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When running a Diabolist, I personally make it a point to have every stinking lore and language skill I can possibly muster. Pile on the science and technical and medical skills like there's no tommorrow, and take a single W.P., HtH Basic, and call it a day for combat. You can work your butt off on that one weapon skill so you can still whack things from time to time, but what you want to focus on is making combat easier.

How does that work?

Well, using your lore skills, perhaps you know that a given monster takes double damage from a certain material, and the others can switch to that. With your language skill, perhaps you can negotiate with those thugs, instead of fighting them. With your science skills, perhaps you can identify a useful plant, that with your medical skill allows the others to recover quickly from injury, so they can get back in the game faster. As a Diabolist, your job isn't necessarily to deal the most damage in combat, but to make it so the party doesn't need to fight in the first place. That's worth not being a rough and tumble fighter.

Now, looking at it objectively, the only real difference between a diabolist and a soldier in hand to hand combat is the soldier can wear heavy armor without penalty. A diabolist would have to spend more skill slots to be as well trained, but they could do it. Subjectively, however, if you're playing a diabolist, you shouldn't be worrying about being a physical fighter. Focus on your specialty, and why it is important, because unlike physical combat, nobody else can do what you do.

As Lionheart said if you have a WP and HTH your ok in combat and being an adventuring Diabolist, its acceptable to have those and be in character. If you're an elf then your PP may give you bonuses and youre suddenly better than the man at arms!

My diabolist PC used to generally have -

Protection from:
Magic x2
Invisible
Charm

All on his face (have to be in sight). (Put a protection from magic ward on each cheek and you can have hours of fun pretending you're the doll-thing from the film SAW).

Inflict:
Invisilbity

On his chest.

diabolists and summoners generally dont use their PPE in a battle. Get yourself a suit of magical plate!

Also, get a spellcaster buddy in the group, act as his PPE battery. I think Warlocks are the only casters who cant take your PPE.

another option is to multi-class 1 level into wizard. get you some spells that are highly useful for utility, and increase your PPE reserve by the highest amount any class gets in the game.

Delwugor wrote:We are starting a PF campaign in the next couple of weeks after a 2+ year hiatus. Well I am wanting to play something really interesting and what comes across my demented mind? The Diabolist looks really awesome to play as a support character: Wards, research, Wards, protection Wards, traps, Wards, removing Wards, defense ... oh did I mention Wards.

I see two problems that I'd come across that I am asking advice for.

The first is that as I see being prepared before hand with wards is crucial to being effective to the party. But what wards should my character have prepped in general? Of course there will be specifics to what is going on that will have to be prepped but I'm more looking at general utility and common wards.

Second is that it looks like a Diabolist is more or less ineffective in direct combat. Now I usually have no problem playing weak combat characters but in this case there will only be 3 characters. Having 1 ineffective combatant with 4-5 characters does not cause a problem, but 1 out of 3 can be a problem. The good part here is the GM does not focus his campaigns on heavy or overly deadly combat, but I'm still concerned that my character wouldn't be able to pull his weight.

Any help from those that have played this potentially awesome class would be appreciated very much.

My advice is to scrap the "no throwing activated wards like grenades" rule as well as the "no putting wards on weapons" rule.

With these two small changes the Diabolist can have a sword that can "inflict" death, blindness, agony, etc. depending on how he has it warded up and which wards he wants to activate that encounter. Pemanance combined with the death ward so the sword always does more damage is a good one if you can get the deamon/dragon bone needed for the permanence ward.
While also having grenades to inflict AoE blindness,agony, or death.

As long as you keep the rule that once a ward is activated it cannot be activated a 2nd time and the ward must be redrawn on the item for it to be used again, then these other changes are kept in check since the Diabolist still has to spend HOURS of non-combat time to prepair his arsenal.

Sure he has a rock or three that he can pitch into melee to do AoE death, blindness, agony (but would also harm friends unless they were specifically immune) but he either needs to collect those rocks and re-ward them or get new rocks and ward them. So while they may save the day with some well used ward phrases they will then need to spend hours or days collecting supplies and restocking their arsenal.

Plus in combat it can be hard to find the right ward amongst all the diabolist carries. In a game I was in their was a diabolist that was allowed to play this way by the GM but the GM also said that if the diabolist had more than 8 different ward phrases of available (ie if one pocket was full of "inflict AoE Death" then that was only one phrase even if there was 20 of that phrase in the pocket) to choose from there was either a 1 action penalty to choose the specific ward they wanted to implement or there was a 10% chance for each phrase over the 8th, of grabbing the wrong one and implementing that.

So if the character had 10 different ward phrases in 10 different pockets he could either take one action to pick the right one then another action to activate and toss it or could choose to activate and toss it using only one action but if the GM rolled under 20% then they had grabbed and activated and tossed the wrong ward. GM's call as to which of the 9 wrong phrases was activated.

Take one seemingly mundane object, ward the hell out of it while carving it all over with mystic symbols, then spend the whole game acting like it's the source of vast power.

Starmage21 wrote:another option is to multi-class 1 level into wizard. get you some spells that are highly useful for utility, and increase your PPE reserve by the highest amount any class gets in the game.

If you can find someone to teach you and you have years the PC can dedicate himself to nothing but learning diabolism, sure.

Like a booby trap. You ward it before the victim uses it again. Which is different than carrying it around waiting for the right opportunity to activate.

I don't mind this rule, although it depends on the campaign, some times it makes diabolists much fun to have such crow's feet in his satchel if he can use them like hand grenades.

J. Lionheart wrote:When running a Diabolist, I personally make it a point to have every stinking lore and language skill I can possibly muster. Pile on the science and technical and medical skills like there's no tommorrow, and take a single W.P., HtH Basic, and call it a day for combat. You can work your butt off on that one weapon skill so you can still whack things from time to time, but what you want to focus on is making combat easier.

Yea, 2E really changed the flavour of the diabolist . The P.P.E. isn't so bad but if I had to pick just one version I'd go 1E and maybe poisoned crossbow bolts, alignment willing.

Logus Vile wrote:

Natasha wrote:Like a booby trap. You ward it before the victim uses it again. Which is different than carrying it around waiting for the right opportunity to activate.

I'm starting to get really confused as I re-read the book.

as for your answer: so if I booby trap (inscribe ward and activate) a sword before a the owner uses it. that is fine. however, if i inscribe a ward on a sword, don't energize it and wait for the right time to do it. It is not possible.

However, it says you can use the bushwhack tactic and then later it says you can't leave something lying around for someone to step on. Isn't it the same thing? Leaving a sword lying around for someone to grab is the same as leaving a parchment with a ward on the floor for someone to step on.

Hm. It certainly does seem confusing if it says that you can't leave it laying around, that sort of totally defeats the purpose of alarms and area affects. I'd have to re-read everything again. My 1E book is at a friend's; I'm not sure I know where my 2E rules are.

The spirit of the rules however seem to be such that the diabolist isn't supposed to be a melee fighter.

Back in First Ed, one PC started making "Hand Grenades" with his diabolist, cannot remember what wards he used, was to long ago, he even called them "Holy hand grenades of Antioc" I forgave that one, but when he started to make "Summoning Grenades" I called it a day !

Natasha wrote:

Logus Vile wrote:

Natasha wrote:Like a booby trap. You ward it before the victim uses it again. Which is different than carrying it around waiting for the right opportunity to activate.

I'm starting to get really confused as I re-read the book.

as for your answer: so if I booby trap (inscribe ward and activate) a sword before a the owner uses it. that is fine. however, if i inscribe a ward on a sword, don't energize it and wait for the right time to do it. It is not possible.

However, it says you can use the bushwhack tactic and then later it says you can't leave something lying around for someone to step on. Isn't it the same thing? Leaving a sword lying around for someone to grab is the same as leaving a parchment with a ward on the floor for someone to step on.

Hm. It certainly does seem confusing if it says that you can't leave it laying around, that sort of totally defeats the purpose of alarms and area affects. I'd have to re-read everything again. My 1E book is at a friend's; I'm not sure I know where my 2E rules are.

The spirit of the rules however seem to be such that the diabolist isn't supposed to be a melee fighter.

Going with the spirit of the rules is the right idea in terms of sorting out what was meant. In a nutshell, the Diabolist is not just a metaphor or "skin" for a wizard, and should not be approached as a character who can instantly bring a magical solution to bear on a problem. Their type of magic provides customization and specialization in exchange for speed.

In situations like the ones mentioned with making a trap, I think one of the more easily seen key points is that wards are triggered by interaction, movement, touch, etc. so it should be fairly easy to determine what sorts of object will or will not make a suitable surface for inscribing a ward, and how likely it is that a ward can survive without activation until the intended target comes in contact with it.

As an example, trying to put a ward on a sword which then goes into a tight-fitting scabbard is not such a place. In many cases, wards are combinations of drawings, paints, powders, glue, and other fiddly-bits which are likely to get damaged, scraped off, or marred by too much contact or handling.

As another example, trying to ward a saddle leads to the question, what will set it off? Putting the saddle on the horse? Cinching it? The horse just standing around being a horse and doing the horse-y things that horses do? (play, arounding, etc) There are lots of things which might activate the ward in undesired ways and times.

Cloth, paper, and other sorts of unroll, etch and go, solutions all fall prey to the same problem: damage in transit.

Perhaps one key point which gets glossed over, misssed, or perhaps was never intended at all, is in relation to what energizing the ward entails. I think it is good to view it as a process of energizing the ward, but included in this is making the ward a part of the object it is designed to protect or affect. It is not expressly stated in the rules, but I think that this makes for good atmosphere, and provides a mystical rather than technological feel to the process of using and creating wards. While it should be possible to inscribe an alarm ward, with area effect and exclusions for the party members and small animals, on a metal disc with a wire for hanging it on tree branches and nails, etc and make it permanent... it just lacks all the magical elements that you would get from roleplaying the diabolist gathering their components, and enchanting a ward that works in this spot, based around this tree, in this valley.

Know what I mean?

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Runeslinger
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