Forums of the Megaverse®

In the PFRPG main book, you can get a back-flip by picking the physical skill Gymnastics. There is no apparent benefit for the maneuver. In Adventures on the High Seas, you get a back-flip also w/ the Tumbling skill, but that gives you +4 to dodge Is this the same maneuver? My take on it is that it is the same maneuver and you would get the same bonus from the Back-Flip from Gymnastics, they just didn't think of this until they re-wrote book three.

My other question is on the back-flip (that has a dodge bonus), you have to roll a percentile. If you succeed you can attempt to dodge at +4. What happens if you fail? Do you automatically fail the dodge, or is it a regular dodge w/o the extra +4?

Even stranger, what if you succeed at the back-flip, but fail the dodge? you obviously take the damage, but do you still get the other benefit of landing far enough away that your opponent loses an attack?

My take on these items is as follows:

The backflip is the same from both places, and is a form of dodge that removes you from combat range.

The backflip with the extra bonus simply indicates an additional bonus to dodge when using the backflip. It's a more highly trained one, hence the bonus.

The percentage given is your chance of landing successfully. Failed roll means you don't stick the landing.

Regardless of whether or not you successfully land the backflip, the dodge roll determines whether or not the enemy hit you. You might avoid the attack and still land badly, or get hit on your way to a perfect landing.

After a backflip, you're out of combat range. The enemy has to move to hit you, and you'd have to move to hit them. This gives a chance to run away, change weapons, or do some other action before the enemy reaches you. If you failed the backflip, you're still out of range, but you crash landed and have to waste your range advantage just getting back up. You're probably back to square one.

The backflip can also be used for practical purposes - backflipping to show off, jump over something or somebody small behind you, or avoiding a leg sweep.

donJulio wrote:In the PFRPG main book, you can get a back-flip by picking the physical skill Gymnastics. There is no apparent benefit for the maneuver. In Adventures on the High Seas, you get a back-flip also w/ the Tumbling skill, but that gives you +4 to dodge Is this the same maneuver? My take on it is that it is the same maneuver and you would get the same bonus from the Back-Flip from Gymnastics, they just didn't think of this until they re-wrote book three.

My other question is on the back-flip (that has a dodge bonus), you have to roll a percentile. If you succeed you can attempt to dodge at +4. What happens if you fail? Do you automatically fail the dodge, or is it a regular dodge w/o the extra +4?

Even stranger, what if you succeed at the back-flip, but fail the dodge? you obviously take the damage, but do you still get the other benefit of landing far enough away that your opponent loses an attack?

Thank you! Having the percentile determine the landing makes a lot of sense to me now that you put it that way. In effect, it automatically costs you two actions, one for the back flip and one for you to reengage the enemy. But since it automatically costs the enemy an attack also, you're no worse off, it just whittles down the melees to fewer attacks. I would accept that in order to always have the +4 dodge bonus.