Forums of the Megaverse®

YOU AND YOUR CHAINSAW
“Keeping your chainsaw operating smoothly to slice and dice zombies is essential to survival in these trying times. I am here to teach and entertain you on the care of your chainsaw.”
(Written on chalkboard) Class: Guide to Servicing your Chainsaw. Your speaker, Keith Kingston
“Hello class, my name is Mr. Keith Kingston, you may call me Keith.” (Shuffle notes)
“Chainsaws provide many years of service for very little upkeep. Taking the time to service your chainsaw will help ensure that your equipment will not let you down. For safety reasons, make sure you only service your chainsaw when it is fully cooled, with the spark plug disconnected. If you are working with an electric chainsaw make sure it is unplugged first of all. You should also wear gloves and protection for your eyes.
For safe and effective operation having correct chain tension is necessary. As the chain wears, significant stretching will occur. After five to ten cuts a new chain may need to be readjusted. Separation from the guide bar or binding into bone….er…wood can occur if the chain is loose. A tight chain will cause premature chain and guide bar wear. A chain that is well adjusted will move easily and smoothly when pulled by a gloved hand. Binding or sagging by the chain should not occur. The chain tension should be checked and adjusted if needed before every use.
A manual or automatic chain oiling system is used in most chainsaws. Friction and heat builds between the chain and guide bar without oil. The oil also helps the individual links in the chain operate smoothly at high speeds. Check the oiling system prior to every use.
Tighten all of the screws and fasteners. This process should be done before every use. Before using your chainsaw each time you need to inspect the fuel system.
After every 10 hours of use you need to clean or replace the air filter. By replacing the air filter on a regular basis your chainsaw will be able to run cooler and use less fuel.
The sprocket tip should be lubricated after every 10 hours of use. You will know that lubrication is complete when a small amount of grease appears at the edge of the guide bar near the sprocket.
For every 10 hours of use the guide bar should be turned. Flip the guide bar over to promote an even wear pattern on the bottom and top of the bar. Inspect the spark plug after every 10 hours of use and clean or replace as necessary.
For every 10 hours of use the spark arrester screen should be inspected and cleaned and replaced when necessary. The spark arrester screen prevents sparks from leaving the exhaust port and hurting the operator or falling on flammable materials.
The fuel filter should be replaced after every 20 hours of use. Poor performance can result if the filter becomes clogged.
To ensure the maximum performance perform the following procedures as needed to prolong the life of your chainsaw. Take your chainsaw to an authorized dealer if the carburetor needs adjustment. (pause….laughter….) The chain blades should be sharpened periodically as they become dull.
If you cannot find an authorized dealer or you cut off his head, (more laughter) just ‘procure’ another one from his/her shop. (Laughter).
Oh, and always have a back up weapon; crowbars do not need refueling or reloading….
That concludes the class, bye and good hunting?? Luck??” He leaves. (Uneasy feeling in room and murmuring).”
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The best I can figure a chainsaw of various horsepower, size, etc. uses from .5oz to 3oz. of fuel per minute. So, if we use 2 oz. per minute as a rough average (or just because). It would be .5 oz per 15 second round. This is getting to be too much math. So, we change it to "charges" or "rounds in drum" like so.

We round up or down the fuel tank capacity to the nearest whole number. CS40 John Deere chain saw has a fuel cap of 13.5oz. Rounded to 14oz. 14oz divided by .5 oz per 15 second round = 28 “charges” or “rounds in drum” in the gas tank of the chainsaw. After one Melee Round, user has 27 charges left, after next round, 26 charges, etc. This is based on continuous running of the chainsaw during the entire round. I will have PC/NPC subtract 1 full charge if they start up or shut it off during a round. Bookkeeping would be a nightmare for me not to do so.

This is how I have PC/NPC to keep track of fuel consumption. What do you all think?

GMs feel free to use and abuse this idea.
Big Bob..............

Cons: Noise attraction. Gets dull, Can catch on bone, needs fuel, heavy, and one "oops" you're dead

Pros: IT'S SO FREAKING AWESOME COOL TO USE TO HACK AND SLASH.

uuhh...sorry about that, but that is the only pro I can think of. Does it outweigh the Cons?

I don't think the Pro outweighs the Con, but you are right.

I think chains saws are SWEET from a cinematic prospective, but, like firearms, they really are too noisy; as well they are too unwieldy for use. I personally prefer the Bat'leth (or just a simple Machete, Paired Kukri Knives, or Sickles), they are quiet and agile weapons; spears and pole arms work really well too.

Stupidly noisy, stupidly dangerous, and stupidly unwieldy. They're also dependant on a finite fuel supply, and can't be refueled quickly if empty, due to engine heat. On top of that, they're very heavy, and can't be used for secondary purposes without attracting hundreds of Zacks. To finish, while they might be great if all you had to do was hit the zombie, you have to actually destroy the brain to kill a DR zombie. As powerful as a chainsaw is, precision striking through the skull and in to the brain is just not something they're made for or would be good at.

Good stuff, thanks for the comments.

For close in emergency zombie trashing it is great. For its primary use of cutting trees, limbs and wood it works fine. An axe makes plenty of noise choping wood. Not quite as much as a chain saw, but quite a bit. A chain saw works okay as an emergency exit maker in a normal house (it'll cut through a 2x4 wall fairly quickly if it doesn't bind), it will most certainly remove limbs and heads from zombies, etc. Much faster and likely more effective then swining an axe or machete against a zombie.

Yes it has the possiblity of binding, but frankly that isn't all that likely to happen with flesh and blood.

Yes also 95% of the time is a majorly stupid weapon to use because of all the noise, but if you need something to deal out massive zombie death when say a dozen zeds jump you, a chain saw really is the thing.

A smallish 18 inch chain saw doesn't weigh to much, I'd put a guess down in the 15lb range. Also for the primary purpose of cutting wood and limbs, and electric chain saw is probably quiter then hacking something down with an axe. Of course you need to find 110/120v AC to operate it.
-Matt

They are great!...

If you are in a globe of silence!

I think in the DR world EVERYTHING is a pro (as well as a con). For instance, a knife is silent yes, but how many people would be such stone cold killers that they would not utter a single curse out of fear or anger when killing a Zed, especially if taken by surprise. So knife is silent, the act of killing with said knife, maybe not so silent.
Back to the matter at hand. CHAINSAWS!!!

Used in the right manner, VERY effective. Say if you are in a house, you end up in a room with no other exit, you are surrounded, they already know you are there, what's a bit more noise cutting through the drywall into the next room ?
Vehicle combat is where I think they would excel the most. Weld a bracket into the inside of a cargo van (this way the saw is mounted and can't be pulled out of your hands and even if the chain and guide bar snap off, there is no opening for zombies to reach through since the base of the saw is still bracketed into the van). Only use it to keep them off the van in emergencies, like I said you are already are surrounded and the vehicle is noisy, so what's a little bit more noise if it means living instead of dying.

Leon Kennedy wrote:Anything that relies on a fuel source to run isn't practical in the zombie-pocalypse. I'd rather a .45 Auto-Mag for large groups, with a double-barrel Remington for backup. S-Marts top of the line!

Then again, you will run out of ammunition as easily as fuel. It was discussed at the start of this thread that the fuel would be divided into "charges" for fuel consumption purposes. So, you could say that "in game" even the ammunition problem is the same as the ease-of-use/capability-of-use issue.

However, it wouldn't be necessary to swing a chainsaw. Simply start it and thrust or weave it back and forth. It won't be as fast of a kill, but it will hold the zed back and it will eventually do enough damage to "kill" it. Considering the narrow hallway, you wouldn't be dealing with all of the horde at the same time, just 1-4 of them.

My final answer... a friend of mine has taken to using a grenade launcher at every possible opportunity... so why not... you want a chainsaw... get one, use the rules given in the OP, and have fun. It is, after all, your game.

Thanks for the good discussion and comments.

Yeah a 40mm grenade launcher and a couple of bandoliers would be fun, though your going to attract every zed for a couple of miles. That and a 40mm doesn't have much of a kill range on zombies, maybe only 2-3m if your lucky. A normal 40mm DP grenade has a 5m kill radius and a 15m casualty radius. Considering the nature of it, you can reduce that 5m kill radius quite a bit since you need to decapitate or destroy their brain, and that probably doesn't have a high likelihood of the fragmentation penetrating the skull except at very close range. Now a direct hit would send zombie parts flying through the sky, and its a good way to scatter a bunch of them (you know, by flinging them through the air), probably kill a couple in a big group too.

For the chain saw, a straight thrust is plenty workable to chew up a zed. You don't need that much room. I want to create a character with chainsaw in place of their left hand and a double barrel remington shotgun in a holster on their back. The characters name is Cruce Bampbell.
-Matt

azazel1024 wrote:Yeah a 40mm grenade launcher and a couple of bandoliers would be fun, though your going to attract every zed for a couple of miles. That and a 40mm doesn't have much of a kill range on zombies, maybe only 2-3m if your lucky. A normal 40mm DP grenade has a 5m kill radius and a 15m casualty radius. Considering the nature of it, you can reduce that 5m kill radius quite a bit since you need to decapitate or destroy their brain, and that probably doesn't have a high likelihood of the fragmentation penetrating the skull except at very close range. Now a direct hit would send zombie parts flying through the sky, and its a good way to scatter a bunch of them (you know, by flinging them through the air), probably kill a couple in a big group too.

For the chain saw, a straight thrust is plenty workable to chew up a zed. You don't need that much room. I want to create a character with chainsaw in place of their left hand and a double barrel remington shotgun in a holster on their back. The characters name is Cruce Bampbell.
-Matt

The grenade launcher isn't really all that effective in most situations and just serves to cause a lot of collateral damage and bring more zeds to the mix, but he likes it (the rest of the party wants to shove it up his @$$). He's been using up a crate of 40mm HEI rounds they found in an abandoned Army IFV (he only has 25 left - thank God). These can be extremely effective when the horde are crammed together in a bottleneck of some kind. He's pretty good about hitting zed at his weakest. Fun to run though (he had a misfire last weekend and almost blew himself up ).

Any chainsaw users in Dead Reign RPG?

Nope, but a game I ran awhile ago had one PC dual wielding fire axes.

I designed a WP Chainsaw, but I don't have it with me... I will try and remember to dig it out when I can. I think it's pretty nifty.

I found it!

WP Chainsaw: Modern WP

+1 to strike at levels 1, 5, 7, 11, 15
+1 to parry at levels 2, 6, 10, 14

On a D20 with a roll of 1-3 your chainsaw gets stuck or runs out of gas or something.
4-14 Normal Damage
15-17 Double Damage
18-20 Instant Kill

Chainsaws do 4D6 +P.S. bonus

P.P. bonus work like normal.

With a successful Parry the limb takes damage.

Feel free to tear my WP apart, as I am always looking for improvement.

The problem I have with a W.P. Chainsaw is the same problem I have with the W.P. Fire Axe: Having a Weapon Proficiency with a tool means that the character has practiced using that TOOL as a weapon and not as a tool. It means that the character probably could not use the, let's say, fire axe to fight a fire, but he could use it to defend the fire station from attack. Looking at the chain saw, you know how to use it to lop off appendages, but not to fell a tree.

So, quick quiz: How many of us have practiced using tools as effective weapons? I know that I have, but that skill is not battle tested, nor would I consider it a Weapon Proficiency. (And if you think yours is a W.P., you might want to re-examine the level of proficiency you truly have.) Therefore, a W.P. (Any Tool) would be extremely rare in a starting character. I might allow it somewhere around 5th or even 10th level (depending on the game).

Beatmeclever wrote:The problem I have with a W.P. Chainsaw is the same problem I have with the W.P. Fire Axe: Having a Weapon Proficiency with a tool means that the character has practiced using that TOOL as a weapon and not as a tool. It means that the character probably could not use the, let's say, fire axe to fight a fire, but he could use it to defend the fire station from attack. Looking at the chain saw, you know how to use it to lop off appendages, but not to fell a tree.

So, quick quiz: How many of us have practiced using tools as effective weapons? I know that I have, but that skill is not battle tested, nor would I consider it a Weapon Proficiency. (And if you think yours is a W.P., you might want to re-examine the level of proficiency you truly have.) Therefore, a W.P. (Any Tool) would be extremely rare in a starting character. I might allow it somewhere around 5th or even 10th level (depending on the game).

Not sure that would follow, no reason someone couldn't learn to use a tool offensively yet still use it as a tool. Many martial art weapons (and weapons in general) were derived from farming tools and other implements yet I can't imagine that meaning that they couldn't know how to use it as a tool just because they learned to use it as a weapon. Yes they may have only learned weapon uses but that's not a given, one could just as easily have used it as a tool (the aforementioned Fireman for example) then learned to use it as a weapon because it was so convenient.

Beatmeclever wrote:Not sure that would follow, no reason someone couldn't learn to use a tool offensively yet still use it as a tool. Many martial art weapons (and weapons in general) were derived from farming tools and other implements yet I can't imagine that meaning that they couldn't know how to use it as a tool just because they learned to use it as a weapon. Yes they may have only learned weapon uses but that's not a given, one could just as easily have used it as a tool (the aforementioned Fireman for example) then learned to use it as a weapon because it was so convenient.

I totally agree, mostly because I took the time to figure out the stinkin' W.P.

Gulzhad wrote:

Beatmeclever wrote:Not sure that would follow, no reason someone couldn't learn to use a tool offensively yet still use it as a tool. Many martial art weapons (and weapons in general) were derived from farming tools and other implements yet I can't imagine that meaning that they couldn't know how to use it as a tool just because they learned to use it as a weapon. Yes they may have only learned weapon uses but that's not a given, one could just as easily have used it as a tool (the aforementioned Fireman for example) then learned to use it as a weapon because it was so convenient.

I totally agree, mostly because I took the time to figure out the stinkin' W.P.

Misquoted that, that was my reply to Beatmeclever and not his reply.

I'd imagine that a fireman's axe would be covered under the W.P. Axe skill, it's not particularly specialized but more a generic range of coverage. Unlike with a chainsaw which just doesn't have a range of related weapons and requires a special W.P.

Oops, I guess I need to work on quoting people...

Gulzhad wrote:Oops, I guess I need to work on quoting people...

I have to remind myself to use the 'Preview' button all the time to be sure I've got the quoting laid out correctly.

I often times forget about that one

I have some problems with chainsaws as weapons. When hitting something too hard to cut through they will often jump and not uncommon to come right back at the user. I think getting cut by a chainsaw coated in Zombie blood would not be a good idea. The chain comes off the bar easily and not that hard to break. They need fuel to run and that would be a problem when supplies run low. The big problem is they are very loud and would be like screaming "dinner come and get it" for any nearby Zombies.

Shawn Merrow wrote:I have some problems with chainsaws as weapons. When hitting something too hard to cut through they will often jump and not uncommon to come right back at the user. I think getting cut by a chainsaw coated in Zombie blood would not be a good idea. The chain comes off the bar easily and not that hard to break. They need fuel to run and that would be a problem when supplies run low. The big problem is they are very loud and would be like screaming "dinner come and get it" for any nearby Zombies.

'Rule of Cool' vs 'Rule of common sense', which wins out in a particular GM's mind. Definitely not a very good choice of weapons but some love that cool look over all.

Gulzhad wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Beatmeclever wrote:The problem I have with a W.P. Chainsaw is the same problem I have with the W.P. Fire Axe: Having a Weapon Proficiency with a tool means that the character has practiced using that TOOL as a weapon and not as a tool. It means that the character probably could not use the, let's say, fire axe to fight a fire, but he could use it to defend the fire station from attack. Looking at the chain saw, you know how to use it to lop off appendages, but not to fell a tree.

So, quick quiz: How many of us have practiced using tools as effective weapons? I know that I have, but that skill is not battle tested, nor would I consider it a Weapon Proficiency. (And if you think yours is a W.P., you might want to re-examine the level of proficiency you truly have.) Therefore, a W.P. (Any Tool) would be extremely rare in a starting character. I might allow it somewhere around 5th or even 10th level (depending on the game).

Not sure that would follow, no reason someone couldn't learn to use a tool offensively yet still use it as a tool. Many martial art weapons (and weapons in general) were derived from farming tools and other implements yet I can't imagine that meaning that they couldn't know how to use it as a tool just because they learned to use it as a weapon. Yes they may have only learned weapon uses but that's not a given, one could just as easily have used it as a tool (the aforementioned Fireman for example) then learned to use it as a weapon because it was so convenient.

I totally agree, mostly because I took the time to figure out the stinkin' W.P.

All you have proven is that you had to "figure out the stinkin' W.P.," which goes back to the second part of my post. The part that said:

Beatmeclever wrote:a W.P. (Any Tool) would be extremely rare in a starting character. I might allow it somewhere around 5th or even 10th level (depending on the game).

I might have been overzealous in calling for higher levels, but I would call for the character to have shown the actions (to have taken the time) required to have learned how to use the tool as a weapon. Also, a W.P. Fire Axe is redundant as there is already a W.P. Axe.

The difference between being proficient with a weapon (or using a tool as a weapon) and simply using a weapon (or tool as a weapon) is the ability to use said weapon/tool EFFECTIVELY in combat. Playing at using to tool combatively and understanding the principles of conservation of momentum, angles of attack, range, and impact reaction in relation to the design of said weapon/tool are two completely different things.

Even where I would consider my ability to utilize a ballpoint pen in combat an offshoot of my training with a knife in combat, I would not consider it to be a W.P. in itself, because I have not ever had to use it nor have I ever practiced against an opponent (all of my work with the tool has been against a mook jong at this point). I can use nunchuks in combat, but I would not be able to use them to thresh rice. Again, knowing how to use a tool as a weapon does not mean you can use it as a tool and vice versa.

Trust me on this, because I personally LOVE improvised weapons; however, without solidly exploring and practicing the application of a tool as a weapon you CANNOT use it in that manner. Answer a few questions about your W.P. Tool:

Does the tool bounce off the target in some random direction after it hits and can you adjust to that without injury to yourself or losing the initiative in combat?
Does the tool will have some form of independent inertia that will affect an effective attack/defense?
Does the tool will have some component that will damage the user in the recovery phase of the maneuver?
Does the tool have the surface shape or mass required to make the attack you wish to make?
Does the tool require momentum to be created for an effective attack?
Is the tool an effective weapon for offensive use or would it be better used for defense?
Have you practiced using to tool against a living opponent? (Here even a simulation of the tool, in the same way as a bokken is a simulation of a sword, will work.)

As was stated here:

Shawn Merrow wrote:I have some problems with chainsaws as weapons. When hitting something too hard to cut through they will often jump and not uncommon to come right back at the user. I think getting cut by a chainsaw coated in Zombie blood would not be a good idea. The chain comes off the bar easily and not that hard to break. They need fuel to run and that would be a problem when supplies run low. The big problem is they are very loud and would be like screaming "dinner come and get it" for any nearby Zombies.

The chainsaw has several dangerous hang-ups if used as a weapon.

Although, I would allow a character to use a chainsaw, I would not allow a W.P. Chainsaw. However:

Nightmask wrote:'Rule of Cool' vs 'Rule of common sense', which wins out in a particular GM's mind. Definitely not a very good choice of weapons but some love that cool look over all.

I agree.

Would never use a chain saw unless forced to as others have stated it's too loud for the most part.
The people cutting all the pine beetle killed trees around my area you can hear them for miles, so I wouldn't want to use one for it's actual purpose much less as a weapon.
While it may be a nice brutal weapon against the living, it's going to suck against the dead.
Unless you are going for head shots constantly all your doing is sitting there ripping up a corpse that wants to eat you.
A zombie isn't going to care you are hitting it with a chain saw it's still going to be attacking you.

Gulzhad's wp would be ok for Rifts or other futuristic game but for a modern PA game it's too video gamish and B movie to me.
WP's just mean you are proficient with a weapon and that takes training and time/experience to get proficient and I don't see DR as the game to get proficient with such a weapon.

The chief reasons being where are you getting all the fuel to get proficient with it and are you really going to use such a lound cumbersome weapon that much?
Recovering from attacking something with a chain saw should eat up more time than other hand weapons especially missing with it as to me it's like swinging around a big gyroscope, a lethal gyroscope to be sure.
The rule of cool is on thing but a chainsaw in a zombie apocalypse should be the weapon of absolute last resort not your primary choice that's not long term survival thinking in my opinion.
If I were to allow such a W.P. in a modern PA setting you would start with penalties even with the chain saw proficiency and slowly work the penalties off as you get experience with it.

bigbobsr6000 wrote:Any chainsaw users in Dead Reign RPG?

Too noisy and clumsy!

It's cinematic, good for taking out tough zombies.... and just imagine bolting a few chainsaws to the sides/front of a vehicle around shoulder level.

bigbobsr6000 wrote:Any chainsaw users in Dead Reign RPG?

Well sure, till my char died... now I am just using a skateboard and a bunch of molotovs/dynamite that I found.

Chainsaws...too noisy, need gas and you need to get real close.


For a cool weapon combo I had a Sheppard of the Damned who had a dog catcher pole and his buddy had a sledge hammer. Never got to run the duo in game, but I can see how it would be quiet and effective versus lone or small groups of zombies.

Or remember the giant, spring-loaded, head chomping shears from Excorcist 3 or what about the pneumatic cattle killer from No Country for Old Men?

Also-I think a damn medieval halberd would be a an awesome zombie hewer as well.