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Dustin Fireblade wrote:I generally don't have any problems making up the basic character's stats. The background may take some more time though.


I'd suggest, when you have time, just making up some pre-made character's for new or last minute players if you have that sort of thing happen frequently.

There is a guy around here who made up a awesome generator, but I haven't seen him online for a long time (forum name - Gadrin). You could try searching for him, send him a message and see if he can't send you a number of his pre-made character's.

Thinyser wrote:

Dustin Fireblade wrote:I generally don't have any problems making up the basic character's stats. The background may take some more time though.


I'd suggest, when you have time, just making up some pre-made character's for new or last minute players if you have that sort of thing happen frequently.

There is a guy around here who made up a awesome generator, but I haven't seen him online for a long time (forum name - Gadrin). You could try searching for him, send him a message and see if he can't send you a number of his pre-made character's.

I've got his generator from being in one of his games and beta testing it for him (and its fairly decent) but have been sworn never to share it since its not my creation and though I would never charge for it there are likly some sort of Palladium copyright issue even with simply sharing it for use of fellow gamers... not sure about the sharing of the output of the generator though. That might be OK.

gelidus wrote:What makes rifts hard to get other people to play.....

Lenwen wrote:

gelidus wrote:What makes rifts hard to get other people to play.....

I have no clue, I recently moved from Ft Walton Beach Florida, to Fargo N.D. and "attempted" to start up a Rifts game at my local Gaming shop with what seemed to be 5-7 VERY heavy gamers ..

I said I was I was interested in running a campaign for them and they were VERY interested when I said what the general scope of the campaign would be ..

Then I stated it would be in the "Rifts" world and immediatly .. they all backed out ..

I was going to start a thread to ask nearly identical question to this, but it seems you beat my to the punch..

I am VERY curious .. why is Rifts as polerizing as it is .. either you love it .. or you hate it .. I've YET .. in my entire gaming years (since prior to Palladium books came along) Never seen anything like it ..

Why is Palladium Product's .. a total hit or miss with people in general ?

keir451 wrote:Why'd you move from Florida to North Dakota? I mean I know you're insane, but NORTH DAKOTA?

keir451 wrote:Yeah it's hard at times to find people to game w/ in general it's even harder at times to find Rifts players. I'm not sure why, but maybe some players of other games have heard all the "bad things" about Rifts and don't know the Truth. 'course maybe they realized you were Lenwen and ran away scared.

keir451 wrote:But seriously Rifts isn't for everyone esp. some who prefer D&D, or other systems. Those of us who do enjoy Rifts are a very eclectic group in many ways, we can disagree (even hate) the way others run their Rifts games but in the end we'd still be in that persons game just because it's Rifts (at least I would).

duck-foot wrote:no a big problem is not the sophistication of gamers. its laziness, i mean look at all the damn MM for dnd, do you really need that? what happaned to imagination? i got it use the freakin templates, there is no need to bye 6 MM. todays new GM are lazy. its one thing to want a more defined system, but when you dont have enough imagination to make up your own world or creature then you dont need to be a GM.

Thinyser wrote:often vague or broken and in need of a fix

popscythe wrote:

Thinyser wrote:often vague or broken and in need of a fix

Oh? Like what, exactly?

Every specific example I've heard on these forums already are either errata type stuff that you see in all RPGs or the result of bad understanding of the rules on the part of the plaintiff.

popscythe wrote:Preconceptions and low quality players. Rifts was clearly written for strong players and to be run by strong GMs. Man-children can screw up anything complex more easily than they can the Playskool carwash.

Ubiquity wrote:

Zamion wrote:What i find works well is not to allow alot of books....."ok so we got main book mercs one, warmachine and lone star and juicer uprising"...what ever pick 4 books and the main book lock it down that these are what you can choose your starting gear and occ's/rcc's from and call it a day , you can expand your game if they travle...or stare at them hard and say , "dude come on were doing a NA game here , we can do SA next time or you can run it" If they got a problem with that tell them to **** off and nuke them

I think you have brought up an excellent point. I think the plethora of world/source/conversion books is about adding variety and scope to games that can be played and the direction they take. If your game is centered around Chi-Town, there is no need for OCCs from England or Africa or even the dimensional market. The chances of OCCs world hopping, especially at low level, is beyond unlikely. Even in today's modern world, what percentage of people ever leave their home continent? Just because all of these resources exist does not mean they need to, or should be, used. They are there if they NEED to be used. I think you are absolutely right.

Mack wrote:

popscythe wrote:Playskool

Let's not pass judgement on other's preferred games.

Stormchild wrote:You remind me of a zealot-chihuahua on crack..... and acid.

Thinyser wrote:As a single example of something vague/broken look at the psi slinger and his weapon link.

popscythe wrote:

Mack wrote:

popscythe wrote:Playskool

Let's not pass judgement on other's preferred games.

No problem.

Stormchild wrote:You remind me of a zealot-chihuahua on crack..... and acid.

So I rationally ask for specifics and thus I must be using crack cocaine and acid, and be a mexcian dog.
You remind me of a gently misguided child who blames math being "too hard" for the reason that he didn't want to put in the effort to learn it.

Thinyser wrote:As a single example of something vague/broken look at the psi slinger and his weapon link.

I'll have to look into it, I haven't read the western books. But really, are there any better examples than a specific class ability from what, book 30ish?
It appears through much crackaciddog discussion and research that the majority of difficult interpretations are based someone making a mistake, or an errata issue.
If the same questions keep coming up, have you considered the possibility that the majority of bad scholars come online to ask for the answer for a question rather than reading the book with the answer inside it? Don't those threads almost uniformly start with "Sorry to ask if this has been brought up already (didn't search the forums) but I just got the book and I had a question about it (didn't read the book)..."

Thinyser wrote:but you wont convince me or most of us here

popscythe wrote:

Thinyser wrote:but you wont convince me or most of us here

And there you have it. You think this is about being right, and I think it's about opening the Rifts book and reading it.

Thinyser wrote:

popscythe wrote:

Thinyser wrote:but you wont convince me or most of us here

And there you have it. You think this is about being right, and I think it's about opening the Rifts book and reading it.

Believe me we can all read and most gamers I know are quite adept at understanding what they read.

The fact is Rifts is a great world but is lacking in clear rules like a what other systems offer.

If it were as simple as "read it" there would be no debate because the book would give a single conclusive answer. The very fact that there is debate on many subjects strongly indicates that there is a vagueness to the rules that allows for different interpretations.

This leads to more work for GMs and on occasion some heated disagreements that can cause great schisms in groups.

popscythe wrote:But really, are there any better examples than a specific class ability from what, book 30ish?

"It says men of magic and also dragons are like living PPE batteries, able to absorb energy from ley lines, etc. What is the limit to the amount they can absorb, and how long can they retain that extra PPE"

"Practitioners of magic (dragons, demons, spell casters, and similar beings versed in magic) can absorb up to three times their normal limit in PPE. However, most borrowed, captured or stolen PPE can only be held for a short period of time - the mage's P.E. attribute in minutes before it dissipates"

Zamion wrote:I would never write down the stats for all weapons myself....good lord thats alot of work...what i think you should do, is say im sorry your not allowed to have guns from underseas or china....period pretend that books not printed. there is no reason to put yourself through that much hassel ever.....if you and a player think something is diffrent about a gun and the books not with you....just agree on something and go with it, its a game it should be fast paced not a long look up of peice of random ass gear that players are probly gonna sell anyhow.

Stormchild wrote:anyone that isn't willing to have a notebook full of house rules is lazy

popscythe wrote:

Stormchild wrote:anyone that isn't willing to have a notebook full of house rules is lazy

Actually, it's quite a bit more simple than that. Anyone who hasn't read the book closely enough or understood the rules well enough to believe that a book of house rules is required (I use zero in my weekly game) doesn't know the system well enough to complain that it needs fixing or is hard to play. That does very much include 75% of the gaming community. The lowest, most common denominator of the gaming community. The lazy, the poor scholars and the inattentive are who don't like the system. Not because it's too hard, but because it isn't too simple. The RPGs some people are comparing Rifts too are literally the baby food of RPGs, made by Hasbro, a children's toy company. That's not to be insulting, it's literally that they are RPGs for beginner role players. However, when you claim things that are not true, and define zealot at me (give me a break sir, I'm a Rifts(tm) player.) you're not arguing your point, you're calling me names. That's not what this thread is about, this thread is about the laziness and preconceptions that poor and inexperienced players have and poor or inexperienced GMs may have caused that make people who have been given a vague negative impression as a third party think "Man, that game Rifts sounds hard, or broken or something, I don't even see it's books in the store, it must not be good." THAT is why Rifts is "hard" (if it truly is) to get people to play. Not enough paid reviews in gaming magazines, and too many overly vocal poor workers who blame their tools.

ZorValachan wrote:
Another example:
Look at the Operator OCC. He is given skills in Electrical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering. When these skills are looked up in the skill section, they show requirements of Advanced Math, Basic Mechanics, and Literacy, ALL which are not on the OCC list. So now the debate is:
1) Does he get those skills for free?
2) Does he get those skills as part of the more advanced ones, but at the advanced ones' level?
3) Must he use OCC related skills to fill in these gaps?
4) Must he use Secondary skill to fill in the gap?
5) ignore it?

This is not the only OCC, BTS-2's occupations run rampant with this type of neglect in back-sourcing skills.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:RUE pg 299 explains this.

popscythe wrote:

Stormchild wrote:anyone that isn't willing to have a notebook full of house rules is lazy

Actually, it's quite a bit more simple than that. Anyone who hasn't read the book closely enough or understood the rules well enough to believe that a book of house rules is required (I use zero in my weekly game) doesn't know the system well enough to complain that it needs fixing or is hard to play. That does very much include 75% of the gaming community. The lowest, most common denominator of the gaming community. The lazy, the poor scholars and the inattentive are who don't like the system. Not because it's too hard, but because it isn't too simple. The RPGs some people are comparing Rifts too are literally the baby food of RPGs, made by Hasbro, a children's toy company. That's not to be insulting, it's literally that they are RPGs for beginner role players. However, when you claim things that are not true, and define zealot at me (give me a break sir, I'm a Rifts(tm) player.) you're not arguing your point, you're calling me names. That's not what this thread is about, this thread is about the laziness and preconceptions that poor and inexperienced players have and poor or inexperienced GMs may have caused that make people who have been given a vague negative impression as a third party think "Man, that game Rifts sounds hard, or broken or something, I don't even see it's books in the store, it must not be good." THAT is why Rifts is "hard" (if it truly is) to get people to play. Not enough paid reviews in gaming magazines, and too many overly vocal poor workers who blame their tools.

Jack Daniels wrote:I am not lazy, a poor scholar or inattentive, and I don't like the Palladium system.

Stormchild wrote:discordian

Zamion wrote:The low lv's are a problem, you dont start getting amazing or powerfull stuff to pretty high lv's , now from a Roleplaying perspective so what , but if you want some masterfull mutant or powerfull mage, you will be disapointed if your GM doesnt move advancment along pretty quick for at least awhile ....if all the players are into it you shouldnt take 4 years to get to lv 10 or 12

jhwrench wrote:

Karsus wrote:Couple the very long character creation time with the fact that about 90% of characters die before getting to level 3

Then start at level three. ...

Xyll wrote:http://www.rptools.net/ Try this maybe this will help you out. Love this program plus it is free: )

No movie or music yet but got everything else plus more

Ninjapuppy wrote:I've been playing video games with so called instant gratification on a rail roaded story line for the past 10 years. I've played MMOGs, !st person shooters, and RPG and I stopped playing them about a year ago and returned to Role Playing Books. The elements that were making these types of games good were slowly erroded away and replaced by Linear story lines, Game Creators with the attitude in which it would be " Cool" or " Exiting" for a player to do this, this and this to accomplish a task to get the reward as long as they do what is scripted, all wrapped up in somthiing that is visually pleasing. Be an actor in their story and your simply along for the ride, press a button here, here and here. I can tell you now, other than graphics, nothing has changed in the sports realm and MMOGs are other 1st person games are a snore. My video gaming budget has entirly switched to Palladium Books Role Playing, and its broken system, which has always worked for me. Be your own actor, write your own story, make your own decisions and work with your friends to accomplish tasks. Let the GM enforce the rules and set the ball moving. I don't think that Role Playing is dead, and I think that it will always survive.

I'm still waiting for my MSN style messager where I can talk with up to 12 players at a time, equipped with a dice roller which allows for public viewing and private viewing where al the GM needs to do is request that a player roll a particular dice in private or public for all to see. We can add the bonuses later depending on whatever rule set you play. Add the feature to include pasted/ imported images from the internet or movie and music and bam!, Modern RPG bliss. Still pen and paper, errr, Mouse and Monitor!?