Forums of the Megaverse®

Hello all,

Don't really come to this part of the forum and not completely up to date on Nightspawn (Suck it, McFarlane) stuff, but I had an odd question.

Are the Nightlords and Night Princes a completely male-dominated thing or can there be a NightLady or Night Princess?

Just wondering.

Like Lady Lillith?

Pox wrote:Hello all,

Don't really come to this part of the forum and not completely up to date on Nightspawn (Suck it, McFarlane) stuff, but I had an odd question.

Are the Nightlords and Night Princes a completely male-dominated thing or can there be a NightLady or Night Princess?

Just wondering.

There are female nightlords in Canon, however they are still called Nightlords. It's apparently gender-neutral.

ah...good to know.

I only have the main book and Dark Conversions, so my knowledge is pretty limited. I went for the book, hoping to find some kind of percentages of how the gender divide went (i.e. 60% male, 40% female), but nothing.

Thanks for the help.

Pox wrote:ah...good to know.

I only have the main book and Dark Conversions, so my knowledge is pretty limited. I went for the book, hoping to find some kind of percentages of how the gender divide went (i.e. 60% male, 40% female), but nothing.

Thanks for the help.

It might also help to keep in mind that ALL of the Nightlords are pre-historical. I think the oldest Nightlord was around in Egyptian times but i'm not sure. So their language, like their own names and names for their minions, are likely translations of translations into english. their real name isn't Nightlord, and is probablly something that'd be very hard to pronounce. Nightlord is a simplification, and not necessarily an accurate one.

Rhomphaia wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Pox wrote:ah...good to know.

I only have the main book and Dark Conversions, so my knowledge is pretty limited. I went for the book, hoping to find some kind of percentages of how the gender divide went (i.e. 60% male, 40% female), but nothing.

Thanks for the help.

It might also help to keep in mind that ALL of the Nightlords are pre-historical. I think the oldest Nightlord was around in Egyptian times but i'm not sure. So their language, like their own names and names for their minions, are likely translations of translations into english. their real name isn't Nightlord, and is probablly something that'd be very hard to pronounce. Nightlord is a simplification, and not necessarily an accurate one.

The oldest Nightlord was Moloch and he was Mesopotamian.

But this thread gave a me a great idea for a villain in a NB campaign, a female Night Prince who calls herself a "Night Princess" and dresses the part, complete with a dress in bright, pastel colors, a sparkly scepter and a nice little tiara.

Oh, she also rides a pink pony.

hmmm.... not a unicorn with wings?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Pox wrote:ah...good to know.

I only have the main book and Dark Conversions, so my knowledge is pretty limited. I went for the book, hoping to find some kind of percentages of how the gender divide went (i.e. 60% male, 40% female), but nothing.

Thanks for the help.

It might also help to keep in mind that ALL of the Nightlords are pre-historical. I think the oldest Nightlord was around in Egyptian times but i'm not sure. So their language, like their own names and names for their minions, are likely translations of translations into english. their real name isn't Nightlord, and is probablly something that'd be very hard to pronounce. Nightlord is a simplification, and not necessarily an accurate one.

Youngest actually. One of the books (probably either the corebook or the Nightlands sourcebook) says that the last time someone is known to have become a Nightlord was during the time of ancient Egypt. And the name given for them in the books is Ba'al Ze Neckt, meaning "Lords of Night" in made-up Carellaspeak.

el magico -- darklorddc wrote:There are probably Night Princesses, but they'd be very rare. Lillith is an exception in that she rose to power in a male-dominated world far, far harsher on women than our own. Lillith's gender is a testament to her intelligence and ambition. She overcame huge obstacles to become a Nightlord.

WAY TO GO LILLITH! YOU GO GRRRRL!

el magico -- darklorddc wrote:There are probably Night Princesses, but they'd be very rare. Lillith is an exception in that she rose to power in a male-dominated world far, far harsher on women than our own. Lillith's gender is a testament to her intelligence and ambition. She overcame huge obstacles to become a Nightlord.

We don't know diddly about the world Lillith grew up in, except that she was a slave and started her journey to asskicking power by seducing a priest of night. The Nightlord empire on Earth existed at an entirely imaginary made-up period of history that supposedly involved mighty nations and a golden age of magic that happened a good five thousand years before the oldest civilizations known to archeology emerged.

Until a writer decides to take a closer look at the war which ended with the exile of the Nightlords, we'll never know what gender roles were like back then. Although it's safe to assume that at least some civilizations back then were a lot more progressive about womens' rights than any real-life classical civilizations were, purely because repressive patriarchal gender politics is a pain in the ass that a lot of people find gets in the way of having fun with an RPG

Rallan wrote:

el magico -- darklorddc wrote:There are probably Night Princesses, but they'd be very rare. Lillith is an exception in that she rose to power in a male-dominated world far, far harsher on women than our own. Lillith's gender is a testament to her intelligence and ambition. She overcame huge obstacles to become a Nightlord.

We don't know diddly about the world Lillith grew up in, except that she was a slave and started her journey to asskicking power by seducing a priest of night. The Nightlord empire on Earth existed at an entirely imaginary made-up period of history that supposedly involved mighty nations and a golden age of magic that happened a good five thousand years before the oldest civilizations known to archeology emerged.

Until a writer decides to take a closer look at the war which ended with the exile of the Nightlords, we'll never know what gender roles were like back then. Although it's safe to assume that at least some civilizations back then were a lot more progressive about womens' rights than any real-life classical civilizations were, purely because repressive patriarchal gender politics is a pain in the ass that a lot of people find gets in the way of having fun with an RPG

I think he's telling you what to include in your next book.

Whaaaatever. That's gotta be the biggest load of malarchy-bull, I have ever heard. Yes, the era in which the Nightlords had originally rose to power was a pre-historically ancient one that saw it's downfall well before many of our current "ancient" civilizations had come to power.

However, let us not be unrealistic about this: It's stated on more than a few occasions that whatever civilization the Nightlords came into power was a male dominated society. And this arrogance actually continues with them to current times. Many of the Nightlords are male chauvanist pigs, who are supremely confident in their own power and abilities. This could be that they are Nightlords... but most of them resent Lilith's rise to power and hold her in contempt at being a Nightlord.

Johnathan wrote:Whaaaatever. That's gotta be the biggest load of malarchy-bull, I have ever heard. Yes, the era in which the Nightlords had originally rose to power was a pre-historically ancient one that saw it's downfall well before many of our current "ancient" civilizations had come to power.

However, let us not be unrealistic about this: It's stated on more than a few occasions that whatever civilization the Nightlords came into power was a male dominated society. And this arrogance actually continues with them to current times. Many of the Nightlords are male chauvanist pigs, who are supremely confident in their own power and abilities. This could be that they are Nightlords... but most of them resent Lilith's rise to power and hold her in contempt at being a Nightlord.

Yes but the nation that the Nightlords took over from within was just one golden age fantasy utopian empire among many. If you wanted you could have fantasy empires running the gamut from amazon matriarchies through to thinly veiled Gor ripoffs, especially since this is a Palladium setting we're talking about here so we don't have to worry about these lost empires having cultures that are even remotely realistic.

Johnathan wrote:Whaaaatever. That's gotta be the biggest load of malarchy-bull, I have ever heard. Yes, the era in which the Nightlords had originally rose to power was a pre-historically ancient one that saw it's downfall well before many of our current "ancient" civilizations had come to power.

However, let us not be unrealistic about this: It's stated on more than a few occasions that whatever civilization the Nightlords came into power was a male dominated society. And this arrogance actually continues with them to current times. Many of the Nightlords are male chauvanist pigs, who are supremely confident in their own power and abilities. This could be that they are Nightlords... but most of them resent Lilith's rise to power and hold her in contempt at being a Nightlord.

AFAIK IT's never stated that they are chauvanist, much less that they came from a male dominated society.

Sir_Spirit wrote:

Johnathan wrote:Whaaaatever. That's gotta be the biggest load of malarchy-bull, I have ever heard. Yes, the era in which the Nightlords had originally rose to power was a pre-historically ancient one that saw it's downfall well before many of our current "ancient" civilizations had come to power.

However, let us not be unrealistic about this: It's stated on more than a few occasions that whatever civilization the Nightlords came into power was a male dominated society. And this arrogance actually continues with them to current times. Many of the Nightlords are male chauvanist pigs, who are supremely confident in their own power and abilities. This could be that they are Nightlords... but most of them resent Lilith's rise to power and hold her in contempt at being a Nightlord.

AFAIK IT's never stated that they are chauvanist, much less that they came from a male dominated society.

not 100% sure the word chauvinist is used, but read the information on lillith in book 2 (nightlands) and it definitely describes them as being male-dominated.

Did They tell the number of Nightlords and Night prince?

I like to see examples of female Night Princes?

gaby wrote:Did They tell the number of Nightlords and Night prince?

I like to see examples of female Night Princes?

It said that no one knows how many nightlords there are, but it's somewhere between fifty (very conservative) and one thousand (ultra high end extreme).

Each Nightlord can have anywhere between four and several dozen night princes.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

gaby wrote:Did They tell the number of Nightlords and Night prince?

I like to see examples of female Night Princes?

It said that no one knows how many nightlords there are, but it's somewhere between fifty (very conservative) and one thousand (ultra high end extreme).

Each Nightlord can have anywhere between four and several dozen night princes.

It can also be assumed that "Night Princesses" are indeed possible. As the term "Nightlord" is, itself, not necessary male dominant (Since Lilith is STILL designated as a Nightlord... even though she doesn't much care for the term.), so goes the same for Night Prince. One can assume they would have all the same abilities, powers, weaknesses and vulnerabilities as a Night Prince.

After all... it's just a title, right?

Pretty much.

Johnathan wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

gaby wrote:Did They tell the number of Nightlords and Night prince?

I like to see examples of female Night Princes?

It said that no one knows how many nightlords there are, but it's somewhere between fifty (very conservative) and one thousand (ultra high end extreme).

Each Nightlord can have anywhere between four and several dozen night princes.

It can also be assumed that "Night Princesses" are indeed possible. As the term "Nightlord" is, itself, not necessary male dominant (Since Lilith is STILL designated as a Nightlord... even though she doesn't much care for the term.), so goes the same for Night Prince. One can assume they would have all the same abilities, powers, weaknesses and vulnerabilities as a Night Prince.

After all... it's just a title, right?

again, the write up for lillith specifically mentions that she has multiple night princesses working for her, and that she has more than is usual for a night lord (lady).

but mostly, it's probably a "baddassery" thing. nightlord sounds kinda vaguely intimidating. nightlady sounds kinda... well... like a synonym for "ladies of the night". nightprince also sounds vaguely intimidating. nightprincess? not so much. i'm not quite sure why, but i think it might have something to do with all the fairy tales, stories, movies, etc where the princess needs rescuing that we (I?) grew up with. because somehow "NightQueen" sounds a lot more intimidating then either "Nightlady" or "Nightprincess".

As my Mom would say Women have equal Potential for Good and Evil as Men.