Forums of the Megaverse®

Well,

I can actually say that I'm glad this particular design died stillborn before it was animated in The Shadow Chronicles cause, well, transforming spaceships are STUPID!

Transforming Ark Angel Colony Fortress



Sorry, but for the moment, this image has been redacted. Will update if and when I hear something,

I'd need to see more on the designs. In that shot, all we get is the Ship mode and a back-shot of the Standing mode. It needs a Transformation sequence storyboard & a forward-view.

For a colony ship I'd favor a limited modular transformation that would allow the ship to reconfigure itself into, say, a space station core-unit or floating city to best suit the needs and environment of the colony.

RU kidding, that is sweeeet! All sorts off campy-cheezy goodness all around. SDF-1 on steroids man...

i think its awsome, but i think I am in favor of a colony ship being more limited to being a core of a new city for the colony. i think taalismn hit this concept right on.

but i still see it as a great picture and would like to see more of the transformation and front view as well.

Blech. No thanks. Stupid transforming spaceships are stupid. They break the suspension of disbelief in my opinion.

its anime. though i understand your point Rabid southern cross fan. it is not a realistic, and more then likely not ever work.

When i say it should transform into the core of a colony city, its more like the ships outer hull is removed around the city and used to be used for new city structures. leaving the engines for the city's new power plant.

Interesting...but I have to go with RSCF on this one.....the whole object of the SDF-1 Transformation was to make the connection between the engines and the main gun so it would fire....everything after that just seems a little silly.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:Blech. No thanks. Stupid transforming spaceships are stupid. They break the suspension of disbelief in my opinion.

Wouldn't you have to evacuate certain areas of the ship in order to transform? God forbid you were to land in a place of high gravity.

I like the vomiting smiley guy at the bottom of your last message!
G

I rather have to agree, one of the things that keeps bothering me about the Macross follow-ups are all the fortresses HAVE to be transformable. They rather seem to be missing their own message in the original Macross.

Still, it does look rather funky.

-POUNCER

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:Well,

I can actually say that I'm glad this particular design died stillborn before it was animated in The Shadow Chronicles cause, well, transforming spaceships are STUPID!

Transforming Ark Angel Colony Fortress

You do realize the more you hate on one of Tommy's designs the more likely he is to use it in a future production such as say a sequel to Shadow Chronicles

Actually, while I don't like the colony ship in vessel mode its attack mode is interesting (at least what can be seen of it). Besides I think the transforming SDF designs are too closely associated with the Macross sequels, and really don't fit with the later chapters of Robotech.

Heh, that's awesome.

I don;t see it as being all THAT bad RSCF.....it;s kinda neat really.

rtsurfer wrote:You do realize the more you hate on one of Tommy's designs the more likely he is to use it in a future production such as say a sequel to Shadow Chronicles

Heh, I actually liked the Hurricane/Silverback design. I just think anyone who says its got parts commonality with the MOSPEADA Cyclone-series needs their head examined. Maybe commonality with the MODAT Cyclone series, but not the smaller MOSPEADA's.

Really...it looks like a giant backpack hiker with big boots..

Emperor Ryu wrote:

taalismn wrote:Really...it looks like a giant backpack hiker with big boots..

It sure can take you places, that's for sure.

Can we get one from L.L. Bean?

I have to agree, not a huge fan of transforming spaceships. There is not a huge need for a battloid form in spaceship to spaceship combat.

I thought it was a pretty neat concept though probably only practical for landing purposes if there's not enough area for the traditional dimensions of the ship. Could also be a cool planet bound artillery position.

Grell wrote:I thought it was a pretty neat concept though probably only practical for landing purposes if there's not enough area for the traditional dimensions of the ship. Could also be a cool planet bound artillery position.

If there's not enough landing area, in that case, don't take the big ship down! That planet must have the most screwed up geography if you can't find enough space to land a ship in its standard mode. You gotta pick people or material up, use the shuttles! Designer must be REALLY paranoid(or on some serious drugs) if they plan a multi-billion dollar colony ship around a farfetched scenario that would require such a landing configuration! "Well, the fuel pumps are at the bottom of a canyon/trench that only a giant humanoid configuration starship can reach...that, and it allows the refueling station attendant to reach right over from his office window on the 121st floor directly to the starship's bridge to collect the refueling fee."

The SDF1 had a purpose in its transformation........we don't need every spaceship made to be able to transform.........this is Robotech......NOT TRANSFORMERS!!!!

Snake Eyes wrote:The SDF1 had a purpose in its transformation........we don't need every spaceship made to be able to transform.........this is Robotech......NOT TRANSFORMERS!!!!

Yeah, but wouldn't Optimus have been that much more awesome if he'd punched Megatron in the face with an AIRCRAFT CARRIER?!

I love it man!!!!!

josephddm wrote:

Emperor Ryu wrote:

josephddm wrote:the Macross Cannons from Macross II, ships half the size of the SDF-1

Actually, this was one of the huge mistakes in the Macross II Deck Plans. On a technicality, in tactical, physics-wise, in the anime screenshot provided in the book, and the anime itself, the Macross Cannon is way much larger than the Macross/SDF1.

WHAT?!!!!!!!. I never mind that, but if the mecha complement is a horrible one even for a ship intended as a combat station/cannon ship only. Are you trying to say that the weapon arms/booms are in effective two Zentran spaceships attached to the Macross Cannon ships?. If this came true the Macross Cannons could size 2 miles long per three hundred yards or more wide and those weapon arms were a sort of Zentran gunner ships/heavy recon and front line combat sizing 3/4 a mile long.Hum maybe i must work on that for my Macross II setting...

That is precisely what the ships are supposed to be. 4 Macross (Movie class) flagships with heavy particle cannons.

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macross2/macrosscannon.htm

The Macross transformation was a masterstroke of verisimilitude. Yes, transforming spaceship is by itself silly, but SDF:Macross brought it home and broke it down, justifying it so that it wasn't just plausible but wonderful. It all came together.

A transforming ship for no reason other than to have a transforming ship basically <hyperbole>takes that achievement, puches it in the gut, pushes it down, then kicks sand into its face</hyperbole>. It takes what SDF:Macross did and turns it right back into what SDF:Macross went to such huge lengths to completely thwart.

Um, a ship with artificial gravity and anti-gravity engines can turn in any direction to point at whatever it wants; it doesn't have to transform to do any of that. If it needs to be vertical to land? No problem, because the a-grav keeps what's in the ship just fine while it does so. The fact is, spurious justifications for transforming ships don't cut the mustard exactly because the original did it so well and so thoroughly; in comparison, the SDF:Macross shows how lame those justifications are because it did it right the first time.

Sgt Anjay wrote:The Macross transformation was a masterstroke of verisimilitude. Yes, transforming spaceship is by itself silly, but SDF:Macross brought it home and broke it down, justifying it so that it wasn't just plausible but wonderful. It all came together.

A transforming ship for no reason other than to have a transforming ship basically <hyperbole>takes that achievement, puches it in the gut, pushes it down, then kicks sand into its face</hyperbole>. It takes what SDF:Macross did and turns it right back into what SDF:Macross went to such huge lengths to completely thwart.

Um, a ship with artificial gravity and anti-gravity engines can turn in any direction to point at whatever it wants; it doesn't have to transform to do any of that. If it needs to be vertical to land? No problem, because the a-grav keeps what's in the ship just fine while it does so. The fact is, spurious justifications for transforming ships don't cut the mustard exactly because the original did it so well and so thoroughly; in comparison, the SDF:Macross shows how lame those justifications are because it did it right the first time.

Sgt Anjay wrote:The Macross transformation was a masterstroke of verisimilitude. Yes, transforming spaceship is by itself silly, but SDF:Macross brought it home and broke it down, justifying it so that it wasn't just plausible but wonderful. It all came together.

A transforming ship for no reason other than to have a transforming ship basically <hyperbole>takes that achievement, puches it in the gut, pushes it down, then kicks sand into its face</hyperbole>. It takes what SDF:Macross did and turns it right back into what SDF:Macross went to such huge lengths to completely thwart.

Um, a ship with artificial gravity and anti-gravity engines can turn in any direction to point at whatever it wants; it doesn't have to transform to do any of that. If it needs to be vertical to land? No problem, because the a-grav keeps what's in the ship just fine while it does so. The fact is, spurious justifications for transforming ships don't cut the mustard exactly because the original did it so well and so thoroughly; in comparison, the SDF:Macross shows how lame those justifications are because it did it right the first time.

Really wishing this forum had a "Like" button so i can like this soo much.

Colonel Wolfe wrote:

Sgt Anjay wrote:The Macross transformation was a masterstroke of verisimilitude. Yes, transforming spaceship is by itself silly, but SDF:Macross brought it home and broke it down, justifying it so that it wasn't just plausible but wonderful. It all came together.

A transforming ship for no reason other than to have a transforming ship basically <hyperbole>takes that achievement, puches it in the gut, pushes it down, then kicks sand into its face</hyperbole>. It takes what SDF:Macross did and turns it right back into what SDF:Macross went to such huge lengths to completely thwart.

Um, a ship with artificial gravity and anti-gravity engines can turn in any direction to point at whatever it wants; it doesn't have to transform to do any of that. If it needs to be vertical to land? No problem, because the a-grav keeps what's in the ship just fine while it does so. The fact is, spurious justifications for transforming ships don't cut the mustard exactly because the original did it so well and so thoroughly; in comparison, the SDF:Macross shows how lame those justifications are because it did it right the first time.

Really wishing this forum had a "Like" button so i can like this soo much.

I second that.
How big do you think the Rotating Colony's are? I mean, if they are full colonies, then at least a mile across for each one. That would make the ship at least 3 miles wide, 1 1/2 mile deep, and over 10 miles long. That would make it the largest ship in Robotech. Also anybody else notice that it has hands under the forearm cannons?

rem1093 wrote:Also anybody else notice that it has hands under the forearm cannons?

[sarcasm]Its so rad the Ark Angel can totally go hand-to-hand with another spaceship. It probably has a giant battle knife it can use as a last resort weapon.[/sarcasm]

I have nothing against transforming space ships if they are used right in the context of the story (ie the SDF-1's needed and dramatic reconfiguration). Strictly speaking, the main purpose of the transformation sequence in a cartoon is really about visual impact and cool factor.

To be honest, I don't find this ship's reconfiguration particularly impressive. I am also unsure of how it fit into the story.

So while not tossing out the concept of a transforming star-ship (or fighter, or tank or motorcycle or dune buggy for that matter) altogether, I do think there is some room for improvement.

Jefffar wrote:I have nothing against transforming space ships if they are used right in the context of the story (ie the SDF-1's needed and dramatic reconfiguration). Strictly speaking, the main purpose of the transformation sequence in a cartoon is really about visual impact and cool factor.

To be honest, I don't find this ship's reconfiguration particularly impressive. I am also unsure of how it fit into the story.

So while not tossing out the concept of a transforming star-ship (or fighter, or tank or motorcycle or dune buggy for that matter) altogether, I do think there is some room for improvement.

Can't disagree with you there Jeffar. Having seen Macross 7 and Macross Frontier, in both shows the transforming ships were abundantly to me that they were transforming just to say wow the ships transform. While I watched I could only think, why in gods name woudl they do that?

rem1093 wrote:

Colonel Wolfe wrote:

Sgt Anjay wrote:The Macross transformation was a masterstroke of verisimilitude. Yes, transforming spaceship is by itself silly, but SDF:Macross brought it home and broke it down, justifying it so that it wasn't just plausible but wonderful. It all came together.

A transforming ship for no reason other than to have a transforming ship basically <hyperbole>takes that achievement, puches it in the gut, pushes it down, then kicks sand into its face</hyperbole>. It takes what SDF:Macross did and turns it right back into what SDF:Macross went to such huge lengths to completely thwart.

Um, a ship with artificial gravity and anti-gravity engines can turn in any direction to point at whatever it wants; it doesn't have to transform to do any of that. If it needs to be vertical to land? No problem, because the a-grav keeps what's in the ship just fine while it does so. The fact is, spurious justifications for transforming ships don't cut the mustard exactly because the original did it so well and so thoroughly; in comparison, the SDF:Macross shows how lame those justifications are because it did it right the first time.

Really wishing this forum had a "Like" button so i can like this soo much.

I second that.
How big do you think the Rotating Colony's are? I mean, if they are full colonies, then at least a mile across for each one. That would make the ship at least 3 miles wide, 1 1/2 mile deep, and over 10 miles long. That would make it the largest ship in Robotech. Also anybody else notice that it has hands under the forearm cannons?

Robotech.com has it in their scale reference section now and it is pretty huge. It is nearly twice the size of the Izumo

rem1093 wrote: Also anybody else notice that it has hands under the forearm cannons?

"Before we blow the Hyadonites away, flip them the finger first, just for style points."

ya know, no matter how much i bother the Dev's on Eve, they won't add transforming ships and hand to hand to the game...

taalismn wrote:"Before the Hyadonites blow us away, flip them the finger as a final act of defiance."

FTFY.

Just realized from looking at the picture...the 'arms' have cannons in them as well.

Capt: "OK, Leutenant, engage 'Defiant' mode.
Lt. : "Aye Captain." *reaches into tunic & pulls out a purple-shaded data-key.*
(POV switches to the panel the Lt. is stationed at. A hidden panel slides away, revealing a data-port for the key. The Lt. slots the key. The key starts to strobe.)
Lt.: "Mode initiated, sir"
(POV: SHIP IN BATTLOID MODE, EXTERIOR. The right-arm of the ship extends as if in a slow punching motion, & stops at full extension. The forearm section rotates 180 degrees, completely upside-down. It stops, and several hatches flip over on the now-underside, the sequence now revealed to be a 4-fingered humanoid fist. A hatch slides back, & a large missile rises into position seemingly to fire. However, it stops at full extension, and a glint of sunlight skews off the nose-cone [w/ appropriate SPFX].)
(POV: BRIDGE, HAYDONITE SHIP. The two observing Haydonites take a few seconds to observe what just happened. Each looks back at the other in a 'what-the-Haydon-was-that?' move.)

NOTE: the BRITISH VERSION of the above has two missiles rise, then move away from each other in a 'V' shape at the end of the maneuver.

Hope you like.

It's the Flying Fickle Finger of Fate!

taalismn wrote:

rem1093 wrote: Also anybody else notice that it has hands under the forearm cannons?

"Before we blow the Hyadonites away, flip them the finger first, just for style points."

I thought it was supposed to give the Victory sign

WildWalker wrote:

BookWyrm wrote:Capt: "OK, Leutenant, engage 'Defiant' mode.
Lt. : "Aye Captain." *reaches into tunic & pulls out a purple-shaded data-key.*
(POV switches to the panel the Lt. is stationed at. A hidden panel slides away, revealing a data-port for the key. The Lt. slots the key. The key starts to strobe.)
Lt.: "Mode initiated, sir"
(POV: SHIP IN BATTLOID MODE, EXTERIOR. The right-arm of the ship extends as if in a slow punching motion, & stops at full extension. The forearm section rotates 180 degrees, completely upside-down. It stops, and several hatches flip over on the now-underside, the sequence now revealed to be a 4-fingered humanoid fist. A hatch slides back, & a large missile rises into position seemingly to fire. However, it stops at full extension, and a glint of sunlight skews off the nose-cone [w/ appropriate SPFX].)
(POV: BRIDGE, HAYDONITE SHIP. The two observing Haydonites take a few seconds to observe what just happened. Each looks back at the other in a 'what-the-Haydon-was-that?' move.)

NOTE: the BRITISH VERSION of the above has two missiles rise, then move away from each other in a 'V' shape at the end of the maneuver.

Hope you like.

Nice.

WildWalker

Thanks. Had the image of that in my mind after reading through this thread.

Emperor Ryu wrote:You have to hand it to both the original Macross and Macross Frontier for making the transformation of the capital ships a sound and viable option during combat.

Are there any more transforming capital ships, besides this one?

Actually Frontier showed the transformation is un-needed by allowing the Battle 25 fireit's fusion cannon withough transforming, unlike in Macross 7 when teh Battle 7 transformed every single time at wanted to fire the main gun...

Emperor Ryu wrote:

jaymz wrote:Actually Frontier showed the transformation is un-needed by allowing the Battle 25 fireit's fusion cannon withough transforming, unlike in Macross 7 when teh Battle 7 transformed every single time at wanted to fire the main gun...

I was referring to Macross Quarter in the final battle. It transformed and dodged a couple of blasts during its charge to do some damage.

Even Battle 25 tranformed in the final battle but it had lost its main cannon so it had to inorder to perform what looked remeniscent of a daedalus manuever.

Emperor Ryu wrote:

jaymz wrote:Even Battle 25 tranformed in the final battle but it had lost its main cannon so it had to inorder to perform what looked remeniscent of a daedalus manuever.

Given how many ships were destroyed just by sitting in formation, and not being able to maneuver effectively, like Macross Quarter, in the anime. I think the method of a transforming capital ship, opens up many more possibilities to survive a fight.

You'll also notice hoever htey didn;t have anywhere the size of a capital ship fleet that the Macross 7 fleet had.

While the Macross Quarter was ok I still woul have preferred a design that allowed th ship to manuever around liek that and not need a humanoid form but that's just me.

Emperor Ryu wrote: [in comparison to Macross Quarter's performance in the anime, sort of opens the strategies of transforming warfare to be taken into consideration.

Except the Macross Quarter doesn't really transform.
its arms and legs are present in both its "Ship" mode and its "solider" mode.
its "ship" mode is the equivalent of a person laying on their stomach.
not Really Transformation.
compared to the SDF-1 whos read deck split, and forward sections became over-sized shoulder canons, A Macross quarter is just moving its legs back down, and lowers its arms.....
not one would say I transform when i lay down on my bed....

Emperor Ryu wrote:

jaymz wrote:You'll also notice hoever htey didn;t have anywhere the size of a capital ship fleet that the Macross 7 fleet had.

While the Macross Quarter was ok I still woul have preferred a design that allowed th ship to manuever around liek that and not need a humanoid form but that's just me.

Well, . . a capital ship doesn't necessarily have to be the biggest in the fleet.

Well, I think the transformation alters target perception for the enemy on a very large scale in space. To have ships able to take advantage of this maneuverability, I'm confident that "less" ships will get destroyed in the future. I mean, ships a whole lot bigger than a Valkyrie, maneuver like a Valkyrie in just one form, in comparison to Macross Quarter's performance in the anime, sort of opens the strategies of transforming warfare to be taken into consideration.

I never said hte ship had ot be the biggest...I said the fleet itself wasn;t as big as the Macros 7 fleet, as in teh number of ships involved.

Colonel Wolfe wrote:

Emperor Ryu wrote: [in comparison to Macross Quarter's performance in the anime, sort of opens the strategies of transforming warfare to be taken into consideration.

Except the Macross Quarter doesn't really transform.
its arms and legs are present in both its "Ship" mode and its "solider" mode.
its "ship" mode is the equivalent of a person laying on their stomach.
not Really Transformation.
compared to the SDF-1 whos read deck split, and forward sections became over-sized shoulder canons, A Macross quarter is just moving its legs back down, and lowers its arms.....
not one would say I transform when i lay down on my bed....

The Macross Quarter's transformation sequence is indeed a very basic one. But it does shift from a configuration where it looks like a fancy ship to a configuration where it looks humanoid; to me, that's a transformation. And just as importantly, to them, it's a transformation: they call it that, in English no less. Search YouTube for "Macross Quarter Transformation" if you don't believe me.

dataweaver wrote:
The Macross Quarter's transformation sequence is indeed a very basic one. But it does shift from a configuration where it looks like a fancy ship to a configuration where it looks humanoid; to me, that's a transformation. And just as importantly, to them, it's a transformation: they call it that, in English no less. Search YouTube for "Macross Quarter Transformation" if you don't believe me.

Call it what you like, I dont think it Transforms, it Shifts forms, but calling that a Transformation is an insult to Autobots everywhere.
even the Transformation of the Archangel would have been way more Dramatic.
in the Past People on this very forum have said the Transformation of the Mospeda Jackal/ "Super Condor", isn't enough to call it Variable or Transformable:
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m77/ ... rone01.jpg

I mean honestly, I don't know if I would classify the Quarters apparent mode change as a transformation, maybe more of a repositioning.

Emperor Ryu wrote:Actually, it does transform between ship and battaloid/mecha/soldier. Quite distinctly too, in the anime.

sure, its all rather Dramatic, when it moves it legs down, and its arms around some.... but its Repositioning its Arms and Legs.... but you can account Clearly for all the Parts in both modes. Unlike the SDF-1 which makes a Dramatic Shift, splits it bough and over all become completely different.

Side note: Macross came out 2 years "before" Transformers.

Macross-F came out in 1982???? I swear it came out like 2 years ago.
The SDF-Macross Transforms. The Macross Quarter repositions its arms and legs.

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossf/mac ... arrier.jpg
the Legs and arms are clearly there, the Reposition to become this:

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossf/mac ... attack.jpg

I respect the Opinion it "Transforms", but I dont agree with it.
as Far as Ships go, the Quarter is Much cooler because it isn't a Transforming Ship... its technically a Amalgam mecha, consisting of 5 ships.... Something Voltron would be proud of.

Colonel Wolfe wrote:Call it what you like, I dont think it Transforms, it Shifts forms, but calling that a Transformation is an insult to Autobots everywhere.

Then consider them insulted.

Colonel Wolfe wrote:in the Past People on this very forum have said the Transformation of the Mospeda Jackal/ "Super Condor", isn't enough to call it Variable or Transformable:
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m77/ ... rone01.jpg

I mean honestly, I don't know if I would classify the Quarters apparent mode change as a transformation, maybe more of a repositioning.

I don't care what other people on this forum may or may not have said about the Condor; that's irrelevant here, because I am not them and the Macross Quarter is not the Condor.

Bottom line: sometimes the Macross Quarter looks and acts like a ship; other times, it looks and acts like a humanoid. And it switches between those two configurations using a process that the crew of the Macross Quarter calls a "Transformation". There may be fuzzy edges in terms of what is and is not a transformation; but the Macross Quarter isn't anywhere close to them. It transforms.

Oooohhhh ahhhhh .... the transforming Ark Angel .....

Myriad possibilities .... oh yes, possibly a descendant of the venerable SDF-5 Ark Angel, developed using experienced garnered from previous Robotech Wars up to Shadow Crisis, & served the United Earth Forces circa late 2050s to thru out 2060s. Eventual replacement by Macross Cannon class SDF.

I'll be darned ... now there's one way of interlocking Palladium RT into Mac II world .....

I think I have to go with Gryphon on this one. I do not think a colony vessel would make for a good flag ship. I like the vessel. but i think the colony vessel would be with a small fleet of escorts and frigates.