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Howdy, folks.
How big could a large mercenary company (or a noble say Duke or lower's personal army) grow to be? I know the entire Western Kingdom Army's somewhere in the area of a half million or something...I'm just trying to get a ballpark.

I'd say top limit would be about 5 thousand strong. But that would be an army raised by a Duke or an Earl. As a mercenary organization I wouldn't go any higher than about a thousand for a mercenary company.

Out of curiosity, why do you ask?

Based on historical examples, I'd say a free company likely wouldn't rise above the size of about 500 men, at least not a free company that is going to sustain that size. Mercenary free companies formed that were much larger, but these tended to be short lived organizations that either dispersed or radically reduced their size.

During medieval periods you didn't have 50,000 man armies facing each other. In the early middle ages you had small armies of a few hundred. During the higher middle ages battles still tended to be waged between opposing forces of just a few thousand up to maybe around 10,000 men (a very, very rare one would be larger) and a large number of those people would not be professional soldiers.

With how PFRPG is setup, magic, continual war of some sort of basic employment possible I'd say ignoring historical examples you'd probably find mercenary organizations without political backing raising to maybe the size of a couple of thousand men with possible expansion during a big contract (hiring on a lot of 'peasants' with some minimal training to fill out the ranks when taking on the contract) and then contraction afterward.
-Matt

Runeslinger wrote:Out of curiosity, why do you ask?

Just working on my own little pet project, using a large and powerful mercenary company operating in the forefront of a campaign that I'm planning (that may never be run).
Essentially you have a wealthy knight completely devoted to his king, country and chivalry. The kingdom, which is relatively small is under attack by armies on 3 fronts. He collects on everyone in debt to him, sells off all he owns and raises his own army to save one of the border cities that is besieged. They lift the siege but at a heavy cost. The attackers will be back. He sens a rider to the kingdom capital declaring victory and requesting immediate relief. The king personally saw the rider and sent him back with a detailed letter, acknowledging his family, prowess in battle and sincere gratitude for not letting the city fall along with 4 of his royal guards as a token of good-will. 1 year later, the city has been attacked multiple times and no relief had been sent. A second letter was sent to the king. The rider was turned away at the gates with a note saying, "Dear Commander on the NORTHERN front. As you know we are at war with many other kingdoms. I cannot give up any forces to support you at this time. Hold fast."
Betrayed by king and country, he gathers his officers and they decide "bullocks to the king, bullocks to the kingdom, we'll make a name for ourselves as mercenaries."
I have a lot more written down but that's the jist of it.
The characters will enter the scene either as volunteers for the company, sub-contractors, or maybe even enemies...anyways, I want to have this mercenary company to play a role in the campaign.

Aaryq wrote:Howdy, folks.
How big could a large mercenary company (or a noble say Duke or lower's personal army) grow to be? I know the entire Western Kingdom Army's somewhere in the area of a half million or something...I'm just trying to get a ballpark.

Yep the Western Empire has 500,000 "Imperial" troops. By contrast the forces of the local provinces number between 1000 to 5000, with generally up to 35% of those mercs.

There are a few notable merc units though -

1 - Hadregal's Horde has a 10,000 man force

2 - The Army of Schmalk has 1500 men, and at 35 years old, is the oldest merc unit within the entire Western Empire.


Way over in the Eastern Territory, the city of Llorn has it's own massive mercenary force and is the epoch of the mercenary trade in the Palladium world. They can hire out an entire "army" of 6400 men at a time and still have 1600 men in training at any given time. (They apparently have 13,000 to the cities standing army and 8000+ as mercs).



So overall, I'd say anywhere between 1000 to 5000 troops.

Aaryq wrote:
Essentially you have a wealthy knight completely devoted to his king, country and chivalry. The kingdom...{snip the King's sudden but inevitable betrayal}
...Betrayed by king and country, he gathers his officers and they decide "bullocks to the king, bullocks to the kingdom, we'll make a name for ourselves as mercenaries."

Dustin Fireblade wrote:So overall, I'd say anywhere between 1000 to 5000 troops.

In the situation Aaryq is proposing, I think there are questions which should be asked before we get to, 'How big could a mercenary force be?' I think the first of these is, 'How much can this Knight afford to pay upfront to sustain a force until it has an employer?' Even if he has the charisma, experience, and leadership ability to gather the force and have them shift their allegiance from the King's coffers to his, there are specific logistical realities which define a thin line between 'Mercenary Army' and 'Marauding Bandits.'

Additional questions might be:
From whom would he seek work?
How long a trip is it?
Will he take work from his former liege's enemies?
Does he intend to finance the whole operation from the spoils of war, still working in defence of the Kingdom?
Does he intend to finance things from plunder, as an ally to the enemy, or as a bandit?
For certain types of noble employers, he will be seen to be a knight who has forsaken his sworn duty to defend his lands, how would he overcome that stigma?

An interesting and challenging element to this campaign could be in actually building the force. It could have its beginnings in a very small, elite cadre of the Knight's closest companions. At the point the characters enter the story, the company needs to/has become able to expand somewhat. The characters are part of that expansion, working under one of the lieutenants of one of the Knight's lieutenants. They would have unlimited upward mobility, and the stories could balance task completion, offensive and defensive planning, as well as recruitment, and expansion.

All of that in addition to being able to take a look at the effect of this sort of employment on a fighting man, being a sell-sword, and having to be loyal to the source of one's coins would be a challenge for many who grew up on the ideas of nobility and service. Using the Knight as counter-point, and having bits of his tale, and the change the King's betrayal wrought upon him surface from time to time and from place to place in the original holdings, would provide nice symmetry: "Will I end up like him?"

Sounds like fun~

It started as the knight (father being a Count eq) and his closest friends (also nobles) and members of their families' small army. All-in-all they left town with 350 men. They grow as they gain popularity. After a really lean year, they get caught up in a civil war, playing both sides. That's where they gain fame and reputation. After the civil war, a marauding threat from the north (barbarians of all races) threaten the realm (canon be damned). The northern kingdoms form an uneasy alliance to confront the threat (and possibly secure some northern land rich in natural resource) and the great mercenary hiring begins. They get a lucritive contract to reinforce an army in a very dangerous area.

That pesky Northern part of the North... nothing but trouble - friggin' Barbarians... snow. Wipe it out, I say.

You say that you doubt you'll ever get the chance to play it?

Yeah, I just found 2 people that are into RPGs (after looking for a couple years), but htey seem more interested in D&D and Rifts. I don't see how I'll be able to run it any time soon.