.

One should never give your enemies a reason for them to form an alliance against you and strike you down together. Divide and Conquer is the only way to keep surviving.

Congrats, Bradford. You have just created the key to the CS's very own demise.

btw 9000 Omegas or even 90,000 Omegas are hardly enough to cull NA of ALL magic users AND Demons AND Dragons. Bradford made a serious miscalculation in underestimating how many Demons and Dragons there are actually in NA.

I just looked at the map again. Lone Star is much closer to the Native Americans & the Central American Vampire Kingdoms than the Federation of Magic.

This means that the Omegas Monsters will be more attracted to the magical energies in Native American and the Mexican Vampire empires. The Federation of Magic is hardly the first target to be approached.

Even if ALL the Omega Monsters were to miraculously move north-east from Lone Star, there is a major collection of nexus points at St Louis - 18 nexus points and more than a hundred ley-lines. That area is like THE major collection of demons and monsters from other dimensions.

The majority of the Omega Monsters will definitely converge onto that single PPE-rich area.

Even if the Omega Monsters were to miraculously exterminate every single monster and demon in that area, what's is there to prevent the demons and monsters from calling in more reinforcements through the rifts? The 18 nexus points and 100 ley-lines?

So what we have is a declining army of Omega monsters and a continuously replenishing supply of demons and monsters. In the end, the number of Omega monsters would be reduced to hundreds and the number of demons and monsters in St. Louis will remain the same through replenishment.

The way I see it, Dweomer, Brass and other magic-using cities would hardly be touched.

Bradford is indeed no politician. Or maybe we should say, KB is no strategist.

Bradford has just created the key to the CS's demise for very little gains. Very little gains indeed.

justicar5 wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Bradford has just created the key to the CS's demise for very little gains. Very little gains indeed.

The CS? No, look the Omegas would go the the nearest big perma-rift and form an all you can eat buffet for the big bads that come out of it, until the big bads finish them off. and the n the big bads either go 'well thats a weird B-Dee, but was cruchy and tasted good with ketchup' or 'which of my standard box of interdimensional enemies tried to kill me off THIS time' Nothing links the Omegas to the CS iirc (and if anything doers file the serial numbers off before sending them into combat, seriously)

The witnesses aka adventurers from Machinations of Doom are still alive. Plus the data which they downloaded from Lone Star's computer.

What is needed is for those witnesses to be escorted to the various magic nations or native american camps and have some psychics extract their memory to see if these witnesses are telling the truth.

If needed, a high-level kidnapping team will insert into Lone Star complex and kidnap those docters working on this project.

Damn, rifts just get more interesting once you throw politics into the mix.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Bradford has just created the key to the CS's demise for very little gains. Very little gains indeed.

It's just a story and not canon to the best of my knowledge.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Bradford has just created the key to the CS's demise for very little gains. Very little gains indeed.

It's just a story and not canon to the best of my knowledge.

It is canon matey. Stats have been written for it. There is even a whole book dedicated to it.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Dustin Fireblade wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Bradford has just created the key to the CS's demise for very little gains. Very little gains indeed.

It's just a story and not canon to the best of my knowledge.

It is canon matey. Stats have been written for it. There is even a whole book dedicated to it.

What book?

Xar wrote:Machinations of Doom

Yep, reprints the entire comic as well as stats for everyone including the monsters etc. She is indeed canon, just like Argent Goodson, Archie-3's "son"

The Omega beast is going to be a key element of my next Rifts game.

The comic in the Rifters was put in the book "Machinations of Doom" and there were stats given for all the key personalities and all the creatures.

But to be honest the "whole key to strike down the CS" is nothing but meta gaming to me, who even knows the creatures exist beyond Bradford.
The Chimp only knew of the Alpha project, not the omega project.
Bradford seems to be the type who keeps his "pet" scientists working on one project or only part of a project like some military contractors do today with sensitive projects.
The heroes down loaded various genetic data nobody knows if the info they have contains details on the omega beast or even the Aishwarra beast that the "heroes" fought and saw destroyed and the two different beasts don't even look the same, so its a leap that they'd connect the two if they ever saw the much smaller, less powerful Omega.
Who is going to know that the Omegas where a product of Lonestar facility?
There are already a lot of creatures out there that people swear is a creation of Lonestar but really aren't.
It will be seen as yet another rumor until some serious evidence is given, and that evidence may not even exist.
Bradford let them escape, he is letting them take the data file to where ever it ends up, they are being used and most likely set up by Bradford.
It's not like the Omegas are just going to trundle out the front door of Lonestar, Bradford will most likely set them down in specific spots.
The Omegas are hardly a challege for any Dragon beyond hatchlings and with the increased Splugorth raider and slaver activity in North America the released Omegas will actually help in dealing with them.

It is hardly anything that will spell the doom for the CS, barely a worth mentioning let alone the key to strike them down.

jaymz wrote:

Xar wrote:Machinations of Doom

Yep, reprints the entire comic as well as stats for everyone including the monsters etc. She is indeed canon, just like Argent Goodson, Archie-3's "son"

Where does it speak of Argent Goodson? I noticed the name mentioned in Shemarrian Nation and don't recognize it.

I'm in the same boat as GK in terms of planning to unleash some Omega goodness on my PC's, but I was using my own created magic eating swarm from an earlier campaign before Machinations came out. To tell the truth, the Omegas are much better than what I was planning on using!

Grell wrote:Where does it speak of Argent Goodson? I noticed the name mentioned in Shemarrian Nation and don't recognize it.

A.R.C.H.I.E. Three vs. The World in Rifter # 4. It may have been reprinted in something else, but I can't think of it at the moment.

Grell wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Xar wrote:Machinations of Doom

Yep, reprints the entire comic as well as stats for everyone including the monsters etc. She is indeed canon, just like Argent Goodson, Archie-3's "son"

Where does it speak of Argent Goodson? I noticed the name mentioned in Shemarrian Nation and don't recognize it.

I'm in the same boat as GK in terms of planning to unleash some Omega goodness on my PC's, but I was using my own created magic eating swarm from an earlier campaign before Machinations came out. To tell the truth, the Omegas are much better than what I was planning on using!

Sorry what I said was a bit misleading. I was merely meaning the machinations of doom events were canon like ARgent Goodson. He is an android created by Archie-3, his "son" of sorts, to be the face and CEO of Titan Robotics. First appearance and stats are in Rifter #4 which is an official articly to rifts canon. He has since been mentioned in SB1R and Shem Nation. Though I think he is referred to in SPlynn as well (twin "brother" leading a resistance against the Splugorth with Mechanoid bots....or was that a different articel....)

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Dustin Fireblade wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Bradford has just created the key to the CS's demise for very little gains. Very little gains indeed.

It's just a story and not canon to the best of my knowledge.

It is canon matey. Stats have been written for it. There is even a whole book dedicated to it.

I'm pretty sure it is NOT canon. The book was basically printed to make some cash for Palladium, same as the coloring book.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Dustin Fireblade wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Bradford has just created the key to the CS's demise for very little gains. Very little gains indeed.

It's just a story and not canon to the best of my knowledge.

It is canon matey. Stats have been written for it. There is even a whole book dedicated to it.

I'm pretty sure it is NOT canon. The book was basically printed to make some cash for Palladium, same as the coloring book.

It's canon.

Well I don't have it in front of me but I seem to recall there was some errors in it as far as matching other books, and another thread discussing if it was canon. Can't say I recall as to what since I haven't opened it since I got the book, other than the "Jin-Ro" name for the Grackle Tooth - it wasn't repeated in the D-Bee's of North America book on the Grackle Tooth entry.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Well I don't have it in front of me but I seem to recall there was some errors in it as far as matching other books, and another thread discussing if it was canon. Can't say I recall as to what since I haven't opened it since I got the book, other than the "Jin-Ro" name for the Grackle Tooth - it wasn't repeated in the D-Bee's of North America book on the Grackle Tooth entry.

Those two books were being developed at exactly the same time, and both came out right before the 2007 Open House. So, it's more an error in that the Jin-Ro name didn't get added into the DBoNA book. MoD was layed out digitally, in a different process, and DBoNA was prepared in a more standard way. Different process, and a small detail missed.

I wouldn't read anything more into it that that.

Gamer wrote:The comic in the Rifters was put in the book "Machinations of Doom" and there were stats given for all the key personalities and all the creatures.

But to be honest the "whole key to strike down the CS" is nothing but meta gaming to me, who even knows the creatures exist beyond Bradford.
The Chimp only knew of the Alpha project, not the omega project.
Bradford seems to be the type who keeps his "pet" scientists working on one project or only part of a project like some military contractors do today with sensitive projects.
The heroes down loaded various genetic data nobody knows if the info they have contains details on the omega beast or even the Aishwarra beast that the "heroes" fought and saw destroyed and the two different beasts don't even look the same, so its a leap that they'd connect the two if they ever saw the much smaller, less powerful Omega.
Who is going to know that the Omegas where a product of Lonestar facility?
There are already a lot of creatures out there that people swear is a creation of Lonestar but really aren't.
It will be seen as yet another rumor until some serious evidence is given, and that evidence may not even exist.
Bradford let them escape, he is letting them take the data file to where ever it ends up, they are being used and most likely set up by Bradford.
It's not like the Omegas are just going to trundle out the front door of Lonestar, Bradford will most likely set them down in specific spots.
The Omegas are hardly a challege for any Dragon beyond hatchlings and with the increased Splugorth raider and slaver activity in North America the released Omegas will actually help in dealing with them.

It is hardly anything that will spell the doom for the CS, barely a worth mentioning let alone the key to strike them down.

Your political naivety is indeed laughable. It is true that the the Omegas are hardly any challenge but if you have psychics probing the witnesses' memories for what really happened, then the higher-ups in any magic-using nation are gonna be real pissed off with the CS.

Especially the Native Americans, camp Apache, who is just next to Lone Star.

Even if you have separate departments working on the same project, are you going to claim that there is not even one single docter besides Bradford who knows about the ultimate aim of the Omega projects?

We are talking about kidnapping the head researchers of the Omega projects. Researchers like Docter Alexander and Docter Heston, the chimp, who knows about these projects.

So are you telling me there are only 2 docters in the whole Lone Star complex who knows about the truth and there is no one else who knows the truth? Please, I know you wanna protect your beloved CS and any fool would see that your answer is too naive and childish.

crystaleye1950 wrote:
Your political naivety is indeed laughable. It is true that the the Omegas are hardly any challenge but if you have psychics probing the witnesses' memories for what really happened, then the higher-ups in any magic-using nation are gonna be real pissed off with the CS.

Especially the Native Americans, camp Apache, who is just next to Lone Star.

Even if you have separate departments working on the same project, are you going to claim that there is not even one single docter besides Bradford who knows about the ultimate aim of the Omega projects?

We are talking about kidnapping the head researchers of the Omega projects. Researchers like Docter Alexander and Docter Heston, the chimp, who knows about these projects.

So are you telling me there are only 2 docters in the whole Lone Star complex who knows about the truth and there is no one else who knows the truth? Please, I know you wanna protect your beloved CS and any fool would see that your answer is too naive and childish.

You might want to drop some of the hostility.

Anyway yeah it's entirely possible there are are only a few doctors at Lone Star that know of the project. Dr Alexander for example is one of the BEST working there and his description in the Lone Star book even specifically mentions there are projects he knows nothing about.

Xar wrote:

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Well I don't have it in front of me but I seem to recall there was some errors in it as far as matching other books, and another thread discussing if it was canon. Can't say I recall as to what since I haven't opened it since I got the book, other than the "Jin-Ro" name for the Grackle Tooth - it wasn't repeated in the D-Bee's of North America book on the Grackle Tooth entry.

Those two books were being developed at exactly the same time, and both came out right before the 2007 Open House. So, it's more an error in that the Jin-Ro name didn't get added into the DBoNA book. MoD was layed out digitally, in a different process, and DBoNA was prepared in a more standard way. Different process, and a small detail missed.

I wouldn't read anything more into it that that.

Good point.

I doubt if the story will ever be touched again though.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:
Your political naivety is indeed laughable. It is true that the the Omegas are hardly any challenge but if you have psychics probing the witnesses' memories for what really happened, then the higher-ups in any magic-using nation are gonna be real pissed off with the CS.

Especially the Native Americans, camp Apache, who is just next to Lone Star.

Even if you have separate departments working on the same project, are you going to claim that there is not even one single docter besides Bradford who knows about the ultimate aim of the Omega projects?

We are talking about kidnapping the head researchers of the Omega projects. Researchers like Docter Alexander and Docter Heston, the chimp, who knows about these projects.

So are you telling me there are only 2 docters in the whole Lone Star complex who knows about the truth and there is no one else who knows the truth? Please, I know you wanna protect your beloved CS and any fool would see that your answer is too naive and childish.

You might want to drop some of the hostility.

Anyway yeah it's entirely possible there are are only a few doctors at Lone Star that know of the project. Dr Alexander for example is one of the BEST working there and his description in the Lone Star book even specifically mentions there are projects he knows nothing about.

No offense. It is just that some of the reasonings which are given on these boards (not referring to you) are really naive and do not fit in with how the real world works.

Rifts might be a fantasy game but the politics and human manipulation games are just as real as the real world. They are based on events in the real world actually and real world politics is never that naive.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:
Anyway yeah it's entirely possible there are are only a few doctors at Lone Star that know of the project. Dr Alexander for example is one of the BEST working there and his description in the Lone Star book even specifically mentions there are projects he knows nothing about.

You can always form a spying/kidnapping party with reliable representatives from the various magic-using nations and snuck into Lone Star with cameras so that evidence can be recorded.

That would be a whole adventure campaign hook by itself. Imagine a spying/kidnapping party formed up of lazlo, tolkeen, federation of magic, native americans and vampires not to mention the demons and dragons.

Would love to see the role-playing and PC interactions on that one.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Dustin Fireblade wrote:
Anyway yeah it's entirely possible there are are only a few doctors at Lone Star that know of the project. Dr Alexander for example is one of the BEST working there and his description in the Lone Star book even specifically mentions there are projects he knows nothing about.

You can always form a spying/kidnapping party with reliable representatives from the various magic-using nations and snuck into Lone Star with cameras so that evidence can be recorded.

That would be a whole adventure campaign hook by itself. Imagine a spying/kidnapping party formed up of lazlo, tolkeen, federation of magic, native americans and vampires not to mention the demons and dragons.

Would love to see the role-playing and PC interactions on that one.

Accept that they cannot get into the Lone Star complex. one of the advantages to having most of the lower levers be EXTREMELY restricted is that no one knows what they llok like. This means no Teleporting in. So with literally thousands od dogboys among all the rest of Lone Stars defenses, how are they going to get in?

Keep in mind that politics are not as simple as "This big bad monster threatens us all, we should all join forces and kill it!". Something you have to consider is that not all of the various are on friendly terms. I imagine that it will be next to impossible to get them all working together. You may even get groups who would want to use the Omegas to their own ends (i.e. use it against their magic using rivals) and not let the messangers live to tell anyone else. There is a lot of mistrust between various factions that will not be easily overcome with mind probes. Mind probes are not infallable, as it is all about what the person being probed believes to be true. As far as the info on the disk, it wouldn't take more than a talented scientist to come up with something convincing. Genetics is not a well known science in North America, so it will be difficult to find someone to make much sense of the info on the disk. I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume that many of the faction leaders will view any messangers as brainwashed patsies with a disk full of fake scientific babble.

Xar wrote:Machinations of Doom

Huh. I always thought it was just a one-time-Rifts-based comic book.

sennin wrote:Keep in mind that politics are not as simple as "This big bad monster threatens us all, we should all join forces and kill it!". Something you have to consider is that not all of the various are on friendly terms. I imagine that it will be next to impossible to get them all working together. You may even get groups who would want to use the Omegas to their own ends (i.e. use it against their magic using rivals) and not let the messangers live to tell anyone else. There is a lot of mistrust between various factions that will not be easily overcome with mind probes. Mind probes are not infallable, as it is all about what the person being probed believes to be true. As far as the info on the disk, it wouldn't take more than a talented scientist to come up with something convincing. Genetics is not a well known science in North America, so it will be difficult to find someone to make much sense of the info on the disk. I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume that many of the faction leaders will view any messangers as brainwashed patsies with a disk full of fake scientific babble.

That would be a matter of role-playing. At the very least, the various factions will have more evidence and ammo to build an alliance against the CS.

This is why an adventuring/kidnapping/spying party consisting of representatives from various factions might be formed to snuck into Lone Star.

An adventuring party has done it before so there is no reason why it can't be done again.

This would be a whole adventuring campaign all by itself.

What if some CS soldiers were captured and they revealed that they were the ones releasing the Omegas into the public?

Elthbert wrote:
Accept that they cannot get into the Lone Star complex. one of the advantages to having most of the lower levers be EXTREMELY restricted is that no one knows what they llok like. This means no Teleporting in. So with literally thousands od dogboys among all the rest of Lone Stars defenses, how are they going to get in?

A normal adventuring party has already snucked in so I would assume a high-level kidnapping/spying party consisting of dragons, vampires, native american shamans, high level psychics and mages would have no problems.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Elthbert wrote:
Accept that they cannot get into the Lone Star complex. one of the advantages to having most of the lower levers be EXTREMELY restricted is that no one knows what they llok like. This means no Teleporting in. So with literally thousands od dogboys among all the rest of Lone Stars defenses, how are they going to get in?

A normal adventuring party has already snucked in so I would assume a high-level kidnapping/spying party consisting of dragons, vampires, native american shamans, high level psychics and mages would have no problems.

You would assume incorrectly. The stronger the magical scent, the more magical equipment, power or nature of the party, the less chance they have of getting in. good old fashion special forces are MUCh more likely to get in than anything that will trip the Dog Boy senses.

And it is snuck or sneaked, not snucked.

I like "has snucked". I will have to try and use it.

More than likely, the vast majority of soldiers working at lonestar have no idea of what's going on there, especially in the lower levels.

As far as a joint strike team being formed, I am going to fall back on the mistrust between the various factions. Just because they want something done, does not mean they are going to work together to get it done.

"The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less." - Howard Taylor

Actually, the number of people required to represent all the groups that you need would make a surgical strike hard to pull off. Not to mention the sheer number of magic users/equipment in the group will be smelled by the dog boys 10 miles away.

Now if a GM is setting this up as a challenging campaign, I can see it being fun. The tricky part is making it insanely challenging, yet still possible. I would say the players would have to be a lot more subtle and leak the info to the various powers instead of just dropping it into their laps.

Elthbert wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Elthbert wrote:
Accept that they cannot get into the Lone Star complex. one of the advantages to having most of the lower levers be EXTREMELY restricted is that no one knows what they llok like. This means no Teleporting in. So with literally thousands od dogboys among all the rest of Lone Stars defenses, how are they going to get in?

A normal adventuring party has already snucked in so I would assume a high-level kidnapping/spying party consisting of dragons, vampires, native american shamans, high level psychics and mages would have no problems.

You would assume incorrectly. The stronger the magical scent, the more magical equipment, power or nature of the party, the less chance they have of getting in. good old fashion special forces are MUCh more likely to get in than anything that will trip the Dog Boy senses.

And it is snuck or sneaked, not snucked.

They are there to kidnap docters and film evidence, fido. As I said before, it is a matter of role-play. Hide PPE and invisibility will hide your scent from any dog-boys anytime.

sennin wrote:More than likely, the vast majority of soldiers working at lonestar have no idea of what's going on there, especially in the lower levels.

As far as a joint strike team being formed, I am going to fall back on the mistrust between the various factions. Just because they want something done, does not mean they are going to work together to get it done.

"The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less." - Howard Taylor

Actually, the number of people required to represent all the groups that you need would make a surgical strike hard to pull off. Not to mention the sheer number of magic users/equipment in the group will be smelled by the dog boys 10 miles away.

Now if a GM is setting this up as a challenging campaign, I can see it being fun. The tricky part is making it insanely challenging, yet still possible. I would say the players would have to be a lot more subtle and leak the info to the various powers instead of just dropping it into their laps.

Hello? Hide PPE and invisibility? The party has a better chance of sneaking into Lone Star and filming the evidence than getting the factions to work together.

Yup, that would be the hard part. Getting the various factions to work together.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Elthbert wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Elthbert wrote:
Accept that they cannot get into the Lone Star complex. one of the advantages to having most of the lower levers be EXTREMELY restricted is that no one knows what they llok like. This means no Teleporting in. So with literally thousands od dogboys among all the rest of Lone Stars defenses, how are they going to get in?

A normal adventuring party has already snucked in so I would assume a high-level kidnapping/spying party consisting of dragons, vampires, native american shamans, high level psychics and mages would have no problems.

You would assume incorrectly. The stronger the magical scent, the more magical equipment, power or nature of the party, the less chance they have of getting in. good old fashion special forces are MUCh more likely to get in than anything that will trip the Dog Boy senses.

And it is snuck or sneaked, not snucked.

They are there to kidnap docters and film evidence, fido. As I said before, it is a matter of role-play. Hide PPE and invisibility will hide your scent from any dog-boys anytime.

Not when the dog boys "smell" the high level of PPE and the active invisibilty spell. They may not be able to see you, but they will know you are there. Also IIRC, any psychic sensative can sense the presence of supernatural evil (i.e. a vampire). Getting past security doors unnoticed can also be a problem.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Elthbert wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Elthbert wrote:
Accept that they cannot get into the Lone Star complex. one of the advantages to having most of the lower levers be EXTREMELY restricted is that no one knows what they llok like. This means no Teleporting in. So with literally thousands od dogboys among all the rest of Lone Stars defenses, how are they going to get in?

A normal adventuring party has already snucked in so I would assume a high-level kidnapping/spying party consisting of dragons, vampires, native american shamans, high level psychics and mages would have no problems.

You would assume incorrectly. The stronger the magical scent, the more magical equipment, power or nature of the party, the less chance they have of getting in. good old fashion special forces are MUCh more likely to get in than anything that will trip the Dog Boy senses.

And it is snuck or sneaked, not snucked.

They are there to kidnap docters and film evidence, fido. As I said before, it is a matter of role-play. Hide PPE and invisibility will hide your scent from any dog-boys anytime.

does it hide your smell too? I figure, dragon would be one of the first things I would teach my walking gun toting mutt to sniff out. I would have to read hide PPE but I don't it is as effective as you think, is it going to hide the ISP sent, or the magical items and equipment? How long does it work? Does it work on creatures of Magic? Does it say specifically or do you just interpret it that way?

Man, this topic is on fire!

I think in all likelyhood the kink in security was sealed up right after that party managed to get out, barely I might add.

What actually makes you think it wasn't? The party knows one way in and it has been sealed off, gauranteed. Bradford woudl see to that in a hurry I woudl say. So now what? You have no floor plans of the faciliy and the one way in is sure to be set up to catch anyone and anything that tries to get in.

Now if you could get the Republicans involved you MAY have a chance at tgetting intel on the facility and a possible way in but there is no way they will work woth FoM or Vampires. Lazlo maybe, the nativesd maybe.

I could be wrong, but I believe Mask PPE is a lot like Mask ISP & Psionics. When using the power, you can't be casting any spells. Even if I am wrong, they will still detect any spells that are active. Also, Mask PPE only effects you, not your equipment, so no magic items. Good luck forming an effective team from various magic nations without a single magic item between them. Oh, and one where EVERYONE on the team also has the psionic ability of Mask PPE.

Elthbert wrote:does it hide your smell too? I figure, dragon would be one of the first things I would teach my walking gun toting mutt to sniff out. I would have to read hide PPE but I don't it is as effective as you think, is it going to hide the ISP sent, or the magical items and equipment? How long does it work? Does it work on creatures of Magic? Does it say specifically or do you just interpret it that way?

Invisibility (Superior)
A powerful incantation that makes the spell caster invisible to all
means of detection. Ordinary vision, infrared, ultraviolet and other optics,
heat, motion detectors, and even an animal's sense of smell, can
NOT locate the invisible person.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Elthbert wrote:does it hide your smell too? I figure, dragon would be one of the first things I would teach my walking gun toting mutt to sniff out. I would have to read hide PPE but I don't it is as effective as you think, is it going to hide the ISP sent, or the magical items and equipment? How long does it work? Does it work on creatures of Magic? Does it say specifically or do you just interpret it that way?

Invisibility (Superior)
A powerful incantation that makes the spell caster invisible to all
means of detection. Ordinary vision, infrared, ultraviolet and other optics,
heat, motion detectors, and even an animal's sense of smell, can
NOT locate the invisible person.

Oh so we are using invisability (superior). not Simple. Okay so this powerful incantation is not going to be detected by the dog boys in the Complex? and our team has PPE to spare casting it on all the members, and none of the Psychics her have sixth sense or see the invisible ( that is a psionic ability right?).

What about my other questions?

jaymz wrote:I think in all likelyhood the kink in security was sealed up right after that party managed to get out, barely I might add.

What actually makes you think it wasn't? The party knows one way in and it has been sealed off, gauranteed. Bradford woudl see to that in a hurry I woudl say. So now what? You have no floor plans of the faciliy and the one way in is sure to be set up to catch anyone and anything that tries to get in.

Now if you could get the Republicans involved you MAY have a chance at tgetting intel on the facility and a possible way in but there is no way they will work woth FoM or Vampires. Lazlo maybe, the nativesd maybe.

Mystic Portal.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

jaymz wrote:I think in all likelyhood the kink in security was sealed up right after that party managed to get out, barely I might add.

What actually makes you think it wasn't? The party knows one way in and it has been sealed off, gauranteed. Bradford woudl see to that in a hurry I woudl say. So now what? You have no floor plans of the faciliy and the one way in is sure to be set up to catch anyone and anything that tries to get in.

Now if you could get the Republicans involved you MAY have a chance at tgetting intel on the facility and a possible way in but there is no way they will work woth FoM or Vampires. Lazlo maybe, the nativesd maybe.

Mystic Portal.

Um dont you have to kno wwhere you are going wit Mystic portal? And if you do do you honestly thingk they woudl not have teh location the original party accessed the complex secured somehow?

Elthbert wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Elthbert wrote:does it hide your smell too? I figure, dragon would be one of the first things I would teach my walking gun toting mutt to sniff out. I would have to read hide PPE but I don't it is as effective as you think, is it going to hide the ISP sent, or the magical items and equipment? How long does it work? Does it work on creatures of Magic? Does it say specifically or do you just interpret it that way?

Invisibility (Superior)
A powerful incantation that makes the spell caster invisible to all
means of detection. Ordinary vision, infrared, ultraviolet and other optics,
heat, motion detectors, and even an animal's sense of smell, can
NOT locate the invisible person.

Oh so we are using invisability (superior). not Simple. Okay so this powerful incantation is not going to be detected by the dog boys in the Complex? and our team has PPE to spare casting it on all the members, and none of the Psychics her have sixth sense or see the invisible ( that is a psionic ability right?).

What about my other questions?

Hello? Haven't you heard of Scroll-Making at a Leyline? See the Invisible only works for invisibility : simple and not for invisibility : superior. All your questions have been answered.

You can remote-view before casting mystic portal can't you?

jaymz wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

jaymz wrote:I think in all likelyhood the kink in security was sealed up right after that party managed to get out, barely I might add.

What actually makes you think it wasn't? The party knows one way in and it has been sealed off, gauranteed. Bradford woudl see to that in a hurry I woudl say. So now what? You have no floor plans of the faciliy and the one way in is sure to be set up to catch anyone and anything that tries to get in.

Now if you could get the Republicans involved you MAY have a chance at tgetting intel on the facility and a possible way in but there is no way they will work woth FoM or Vampires. Lazlo maybe, the nativesd maybe.

Mystic Portal.

Um dont you have to kno wwhere you are going wit Mystic portal? And if you do do you honestly thingk they woudl not have teh location the original party accessed the complex secured somehow?

You ever heard of PsiGhosts? Use a Psi-Ghost to explore the terrain first. Map out the floor plans. Take photos of the rooms. Make sure the Psi-Ghosts has scrolls of invisibility on them. A 100 scrolls each.

Then once you have the floorplans mapped out and photos of every room taken, you can even teleport to that location.

Face it, the CS won't ever win against magic without writers' fiat.

crystaleye1950 wrote:You can remote-view before casting mystic portal can't you?

remote view what and who? you need to have a picture of the target for remote viewing to work, you can only use it once per day on a given target, and you have no way of knowing where the target is until you've used it. second sight doesn't have the once per 24 hours restriction, but does require that you actually have met the target, which is just as hard a restriction to beat, if not harder.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

jaymz wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

jaymz wrote:I think in all likelyhood the kink in security was sealed up right after that party managed to get out, barely I might add.

What actually makes you think it wasn't? The party knows one way in and it has been sealed off, gauranteed. Bradford woudl see to that in a hurry I woudl say. So now what? You have no floor plans of the faciliy and the one way in is sure to be set up to catch anyone and anything that tries to get in.

Now if you could get the Republicans involved you MAY have a chance at tgetting intel on the facility and a possible way in but there is no way they will work woth FoM or Vampires. Lazlo maybe, the nativesd maybe.

Mystic Portal.

Um dont you have to kno wwhere you are going wit Mystic portal? And if you do do you honestly thingk they woudl not have teh location the original party accessed the complex secured somehow?

You ever heard of PsiGhosts? Use a Psi-Ghost to explore the terrain first. Map out the floor plans. Take photos of the rooms. Make sure the Psi-Ghosts has scrolls of invisibility on them. A 100 scrolls each.

Then once you have the floorplans mapped out and photos of every room taken, you can even teleport to that location.

Face it, the CS won't ever win against magic without writers' fiat.

First of all I do NOT appreciate the condescending tone you seem to have taken in general

Second I have heard of Psi-Ghosts....so you ar telling me they can get enough Psi-ghosts togther with 100 invisibility scrolls each to just float and meander thorught the lonstare facility at a whim? So all the safegaurds they have inplace to eal with magic incursion and or psionic incursion just won't work because you say they won't? please be serious.

Not to mentiont eh factiosn that supposedly woudl work to gether WON'T. FoM wants nothign to do with Lazlo, Dweomer and Psyscape would probably bow out as well, The natives MIGHT but wouldnt; likely side with FoM and none of them woudl work with Vampires.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Elthbert wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Elthbert wrote:does it hide your smell too? I figure, dragon would be one of the first things I would teach my walking gun toting mutt to sniff out. I would have to read hide PPE but I don't it is as effective as you think, is it going to hide the ISP sent, or the magical items and equipment? How long does it work? Does it work on creatures of Magic? Does it say specifically or do you just interpret it that way?

Invisibility (Superior)
A powerful incantation that makes the spell caster invisible to all
means of detection. Ordinary vision, infrared, ultraviolet and other optics,
heat, motion detectors, and even an animal's sense of smell, can
NOT locate the invisible person.

Oh so we are using invisability (superior). not Simple. Okay so this powerful incantation is not going to be detected by the dog boys in the Complex? and our team has PPE to spare casting it on all the members, and none of the Psychics her have sixth sense or see the invisible ( that is a psionic ability right?).

What about my other questions?

Hello? Haven't you heard of Scroll-Making at a Leyline? See the Invisible only works for invisibility : simple and not for invisibility : superior. All your questions have been answered.

You can remote-view before casting mystic portal can't you?

I just checked RUE ther is NOTHING thats states see the invisible does not work on Invisibilty Superior, only that it prevents normal senses and sesnors from detecting the invisible person. So unless you are talking about a seperate superior invisibiity spell....See the Invisible WILL work.

Unless the psychics, of which there are hundreds, and dog boys , of which are thousands, would never routinely use see the invisible while patrolling, then maybe you are right and these psi ghosts can mystic portal in and never be seen at all.

The only problem is in all of this is that you DONT KNOW who to go after in the first place because you DONT KNOW who knows about this project.


Even IF the psi-ghosts get in and do the recon, you still cant take anyone the same way with the next group the PGs got thru. One any hostile action is take the invisibility drops and all sensors will detect them automatically or do you think teh peopel being grabbed will jsut do nothing to defend themsleves once grabbed too?

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Gamer wrote:The comic in the Rifters was put in the book "Machinations of Doom" and there were stats given for all the key personalities and all the creatures.

But to be honest the "whole key to strike down the CS" is nothing but meta gaming to me, who even knows the creatures exist beyond Bradford.
The Chimp only knew of the Alpha project, not the omega project.
Bradford seems to be the type who keeps his "pet" scientists working on one project or only part of a project like some military contractors do today with sensitive projects.
The heroes down loaded various genetic data nobody knows if the info they have contains details on the omega beast or even the Aishwarra beast that the "heroes" fought and saw destroyed and the two different beasts don't even look the same, so its a leap that they'd connect the two if they ever saw the much smaller, less powerful Omega.
Who is going to know that the Omegas where a product of Lonestar facility?
There are already a lot of creatures out there that people swear is a creation of Lonestar but really aren't.
It will be seen as yet another rumor until some serious evidence is given, and that evidence may not even exist.
Bradford let them escape, he is letting them take the data file to where ever it ends up, they are being used and most likely set up by Bradford.
It's not like the Omegas are just going to trundle out the front door of Lonestar, Bradford will most likely set them down in specific spots.
The Omegas are hardly a challege for any Dragon beyond hatchlings and with the increased Splugorth raider and slaver activity in North America the released Omegas will actually help in dealing with them.

It is hardly anything that will spell the doom for the CS, barely a worth mentioning let alone the key to strike them down.

Your political naivety is indeed laughable. It is true that the the Omegas are hardly any challenge but if you have psychics probing the witnesses' memories for what really happened, then the higher-ups in any magic-using nation are gonna be real pissed off with the CS.

Especially the Native Americans, camp Apache, who is just next to Lone Star.

Even if you have separate departments working on the same project, are you going to claim that there is not even one single docter besides Bradford who knows about the ultimate aim of the Omega projects?

We are talking about kidnapping the head researchers of the Omega projects. Researchers like Docter Alexander and Docter Heston, the chimp, who knows about these projects.

So are you telling me there are only 2 docters in the whole Lone Star complex who knows about the truth and there is no one else who knows the truth? Please, I know you wanna protect your beloved CS and any fool would see that your answer is too naive and childish.

It's childish remarks that make people not like these forums.

I cherish no faction, unlike your rabid ill thought out plots to destroy the CS.
Probing witnesses memories aren't going to say hey the CS made these things, its just going to say, yep those things destroyed this village.
whoopty fricken doo.
It boggles the mind how anyone would even make that connection, your need to find some plot that destroys the CS has gotten to the point it is now overriding simple common sense.
You are the one who has no concept on how things work in the real world.
You are the one who insist that somehow the mage societies just "know" that the beasts are made in Lonestar, you provide nothing that stat's just how these societies are going to find out , they just know.

I say that Bradford may separate his "pet" scientists in his projects it suddenly means to you there are only a couple scientists in all of Lonestar.

Bradford can have his scientists working on a lot of projects, but Bradford seems to like his secrets, his control over people and loves to play god.
His "pet" scientists are disposable and as such there's no reason to place them in a lot of various projects if these mutant animals are likely to get torn apart and eaten or used like the mutant monkey in the comics, that's why he would most likely have them working on parts of the project were if the mutant doctor is lost then over all work on the project isn't delayed.

If you spent more time on maturely thinking things through instead of coming up with childish comments when people find your plots are loaded more holes than a strainer you would see this.

reading everyone else posts and your replys It's become obvious you just like to and need to argue and take instant offense and become condescending when people give rational explanations as to why your ill thought out plots won't work, there is no real mature thinking done in your replys, so just going to place you on ignore and be done with you as there are more mature, open mined people who think things through on the boards I enjoy reading and communicating with.

jaymz wrote:I just checked RUE ther is NOTHING thats states see the invisible does not work on Invisibilty Superior, only that it prevents normal senses and sesnors from detecting the invisible person. So unless you are talking about a seperate superior invisibiity spell....See the Invisible WILL work.

Unless the psychics, of which there are hundreds, and dog boys , of which are thousands, would never routinely use see the invisible while patrolling, then maybe you are right and these psi ghosts can mystic portal in and never be seen at all.

Please observe the differences between Invisibility Simple and Invisibility Superior and get back to me.

Invisibility Simple - Only being who can naturally, psionically or magically "see the invisible" are able to see invisibility simple.

Invisibility Superior - The target is invisible to all means of detection. Period.

The Psi-Ghosts will be there to do the initial recon work so that the main kidnapping/spying party consisting of various factions will have an easier job.

jaymz wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

jaymz wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

jaymz wrote:I think in all likelyhood the kink in security was sealed up right after that party managed to get out, barely I might add.

What actually makes you think it wasn't? The party knows one way in and it has been sealed off, gauranteed. Bradford woudl see to that in a hurry I woudl say. So now what? You have no floor plans of the faciliy and the one way in is sure to be set up to catch anyone and anything that tries to get in.

Now if you could get the Republicans involved you MAY have a chance at tgetting intel on the facility and a possible way in but there is no way they will work woth FoM or Vampires. Lazlo maybe, the nativesd maybe.

Mystic Portal.

Um dont you have to kno wwhere you are going wit Mystic portal? And if you do do you honestly thingk they woudl not have teh location the original party accessed the complex secured somehow?

You ever heard of PsiGhosts? Use a Psi-Ghost to explore the terrain first. Map out the floor plans. Take photos of the rooms. Make sure the Psi-Ghosts has scrolls of invisibility on them. A 100 scrolls each.

Then once you have the floorplans mapped out and photos of every room taken, you can even teleport to that location.

Face it, the CS won't ever win against magic without writers' fiat.

First of all I do NOT appreciate the condescending tone you seem to have taken in general

Second I have heard of Psi-Ghosts....so you ar telling me they can get enough Psi-ghosts togther with 100 invisibility scrolls each to just float and meander thorught the lonstare facility at a whim? So all the safegaurds they have inplace to eal with magic incursion and or psionic incursion just won't work because you say they won't? please be serious.

Not to mentiont eh factiosn that supposedly woudl work to gether WON'T. FoM wants nothign to do with Lazlo, Dweomer and Psyscape would probably bow out as well, The natives MIGHT but wouldnt; likely side with FoM and none of them woudl work with Vampires.

What safeguards does Lone Star have to prevent magical incursions? What is there to prevent Psi-Ghosts with 100 Invisibility Superior Scrolls each to float and meander throughout the lonestar facility?

If you can come up with a valid magical / anti psi-ghost spying defense, I would love to eat crow's pie. But you have nothing.

The only point which I can agree with you is that it is gonna be hard to get the various factions together. That is a given. Spying on Lone Star is child's play compared to getting an alliance between the various factions.