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Citizen Lazlo wrote:I've seen, and played, the current manuscript and it was pretty awesome!
Pepsi Jedi wrote:Not trying to be punchy but they've been promising us this one since the 90's. I'll believe in it's existence when i have it in hand.
Citizen Lazlo wrote:I've seen, and played, the current manuscript and it was pretty awesome!
Citizen Lazlo wrote:I've seen, and played, the current manuscript and it was pretty awesome!
The Dark Elf wrote:Citizen Lazlo wrote:I've seen, and played, the current manuscript and it was pretty awesome!
Me too. It was indeed a great manuscript.
Damian Magecraft wrote:Which Freelancer tackled this project?
DBX wrote:At last, the underwater realm of Lemuria. The people and history of Lemuria, new magic, sea herbs and healing, sea monsters, and more.
The Lemurians, their race, history and society.
New O.C.C.s including the Serpent Hunter, Shriekers, Oceanic Guardsman, Aquatic Biomancer and others.
DBX wrote:Bio-Armor, Bio-Weapons and Bio-Construct Symbiotes.
(not a bad thing actually)
The Baron of chaos wrote:DBX wrote:At last, the underwater realm of Lemuria. The people and history of Lemuria, new magic, sea herbs and healing, sea monsters, and more.
The Lemurians, their race, history and society.
New O.C.C.s including the Serpent Hunter, Shriekers, Oceanic Guardsman, Aquatic Biomancer and others.
Biomancers!! Aquatic Biomancer no least! Holy Sh**, and who expected them!DBX wrote:Bio-Armor, Bio-Weapons and Bio-Construct Symbiotes.
My Splicer sense is tickling here
And "new Psionic" as New psionic available to all Psychic classes, expecially Mind Melter?
TechnoGothic wrote:The Baron of chaos wrote:DBX wrote:At last, the underwater realm of Lemuria. The people and history of Lemuria, new magic, sea herbs and healing, sea monsters, and more.
The Lemurians, their race, history and society.
New O.C.C.s including the Serpent Hunter, Shriekers, Oceanic Guardsman, Aquatic Biomancer and others.
Biomancers!! Aquatic Biomancer no least! Holy Sh**, and who expected them!DBX wrote:Bio-Armor, Bio-Weapons and Bio-Construct Symbiotes.
My Splicer sense is tickling here
And "new Psionic" as New psionic available to all Psychic classes, expecially Mind Melter?
If they added SPLICER-like tech to RIFTS that would be awesome.
Citizen Lazlo wrote:I've seen, and played, the current manuscript and it was pretty awesome!
Shark_Force wrote:i'm not certain you understand what eugenics actually is. but it's not what you'll find in Splicers.
actually PU2s Eugenics and Splicers are very similar. Carmen designed them both from the same base concepts.Shark_Force wrote:i'm not certain you understand what eugenics actually is. but it's not what you'll find in Splicers.
Damian Magecraft wrote:actually PU2s Eugenics and Splicers are very similar. Carmen designed them both from the same base concepts.Shark_Force wrote:i'm not certain you understand what eugenics actually is. but it's not what you'll find in Splicers.
The Baron of chaos wrote:DBX wrote:At last, the underwater realm of Lemuria. The people and history of Lemuria, new magic, sea herbs and healing, sea monsters, and more.
The Lemurians, their race, history and society.
New O.C.C.s including the Serpent Hunter, Shriekers, Oceanic Guardsman, Aquatic Biomancer and others.
Biomancers!! Aquatic Biomancer no least! Holy Sh**, and who expected them!DBX wrote:Bio-Armor, Bio-Weapons and Bio-Construct Symbiotes.
My Splicer sense is tickling here
And "new Psionic" as New psionic available to all Psychic classes, expecially Mind Melter?
Shark_Force wrote:Damian Magecraft wrote:actually PU2s Eugenics and Splicers are very similar. Carmen designed them both from the same base concepts.Shark_Force wrote:i'm not certain you understand what eugenics actually is. but it's not what you'll find in Splicers.
Eugenics is a real word with a meaning that is very different from what happens in Splicers. it has absolutely nothing to do with grammar, and everything to do with the fact that the word was poorly chosen if you want to communicate what Splicers is like.
Shark_Force wrote:Damian Magecraft wrote:actually PU2s Eugenics and Splicers are very similar. Carmen designed them both from the same base concepts.Shark_Force wrote:i'm not certain you understand what eugenics actually is. but it's not what you'll find in Splicers.
Eugenics is a real word with a meaning that is very different from what happens in Splicers. it has absolutely nothing to do with grammar, and everything to do with the fact that the word was poorly chosen if you want to communicate what Splicers is like.
Damian Magecraft wrote:Shark_Force wrote:Damian Magecraft wrote:actually PU2s Eugenics and Splicers are very similar. Carmen designed them both from the same base concepts.Shark_Force wrote:i'm not certain you understand what eugenics actually is. but it's not what you'll find in Splicers.
Eugenics is a real word with a meaning that is very different from what happens in Splicers. it has absolutely nothing to do with grammar, and everything to do with the fact that the word was poorly chosen if you want to communicate what Splicers is like.
Yes we all know that it is a real word.
However in game terms Eugenics refers to a specific type of "system."
Therefore your argument that splicers is unrelated to eugenics while being as you put it "grammatically" correct is still wrong in reference to how its applied in Palladium.
Shark_Force wrote:Damian Magecraft wrote:Shark_Force wrote:Damian Magecraft wrote:actually PU2s Eugenics and Splicers are very similar. Carmen designed them both from the same base concepts.Shark_Force wrote:i'm not certain you understand what eugenics actually is. but it's not what you'll find in Splicers.
Eugenics is a real word with a meaning that is very different from what happens in Splicers. it has absolutely nothing to do with grammar, and everything to do with the fact that the word was poorly chosen if you want to communicate what Splicers is like.
Yes we all know that it is a real word.
However in game terms Eugenics refers to a specific type of "system."
Therefore your argument that splicers is unrelated to eugenics while being as you put it "grammatically" correct is still wrong in reference to how its applied in Palladium.
no, it's still a bad choice of words. this is the rifts boards, not the megaverse boards or the HU boards. you're using words that only having the meaning you want in a specific context, and are using them out of context. PU2 Eugenics OCC/powers/etc clearly defines what you're talking about. "eugenics" on the other hand does not. it would be much like going to an internet forum that talks about guns and asking people if they've tried the same RPGs as you. odds are good the first thing that comes to their mind will *not* be Role Playing Game.
as someone who has never owned powers unlimited 2, i can tell you right now that sentence is and will be confusing to anyone who is not familiar with the product in question. it's crappy communication because it generates confusion. anyone not familiar with PU2 eugenics or who simply doesn't make the connection is going to think you're referring to exactly what i linked. and the only way for them to know it's wrong would be to know something about Splicers.
i have no problem with bad grammar if it doesn't interfere with communication. if i tell you that me and bob are going to the store, it is not any less likely to be understood than if i was say that bob and i are going to the store. but if we've just been talking about needing a new hammer you're probably going to think i mean the hardware store, when perhaps i am simply planning on going to go buy a new book, or groceries, etc. thus, "the store" would be fine if i mean the hardware store in that case, but would not be a good choice of words to use if i am going to go buy some groceries, because you are very likely to misunderstand my meaning in that case. and if you are expecting me to come back with a hammer, then you are unlikely to go get a new hammer yourself, thus leading to wasted time while you wait around for a hammer only to discover that the hardest object i've returned with is a watermelon.
case in point, the word "eugenics" was used with no context given, and so i defaulted to the actual meaning of the word in common use. and since splicers doesn't have an awful lot in common with the standard meaning of the word, it caused a considerable amount of confusion that could have been avoided. and now we've gone back and forth for several posts on it. wasted time and effort, all because the word was never given context. if he had simply said "it's kinda like PU2's eugenics OCC/powers/whatever it is, then there would have been a lot less confusion (i might have wondered what PU2's eugenics is, but i would not have objected to the use of the word, because it has been clearly established that it is not the standard meaning of the word)
if you are not already *in* the context of heroes unlimited, and you want to use a term from heroes unlimited that isn't itself going to make it obvious you're referring to heroes unlimited, you need to establish that you're talking in terms of heroes unlimited if you wish to be understood. and here in this part of the forums we're in the context of rifts (and even then, if you really want to be clear and you're using a term that could be interpreted two different ways, it is probably a good idea to clearly establish what you mean, as not every person has every book)
Damian Magecraft wrote:Sorry no.
The megaversal system has already established how the term is used in the context of the games. Just because it is not a word you would choose is irrelevant.
if you cannot accept this then you and I have no further reason to discourse.
Shark_Force wrote:Damian Magecraft wrote:Sorry no.
The megaversal system has already established how the term is used in the context of the games. Just because it is not a word you would choose is irrelevant.
if you cannot accept this then you and I have no further reason to discourse.
that's idiotic. because the word is defined in a book that i (and likely many others) don't own (and which is not even a rifts book) it's apparently *my* fault for misunderstanding? nope, sorry, i don't buy that. there is no logical basis for me to assume that when you're in the Rifts forums you're talking about Heroes Unlimited.
and no, this is not "in context". if i just go over to the rpg.net boards and ask "how do i make an attack roll", then just because i've posted it on an RPG board doesn't mean that it's in context. this is the "Rifts" section of the forums. go up to the directory near the top of your web page, and you'll see it's in the subforum of "MDC worlds". go further up, and you'll see the board index, which splits everything down into smaller categories specifically so that you can discuss specific areas of knowledge. this section of the boards is, shockingly enough, set up for discussion about Rifts. if you wish to have crossovers assumed, you might try "All Things Palladium Books", but even then you would likely have to establish context if you want everyone to understand what you mean.
Shark_Force wrote:Damian Magecraft wrote:Sorry no.
The megaversal system has already established how the term is used in the context of the games. Just because it is not a word you would choose is irrelevant.
if you cannot accept this then you and I have no further reason to discourse.
that's idiotic. because the word is defined in a book that i (and likely many others) don't own (and which is not even a rifts book) it's apparently *my* fault for misunderstanding? nope, sorry, i don't buy that. there is no logical basis for me to assume that when you're in the Rifts forums you're talking about Heroes Unlimited.
and no, this is not "in context". if i just go over to the rpg.net boards and ask "how do i make an attack roll", then just because i've posted it on an RPG board doesn't mean that it's in context. this is the "Rifts" section of the forums. go up to the directory near the top of your web page, and you'll see it's in the subforum of "MDC worlds". go further up, and you'll see the board index, which splits everything down into smaller categories specifically so that you can discuss specific areas of knowledge. this section of the boards is, shockingly enough, set up for discussion about Rifts. if you wish to have crossovers assumed, you might try "All Things Palladium Books", but even then you would likely have to establish context if you want everyone to understand what you mean.
So if someone doesn't own Wormwood then there is no such thing as an Apok right? Or heck if you don't own WB 1 or Arzno there are no vampires? The thing with Rifts is that you can't just ignore all the other game systems. Rifts is the center of the Megaverse so ALL Palladium Books are sourcebooks for Rifts. Eugenics in HU means the same thing in Rifts because a Eugenics soldier from HU coming over to Rifts is still going to be a Eugenics soldier. Just because he comes from a world where it specifically meant genetic enhancement to improve the character doesn't mean that when he crosses over to Rifts he suddenly becomes the product of selective breeding.Damian Magecraft wrote:Shark_Force wrote:Damian Magecraft wrote:Sorry no.
The megaversal system has already established how the term is used in the context of the games. Just because it is not a word you would choose is irrelevant.
if you cannot accept this then you and I have no further reason to discourse.
that's idiotic. because the word is defined in a book that i (and likely many others) don't own (and which is not even a rifts book) it's apparently *my* fault for misunderstanding? nope, sorry, i don't buy that. there is no logical basis for me to assume that when you're in the Rifts forums you're talking about Heroes Unlimited.
and no, this is not "in context". if i just go over to the rpg.net boards and ask "how do i make an attack roll", then just because i've posted it on an RPG board doesn't mean that it's in context. this is the "Rifts" section of the forums. go up to the directory near the top of your web page, and you'll see it's in the subforum of "MDC worlds". go further up, and you'll see the board index, which splits everything down into smaller categories specifically so that you can discuss specific areas of knowledge. this section of the boards is, shockingly enough, set up for discussion about Rifts. if you wish to have crossovers assumed, you might try "All Things Palladium Books", but even then you would likely have to establish context if you want everyone to understand what you mean.
Just because you do not choose to own the book does not change the context in relation to the game. Palladium is a "mega-versal" system that means all books are relevant regardless of genre (especially when discussing game/mechanics features). You misunderstood the context fine. Trying to argue the real word definition after the misunderstanding was pointed out is just being argumentative to be argumentative.
gunn bros wrote:Not only is the term Eugenics offensive but anyone who uses or defends the use of the word is a racist and I will be contacting Palladium over their use of the word.
Damian Magecraft wrote:gunn bros wrote:Not only is the term Eugenics offensive but anyone who uses or defends the use of the word is a racist and I will be contacting Palladium over their use of the word.
DUDE! chill.
We are not discussing "true" eugenics.
We are discussing the game term.
Two completely separate subjects.
Accusing someone of being a racist over a word without checking out the full story is just as racist.
gaby wrote:what do you want to be in Lemuria?
Zer0 Kay wrote:Wow so now you're pulling the I don't own the book defense, so even though it is defined in the Megaverse as such anyone who argues otherwise is inccorect because YOU don't have the book. Wait who else uses this defense? Oh yeah... Emperor Ryu.
Anyone who owns the book and does not know what Eugenics refers to never read the book Seeing as it is one of the most extensive write ups in the book.Shark_Force wrote:Zer0 Kay wrote:Wow so now you're pulling the I don't own the book defense, so even though it is defined in the Megaverse as such anyone who argues otherwise is inccorect because YOU don't have the book. Wait who else uses this defense? Oh yeah... Emperor Ryu.
read the posts. i didn't say i don't own the book therefore it is invalid, i said the statement is UNCLEAR because that word has REAL LIFE MEANING which is by default what i analyse things under when i have no other specified reference to analyse them in comparison to. if it isn't within your capability to comprehend that this is going to cause problems for a large number of other people who don't own the book and understand things based on the default meaning of the word in real life, then i don't know what to tell you; apparently your grasp on basic logic is not so good. it is a real word which has a common, standard meaning, and that meaning is much more widely accepted in the real world. incidentally, that word *also* has the exact same meaning in rifts, because by default a word that we would use in the real world means exactly the same thing in rifts, because rifts uses the english language, not some made up language where the word "eugenics" doesn't exist. just as i don't go around looking for a special palladium definition of the word "happy" or "planet" i don't go around automatically looking through every palladium product on the off chance that someone has used a normal word to mean something completely different from the word's standard meaning. if not given any reason to assume otherwise, i will assume that if someone uses the word "happy", they simply mean the standard use of the word happy, not some sort of Happy OCC published in a rifter somewhere.
someone unfamiliar with the product in question is going to look at it and say "what the hell does biomancy have to do with a social movement to selectively breed humanity to generate desired traits or retain the supposed purity of a race, and why is someone writing a book about that for rifts?" and you know what? they'd be PERFECTLY WITHIN REASON. because the description does not in any way inform anyone who did not already know that you're referring to some specific rules in a specific book which i rather expect more people don't own than do. the statement was unclear. you can **** and moan all you want about me not owning the book, but that still doesn't magically turn the unclear statement into a clear one. it's badly worded, and it gives a false impression about what the book is about to anyone who doesn't own powers unlimited 2, or even those who own the book but don't remember the Eugenic thingy in particular.
TechnoGothic wrote:Splicer's Bio-tech is way different from Bio-Wizardary in Atlantis.
Splicer's Bio-tech is much better. Its Eugenics Science taken to a new level.
Take a good look at SPLICERS RPG sometime.
Organic Rockets. Bio-Energy Vents, Super-regeneration, Bio-lasers (that could hurt vamps as its true light and might be considered sunlight), and alot more cool stuff. Bio-Weapons, swords, axes, etc... Living Power Armor and Body Armors. and more.
Citizen Lazlo wrote:I've seen, and played, the current manuscript and it was pretty awesome!
The Baron of chaos wrote:Shark_Force wrote:i'm not certain you understand what eugenics actually is. but it's not what you'll find in Splicers.
Perhaps the exact term is Eugenetics, or even more precise advanced genetic engineering.
But I suggest you to cool down, Sharkforce. Your was close as a grammarnazi rant.
Cain wrote:The Baron of chaos wrote:Shark_Force wrote:i'm not certain you understand what eugenics actually is. but it's not what you'll find in Splicers.
Perhaps the exact term is Eugenetics, or even more precise advanced genetic engineering.
But I suggest you to cool down, Sharkforce. Your was close as a grammarnazi rant.
Ironically, Eugenics has far more in common with real Nazis than Shark_Force's post has in common with 'grammar-nazis'.
Heeheehee. Teehee. Ah, I love irony.....
Apologies to you if you are Jewish, Shark_Force. The only thing at all I find humorous at all is the irony of someone calling anybody else a nazi for saying they don't understand what eugenics is... I don't find Nazis or what their eugenics science led to to be humorous at all.
Genetic Engineering is indeed a better term to use.
gunn bros wrote:Not only is the term Eugenics offensive but anyone who uses or defends the use of the word is a racist and I will be contacting Palladium over their use of the word.
Har har, funny. So are you going to report KS to Palladium? Oh wait he is Palladium Eugenics existed before the Nazis. That is like reporting someone for using the swastika... it isn't german either it is Hindu. Or wait lets report someone for using the stylized double s's of the SS... oh waith that wasn't there's either it is the rune symbol for Thor. Gunn Bros... learn before you speak, otherwise your just trolling.Damian Magecraft wrote:gunn bros wrote:Not only is the term Eugenics offensive but anyone who uses or defends the use of the word is a racist and I will be contacting Palladium over their use of the word.
DUDE! chill.
We are not discussing "true" eugenics.
We are discussing the game term.
Two completely separate subjects.
Accusing someone of being a racist over a word without checking out the full story is just as racist.
Cain wrote:I have now lost all the excitement I had that Lemuria is FINALLY going to be released next year (maybe- they did say the same thing about it coming out in 1996). I no longer have any desire to discuss this book (the one I've most wanted to see in the entire history of Palladium Books).
Thanks guys. Really great of you. <that is sarcasm, just to be clear.
What is Emperor Ryu even being mentioned in this thread for? He has not even made a post in this thread! Save your personal insults for threads he's actually posting in, so he has a chance to defend himself, please. Better yet, just save your personal insults, period. They're against the rules here, supposedly, are they not? Or does that rule only apply to people levelling personal insults against those with a higher post count than them? Rediculous. Just because he said a couple stupid things in one thread is NO REASON to constantly bash him and insult him, even in threads that have NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH HIM, that he HAS NOT EVEN POSTED IN. Yeah, I'm talking to you, Zero. Grow up, PLEASE! For the sake of Palladium Books, GROW UP! (I convinced him just the other day to buy a few more books, but a lot of you BNFs seem to be only interested in insulting him, driving him away, and convincing him to buy other games instead. Like has happened to so many others that came on here before him. Way to go!) Consider yourself officially admonished by a Megaversal Ambassador for doing your part to make our job of attracting old fans back that much harder. We do NOT need THAT kind of "help"!
I used to have a great deal of respect for several of you, despite the fact that we sometimes or often disagree on things. Thanks to your behaviour in this thread, I no longer have ANY respect for you guys, and it will take a great deal of time and effort on your part to earn that back. Not that I expect you care, but...
(strtkwr, Shark_Force, The Beast and gunn bros, I am NOT talking about you guys at all, nor the first few posters in this thread).
Man, these boards are more hostile these days than they ever were in the past. You guys can sometimes make even the dirtiest underbellies of the internet look good. Pathetic.
All the insults hurled around here lately, and this thread in particular, really make me want to quit being a megaversal ambassador, quit plugging Palladium books to every gamer I know and meet, quit bugging my game stores to start carrying PB products again or order more copies of books if they still do carry them and even quit being a Palladium fan. If this is how the other fans act on a weekly basis, I am utterly embarassed to be associated with the fandom.
Nothing has gotten better over the years in this regard. It's just getting worse, all the time. Your elitist attitudes, bullying and constant personal insults to other posters and other fans are detrimental to our cause of trying to help save Palladium Books. They have never helped, and they never will. All it does is drive fans away from this community and from buying Palladiums products at all. The effect can be multiplied exponentially if you have a 'Rifter Contributer' or "Freelancer" tag under your name.
Yeah, I think I'm done with being a Megaversal Ambassador. Fans like you guys don't deserve such awesomeness as having other fans volunteering a great deal of their free time to promote these products.
Somebody tell Carl Gleba and spinachat for me that I shall no longer be writing up a nice letter and business plan to mail to Kevin to show him how to harness the power of nearly-free marketting techniques used by other niche-market small companies. It is really not worth my time to do so FOR FREE, when so many vocal fans and staff of Palladium Books are undeserving of Kevin's awesome products. They can feel free to email him my post on the subject if they want to, but I'm not going to spend the next few days writing him up a nice FREE business plan to go along with it, nor share the contacts of mine that he could use to make it happen. He'll have to find his own suppliers I guess. With fans like the ones around here, there's no way in hell I'm going to embarass myself further by asking old buddies to cut Palladium Books a sweet deal, just because they had fun in games I ran for them when they were in high school. They'd be even more disgusted by the behaviour of many palladium big name fans and freelancers than I am-- it's completely antithesis to the subcultures their businesses serve.
Your lack of integrity to your claimed views of desiring to help PB is sad. Not to mention that you don't even keep your word. When you say you should do something, like the business plan, you should deliver, your word is what ever you say not just what you say with an "I promise" or "I swear" somewhere around it. Allowing people not connected to the company except as the very loosely based "fan" to change your views is pittiful. I'm not saying your pittiful or sad I'm saying your ACTING pittiful and sad.Balabanto wrote:The Baron of chaos wrote:Shark_Force wrote:i'm not certain you understand what eugenics actually is. but it's not what you'll find in Splicers.
Perhaps the exact term is Eugenetics, or even more precise advanced genetic engineering.
But I suggest you to cool down, Sharkforce. Your was close as a grammarnazi rant.
I don't think so. Ask any Jewish person about the ideas behind Eugenics, and you'll probably find an offended man or women. Nazis used Eugenics as the basis for their so called "Arayan Society." That's enough to send up a red flag for most people using the word in a social context. This is a false trolling. He's not the only one who's a little teed.
I'm sure if you ask a jewish survivor they what they most remember it would not be the word or even the Nazi program of Eugenics. Cain wrote:(strtkwr, Shark_Force, The Beast and gunn bros, I am NOT talking about you guys at all, nor the first few posters in this thread).
The Beast wrote:Cain wrote:(strtkwr, Shark_Force, The Beast and gunn bros, I am NOT talking about you guys at all, nor the first few posters in this thread).
Nobody ever talks about me...
Cain wrote:Zer0 Kay wrote:It is pretty sad that someone would allow comments not related to a book to determine if they want to get it or not. I wasn't insulting ER, I was simply stating that he has used the same defense. There is no defense against an established and documented trend. I think your statement alone of not wanting to get Lemuria as a Megaversal Ambassador has done more damage than 100 of us complaining.
I never said I am not going to get the book. Read my words again instead of twisting them and putting words in my mouth. I only said you've killed my desire to DISCUSS this book that I am very excited about. I even pointed out it's the one single book in the entire history of Palladium Books that I have been most excited about getting.
If your intention was not to insult another poster, you should not have even mentioned his name, let alone with the wording you chose to use. And one statement in one thread does not establish a documented trend. He made a mistake. I forgave him for it, why can't you? He makes excellent contributions to many threads, and happens to be a pretty nice guy to boot, even if you disagree on things. He's exactly the kind of old returning fan that we need to be convincing to start GMing again and start buying books again. NOT the kind of person we should be ostracizing or picking on and showing to the door. Are you unaware of the dire straights PB is in these days or something? Or just too selfish to see past the tip of your own nose?
Shark_Force had very good points, clearly stated, about the confusion caused by failing to state what was meant by using an anti-semetic and socially unacceptable term. He was correct in pointing out that this is the Rifts forum, not the HU forum, and that such confusion is only natural to many people if it is not clearly communicated that you are talking about something from another gameline in the Rifts forum.
I've been getting really tired of so many posters around here, constantly belittling and looking down on anybody that doesn't have every single book. You're not going to convince anyone to buy every book that way, simply so they can be as leet as us collectors-- the only thing such attitudes convince people of is to say screw it and stop buying Palladium products that they don't really need for their games (and since so many people active on these forums freely and regularly admit they don't GM or play anymore, they're already buying books they don't actually "need", out of a sense of fandom and nostalgia, that's one of the last things we need to be seeing around here).Zer0 Kay wrote:Your lack of integrity to your claimed views of desiring to help PB is sad. Not to mention that you don't even keep your word. When you say you should do something, like the business plan, you should deliver, your word is what ever you say not just what you say with an "I promise" or "I swear" somewhere around it. Allowing people not connected to the company except as the very loosely based "fan" to change your views is pittiful. I'm not saying your pittiful or sad I'm saying your ACTING pittiful and sad.Zer0 Kay wrote:Hmm… apparently you haven't been here long or just don't read. There are several threads as, if not more, hostile than this (e.g. the ancient and very long "This is the tread that will not end…" aka "The teleport thread").
Oh BTW telling some one to grow up is in itself an insult… which makes you a hippocrit. Besides your little tantrum of (paraphrasing) "I don't want to buy a book because of non-related items that people are posting, I also don't like how you people act so I'm not going to do what I said I was going to do." shows a certain level of maturity. I hope you really aren't this way so I figure you had a rediculously bad day or many bad things have just built up and now you just aren't acting rationally.
I have been around here since the forums first went up. This is not my first account. I bought a new computer in 2004, and the email address I used when I first signed up no longer existed, so I was unable to reset the password I could no longer remember. After contacting those who run the forums to try and get it reset and changed to my new email address, I was told to just make a new account and sign up again, so I did so. I do read, and I possess a superhuman level of reading comprehension.
I am fully aware of the many threads more hostile than this one. It has always been a problem on these forums, and gets worse every year. As the fan base dwindles, the hostility to one another increases. This week has been especially bad on these forums-- and yet this is the one time of year even the biggest jerks in the world generally get into the season spirit and start acting compassionate and understanding towards their fellow humans. Why do you think I'm so pissed off at seeing yet another thread derail into the slinging of insults and pointless arguments that do nothing to help Palladium, and instead harm them by showing a fandom full of hostility to any current or potential customers that come here to read and lurk? Did you not read my post here that you replied to, where I indicated this has long been a problem? Let me repost the relevant paragraph for you, in case you missed it the first time.
"Nothing has gotten better over the years in this regard. It's just getting worse, all the time. Your elitist attitudes, bullying and constant personal insults to other posters and other fans are detrimental to our cause of trying to help save Palladium Books. They have never helped, and they never will. All it does is drive fans away from this community and from buying Palladiums products at all. The effect can be multiplied exponentially if you have a 'Rifter Contributer' or "Freelancer" tag under your name."
No I am not normally this way. I have skin thicker than a rhinos, and I very rarely ever go back on my word about anything, to anyone. You're only as good as your word, where I come from. I hate breaking promises (though I never gave a promise, I just agreed to think about doing what Carl and Spinachat asked me to do, and devote even more extra time to a great idea than I had devoted to it already). I feel rotten for deciding to go back on it, and probably always will. But I also find it too hard to continually push aside my ideals and morals just to take part in the whole 'Help Save Palladium' thing. I'd feel just as rotten for continuing to help a bunch of rotten fans. It wasn't an easy choice for me, but the most important choices in life rarely are easy ones.Zer0 Kay wrote:Hope your weekend goes better and you have a wonderful holiday season.
Same here. Spending the weekend with family and at the hilll catching some fresh pow' will surely do me a world of good. I have indeed been having a couple of bad days now, solely due to all the venom and insults being hurled around on these very forums. Yes, it is making me a bit irrational I fear, which is not normal for me.
Then again, anti-semitism and seeing people defend it always makes me angry and irrational. Far too many people (including my family) sacrificed everything to put an end to the holocaust. I own PU2, but have never used it or allowed anything from it in my games, solely because the term "Eugenics Heroes" is incredibly offensive to every jewish and german person in the world, and is pretty much offensive to the entire human race.
And no, I do not need to ask a holocaust survivor if they remember the word eugenics and what it represents. I have two in my family, as do the families of many of our family friends. They taught me as a young child not to use such anti-semetic terms. There is nothing funny at all about anti-semetism or those who defend it by saying it's okay to use such terms these days, just because the holocaust was over 50 years ago. I can't ask my Uncle if he still remembers Eugenics, as he died a couple years ago, and my aunt is almost on her death bed right now. And I will certainly NOT be asking my grandfather about it when we call him this weekend-- the last thing I want to do is upset an old man at christmas time by bringing up the holocaust and Nazi Eugenics programs just to settle an argument on the internet. Sheesh. (I'm guessing that you never expected me, or any other member of this forum, actually know holocaust survivors... or I can't imagine why you would have said that.)
Zero, do you have ANY idea how much trouble Palladium would have been in if they had slapped swastikas or SS symbols on the side of Coalition tanks? They would have been sued out of business a long time ago if they'd done something that insensitive and foolish, if the mainstream media had ever noticed and gotten a hold of it. Thankfully Kevin is smarter than that, and was always careful to keep the Coalition and their similarity to the Nazis on the subtle and though-provoking level instead of blatantly promoting anti-semitism by putting swastikas on all their uniforms and equipment, instead of just telling us that the evil Emperor Prosek considers Adolph Hitler a role model. You can do that if you're writing a book or filming a movie about World War II, but you cannot get away with that in fantasy and science fiction that is not set during the Great War (or some parallel world of the same time period). And no self-respecting worshipper of Thor still uses that ancient symbol-- yeah, because the Nazi's ruined it. Nor does the palladium game version of Thor (or any of his several imitators) wear that symbol. Nor do any of the many comic-book versions of Thor use it. For damn good reason. Though didn't PB catch a fair bit of flak from their own fans for including dee-bee extermination death-camps in the Siege on Tolkeen? I never complained about that myself, but a lot of other customers of theirs did bring it up (I just started a campaign to get the PCs to go in and put an end to those camps, but could not bring myself to actually complete the campaign to that point, it was simply too painful for me and I think games should be ultimately fun, even when they're provoking deep thought and self-examination through the characters and the tough choices they're forced to face. My wife is going to hate me when or if she reads this, I never told her WHY I stopped GMing that campaign, and she REALLY loved her Coalition character.
"Lest we forget". Perhaps you heard that phrase again a month ago, when we remember the sacrifices of our veterans. Do you understand it, or like so many people today, have you forgotten that it is meant to remind us of the horrors of the holocaust, and that we should never again let that happen?
I'm sorry Zero, if I am being irrational on the subject, but like many others I have very good reason for it when it comes to the Nazis. And unfortunately, they're still around. Just two months ago neo-nazis did a brutal assault and home invasion on a mayoral candidate's family in my city-- because her husband is an activist who in the past has organized protests when the Nazis try to hold rallies around here. Anyway, I hope you have a good weekend and good holiday as well. And I pray that you at least consider that you've been unnecesarily offending people in this thread, and that the holiday break does ALL of us some good.
Pepsi -- I will certainly consider your very mature advice over the weekend and the holidays. I certainly do know where the door is, and am certainly adult enough and mature enough to vote with my phat wallet if that's what it comes down to (seems to me that's what you're suggesting). Using the word eugenics in any fashion is always anti-semtic and boosting up the nazis, whether it is intentional or not. It was never a science, it was a social movement about maintaining racial purity -- outdated concepts that in the past have led to more human suffering than any other single thing in history. What we have in this science fiction setting is NOT Eugenics (even if they unfortunately called it that) but the actual sciences of genetics and genetic engineering. But I'll consider your advice. And thanks for proving my point about how stupidly hostile people around here are being lately. Telling people you disagree with on the forums they aren't mature enough or adult enough to handle RPGs and pointing out where the door is sure doesn't help Palladium keep or attract fans in order to sell more books to pull themselves out of the danger-zone.
Enjoy the holidays guys and girls. Maybe I'll see you all again in the new year. Or maybe I'll have found my way to the door instead. There's only two more books I actually need to continue my campaigns anyway-- not that I really NEED them per se, I've been using the Lemurians in the background since the first Rifts main book came out, I just want to get the book and have them finally MEET them and finally read the awesomeness Kevin's been talking about since 1993. So yeah, even if you guys don't see me back after the holidays, rest assured I'll still be buying Lemuria (though I won't be duped into pre-ordering it again due to how many times the book has been announced in the past as "coming next year!" Bah, this is already starting to look like it may be an easier decision than it should be...
Shark_Force wrote:Damian Magecraft wrote:Sorry no.
The megaversal system has already established how the term is used in the context of the games. Just because it is not a word you would choose is irrelevant.
if you cannot accept this then you and I have no further reason to discourse.
that's idiotic. because the word is defined in a book that i (and likely many others) don't own (and which is not even a rifts book) it's apparently *my* fault for misunderstanding? nope, sorry, i don't buy that. there is no logical basis for me to assume that when you're in the Rifts forums you're talking about Heroes Unlimited.
and no, this is not "in context". if i just go over to the rpg.net boards and ask "how do i make an attack roll", then just because i've posted it on an RPG board doesn't mean that it's in context. this is the "Rifts" section of the forums. go up to the directory near the top of your web page, and you'll see it's in the subforum of "MDC worlds". go further up, and you'll see the board index, which splits everything down into smaller categories specifically so that you can discuss specific areas of knowledge. this section of the boards is, shockingly enough, set up for discussion about Rifts. if you wish to have crossovers assumed, you might try "All Things Palladium Books", but even then you would likely have to establish context if you want everyone to understand what you mean.
strtkwr wrote:TechnoGothic wrote:Splicer's Bio-tech is way different from Bio-Wizardary in Atlantis.
Splicer's Bio-tech is much better. Its Eugenics Science taken to a new level.
Take a good look at SPLICERS RPG sometime.
Organic Rockets. Bio-Energy Vents, Super-regeneration, Bio-lasers (that could hurt vamps as its true light and might be considered sunlight), and alot more cool stuff. Bio-Weapons, swords, axes, etc... Living Power Armor and Body Armors. and more.
Actually, I own the Splicers RPG, and have read it cover to cover. To me, both Bio-Wizardry and the Bio-tech in splicers are similar in concept, if not actual practice. Both create living tools and modify creatures. The end results may look slightly different, but to me, they seem to be releated.
And on a side note, I did not mean to start a debate about use of the word Eugenics.
ZINO wrote:Citizen Lazlo wrote:I've seen, and played, the current manuscript and it was pretty awesome!
WELL give some info about this
thank you
Pepsi Jedi wrote:Wow. I walk away and people are talking about the likelyhood of the book ever being published. I come back and there are people fighting over the use of a word from a sci fi universe?
Dudes....
Take a deep breath.
Mellow......
It's not only pretty clear, but it's extreamly clear that noone is boosting up the Nazi's and using the word in that fashion.
If you can't get that, on your own, well then maybe you need to put down the role playing books. And exit over there to the left. Because you're not adult enough or mature enough to handle these games. (( or any RPGs))
Palladium is about as "G" to "PG" as you can get in the RPG market. It doesn't get much softer. If you can't handle these with out getting punched in the jimmy about a word. You're looking for recreation in the wrong location.
The Beast wrote:Cain wrote:(strtkwr, Shark_Force, The Beast and gunn bros, I am NOT talking about you guys at all, nor the first few posters in this thread).
Nobody ever talks about me...
