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If you were given the task of designing a new core Palladium Fantasy rule book for 2nd edition(Kind of like Rifts Ultimate edition) what would you put in it? How would you make it more appealing to people new to gaming? Would you keep it softcover? Would you keep the art or would you update the art as well? How would you lay it out? Do you think you could have it look cool enough to pull people into it and away from other fantasy games like D and D and Pathfinder?

I say update the Art,it was made in 1983,things have improve since then.
Update the OCC,give each abilities only to them.
Maybe add more islands to the Palladium world.
More Details like humans ethinc groups and so on.

I would make different hand to hands for each man at arms OCC.

I agree with a lot of what you guys have said. Palladium is always whining about dismal sales but it doesn't seem like they do a lot to "pretty up" their product. When I go into my gaming store the books that grab my eye are not the Palladium fantasy books. When you put the latest PF book on the shelf next to a WOTC book or Pathfinder PF looks really bland. I'm fairly sure that affects the sales of PF.

It's such a good game that I hate seeing it relegated to back shelves and relative obscurity.

I do whole new art work for PFRPG, alot of its nice, but it's old fashioned and there is better artists out there now.

I would keep the basic HTH styles,but ad class and race based add-on's, like physical skills are now.

I would make the would bigger. Keep it the same as it is now for the most part,just increase the overall size of the world.

More magic, more ley lines, and just a more magical world over all.

Work out a economy that makes sense.

Make a combat system that takes the whole game world in to account. I have always got the feel the they did hth first and them added magic & psionics, then ranged and mounted. Make a tight system that works together well.

I'd overhaul the entire rule set, but I've been doing that home brew style for half a decade as is so nothing new there (and chances are I'd overhaul my overhaul after printing ). Updated art would be good, but I don't know I'd go into the whole style that seems to be previlent in PF's counter parts, Palladium Books has an 'art style' that makes it very distinct among other games and is clear across all its books. I would however have a hard color version (a soft cover B&W for cost minded players), skill and spell collection from the various books (i.e All the new wizard and warlock spells), same with Psionics. I wouldn't detail the world setting a great deal with it, the brushing over is fine since PF speificly releases setting books dedicated to new areas (I would also reprint Old Ones under the title Timiro Kingdoms, since that's 90% of the book).

character creation would be at the front of the book, followed by skills, followed by combat, followed by magic.

character creation chapter would contain a complete walkthrough for character creation.

A character sheet would be in the back for photocopiers.

gaby wrote:I say update the Art,it was made in 1983,things have improve since then.
Update the OCC,give each abilities only to them.
Maybe add more islands to the Palladium world.
More Details like humans ethinc groups and so on.

i agree with everything except the art bit. I like most of the art in PF. some of it can go, but most of it is good, if not great.

Someone else also said to jazz up the cover, and I completely agree with that as well. Pathfinder sold out a 500 page, full color book for $50 (2000 book run? mayber more?). So anyone saying that Palladium Fantasy won't sell is full of crap. It just needs better organization, better classes (make them distinct. for most of them there is virtually no difference except in the bonuses for OCC related skills), revised skills, and more HtH combat options.

plus more islands, languages, and ethnic groups. Also, I would like to see more info about the Underworld. there is virtually nothing about underground dwarven, kobold, and trog kingdoms.

You want to know how you update PFRPG you get Yin Sloth Jungle 2nd edition, Land of the
South Winds, the Two Old Kingdoms Books, Land of the Damned Book 3, and Wolfen Wars
out. The main book doesn't need updating nor a Rifts Ultimate treatment. All it needs is
some time and loving from Kevin and the other freelancers. Mysteries of Magic is a step in
the right direction. There is no way Kevin is going back to all the different hand to hands
again. Basic, Expert, and Martial Arts (and Commando though it would never appear in
Fantasy) are the set standard Hand to Hand. If you want to do any of that stay with first
edition rules which are still a great way to play Fantasy.

First edition rules except PPE for spells.

I was SO looking forward to the 2nd edition and when it came out and I bought it, It was horrible.

I'd start with a complete overhaul of the rules and game mechanics. For me the thing that hurts PB more than anything are the core mechanics of the system especially in combat. I would create more flexibility in how the classes work. Perhaps take a BESM approach making things simpler, faster and more fluid. Definitely have a new copy editor or proof reader, and a more consistent art director. One of the things that stand out for me in the top tier PRG books is consistent artistic style and layout within the books. Some reorganization of data and the character creation process is probably needed as well.

What I wouldn't change is the setting. That is the one thing I truely love about the PFRPG. I wouldn't copy and paste the descriptions, but I would keep their Key points and characteristics while describing them in new ways, perhaps pulling information from various source books to paint a more vivid picture in the core book, while subtly encouraging that the players obtain the source books for that section of the world (all of which would be rewritten and redesigned to conform to the new style of the core book).

One of the things that worked for PB in the 80's and 90's was their affordable and simple layout. However RPG publishing has come a long way since the standard 2 colums per page with art interspaced days. High quality color paper and hard cover books are the standard, and it wouldn't hurt to put a new well developed product in that format.

I wouldn't. The things I might change aren't worthy of an overhaul. More like a bit of erratta.

Erratta I would quietly add to new printings.

ZorValachan wrote:First edition rules except PPE for spells.

I was SO looking forward to the 2nd edition and when it came out and I bought it, It was horrible.

Most of the old timers on these boards play PF this way, commonly refered to as Edition 1.5 I also got the 2nd edition, and got rid of it just as quick.

Reagren Wright wrote:You want to know how you update PFRPG you get Yin Sloth Jungle 2nd edition, Land of the
South Winds, the Two Old Kingdoms Books, Land of the Damned Book 3, and Wolfen Wars
out. The main book doesn't need updating nor a Rifts Ultimate treatment. All it needs is
some time and loving from Kevin and the other freelancers. Mysteries of Magic is a step in
the right direction. There is no way Kevin is going back to all the different hand to hands
again. Basic, Expert, and Martial Arts (and Commando though it would never appear in
Fantasy) are the set standard Hand to Hand. If you want to do any of that stay with first
edition rules which are still a great way to play Fantasy.

I'm with you on that point. New books are always a good way to stir up and keep interest in a game. It would be great if maybe we could get 1 MOM and one world book a year. That's not too much to ask...is it?

I'd just take one book a year for PF to be blunt Mysteries or otherwise.

Well I like to see each Man of arms O.C.C get a Special skills,that is over the normal skills,it will make each unque.

Still have not wokr that one yet,Any ideas?

sword-dancer wrote:

gaby wrote:Well I like to see each Man of arms O.C.C get a Special skills,that is over the normal skills,it will make each unque.

and how woud you not break the believabilty that the knight could learn Way of the lance the Heavy Cav soldier can not?

To my knowlage, WP Lance isn't a Knight Exclusive, simply knights do it better then soldiers (i.e their life training has been all about it since squirehood). Then again, I've long since gutted much of the 'fluff' form classes, and left it to players to connect set rules to their abilities (i.e weather from inborn talent, training, super powers, etc), simplifys and expands what you can do in a mechanical aspect and a RP style aspect.

I would put it that only a Palladin,s the Way of lance can cause the maximum of damage any other occ using it will cause lower damage and is a normal skill.

What I am saying is Any ideas for Special skills of Men of Arms,s O.C.C?

Yes Way of the Lance is going to be simply better then a soldier quickly trained in to use Lances via WP lance, but adding special skills will cause more of this confliction. That all said, I love class specalization, my home brew has dozens of abilities exlusive to each class (and within each class, as players much choose which abilities to get, and what to pass over as they level). A warrior specalization for example is called Devisate, a heavy hit, that's innaccurate, and can't be done a turn the player moved (Dodgeing opponnets almost always avoid it), think of it as a power attack crammed into a single action. Mystics can cast much faster then wizards (no need to incantate and all), and specalize in types of magic (i.e attack spells, debuff spells, etc), while wizards can get a bonus to up their spells so long as they never cast a similar spell type back to back (i.e rotates through their spell types). Just a few examples of things I've put in to add more complexity and depth to my local game play, and I'd love to see Palladium develop ideas along these lines to make each class a real class, not just a general skill set with a few minor abilities that to me, rarely affect real game play.

The Dark Elf wrote:I would make different hand to hands for each man at arms OCC.

Yes that's good, like 1st edition. And also make shield machanics better, and nerf or restrict paired weapons a little.

The core book is pretty solid but my group really hated the overpowering boosting of Dragons & Gods received. We had played the original game for over a decade and true it was time to boost the creatures but to increase their S.D.C. & hit points 10 times was way too much to handle, while not giving demons, deevils, gargoyles not enough of a boost. Giving a dragons & elementals something like a thousand s.d.c. & 500 hit points sure would have kept us playing the game but instead we moved more to Rifts and Nightbane, battle with creatures with thousands points feels like battling Tarrasque but way less special when most of them can just teleport away. Our little group use to slay the gods of Palladium Fantasy, one of our old characters beat Satan in a one on battle and won his wife, then after the change we were way out classed to even bother the gods. How the mighty had fallen. I still love the game for all the old memories and the detail in the character creation. I wish men-at-arms type classes came with more special perks & abilities and more of a classic cleric, as well as a mystical ranger type class with bonded animal or monster companion. Maybe what I'm asking for is more of a D&D touch but as every fantasy rpg & video game has theses type character I'm sure palladium could still make them unique. More creature with unique abilities that bring the character attributes into play like a stink, vertigo, lust, or paralysing wail where you save by rolling under your M.E. like summoners have battle of wills with demons with M.A. & M.E. just to shake things up and make beings with psionics vulnerable to other effects. The psychic classes should also get psychic strength bonuses like mages get spell strength bonuses even if it far & in between. Sixth sense should cost two power selections as nearly everyone picks it and some skills should come with special perks like having prowl & climbing should grant an automatic critical attack from above on a successful surprise attack. Higher start percent on skills 66% should be the minimal starting for most skills, if you can do something 2 out of three times its back to school for you, no restaurant going to want a cook who burns half the food or a lifeguard who drowns half the time. I'd love to see a Golemancer class with lots of different upgrade tables.

For me there not a lot i would change , maby add some more wepons make the occ a lii more unique . But from the sounds of most posts you want PF to be D&D , i have othere coments but its is better to keep ones mouth shut.