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I have some questions on how to use Demons in my BtS game.

1)What Demons from Hades and Dyval wokr best in Bts?

2)Have you give them special abilities or limiteds unique to bts? and what are they?

3)What types of Adventures do you think they wokr in?

4)Have you come up with original Demons? and If so what are they?

1- any and all

2- No

3- any and all

4-Yes, some have made the Rifter and I've got at least a dozen more I'd like to fully flesh out and submit.

I have a question about Demons myself. How do you keep yourself, as a player from being slaughtered quickly by them. As a GM, how do you keep anything more powerful than a few Hell Hounds from wiping out your party? I mean, if you play them right, and as diabolical as they should be.

Tearstone wrote:I have a question about Demons myself. How do you keep yourself, as a player from being slaughtered quickly by them. As a GM, how do you keep anything more powerful than a few Hell Hounds from wiping out your party? I mean, if you play them right, and as diabolical as they should be.

Thats actually a great question... one that I had hoped to touch on in the victims book in fact.

The more intelligent demons are predators, monsters and killers and so on in every way... but they are also arrogant, belittling, gloating and full of other sins and vices. In some cases these are the best weapons and protection the PC could have against them.

Do not be suprised that begging for mercy, Placating their ego or outright playing to their strengths can save lives. The demons may chest thump, beat and belittle the PC’s for awhile, but they may not feel so inclined to kill them off as they feel they already have the superiority above them, giving opportunities to fight another day or strike when the demon doesn’t expect it. Or in some cases, a brazen, shouting, angry and defiant attitude might even surprise or stun a demon as this is NOT what it expects a mere mortal to do. Even a brief, slight advantage is an advantage.

As for dealing with more beasts like creatures… sure, they may travel in packs, they may be physically superior and may be much more, but they are far from infallible and are in many cases just as stupid as any other beast in the regular world.

The PC’s have superior intelligence, the potential of strategy and tactics, experience, advanced weaponry and psychic/magic potential, and faith and trust in their party to help each other or draw upon one another when needed.

I’ve had players who came up with old fashioned net traps, punji spike traps, electrified water puddles, flashbangs, stun guns, chandler or piano drops and other tactics to slow down and weaken creatures. A player once did a “waving flag in front of the proverbial bull” shtick with a hell hound, and dodged when it leapt at him, sending the hell hound unexpectedly over a sheer cliff instead of dealing with it head on. I have a genius OCC player who abhors violence and spends his time trying to use his surrounds and McGuyver like skills…. He costs me a lot of time explaining the terrains/locations and potential tools and equipment, but I love his creativity and memorable moments he creates in the process. Hell, I’ve had games that went without a single combat action by the players due to their trying to outsmart their opponents instead of straight up fighting and playing into the strengths of the enemy.

The point is, create the diabolical villains and monsters (there’s no game without them), but create opportunities for the larger than life PC’s to use their strengths against them.

See, I have a great group of players that come up with wicked stuff now and again. So that's all good, I've just not had a chance to play-test some things with my group because they haven't touched BTS themselves. However, they -have- had some experience with RIFTS, and have had a blast with that in the past.

Then again, there, the situation is a little different.

Tearstone wrote:See, I have a great group of players that come up with wicked stuff now and again. So that's all good, I've just not had a chance to play-test some things with my group because they haven't touched BTS themselves. However, they -have- had some experience with RIFTS, and have had a blast with that in the past.

Then again, there, the situation is a little different.

LOL! yeah... things are a tad different in the Rifts world.

Tearstone wrote:See, I have a great group of players that come up with wicked stuff now and again. So that's all good, I've just not had a chance to play-test some things with my group because they haven't touched BTS themselves. However, they -have- had some experience with RIFTS, and have had a blast with that in the past.

Then again, there, the situation is a little different.

The BTS main book touches on this in the monsters section, but in many cases the demons arent interested in killing PC's when they can make them run in terror, or haunt them from the shadows and make their lives miserable. That the purest form of terror when your prey is cowering in a corner or always looking over his shoulder as whoever been stalking him could leap out of the dark at any moment. Demons are immortal beings and have all the time in the world to torture and would rather do that than killing things constantly.

Hmm.

Okay, I have another question about demons.
It is stated that demons like to feed on things like hate, anger, fear, and so on, yet they feed on PPE. PPE=emotions/emotional energy?

Rise of Magic from Chaos Earth would seem to support this to an extent.

So, do they feed on emotions, or do they feed on PPE, or are they one and the same? If they feed on the former, but not PPE... how does one measure that?

Tearstone wrote:Hmm.

Okay, I have another question about demons.
It is stated that demons like to feed on things like hate, anger, fear, and so on, yet they feed on PPE. PPE=emotions/emotional energy?

Rise of Magic from Chaos Earth would seem to support this to an extent.

So, do they feed on emotions, or do they feed on PPE, or are they one and the same? If they feed on the former, but not PPE... how does one measure that?

As I understand it, not all BTS demons are PPE vampires. Those that feed on emotions (I'll use my "Scaring Crows" from the Rifter for an example) are called empathic vampires and therefore do what they must to invoke the fears or hatreds it feeds on. Then there are those who seem to be either attacted to a specific emotion (like Banshee's) who come to feed on PPE. Without the book on hand to look at to remind me, Im not aware of a creature that needs both. I may review later and respond.

But still, how do you account for emotional vampirism?

Also kinda reminds me of A.C. Crispin's Black Sun Trilogy. God those were great books.

Maybe it doesn't have to be measured?

Gaby, I don't have the Dyval nor Hades books yet; perhaps I'll get those in my next Surprise Package. Going off of other sources, I do see several good candidates. Among the Dyvallians (what is the proper term anyway?), Deevils, Devilkins, Fiends, & Archfiends are all excellent choices because they are intelligent and have supernatural powers which allow them to move discretely on Earth, invisibility and/or human metamorphasis. Fenri can pass for huge wolves from a distance. Gorgons can't pass for anything else, so I am less likely to use them in a BtS game.

On the Hades Demons' side, most of these demons can turn invisible. Mares already look somewhat like ugly humans anyway. Lasae and Aquatics are underused as spies and ambush attackers. If you hate your players, you can always go with a master shape changer, a Raksasha.

The special rules for using these monsters in BtS are the Weaknesses and Discorporation mechanics. Both represent a tenuous hold on reality on Earth. I would guess that these demons are very wary of these weaknesses, and I would always make these weaknesses available somehow in a game. So if a pack of Hellhounds are terrorizing a town, I would list in my notes all of the silver items scattered around the town for the PCs to find. So if the players don't come up with their own plans or those plans just don't work, they can always fall back on using silver candle sticks as clubs and movie prop silver bullets. Even if the characters don't destroy the Hellhounds, their efforts will still possibly drive the pack away for a night, thus allowing an evacuation of the town and a partial victory.

Lou, that section of the book seems excellent. We are all looking forward to this book.

Lord Z wrote:Gaby, I don't have the Dyval nor Hades books yet...

Among the Dyvallians (what is the proper term anyway?)...

The special rules for using these monsters in BtS are the Weaknesses and Discorporation mechanics...

Lou, that section of the book seems excellent. We are all looking forward to this book..

These books are both worthy additions and I encourage you to get them.

There are notes in each book about how Demons die and how Deevil's die, and both go through a discorporation and rebirth back in their home dimension. Its an interesting note that unless these evils are killed in their home dimensions, they do not die... they merely suffer a rebirth process that takes time and is a humiliating experience. I ran a game not too long ago where a demon returned to extract vengance on a 60+ year old retired Night Hunter who had destroyed its physical body 40 or so years ago.

Honestly, I'm really looking forwward to finishing these dang books... they are taking WAAAAAAY too long to put together. But I really want to do them right and and will take the time needed to complete them.

Per page 9 of Dyval, the minions of Dyval are called "Deevils" while the hieracrchy and natural creatures seem to get the term "Dyvalians" term attached to them. The biggest difference I can tell is that "Deevils" are the mions sent forth to wander the megaverse while the "Dyvalians" are the blokes who run the household.