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I need some fans to review these character sheets/booklet for me...volunteers must provide e-mail addresses in a privet message. Please and thank you. And character generator programmers, you really need to look a this and consider something like this for the programing.

It is unfinished at the moment. However, I am very confident you guys will like them.

Well, I will need some borders for them. I'm still looking. And some other things.

I am still waiting to hear from 2 of you.

Jupios wrote:

pblackcrow wrote:I am still waiting to hear from 2 of you.

I glanced at it before the big storm, been shoveling and plowing since. All done with that finally, so Ill get you a critique later tonight



Ok, its later Ill start by prefacing that I am not a graphic designer, so you can take my suggestions with a grain of salt. First, wow, your very thorough. Tis' a big book with tons of info I wouldn't use. However the way you have the book laid out makes it somewhat modular in nature in that the user could pick and choose what pages they may or may not use. Thats a good thing. Secondly on the visual aspect of your booklet, I would make more use of different fonts. I understand when script is small the options for legible fonts are limited, but I said it anyway Also I would try and bring some color into the booklet. Color is a good thing be it the script or perhaps some background color blocks. This would break up the info as well as make it more aesthetically pleasing. As to the spell pages.. good room for lots of useful info at a quick glance, but I do wonder if you could break down the list further by spell category, and level. A page and book reference might also be of use. One thing I did notice missing was circles and runes and their required components. On the skills lists, I personally like to break them down by OCC, related, and secondary, just a personal preference tho.

There ya go, my humble opinion now off to the studio,,I wish you could organize that for me as thoroughly as you did your booklet ;P

Thank you for that. I am going to add color to it with the borders. As soon as I can find the right ones, which has presented a challenge. Also, I might surprise you with the font that will go at the top of each page, along the border. Once I feel well enough to do so. Ribs aren't quite healed enough not to cause me a fair bit of pain when I bend over to draw.

Okay...pst, what do you think the check boxes at the top of page 7 are for? Still, I do see your point there. As for circle and diabolist components...That's what the equipment list is for.

Here's something else to consider: It's going to be a fill in computer file, so you can fill out everything and be able to print it out and also have the ability to save it with PDFill (a really inexpensive PDF editing program). I am going to do one that is for non-magic and non-psychic classes that is nowhere near as long.

Also, it lets people access a lot more than the basic sheets (No offense to Mike, who was the first one to see them out side of my gaming groups). With a fair bit of information covered right there at their finger tips. You are correct in that I laid it out that way to give them the option of printing a single page at a time.

No big deal. Uh, you mean the 2nd page...the 1st page is just the cover sheet.

Anyway, thank you for that. Uh, as soon as I am able to draw, I will get things finished. I am just about there. So, Wayne and Kevin, if you're reading this or someone else is...look for the submission May earliest/August latest. Maybe sooner.

K, I looked over the booklet/character sheet, my big problem with it is thats a lot of pages... when I'm playing I don't want to go through that many pages to find what I need. Its a very comprehensive sheet with a ton of information, I just like a much smaller character sheet, like 2 or 3 pages tops. You have done a good job organizing the information with a lot of detail.

Thanks you so much for that review. I did it so you could go in and pick out what you wanted to print off. Also, so you can save everything about your character. I am sorry you didn't like the size, however let's face facts...you are not going to get that amount of detail on 3 pages. Unless you can read font size 0.0001. Now I am being a smart***, Again, I do wish to thank you for the review.

In a word... WOW this looks great! a ton of very useful info in this. once you get it compleatly finished i'd say pass it onto Kev for his take on it, i'm sure he'd love it too. I can see this easly becomming the standard PF sheet.

Pharaoh XIII:
It's a booklet...So, technically it would be still be on the 1st part of the booklet. There is a reason I did it that way...I put the attack information with the weapons because of weapon bonuses.

Eryk Stormbright:
Believe me, I intend to do just that.

And thank you both for the review.

Pharaoh XIII wrote:I realize that of course, just giving you my personal feelings on it. Gonna use the booklet in our current campaign when we meet this Friday. I'll let you know how my "playtest" works out . I'll also get some opinions from the rest of my group and give you their feedback as well. Thanks a bunch!

Sounds good to me.

And I know it might seam like I am trying to defend my work here, but I'm not. Simply explaining there is a reason for it being that way. I am VERY thankful for everyone's critiques.

I am still a bit sore, on the up side: the black, blue, and shades of purple have gone to pink.

So after a quick read through of it I'd suggest the following;

Reduce each type of page to one in the PDF form to save scrolling, players who need more then one page can print more of it off as needed.

Remove some of the less common saves; Staying Calm, Soul drinking, Extreme Temps, Faerie Magic, Magic Fumes, Magic Wards. Extremely few characters will have a situational modifier to these, and there is more then enough blank space to fill these random bonuses in by hand. Also, I'd remove the standard save listing for Magic abilities, it is my thought it creates a mindset that those are forever fixed at that number, which they are not, and they ad a fair deal of clutter to the space.

Group Saves to related numbers (Save vs Magic, followed by Save vs Magic Wards, Ritual magic, Fay Magic, Magic Circles, etc) to keep like minded bonuses near each other when filling them in, this prevents hunting for numbers when a user knows "Magic stuff is all at the bottom." There is no logic in having Lethal Toxins, non-Lethal Toxins, Harmful Drugs, and Disease all scattered around.

Replace Hit Points with HP, and move it to the end if its line (Level now being under Alignment), this creates a simple column from AR to HP, visually grouping like minded numbers that will be used in conjunction commonly.

I personally would remove the Racial Hostilities and expand more into Disposition's allotted space. Players can place their desired hostilities there if they wish to have them, those who don't simply lose four and a have lines of space. Replace "Distinguishing Features" With Appearance, shorter wording offers a bit of added space.

Replace Class Abilities and Racial Abilities into a single "Abilities", they're going to know if it's racial or otherwise, and this offers more space for the races with more wordy abilities.

Move the Lift, Carry and Throw up closer to the stats (by Height, Weight, etc) OR down to the combat Stats if you can make space for it by eliminating a line of Special Attacks, move Class / Racial Abilities to be second to bottom, Money to the bottom, and group Homeland, Mother / Father Information, followed by Siblings to again follow logical flow of events. I would put them after fields describing the character proper (being the most important subject the page is about). Similarly, group Quirks and Flaws near Disposition.

The Vehicle space with both a check box for type, and a field for type is a redundancy. Reduce to just Field, with a Header for "Vehicle" or "Transportation". The weapon section in this is odd to me, it feels small for things with weapons (warships), but completely unneeded else where (Carrages / Wagons). That's something I'd actually have to toy with to have a real solution to beyond offering expand by about 4 lines, eating space used by Misc Notes.

The blank space for blueprints and maps, well thinking ahead is unneeded. Anyone who needs a blank sheet can fill in the check box by hand.

That seems to be everything I can find myself critical on at a glance You do get pretty much everything one could possibly need in a character sheet on there (which I'm biased about anyway, never was much of a user of Character sheets in a pre-made format, find them too small / restrictive). This one seems well thought out though, with the trade off that it is detail heavy.

Cinos wrote:So after a quick read through of it I'd suggest the following;

Reduce each type of page to one in the PDF form to save scrolling, players who need more then one page can print more of it off as needed.

I plan on making 3 out of it, this one being the master to be the one that people can fill in and save.

Remove some of the less common saves; Staying Calm, Soul drinking, Extreme Temps, Faerie Magic, Magic Fumes, Magic Wards. Extremely few characters will have a situational modifier to these, and there is more then enough blank space to fill these random bonuses in by hand. Also, I'd remove the standard save listing for Magic abilities, it is my thought it creates a mindset that those are forever fixed at that number, which they are not, and they ad a fair deal of clutter to the space.

Not a chance. With my own group, we encounter a lot of stuff. All of those saves and more come in handy! Listing them there, keeps us from hunting threw book, after book, after book. But thank you for your insight.

Group Saves to related numbers (Save vs Magic, followed by Save vs Magic Wards, Ritual magic, Fay Magic, Magic Circles, etc) to keep like minded bonuses near each other when filling them in, this prevents hunting for numbers when a user knows "Magic stuff is all at the bottom." There is no logic in having Lethal Toxins, non-Lethal Toxins, Harmful Drugs, and Disease all scattered around.

You have a valid point there. I shall see about it changing it to flow more favorably.

Replace Hit Points with HP, and move it to the end if its line (Level now being under Alignment), this creates a simple column from AR to HP, visually grouping like minded numbers that will be used in conjunction commonly.

Thanks for the idea of moving the Hit Points over, but I won't be changing it to an acronym.

I personally would remove the Racial Hostilities and expand more into Disposition's allotted space. Players can place their desired hostilities there if they wish to have them, those who don't simply lose four and a have lines of space. Replace "Distinguishing Features" With Appearance, shorter wording offers a bit of added space.

I may replace distinguishing features. And no chance in me getting rid of the Racial Hostilities, sorry.

Replace Class Abilities and Racial Abilities into a single "Abilities", they're going to know if it's racial or otherwise, and this offers more space for the races with more wordy abilities.

Not happening, and here's why...As a Game Master, I want them separate.

Move the Lift, Carry and Throw up closer to the stats (by Height, Weight, etc) OR down to the combat Stats if you can make space for it by eliminating a line of Special Attacks, move Class / Racial Abilities to be second to bottom, Money to the bottom, and group Homeland, Mother / Father Information, followed by Siblings to again follow logical flow of events. I would put them after fields describing the character proper (being the most important subject the page is about). Similarly, group Quirks and Flaws near Disposition.

Okay on moving the Lift, Carry and Throw...

The Vehicle space with both a check box for type, and a field for type is a redundancy. Reduce to just Field, with a Header for "Vehicle" or "Transportation". The weapon section in this is odd to me, it feels small for things with weapons (warships), but completely unneeded else where (Carrages / Wagons). That's something I'd actually have to toy with to have a real solution to beyond offering expand by about 4 lines, eating space used by Misc Notes.

There are different types of ships, wagons, carriage, etc. War/battle chariots have weapons on the wills. War wagons can have weapons all over it...Example: the Chinaman's wagon Dragon Heart 2: A New Beginning. So, yeah...there are a lot of weapons that could be hidden on a carriage. So, Hey.

The blank space for blueprints and maps, well thinking ahead is unneeded. Anyone who needs a blank sheet can fill in the check box by hand.

Want to bet? As I said, it was made with the abstract thought of it being used in a character generator/GM's tools. So there is a reason for everything.

That seems to be everything I can find myself critical on at a glance You do get pretty much everything one could possibly need in a character sheet on there (which I'm biased about anyway, never was much of a user of Character sheets in a pre-made format, find them too small / restrictive). This one seems well thought out though, with the trade off that it is detail heavy.

Thank you for that review, Mate!!!

Again, those where just my thoughts on the matter, I'd debate back and forth on the merits of points, but you've got what you have in mind for it (My voice was from the stand point of more a mass consumption view, in which simplification and ease of use are BIG factors), but hopefully it helps you refine it a bit.

Note; After watching the first Dragonheart, I never will have interest in watching anything with its name again

Cinos wrote:Again, those where just my thoughts on the matter, I'd debate back and forth on the merits of points, but you've got what you have in mind for it (My voice was from the stand point of more a mass consumption view, in which simplification and ease of use are BIG factors), but hopefully it helps you refine it a bit.

Note; After watching the first Dragonheart, I never will have interest in watching anything with its name again

You helped me to organize it and help it flow better. Flow is extremely important.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I am going to leave it for now because of the to hit and what not bonuses from the weapons. But after I get it as closed to perfection, and the borders on there, I will stretch the margins out to give you a bigger area to work with. Plus, it's going to be fill in so.

I think I earned some geek points with this.

pblackcrow wrote:I think I earned some geek points with this.

+15 Geek Points from me, even though I still say your layout is wrong

only 15? lol well I think that she's done an amazing job and for what it's worth i'd give 2,000 GPs

Eryk Stormbright wrote:only 15? lol well I think that she's done an amazing job and for what it's worth i'd give 2,000 GPs

I'm preventing the devaluation of Geek points, if you just shower people with them, you saturate the market, geek point taxes skyrocket, just makes a mess of the internet economy. And based on how often I give anyone props, 15 is a pretty rare sight out of this scrooge.

Eryk: SHE??? Uh, I am male, at least the last time I went to use the water closet I had the right equipment for one. But hell, this is a natural occurrence. Shannon is a unisex name. Anyway, no worries.

Cinos: You're alright. You gave me quite a good chuckle.

lol opps, sorry bout that

No worries.

pblackcrow wrote:No worries.

Isn't this where you're supposed to become enraged, fly off the handle, berating someones intelligence and ten other mean things? Com'on! This is the internet! I demand blood!

On a more on topic issue, if you've done any adjustments (or after you've done any planned adjustments), mind shooting me a copy of the booklets?

LOL.

I don't mind, but it maybe a while...Family matter to deal with so first, I am my mum's currently. As soon as I get back I will.

pblackcrow wrote:LOL.

I don't mind, but it maybe a while...Family matter to deal with so first, I am my mum's currently. As soon as I get back I will.

That's more then fine, not like I'm doing anything any time soon.

I'm sorry, I don't know what came over me, I meant; UNACCEPTABLE! How dare you have a life outside of gaming and spending hours on projects and not instantly offer to send it to random people you've never met!

LOL...Uh, don't press your luck, Mate.

LOL when you get everything done could you shoot me a copy too plz?

Eryk Stormbright: Sure.

And by the way, Cinos...I will send you a copy. The don't press your luck statement was to the last part of your last post. I'm usually take things in stride, and I know it said was in fun, and I did laugh. But the one thing you don't want to mess with me about is the help I give to people, my mother especially.

Onetodie: Uh, no. But it will be probably this weekend, if then, before I have a chance to send it. Please PM me with your e-mail address. And you'll probably be the last one. I will stop sending it on the 1st. So if there is anymore on here that wants in on this, SPEAK UP NOW. Can't have everyone seeing it.

CoalitionMerc wrote:could i get a look at character booklet?
been looking for a cs that has what i need on it and im hoping this is what i am looking for

Yes. PM me your e-mail address.

And also welcome to the forum.

No big.

CoalitionMerc wrote:two things that i see that bug me are no space for %per level and the lines are dotty. only thing i can see from a quick glance over it

what do you mean by % per level?

pblackcrow wrote:

CoalitionMerc wrote:two things that i see that bug me are no space for %per level and the lines are dotty. only thing i can see from a quick glance over it

what do you mean by % per level?

Guessing but I assume he is referring to the advancement rate for skills, allowing a space for notation of it so when you level up, you don't need to reference this value again.

Oh, okay...Ach, uh, chalk that up to: lack of room. I am quite sorry.

Thanks.

I am still waiting on Torval.

Sorry for the long delay. My job had been very hectic lately and I hadn’t been privileged with enough free time to give a well thought out review. Before I go any further I just want to thank you for allowing me the opportunity to see it. Overall, I am very pleased. I will break down my observations and concerns by page and try to be as specific as possible.

I have not read any reviews from the thread so far because I wanted to give an unbiased opinion. Please do not take any of my comments as attacks. I only offer constructive criticism.

Cover Page

I’m not sure I could suggest anything different. I think it is simple and functional and although I can’t even draw a straight line – I really enjoy the idea of a space allowed for you to draw something on the front unique to your character. If I was artistically inclined in the slightest, I would enjoy having that space to perhaps draw a picture of my character or a unique weapon that he has. Perhaps a musical instrument that he knows how to play. Anything to make it more specific to that character. I love it.

Page 2

Right side – Saves, Bonuses and Rolls

I love the detail and instantaneous information that this section offers. I think it is great to have all of those saves listed out. I thought it was rather odd to have the combat bonuses mixed in there as they are also on page 3. Also, if you were going to include the combat bonuses in this section then I am curious as to why it does not include an Initiative field. I would personally like the Initiative field added into that area. The only other thing that bothered me was that it seemed like the fields were in there with no particular order. Personally, if I were to change this area, I would sequester all of the combat bonuses together. Then I would list the skill bonus field, trust/intimidate, charm/impress, perception, and then the saves all listed in alphabetical order. The other option I may go with is to list the saves in order for the easiest to hardest.

The skills list could use a spot for the percentage increase per level. It looks like you could easily fit a small spot for the skills list on the left but not on the right. Perhaps you could shorten the skills name line just a smidge to allow for a percentage increase line?

I love the room and detail allotted to the rest of the page and as a whole, really enjoy it. I especially enjoy the distinguishing features area.

Page 3

I enjoyed this page as a whole. I would only offer minor tweaks. I would have put the PPE Channeling Rate, Per Melee Round, Focus Strength and Focus Rate below maintain balance and above special attack notes. I just think that it would flow better. I love the area for weapons and especially ranged and thrown weapons but I would have liked a spot like that for armor. There is a lot of room in the armor section and that is nice but I would like something segmented as the weapons section is. A spot for the armor’s name, AR, SDC, and weight would be excellent. I realize that most people probably could do without it; however, I think it would be a nice tweak.

Page 4

I love this page. I think it is absolutely brilliant. I would not change a thing on this page.

Page 5

An equipment area that I can actually fit stuff on and read with ease? Yes please! I enjoy this page very much as well.

Page 6

At first I thought this page was kind of pointless. I often write extensive background stories for my character which takes up more than a few pages so I will not be using it for that purpose. It is a nice page to jot quick notes down during a game session to remember key information. I also decided that I could still do my background stories in full length as I always do and just jot down key points about the background that I would want to have easily at hand without scanning the story. I could use this page in that regard.

I would probably not use this page; however, I can see the use for it and think that you should leave it in the booklet.

Page 7-16

I like this setup. I think it gives you all of the essentials in one place. I do find it to be very busy and I could see myself having trouble finding information on here if I had many spells written down. I understand that you have more pages than will be necessary in most cases and I am fine with that. My only suggestion would be to maybe allow a single space between the end of each spell and the beginning of a new one. Just my opinion.

Page 17-20

Please refer to my review of pages 7-16 and substitute the word psionics/psionic in place of the word spells/spell.

Page 21

Another page which I absolutely love. Although my characters are usually never privileged enough to have more than a personal mount, I genuinely love this page. I know there is a section for miscellaneous notes at the bottom but I would love to see a field at the top for the captain or boss(not always applicable, I know). I know there is also the crew section but I just think it would be nice to have the leader sequestered into his/her own area. Just makes for easy reference.

Page 22

I enjoy this page. I think I would like an owner field to be added so that if you wanted you could add favorite shops or destinations of your character. Your character stumbled into a capital city and found a very small alchemist shop. Jimbob the alchemist was particularly helpful and really seemed to get along well with your character. It would be nice to be able to note that on this page. I realize that its main purpose it to records your personal real estate but I think you could make it have dual purposes if you added that singular field.

Page 23

I think this page could be useful. As I stated previously, I am not artistically inclined. I can’t even draw a straight line to save my life. In the hands of someone who can do more than a crooked stick figure, this page could be a nice addition.

Page 24-27

I think that these pages could be useful to a player but would find much more use in the hands of a GM. I think they are solid pages none the less.

Pages 28-32

I really enjoy these pages a lot. I was actually thinking about creating something that would allow me to easily record and recall this information but never got around to it. I am always writing down NPCs that I come across whom I think are noteworthy for a myriad of reasons. These pages gives me a lot of room to do just that.

Page 33

I absolutely love this page. I often find my characters investing in something only to completely forget about it later on because I don’t bother to jot it down. This is great. Another very useful page for me.

Page 34

I can see the usefulness in this page; however, I will most likely never use it. My characters have never taken out any sort of debt. I think that is more a trait of the GM that I usually play under than one of my characters.

Thank you for that.

I hope my review was of use to you and apologize again for the delay. I would like to request permission from you to use some of these sheets in my upcoming game. I understand that consent is probably unspoken since I am in possession of a copy of it but I still feel like I should ask.

Thanks again man. This booklet is awesome.

Torval wrote:I hope my review was of use to you and apologize again for the delay. I would like to request permission from you to use some of these sheets in my upcoming game. I understand that consent is probably unspoken since I am in possession of a copy of it but I still feel like I should ask.

Thanks again man. This booklet is awesome.

Yeah, it was. Most of it I agree with you about, and we were totally of the same mind on the Saves, Bonuses, and Rolls section. And you've given me an idea for another page. Places of note page. Thank you.

Yes, of course. And please let me know how it works for you.

Once again, THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT THE SHEET!!! My mates tend to be towards the mind set of it either works for them or it doesn't...and, well, they aren't very helpful at all when it comes to critiquing my stuff. So, uh yeah! But on the up side, they're a great lot.

Anyway, again, I thank you all for your help.

Not got the borders on it yet because my time has been restricted but I have the final draft done. I will be working with a friend to try and finish it up. Once that is done I am going to resize the margins. Actually, I am going to make 5 total. The master one, one without the additional pages; which will not be the only one that will not be in a fill in PDF format, one with the magic listed; no psionics, one with the psionics listed; no magics, one without any magic or psionic. But I will be doing a reevaluation of the master booklet in late April, I HOPE!!! Untl then, cheers!

Guys, what have your players said so far? I am still waiting on my friend to get those borders back to me. Arggg.

pblackcrow wrote:Guys, what have your players said so far? I am still waiting on my friend to get those borders back to me. Arggg.

I'm sorry buddy. I haven't had a chance to test it out yet.

pblackcrow wrote:Guys, what have your players said so far? I am still waiting on my friend to get those borders back to me. Arggg.

I sadly can't give any of this, my local rule set has made 90% of everything on there completely useless due to core rule changes.

Well, I am finished with my part of it...I would like to open it back up here for a month of review.

Any one interested?

definitely count me down as interested.

pblackcrow wrote:Well, I am finished with my part of it...I would like to open it back up here for a month of review.

Any one interested?

If you want me to review it again I will do so.

I apologize for not having this done more quickly. I still think the booklet looks great and most of my previous statements from reviewing it still stand. Instead of going page by page again, I am simply going to comment on the pages where I have noticed changes. These page numbers will correspond to the new booklet – not the old one.

Page 1

You changed the font to something that is easier to read. I think it has lost some of the personality but it was in exchange for easier reading. I think it’s a fair trade and doesn’t necessarily hurt anything.

Page 2

I really love the reorganization of this page. I think it flows much better now. I especially like that most of the saves were alphabetized. I understand why you sequestered the magic saves outside of the others and think that it is a good idea; however, why not still have those magic saves in alphabetic order? I think it would make that section flow just a little more and be more uniform with the rest of the saves area. I am glad you took the combat information out of the saves area. I like that you cut the skills box some to indicate which skills were secondary skills. I think that is a really solid edit.

Page 3

This page looks mostly the same to move other than moving the fields around. I am unsure if you moved some fields because of my advice or not but I think it flows much better this way. I also love that you added a small section for armor towards the bottom of the page. That is exactly what I was looking for and thought would make a great addition!

Page 4

This looks good but I have to ask, the note at the bottom that states animals are -4 to save, what is that a save against? All saves? Magic? Poison?

Page 18

I don’t know how I missed this last time but what does LoT stand for? Length of Trance? Either way, I think the section still looks solid and will function well.

Page 37

This is a new addition to the booklet and I am very happy to see it. At first glance, I felt like it was missing a field for some sort of vital information but I couldn’t put my finger on it. I spent a good five minutes looking it over and thinking about it and every field that I thought would be a good addition was easily covered under the “notes” section. Thank you for adding this page!

I know that this review was much shorter and somewhat less detailed than my last one. For that, I apologize. I skipped all of the pages that remained the same – even if there was an extra page of them added in. Overall, I think that booklet is pretty solid. I think you have done a great job man!

Thanks for again giving me the opportunity to see your work!

Also, I have been playing for a while now but just not had the time to transfer my character over to your booklet and try it out. I have a session planned this weekend so if I get time before then, I will transfer my character to the booklet and at least try it out for a game session. Just forewarning, I will only use the pages that apply to my character (as I am sure you intended). If I have a chance to transfer it and test it out, I will let you know how I think it turned out in play.

Yes, LoT=Length of Trance. Animals are -4 on all saves.

I also added several things from my games I thought to be of importance. Like:faith points and foci..


Cheers all.