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Nekira Sudacne wrote:It was sleeping.

popscythe wrote:I don't actually have any dragon PCs, I just like talking about Dragons getting their "just deserts" (with great power comes great responsibility, right? mwahahahaha!).

I was thinking:

Day 1: Dragon and Co. wandering around somewhere in little populated CS territory.
Night 1: CS Psi-Stalker and Dog Pack spies observe party w/dragon from extreme range and try like hell to avoid combat.
Day 2: Death's Head flies overhead a few times at great altitude. "Fair Warning"
Night 2: Skelebots Rain from the Heavens (2d10). SAMAS (6) hiding "Nearby" (2 melees away) watch Skelebot feeds and wait to reinforce when needed. SAMAS engage from max range, from the air. SAMAS retreat rather than take losses, if needed
Day 3, "The @#$%fest": Dragon Juicers (2) come out for blood, attacking the party as they recover from their CS encounter just before dawn. Describe the sun just peeking above the horizon as the ultra-fast blood fueled murder men spring into the midst of camp. The CS reengage 1d4 Melees later, this time with the surviving SAMAS from the earlier raid, 3 Super SAMAS, 2 Military Specialists (In Robot Vehicles) 2d10 Dead Boys and 1d4x10 Skelebots (Both In troop transports). CS engages primary targets (Dragon and Dragon Juicers). Psi-Stalker and Dog Pack arrive after lots of battle has already transpired (2d6 melees) to track dragon if it escapes or teleports away.

And that's why being a Dragon in North America is a rough time. What do you guys think? That situation seems fair, avoidable if intelligent and mutable based on the situation, doesn't it? If the players ignore /don't notice themselves being watched, the CS will surely get them over time either way. The Dragon Juicers are actually to even the score between the Dragon and the CS during the fight (though they'll be trying to kill the Dragon too), and to demonstrate that running far away from the CS will only get you so far when you are physically made out of everything awesome in the world. On a side note, I wonder what dragon tastes like? What clever solutions will the party take to hide their brimming magic beacon from their enemies? Will the Dragon successfully teleport to some random location and be engaged by further horrible threats from the Rifts? Will TinTin and Snowy ever figure out the secret of the Seven Crystal Balls?

SkyeFyre wrote:Dragon Juicers would only be attacking an adult dragon as it specifically states that they need the blood of an adult dragon to lengthen their lifespan. Hatchlings wouldn't do the trick. So why are these dragon juicers after the dragon?

johnkretzer wrote:

SkyeFyre wrote:Dragon Juicers would only be attacking an adult dragon as it specifically states that they need the blood of an adult dragon to lengthen their lifespan. Hatchlings wouldn't do the trick. So why are these dragon juicers after the dragon?

Dragon Juicers need to resuply their Bio-Comp with dragon blood...any age dragon will do.

G wrote:I've played a dragon for a decent length of time. I'll try and address the issues as I see them:

Dragon juicers will only be in the employ of dragons. There are many reasons for this, I'm not even going to list them, think about it and you should be able to figure it out. They will not be created by the CS, because the dragon juicer is a magical process and the net result is something that will set off a dogboys supernatural senses. Dragons would simply put a million credits on the life of EVERY dragon juicer not in the employ of a dragon and more for anyone who creates them not for use by dragons. You could probably check records of the creators and use divination to SUMMON dragon juicers if you wanted...they just won't last past their first kill if not in the employ of a dragon. Dragons live a long time, have lots of money and would not let themselves be targeted.

There are lots of ways to challenge any PC, if you are a GM specifically trying to kill your PC - you are a bad GM.

PRE-COMBAT - Expect them all to have 6th sense and clairvoyance. They will know you want to attack them and have at least invisibility already in place. Ex. Before the Tolkeen war I feel like going from the city of Dragons to a one of the other Tolkeen cities to buy TW items. The Dragon is flying along minding his own business 1 mile up along a ley line, when 6th sense goes off. The Dragon turns invisible then shapeshifts into a bird and continues flying while using clairvoyance to see what its immediate future holds. A CS long range patrol is charting the area to prep for war. They saw it vanish, then vanish from radar and panic. They hide and a dogboy activates see invisible & clairvoyance as its 6th sense goes off. The dragon sees itself being attacked by SAMAS. The dogboy sees flashes of fire. the dragon decides to use telepathy to read any unshielded minds...There are lots of ways this can go, and they don't all involve combat. This is a RPG not a spyro game.

COMBAT - As a dragon you have decent mobility, one of the first thing I did was to get even more. Magic is your friend here. On top of that even then spells like targeted deflection are going to be in every dragons list, so any large attacks are either going to be teleport dodged or reflected back at you. Lots of small attacks are the way to go. As a PC I found it exciting when the GM used other dragons - why? because of the RP opportunity. They also keep you on your toes cause you really have no idea how powerful they are compared to you. However, there are tons of ways to challenge every char.

Oddly enough I found moving around in enemy territory at full size was much like painting a big target on myself. There is no need to walk around CS territory, there is an entire megaverse out there. Fortunately dragons have natural abilities to get around people trying to kill them, (or phase fields...). Invisibility, chameleon, shadow meld, etc, can be used all day long if you like. I made CONSTANT use of all my standard dragon abilities.

G wrote:I've played a dragon for a decent length of time. I'll try and address the issues as I see them:

Dragon juicers will only be in the employ of dragons. There are many reasons for this, I'm not even going to list them, think about it and you should be able to figure it out. They will not be created by the CS, because the dragon juicer is a magical process and the net result is something that will set off a dogboys supernatural senses. Dragons would simply put a million credits on the life of EVERY dragon juicer not in the employ of a dragon and more for anyone who creates them not for use by dragons. You could probably check records of the creators and use divination to SUMMON dragon juicers if you wanted...they just won't last past their first kill if not in the employ of a dragon. Dragons live a long time, have lots of money and would not let themselves be targeted.

keir451 wrote:Palladium once published an adventure dealing with a Dragon, a Hydra, and a Beast Dragon. My players were a GB pilot, a SAMAS pilot, a Cyber Knight (w/hover cycle w/ missiles) and a Gunslinger.
In dealing w/ the Beast dragon the GB leaped on to it's back and deployed the pylons into it's spine, killing a head. The rest of the party used long range attacks to weaken the dragon while the Gb dumped rounds into it.
The Hydra turned into simple slug fest, and finally the Dragon; (I went kinda easy on them as I didn't want them to die) but basically the GB did the most damage from range w/the Boom gun, the cyber knight used his 'cycle to launch missiles, the SAMAs pilot kept buzzing the dragon distracting him while firing his railgun, and the gvunslinger fired from behind the GB w/an ensrgy rifle found in the dragons hoard.
Basically Power Armor and long range weaponry was how my players did it.

G wrote:I've played a dragon for a decent length of time.

popscythe wrote:
I can tell. Thanks for your input. If I ever wanted to kill YOUR dragon, I'll keep what you said in mind. I'm not usually a "bad GM" but if you were in my game I might make an exception.

Just kidding!

No thoughts on 3x SAMAS vs Hatchling if they were fighting just to fight?

How about GB vs Hatchling?

For the record we're talking standard 1st level RUE hatchling here. No spells yet, hth dragon, etc.

popscythe wrote:How would YOU kill a dragon hatchling pc as a GM?

G wrote: It really depends how you play the high IQ child mentality.

Noon wrote:By being passive aggressive

duck-foot wrote:

Iron Manticore wrote:"Nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

is that a movie quate?

popscythe wrote:Just had a discussion with some old Rifts players about Dragon PCs and it boiled down to killing dragons.

Lets hear everyone's ideas on the subject. How would YOU kill a dragon hatchling pc as a GM?

Retired Juicer wrote:missiles

popscythe wrote:They don't get teleport dodge until level 10 though, so missiles away in the mean time!

Also, I see the bonus teleport dodge is supposed to give to dodging, but I don't see the small bonus to teleport for combat purposes only. I think that line might have remained accidentally after it was decided that making a successful dodge roll just "Set off" teleport dodge.

Lenwen wrote:

popscythe wrote:They don't get teleport dodge until level 10 though, so missiles away in the mean time!

Also, I see the bonus teleport dodge is supposed to give to dodging, but I don't see the small bonus to teleport for combat purposes only. I think that line might have remained accidentally after it was decided that making a successful dodge roll just "Set off" teleport dodge.

Very true ..

Just hope that wee little dragon hatchling is not lvl 10+ .. your screwed ..

Can you see it now ..

Teleport dodge ONTO YOUR FACE !!

ENRAGED DRAGON HATCHLING ON YO FACE WITH ALL HIS ATTACKS LEFT !!

That .. would prolly be a bad day for anyone ..

Lenwen wrote:Rune weapon. Damage is 3d6x10 (Undersea's Rune weapon)

Activate my Tat
Weapon covered in flames with a coiled serpant around it: 3d6x10 is now .. 6x6x10
(double damage to all Serpant beings)

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:Rune weapon. Damage is 3d6x10 (Undersea's Rune weapon)

Activate my Tat
Weapon covered in flames with a coiled serpant around it: 3d6x10 is now .. 6x6x10
(double damage to all Serpant beings)

Unfortunately, no. The tattoo summons a weapon to use, it doesn't enhance or combine with any other weapon, be it a rune weapon or vibro-blade.

(Also, your math is wrong. The tattoo does triple damage to dragons, not double.)

Zer0 Kay wrote:

keir451 wrote:Palladium once published an adventure dealing with a Dragon, a Hydra, and a Beast Dragon. My players were a GB pilot, a SAMAS pilot, a Cyber Knight (w/hover cycle w/ missiles) and a Gunslinger.
In dealing w/ the Beast dragon the GB leaped on to it's back and deployed the pylons into it's spine, killing a head. The rest of the party used long range attacks to weaken the dragon while the Gb dumped rounds into it.
The Hydra turned into simple slug fest, and finally the Dragon; (I went kinda easy on them as I didn't want them to die) but basically the GB did the most damage from range w/the Boom gun, the cyber knight used his 'cycle to launch missiles, the SAMAs pilot kept buzzing the dragon distracting him while firing his railgun, and the gvunslinger fired from behind the GB w/an ensrgy rifle found in the dragons hoard.
Basically Power Armor and long range weaponry was how my players did it.

Awesome... except the pylons each only do something like 2MD or something simmularly low like that. I beleive it is covered in the GB section of Mutants in Space.

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:Rune weapon. Damage is 3d6x10 (Undersea's Rune weapon)

Activate my Tat
Weapon covered in flames with a coiled serpant around it: 3d6x10 is now .. 6x6x10
(double damage to all Serpant beings)

Unfortunately, no. The tattoo summons a weapon to use, it doesn't enhance or combine with any other weapon, be it a rune weapon or vibro-blade.

(Also, your math is wrong. The tattoo does triple damage to dragons, not double.)

its up for debat .. either or ..

As most Tats that actually Create weapon's .. clearly state in the Tats description .. "Creates such an such ..

The Tat in question does in fact not state it "Creates a weapon.

Ergo .. it is up for debat.

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:Rune weapon. Damage is 3d6x10 (Undersea's Rune weapon)

Activate my Tat
Weapon covered in flames with a coiled serpant around it: 3d6x10 is now .. 6x6x10
(double damage to all Serpant beings)

Unfortunately, no. The tattoo summons a weapon to use, it doesn't enhance or combine with any other weapon, be it a rune weapon or vibro-blade.

(Also, your math is wrong. The tattoo does triple damage to dragons, not double.)

its up for debat .. either or ..

As most Tats that actually Create weapon's .. clearly state in the Tats description .. "Creates such an such ..

The Tat in question does in fact not state it "Creates a weapon.

Ergo .. it is up for debat.

No, it's not. It's clearly covered in the first sentence under the Tattoos: Magic Weapons header on p86. The only weapon tattoo that would affect a Rune weapon is the Two Weapons Crossed.

Lenwen wrote:Mack please show me in the Tattoo's Write up ..

where it CLEARLY STATES IT CREATES .. a weapon ?

Lemme know how that hunt turns out for ya ..

Mack wrote:It's clearly covered in the first sentence under the Tattoos: Magic Weapons header on p86.

Stormchild wrote:

popscythe wrote:What about the Crossed Chopsticks Tattoo?
400 PPE to activate, turns target dragon into Dragon Katsu Don.

I wonder if they could be modified... I like the Idea of Mongolian Dragon, or maybe even Dragon Lo Mein, but I really think that Dragon would have to strong of a flavor and clash with the spices in the Katsu...

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:Mack please show me in the Tattoo's Write up ..

where it CLEARLY STATES IT CREATES .. a weapon ?

Lemme know how that hunt turns out for ya ..

It's easier just to quote myself:

Mack wrote:It's clearly covered in the first sentence under the Tattoos: Magic Weapons header on p86.

Or, if you really want to show you're not just making stuff up, you could show ANY SUPPORT for that tattoo granting a bonus to a Rune weapon.

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:Mack please show me in the Tattoo's Write up ..

where it CLEARLY STATES IT CREATES .. a weapon ?

Lemme know how that hunt turns out for ya ..

It's easier just to quote myself:

Mack wrote:It's clearly covered in the first sentence under the Tattoos: Magic Weapons header on p86.

Or, if you really want to show you're not just making stuff up, you could show ANY SUPPORT for that tattoo granting a bonus to a Rune weapon.

Shark_Force wrote:

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:Mack please show me in the Tattoo's Write up ..

where it CLEARLY STATES IT CREATES .. a weapon ?

Lemme know how that hunt turns out for ya ..

It's easier just to quote myself:

Mack wrote:It's clearly covered in the first sentence under the Tattoos: Magic Weapons header on p86.

Or, if you really want to show you're not just making stuff up, you could show ANY SUPPORT for that tattoo granting a bonus to a Rune weapon.

*grumbles about having to walk across the room to get the book out*

Also stated in the Rifts Book of Magic, page 234, under the heading "Magic Weapon Tattoos"

the first line reads as follows: "Magic weapons are magic tattoos that create a seemingly real, physical weapon out of thin air." (bolding added to emphasise the relevant words, the stuff in between being adjectives)

from this statement, we can deduce that magic weapon tattoos create weapons.