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Years ago a friend and fellow gamer put this thought in my head, so I'm putting it up here in open forum for consideration;

In the event of a real-life apocalptic event, be it nuclear holocaust, global upheaval or whatever, the people that have the best chances for survival and prosperity afterward are most likely going to be ones with some form of military/survivalist training/experience and active gamers.

Any thoughts?

JuliusCreed wrote:Years ago a friend and fellow gamer put this thought in my head, so I'm putting it up here in open forum for consideration;

In the event of a real-life apocalptic event, be it nuclear holocaust, global upheaval or whatever, the people that have the best chances for survival and prosperity afterward are most likely going to be ones with some form of military/survivalist training/experience and active gamers.

Any thoughts?

Current and ex-military, amongst other types, YES.

Active Gamers, NO.

(Just reading a lot of cool stuff in a book, no matter how actually informative, isn't exactly going to translate into the Real Life Wilderness Survival Skill at 98%. Nor are most of us Gamers in very good shape, besides the relative handful who are into Hunting and/or Martial Arts and/or Weapons Training. Harsh but true.)

cornholioprime wrote:

JuliusCreed wrote:Years ago a friend and fellow gamer put this thought in my head, so I'm putting it up here in open forum for consideration;

In the event of a real-life apocalptic event, be it nuclear holocaust, global upheaval or whatever, the people that have the best chances for survival and prosperity afterward are most likely going to be ones with some form of military/survivalist training/experience and active gamers.

Any thoughts?

Current and ex-military, amongst other types, YES.

Active Gamers, NO.

(Just reading a lot of cool stuff in a book, no matter how actually informative, isn't exactly going to translate into the Real Life Wilderness Survival Skill at 98%. Nor are most of us Gamers in very good shape, besides the relative handful who are into Hunting and/or Martial Arts and/or Weapons Training. Harsh but true.)

Fair enough. But as a side question, how many gamers out there have actual military experience? Or Martial Arts training or hunting experience, etc.? Personally, 7 years US Army Infantry. But it's my experiences at gaming that I believe make me a bit better prepared. The military experience I have is of great use, yes, but it is augmented by my "gamer's instinct", if you will, at making snap decisions on the fly.
I guess a better way of posing this question is "How has gaming affected your overall abilities in a survivalist situation?"

I don't think being a gamer has a direct correlation to your survival talents. I do think the reverse is true (those able to make snap choices, think quickly and creatively tend to be gamers, or at least, better gamers).

For the first question of the second post (Well, second by OP), from my experience about 50%. About half of all my groups have either Served in the US Armed forces (Psyched that a friend just got done as a Machine Gunner), or have a very strong interest in survivalism, martial arts, or some similar activity as a hobby (for example, a former gamer friend has an extensive history of small sailing vessels at sea). The rest are on the list of "First to go".

Dude, if you really think a bunch of fat nerds are gonna be the most likely to survive the holocaust you're sadly deluded.

Most gamers who survive the initial cataclysm will be found decomposing outside the nearest Dunkin' Donuts with their bloated faces still pressed up against the window.

Perhaps in a tattered wizard costume.

JuliusCreed wrote:Years ago a friend and fellow gamer put this thought in my head, so I'm putting it up here in open forum for consideration;

In the event of a real-life apocalptic event, be it nuclear holocaust, global upheaval or whatever, the people that have the best chances for survival and prosperity afterward are most likely going to be ones with some form of military/survivalist training/experience and active gamers.

Any thoughts?

Well my first thought is, why is this post in the PFRPG section?

it will not matter the training or skills one has. while those will by far make a world of difference in a post holocaust, those who survive the initial cause have the one major objective to over come. the desire to quit when everything they had and love is gone. no friends or family. it will be those who can over come this grief and emotional set back that have the greatest chance to survive.

I would probably have one of the lower chances to survive as I have two young children and no ability to abandon them. If something did happen to them, I'd be devestated, but frankly I don't think it would diminish my desire to continue. So having a not quite 1 year old and an almost 3 year old (and a wife) would sap my resources a lot trying to survive.

Alone I don't know that I would have huge issues with the following caveats

1) The human element (other humans)
2) Fallout/toxins/etc

If basically all sources of water are contaminated with toxins and/or fallout, not much can be done about that. Other people also enter in with looters/bad people/etc being big question marks.

No military experience, other than lots of theory (and I don't mean playing RPG games, I mean field manuals, theory and practice books, etc, etc, a lot of the stuff you'd be studying up on in OCS, ROTC or one of the academies). Not that I think it qualifies me as a general, or better yet a sgt., but better than nothing.

Tons of survival experience though. I do lots, and lots of backpacking and through hiking. Lots of gear, lots of time spent in the wilderness. Some limited hunting experience.
-Matt

PS Oh and 6'1" 175lbs, pretty much none of it fat. So I think I have the physical fitness part down.

For the record...I have read several survival guides. They are all full of it! Let me tell you guys something. It's those with land and heirloom seed stocked up to grow food and the means and the conning to defend it have a far better chance at surviving.

I am originally from Del Rio, TN. I know how to garden, raise animals, hunt, etc. I have skills with most non-automatic handguns, shotguns, and rifles, but I favor the bow for hunting. I am trained in martial arts, I favor the bo staff and swords; but can use a wide variety of martial art weapons. I am also quite good with a whip. I can fish. I know how to make gun powder, arrows, etc. IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT! I know how to can, use herbs, use and make essential oils, make ethanol for fuel and the cleaning of wounds, make brandy for cough syrup and drinking, use honey and beeswax for treating wounds; heck there are bee hives at the farm I grew up on. As if you don't know from reading this my profession is alternative medicine...reflexologist, but I do reiki and other energy forms as well.

I hope to in the next 2 years build a cabin with solar and a micro hydro-electric generators...Hooked up not to batteries but to the grid. I can function with or without power, but why bother if you don't have to.

The difficult thing in the event of a global catastrophe will be getting cinnamon, nutmeg, clove, etc. And once I identified myself as a naturopath I would have to treat diabetics, strep throat, toothaches, snake bites, etc in with what is at hand, and those would be the first things to go.

Gaming has made me think about things and more or less consider options that I didn't think about before. Example: A group of 6 individuals show up on the farm with brandishing automatic guns, smelling like they haven't had a bath in years. Think about it for a moment, what would you do or say to them? Well, the first thing I would say is: "You gentlemen look like you are tired and in need of a bath and a good meal that you didn't have to still or kill over, huh? The hot tub is out back, please shower off out there before hand. I have plenty of soap out there and peppermint shampoo for any bugs you're carrying, I also have some clothes that might fit a couple of you, while yours is washed." Then when they are done bathing, ask where their from, where their going. Then say, "Listen, winter is almost here...We've just bagged a few deers and slaughtered a hog. We have more than enough food to go around. So you're more then welcomed to stay for awhile, as long as you don't mind working in return. The barn has a good sized loft with a wood heater and attic fans. By the way, I can treat wounds if you have any. Any of you are free to go at anytime with some jerky and some dried fruits and canned good." Treat them good and show them another way to do stuff. How to plant, hunt, fish, cook, build, repair, etc. They might join you full time or at least join together to defend you when you need them.

azazel1024 wrote:I would probably have one of the lower chances to survive as I have two young children and no ability to abandon them. If something did happen to them, I'd be devestated, but frankly I don't think it would diminish my desire to continue. So having a not quite 1 year old and an almost 3 year old (and a wife) would sap my resources a lot trying to survive.

Alone I don't know that I would have huge issues with the following caveats

1) The human element (other humans)
2) Fallout/toxins/etc

If basically all sources of water are contaminated with toxins and/or fallout, not much can be done about that. Other people also enter in with looters/bad people/etc being big question marks.

No military experience, other than lots of theory (and I don't mean playing RPG games, I mean field manuals, theory and practice books, etc, etc, a lot of the stuff you'd be studying up on in OCS, ROTC or one of the academies). Not that I think it qualifies me as a general, or better yet a sgt., but better than nothing.

Tons of survival experience though. I do lots, and lots of backpacking and through hiking. Lots of gear, lots of time spent in the wilderness. Some limited hunting experience.
-Matt

PS Oh and 6'1" 175lbs, pretty much none of it fat. So I think I have the physical fitness part down.

Not necessarily...They give you a lot more reason to survive in a post apocalyptic world.

I don't disagree, but it would be two people using up resources without being able to materially contributed to survival...and an adult who would have to use most of her resources to watch and take care of the children, reducing the inputs to survival there.

I love my kids, but in the cold hard math of it, it would strain resources without contributing significantly until they were older.

That isn't to say I'd be going "Too bad so sad"...I am a father and husband and I'd do anything I could to keep them in health and hapiness.

PS One thing people always seem to forget in suburban and urban settings for water resources is...hot water heaters. They hold anything from about 30-80 gallons of freshwater, are generally lined with glass, etc. So you have a source of freshwater you can tap anywhere you can find a residence and its likely not going to go bad for several years. Just open the drain valve and fill up your water containers.
-Matt

Yup, minimum water for drinking and cooking is about 1 gallon per person per day. 30 gallon water heater is a full month of water. In my townhouse community if things went to pot, just on my court, there is enough freshwater in everyone's hot water heaters for my family to easily go a couple of years without needing to find a source of fresh water or waste time and fuel boiling water.

Use grey water (a stream about 80 yards from my house) for washing clothes, yourself and gardening.

Of course if things went to pot I wouldn't stick around home in the middle of the burbs.
-Matt

Well I think once the kids over come the loss of toys and modern convinces they will be able to actually help. they do in asia, go to school and help in the fields. so if you are willing to give them more responsiblity i think they stand a better chance to survive then most adults. they are remarkably resilant and can adapt easier then aduts. also i think if you have someone with you, it will give you a better chance to survive as it always gives you someone to watch your back.

the miltary books and manuals are great to read, but you should practice the skills so you know the practical aspects of the books. what looks good on paper may not work in practice.

Martial arts and other fighting skills are great, and do give you an edge, being skilled with more then guns is smart. but no matter how good you are there is someone out there who is gonna get the lucky shot, or punch or is simply better.

I do have an alternative to the inviting the stinky strangers into your farm. yea they could stay on and help. But it could go like this just as easy; gee mister thats mighty kind of ya, but me and the boys here are thinking we will just kill you and take this for ourselves.

as for the seeds and farming skills i think that is great and if you have enough to keep a functioning farm going thats great. however what if the disater was super volcanic eruption, diminishing 1/4 of of the worlds sun and causing longer winters and colder climates? green houses will only carry you so far.


the reality is this, even if your prepared your never fully prepared - the road.

Lt Gargoyle wrote:Well I think once the kids over come the loss of toys and modern convinces they will be able to actually help. they do in asia, go to school and help in the fields. so if you are willing to give them more responsiblity i think they stand a better chance to survive then most adults. they are remarkably resilant and can adapt easier then aduts. also i think if you have someone with you, it will give you a better chance to survive as it always gives you someone to watch your back.

the miltary books and manuals are great to read, but you should practice the skills so you know the practical aspects of the books. what looks good on paper may not work in practice.

Martial arts and other fighting skills are great, and do give you an edge, being skilled with more then guns is smart. but no matter how good you are there is someone out there who is gonna get the lucky shot, or punch or is simply better.

I do have an alternative to the inviting the stinky strangers into your farm. yea they could stay on and help. But it could go like this just as easy; gee mister thats mighty kind of ya, but me and the boys here are thinking we will just kill you and take this for ourselves.

as for the seeds and farming skills i think that is great and if you have enough to keep a functioning farm going thats great. however what if the disater was super volcanic eruption, diminishing 1/4 of of the worlds sun and causing longer winters and colder climates? green houses will only carry you so far.

the reality is this, even if your prepared your never fully prepared - the road.

I agree completely with everything you just said. There are always those chances. I know that no matter how prepared you are you are never going to be prepared for everything. And if a super volcano does erupt, it will make the earth fertile. Volcanic ash when mixed into the top soil makes it unimaginably fertile.

Oh, and while I might be appear to be trusting, I am not a fool. I would have back up hiding somewhere out of sight. And if it was like you said, with the five strangers. I would give the signal, and hope my hunting buds (provided some of them made it though the plague, wave, weather, meteor shower, pole shift, or whatever) with high powered hunting rifles will deal with them. And we would then probably cremate the bodies in accordance with our customs...probably along with the bones of the deers and hogs. It is to keep predators and pollution down.

pblackcrow wrote:

Lt Gargoyle wrote:Well I think once the kids over come the loss of toys and modern convinces they will be able to actually help. they do in asia, go to school and help in the fields. so if you are willing to give them more responsiblity i think they stand a better chance to survive then most adults. they are remarkably resilant and can adapt easier then aduts. also i think if you have someone with you, it will give you a better chance to survive as it always gives you someone to watch your back.

the miltary books and manuals are great to read, but you should practice the skills so you know the practical aspects of the books. what looks good on paper may not work in practice.

Martial arts and other fighting skills are great, and do give you an edge, being skilled with more then guns is smart. but no matter how good you are there is someone out there who is gonna get the lucky shot, or punch or is simply better.

I do have an alternative to the inviting the stinky strangers into your farm. yea they could stay on and help. But it could go like this just as easy; gee mister thats mighty kind of ya, but me and the boys here are thinking we will just kill you and take this for ourselves.

as for the seeds and farming skills i think that is great and if you have enough to keep a functioning farm going thats great. however what if the disater was super volcanic eruption, diminishing 1/4 of of the worlds sun and causing longer winters and colder climates? green houses will only carry you so far.

the reality is this, even if your prepared your never fully prepared - the road.

I agree completely with everything you just said. There are always those chances. I know that no matter how prepared you are you are never going to be prepared for everything. And if a super volcano does erupt, it will make the earth fertile. Volcanic ash when mixed into the top soil makes it unimaginably fertile.

Oh, and while I might be appear to be trusting, I am not a fool. I would have back up hiding somewhere out of sight. And if it was like you said, with the five strangers. I would give the signal, and hope my hunting buds (provided some of them made it though the plague, wave, weather, meteor shower, pole shift, or whatever) with high powered hunting rifles will deal with them. And we would then probably cremate the bodies in accordance with our customs...probably along with the bones of the deers and hogs. It is to keep predators and pollution down.

Not to mention disease control

Well, that sorta goes with pollution. But yeah.

all the guys with guns will be too busy playing tough-guy apocalyptic GI Joe to notice me looting their ****.

in all seriousness, i believe it will be the ones who are the most clever, imaginative, and driven who will survive. just like in the real world.

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:i believe it will be the ones who are the most clever, imaginative, and driven who will survive. just like in the real world.

I fully agree.

I imagine once the earth has corrected the situation, i believe humanity will thrive way better then it does now. I am also a believer that most humans are greedy and will seek the easy way.
I hope to be proven wrong if something ever really happens. but since i am a survivalist and discuss things with my friends to help them be prepared. most have guns, and basic camping gear. but few of them could survive more then two weeks before they run into trouble.

If you are one of those guys thinking of running to them mountains where you can fish and hunt i think you will be in for a big surprise when you find everyone else there too.

@pblackcrow - i have no doubt you are better prepared, you seem like you have thought this out too. and if you have a those seed and the basic farm equipment you will be good, I am also sure your approch will get you some good workers and maybe be able to rebuild a small community around your farm. i just lack faith in people in global deasters. not regional like we have seen so far.

Lt Gargoyle wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:i believe it will be the ones who are the most clever, imaginative, and driven who will survive. just like in the real world.

I fully agree.

I imagine once the earth has corrected the situation, i believe humanity will thrive way better then it does now. I am also a believer that most humans are greedy and will seek the easy way.
I hope to be proven wrong if something ever really happens. but since i am a survivalist and discuss things with my friends to help them be prepared. most have guns, and basic camping gear. but few of them could survive more then two weeks before they run into trouble.

If you are one of those guys thinking of running to them mountains where you can fish and hunt i think you will be in for a big surprise when you find everyone else there too.

@pblackcrow - i have no doubt you are better prepared, you seem like you have thought this out too. and if you have a those seed and the basic farm equipment you will be good, I am also sure your approch will get you some good workers and maybe be able to rebuild a small community around your farm. i just lack faith in people in global deasters. not regional like we have seen so far.

Also something to remember is that people get stupid and panicy in emergencies, and make snap decisions and judgments that they wouldn't normally make. Look at how many people committed suicide after 9/11 when their safety was suddenly shaken. Or when Orson Wells did his broadcast of War of the Worlds. News flash, you had no real safety to begin with, while now we have what we needed to have in the first place...though frankly not to the level of stupidity that it's gotten. I couldn't have an unopened packet of ginger tea or catnip tea bag, or ever take a beverage onto a plane that I was clearly drinking at that time. A plastic bottle of sarsaparilla. But I could take a rather large cane with a brass cobra head, no questions asked. I had twisted my ankle at beach.

Things to remember though. My cabin is not built yet, and the land I am looking at for my uh cabin/lodge isn't officially mine YET!!! 30 acres: 10 of it is fruit and nut trees, 4.25? are for berries; grapes; and vine fruit, 4.25? are for animal, 10 for agriculture, the rest is more or less yard space. The house that was there burnt down last year, and the old man died the year before. We are waiting on the 2 heirs to give us a price. But getting them together has NOT BEEN EASY! Big fight! One is here, the other is in Australia, neither one has controlling interest but together they do. So, life has sorta been crazy!

pblackcrow wrote:Also something to remember is that people get stupid and panicy in emergencies, and make snap decisions and judgments that they wouldn't normally make. Look at how many people committed suicide after 9/11 when their safety was suddenly shaken. Or when Orson Wells did his broadcast of War of the Worlds. News flash, you had no real safety to begin with, while now we have what we needed to have in the first place...though frankly not to the level of stupidity that it's gotten. I couldn't have an unopened packet of ginger tea or catnip tea bag, or ever take a beverage onto a plane that I was clearly drinking at that time. A plastic bottle of sarsaparilla. But I could take a rather large cane with a brass cobra head, no questions asked. I had twisted my ankle at beach.

Things to remember though. My cabin is not built yet, and the land I am looking at for my uh cabin/lodge isn't officially mine YET!!! 30 acres: 10 of it is fruit and nut trees, 4.25? are for berries; grapes; and vine fruit, 4.25? are for animal, 10 for agriculture, the rest is more or less yard space. The house that was there burnt down last year, and the old man died the year before. We are waiting on the 2 heirs to give us a price. But getting them together has NOT BEEN EASY! Big fight! One is here, the other is in Australia, neither one has controlling interest but together they do. So, life has sorta been crazy!

I do remember reading about the war of the worlds broadcast laughing in history class when we got to the part of them commiting suicide. i am glad i did not hear about those who did it on 9/11 because i would have felt no different. you are correct with the amount of stupidity in the world.


http://www.lindsaybks.com/

this is a link to lindsays technical books you might enjoy reading before you start building your cabin. we use some of the forges and machine shop in my boss's black smithing shop. very cool stuff and reasonable prices. the first catalog is free.
I have a cool book called living on 5 acre and independance (i think thats the full title) it discusses how to live a good life on 5 acres of land. teaching how to gather and transplant plant life. its worth the money. I'll double check after i get it back from my friend who is currently reading it. Like everything you have to practice the skills. but worth the read.

I may have my military training and experience to fall back on and all the things I've learned in my life but it guarentees me nothing.
I call it ******** when anyone says who and what they know makes them more likely to survive.
You don't know and all these so called experts don't know theres too many things to consider to calculate the chances for anyone person.

The military showed and duty in dismal conditions proved to me you need a team of people with variable skills to give any reasonable chances of survival and prosperity.
One person insisting he has good chances with what he knows and has is most likely the one talking out his ass.
I'll be taking it one day at a time trying to survive and trying to help others proving themself worthy of my help to survive.
My chances I have no idea but i do know it would be pretty bad by myself, but with others they will get better and better, even if it is just with a woman and two small kids, or some slurpy sucking fat body.
I know what skills i could bring to the table but i don't have enough to do it on my own, nobody does thats a simple fact.
I have no delusions of my chances, I need a team to survive and prosper.

Gamer wrote:I may have my military training and experience to fall back on and all the things I've learned in my life but it guarentees me nothing.
I call it ******** when anyone says who and what they know makes them more likely to survive.
You don't know and all these so called experts don't know theres too many things to consider to calculate the chances for anyone person.

The military showed and duty in dismal conditions proved to me you need a team of people with variable skills to give any reasonable chances of survival and prosperity.
One person insisting he has good chances with what he knows and has is most likely the one talking out his ass.
I'll be taking it one day at a time trying to survive and trying to help others proving themself worthy of my help to survive.
My chances I have no idea but i do know it would be pretty bad by myself, but with others they will get better and better, even if it is just with a woman and two small kids, or some slurpy sucking fat body.
I know what skills i could bring to the table but i don't have enough to do it on my own, nobody does thats a simple fact.
I have no delusions of my chances, I need a team to survive and prosper.

I would agree that a group is better then an individual any day. However if you have training and skills it will give you an edge. i think you with your military training has alot of advantages over many others including myself. Just because i have training and other skills does not mean i will survive. but it does give me the better odds then if i did not.
But i think having a group will indeed increase your odd and productivity. but then do you get your group togeather before the desater and train as a group? or are you gonna wait and pick up strangers?

@Lt Gargoyle: I have plenty of practice still. And thank you for the web site.

@Gamer: Very true! The skills I have are absolutely no guarantee that I would survive in a post apocalyptic world. There are too many variables to calculate. And yes, I would need a team as well. I can name several people who I would like to have with me, we are all just a close nit group of friends.

pblackcrow wrote:@Lt Gargoyle: I have plenty of practice still. And thank you for the web site.

@Gamer: Very true! The skills I have are absolutely no guarantee that I would survive in a post apocalyptic world. There are too many variables to calculate. And yes, I would need a team as well. I can name several people who I would like to have with me, we are all just a close nit group of friends.

And in keeping with the thread, how many of these "close nit group of friends" are fellow gamers?

@ pblackcrow, you are welcome. hope you get some use out of their site.

I have 3 of my close friends in my gaming groups who I discuss, plan and train in stuff with. And if stuff should ever go from hypothetical to real life, I hope they are beside me.
most of them have a wife and several of us have children and i know if someting happen to me that I could count on them to keep my children safe and educate them so that they to could have more then just a chance to survive.

JuliusCreed wrote:

pblackcrow wrote:@Lt Gargoyle: I have plenty of practice still. And thank you for the web site.

@Gamer: Very true! The skills I have are absolutely no guarantee that I would survive in a post apocalyptic world. There are too many variables to calculate. And yes, I would need a team as well. I can name several people who I would like to have with me, we are all just a close nit group of friends.

And in keeping with the thread, how many of these "close nit group of friends" are fellow gamers?

3, out of 12

I stand corrected...Just found out 2 more of them used to play Vampire: the Masquerade. So 5 out of 12.

One thing to think on is if a super volcano, like Yellowstone exploded just how many other volcanoes would blow too. Directly or indirectly as a result of Yellowstone. With the toxic ash food/water/guns might be useless if we can't breath.

Another thing to think on is how far are you, the real you not a character, willing to go to survive? Could you really kill someone? Really steal someones food/water? Really abandon someone, weather you liked them or not, to save yourself? The reality is being prepared to survive a disaster/end of the world is good, and personally I try to always have enough supplies in my home for myself & family to survive at least 30 days including 2 guns and lots of ammo. But when it comes down to it could you REALLY do it, if you had to.

bigwhitehound wrote:One thing to think on is if a super volcano, like Yellowstone exploded just how many other volcanoes would blow too. Directly or indirectly as a result of Yellowstone. With the toxic ash food/water/guns might be useless if we can't breath.

Another thing to think on is how far are you, the real you not a character, willing to go to survive? Could you really kill someone? Really steal someones food/water? Really abandon someone, weather you liked them or not, to save yourself? The reality is being prepared to survive a disaster/end of the world is good, and personally I try to always have enough supplies in my home for myself & family to survive at least 30 days including 2 guns and lots of ammo. But when it comes down to it could you REALLY do it, if you had to.

I don't know, until I actually do it...I am going to be honest. In self defense or defense of a loved one, yes, I could kill (but would I?...Is a whole other matter.)...but just outright kill, no. I couldn't. Steal food, well, hopefully I will never have to find out. Abandon someone, that is the question that I would have the most trouble with doing. Could I? I don't know.

I feel like I have to chim in..... By once self no one has a good chance I dont care about what you know or how fast you can think. now in the right group a number of gamers would be an asset and I have to say alot of role players I know where also SCA martel artests or milatary or ex milatary. the advantges that a gamer would bring to a group or in the arrereas of absucre knowlaing (why teachers and outher nurds are useful) and many have a good grasp of small unit tactices. as well the ablaty to think and react quickly to the setuation.