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Posted: **Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:06 pm**

what would be the damage on a 4 gauge shotgun be.

Posted: **Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:45 am**

the shell size

Posted: **Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:47 pm**

Unless it is a very low pressure shell, try more like a PS Of, you aren't going to do it.

You are firing a quarter pound shell at a couple of hundred meters per second. Someone like Andre the Giant might handle the recoil, anybody short of 200+lbs of muscle is just going to be knocked silly and probably have a cracked collar bone as well.

Posted: **Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:32 am**

onetodie wrote:a 4 gauge measures over 1 inch bore diameter. I would think the damage should be close to 1d6 x 10 SDC... Probably need a PS requirement to wield that monster effectively as well, minimum 15?

I think it might be more like 1d4x10, maybe with some sort of extra kick, like +5 or something.

I played around with finding different gauge damages in the Rifts forum, and here's what I came up with:
It's for Rifts, so there's fancy shells and MD rounds, and 12 gauge was listed earlier in the thread, so it's not in this clip.

Here are other shotgun ammunition types for various kinds of shotguns.
This was quite a bit of work, and I might have screwed up in places. If any of the numbers seem off to you, please let me know.

.410 Bore Ammunition:
Taser Slug: 1 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 15 seconds. 60' range.
Buckshot*: 1d4 SDC to a 10' radius, 2d4 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 1d4-2 SDC per melee round, 1d4 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 2 rounds. 400' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 1d6 SDC, 2d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 1d6 SDC, 2d6 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 5 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 12, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 2d4+1 SDC, 3d6 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 2d6 SDC to soft targets, 4d6 for a double-blast. 70' range. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects).
Solid Slug*: 2d4+1 SDC, 3d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 2d6 SDC to soft targets, 4d6 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects). CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 3d6 SDC, 6d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor Piercing Rocket Slug*: 2d6 SDC, 4d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 2d6+3 SDC to a 6' radius, or 5d6 to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 1d4-1 MD to a 5' radius, or 1d6 MD to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 70' blast of flame. 1d4-1 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 20% chance of flammables igniting. 2d4 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 45% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 1d6 SDC, plus a 20% chance of igniting flammables. 2d6 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 40% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 1d6 MD to target, or 2d6 to a 3' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.

28 Gauge Ammunition:
Taser Slug: 1 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 30 seconds. 65' range.
Buckshot*: 1d4+1 SDC to a 10' radius, 1d10 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 1d4 SDC per melee round, 2d4 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 2 rounds. 450' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 2d4+1 SDC, 3d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 2d4+1 SDC, 3d6 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 5 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 12, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 1d10 SDC, 2d10 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 3d6 SDC to soft targets, 6d6 for a double-blast. 75' range. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects).
Solid Slug*: 2d6 SDC, 4d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 4d4 SDC to soft targets, 5d6 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects). CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 2d10 SDC, 1d4x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor Piercing Rocket Slug*: 4d4 SDC, 5d6+2 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 3d6+2 SDC to a 6' radius, or 1d4x10 to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 1d4+1 MD to a 5' radius, or 1d10 MD to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 75' blast of flame. 1d4 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 25% chance of flammables igniting. 2d4 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 55% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 2d4 SDC, plus a 30% chance of igniting flammables. 4d6 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 65% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 2d4+1 MD to target, or 3d6 to a 3' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.

20 Gauge Ammunition:
Pepper Blast:
Tear Gas:
Rubber Slug: 1d4-3 SDC, 1d4-2 SDC for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Rock Salt: 1d4-2 SDC to a 10' radius, 1d6 SDC to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Taser Slug: 2 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 30 seconds. 65' range.
Buckshot*: 1d6 SDC to a 10' radius, 2d6 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 1d6 SDC per melee round, 2d6 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 1d4-1 rounds. 500' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 1d10 SDC, 2d10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 1d10 SDC, 2d10 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 5 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 12, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 2d6 SDC, 4d6 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 2d10 SDC to soft targets, 1d4x10 for a double-blast. 75' range. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects).
Solid Slug*: 4d4 SDC, 5d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 3d6+2 SDC to soft targets, 1d4x10 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects). CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 5d6 SDC, 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor Piercing Rocket Slug*: 4d6 SDC, 1d4x10+5 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 6d6 SDC to a 6' radius, or 1d6x10+10 to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 1d6 MD to a 5' radius, or 2d6 MD to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 75' blast of flame. 1d6 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 30% chance of flammables igniting. 2d6 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 65% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 1d10 SDC, plus a 35% chance of igniting flammables. 2d10 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 75% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 1d10 MD to a 3' diameter, or 2d10 to a 6' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.

16 Gauge Ammunition:
Pepper Blast:
Tear Gas:
Rubber Slug: 1d4-2 SDC, 1d4 SDC for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Rock Salt: 1d4 SDC to a 10' radius, 2d4 SDC to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Taser Slug: 2 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 30 seconds. 65' range.
Buckshot*: 2d4 SDC to a 10' radius, 4d4 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 2d4 SDC per melee round, 4d4 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 1d4 rounds. 500' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 2d6 SDC, 4d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 2d6 SDC, 4d6 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 5 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 12, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 4d4 SDC, 5d6+2 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 5d6 SDC to soft targets, 1d6x10 for a double-blast. 75' range. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects).
Solid Slug*: 3d6+2 SDC, 1d4x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 5d6 SDC to soft targets, 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including MDC creatures and objects). CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 5d6 SDC, 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor Piercing Rocket Slug*: 6d6 SDC, 1d6x10+10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 1d4x10 SDC to a 6' radius, or 2d4x10 to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 2d4 MD to a 5' radius, or 4d6 MD to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 75' blast of flame. 2d4 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 35% chance of flammables igniting. 4d4 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 75% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 2d6 SDC, plus a 40% chance of igniting flammables. 4d6 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 85% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 2d6 MD to a 3' diameter, or 4d6 to a 6' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.

12 Gauge Ammunition
(already posted)

10 Gauge Ammunition:
Pepper Blast:
Tear Gas:
Rubber Slug: 1d6 SDC, 2d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Rock Salt: 1d8 SDC to a 10' radius, 2d8 SDC to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Taser Slug: 1d6 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 30 seconds. 65' range.
Buckshot*: 2d8 SDC to a 10' radius, 4d6 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 2d8 SDC per melee round, 5d6+2 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 1d4+1 rounds. 500' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 4d6 SDC, 8d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 4d6 SDC, 8d6 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 5 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 12, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 5d6+2 SDC, 1d6x10 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 8d6 SDC, 2d4x10+10 for a double-blast. 75' range.
Solid Slug*: 6d6 SDC, 1d6x10+10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 1d6x10 SDC to soft targets, 2d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including Mega-Damage creatures and objects). CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 1d6x10 SDC, 2d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor Piercing Rocket Slug*: 1d4x10+10 SDC, 2d4x10+10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 2d6x10 SDC to a 6' radius, or 4d6x10 to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 2d8 MD to a 5' radius, or 4d6 MD to a 10' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 75' blast of flame. 2d8 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 45% chance of flammables igniting. 5d6+2 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 88% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 4d6 SDC, plus a 50% chance of igniting flammables. 8d6 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 90% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 4d6 MD to a 3' diameter, or 1d4x10+5 MD to a 6' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.

8 Gauge Ammunition:
Pepper Blast:
Tear Gas:
Rubber Slug: 2d4+1 SDC, 3d6 SDC for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Rock Salt: 1d10 SDC to a 10' radius, 2d10 SDC to a 18' radius for a double-blast. CR 10 for a box of 50.
Taser Slug: 1d8 SDC, plus save vs. non-lethal poison or be incapacitated for 30 seconds. 70' range.
Buckshot*: 3d6 SDC to a 10' radius, 6d6 to a 15' radius for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flare: 3d6 SDC per melee round, 6d6 SDC per melee round for a double-blast. Burns for 1d6 rounds. 500' range. CR 10 per flare.
Light Shot*: 5d6 SDC, 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 50 for a box of 50.
Flechettes*: 5d6 SDC, 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. Punches through the top 7 points of an AR for soft armor. For example, if a target has an AR of 14, the flechette rounds would only need a strike roll of 8 or better.
Standard Shot*: 6d6 SDC, 1d6x10+10 for a double-blast. CR 25 for a box of 50 shells.
Strung-Buck (Bolo)*: 1d6x10 SDC, 2d6x10 for a double-blast. 75' range.
Solid Slug*: 1d4x10 SDC, 2d4x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 75 for a box of 50.
Buck & Ball*: Shell contains a fragmenting slug as well as some buckshot. 2d4x10 SDC to soft targets, 2d6x10 +20 SDC for a double-blast. 1/2 damage against hard targets (including Mega-Damage creatures and objects). CR 90 for a box of 50.
Rocket Slug*: 2d4x10 SDC, 4d4x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 125 for a box of 50.
Armor Piercing Rocket Slug*: 1d6x10 SDC, 2d6x10 SDC for a double-blast. CR 200 for a box of 50.
Explosive Shells (SDC): 4d4x10 SDC to a 7' radius, or 5d6x10 to a 12' radius for a double-blast. CR 250 for a box of 50 shells.
Explosive Shells (Frag)*: 3d6 MD to a 6' radius, or 6d6 MD to a 12' radius for a double-blast. CR 140 per shell.
Little Dragon (Incendiary): Shoots a 75' blast of flame. 3d6 SDC to everything in the blast (3' radius), plus 5% chance of flammables igniting. 5d6+2 SDC to everything in the blast (6' radius) per double-blast, plus 95% chance of flammables igniting.
Dragon Spit (Incendiary): Slug ignites on impact. 5d6 SDC, plus a 55% chance of igniting flammables. 1d6x10 SDC for a double-blast, plus a 95% chance of igniting flammables.
Big Dragon (Plasma): 5d6 MD to a 3' diameter, or 1d6x10 MD to a 6' diameter for a double blast. CR 175 per shell.

*Available as silver rounds. 1/2 range, x2 damage to vampires, x3 price.

I based the damages as much as possible on stuff in the books, and kind of intuited the rest.
So take it for what it's worth.

Posted: **Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:06 pm**

That's a nice list KC....

Since we are on the topic of odd shotgun shell round types, what kind of damage would a 40 mm Canister Round fired from an M-203 do?

Posted: **Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:11 am**

jedi078 wrote:That's a nice list KC....

Since we are on the topic of odd shotgun shell round types, what kind of damage would a 40 mm Canister Round fired from an M-203 do?

M203 canister rounds are equivlent to a 12 gauge shotgun. Or at least the shot mass an velocity are similar to a low recoil 12 gauge round.

Posted: **Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:20 pm**

jedi078 wrote:That's a nice list KC....

Since we are on the topic of odd shotgun shell round types, what kind of damage would a 40 mm Canister Round fired from an M-203 do?

Whew.
No real idea there.

Posted: **Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:07 pm**

For those who have it "After the Bomb 2nd" has stats for 4 Gauge Shotguns (pg. 157).

Posted: **Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:54 am**

Killer Cyborg wrote:
jedi078 wrote:That's a nice list KC....

Since we are on the topic of odd shotgun shell round types, what kind of damage would a 40 mm Canister Round fired from an M-203 do?

Whew.
No real idea there.

The 40mm Canister round should do about 4D6 damage as the 40mm M576E1 multiple projectile round fires 20 #4buckshot at 883 feet per second while a M257 shotshell loaded with 27 #4 buckshot pellets at 1,335 feet per second....for 4D6 damage. The real issue with the 40mm round is it's very short range and massive spread of it's projectiles.

Posted: **Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:20 pm**

buckshot 40mm rounds are really best for corridor clearing or trench clearing. Not for any kind of ranged work. They were originally developed for the M79 in Vietnam when it was the sole weapon issued to infantrymen as a way for them to have close in weapons fire available to them.

Not very healthy trying to put an HEDP 40mm round in to someone's face at 10 paces. At least not healthy to you (rarely healthy to the other person no matter the distance at which you are trying to hit them...unless of course it is beyond the range of the weapon).

Cannister rounds aren't all that wonderful an idea for an M203. The rifle it is attached too is a better weapon for most work that you'd consider a cannister round for.

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:03 pm**

Guys it gets to the point where you don't have a shotgun but a swivelgun loaded up with Grapeshot.

Now if i am going to go really low tech I am a fan of having 4X4 pickup trucks with a 1:1 mix of gattling guns and swivel guns packing grapeshot... plus a few home made incenedary weapons handy. Something along the lines of greek fire.

Posted: **Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:25 pm**

Shawn Merrow wrote:For those who have it "After the Bomb 2nd" has stats for 4 Gauge Shotguns (pg. 157).

Did one of the writers stat up the Russian KS-23 Special Carbine?

Posted: **Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:35 pm**

Mantisking wrote:
Shawn Merrow wrote:For those who have it "After the Bomb 2nd" has stats for 4 Gauge Shotguns (pg. 157).

Did one of the writers stat up the Russian KS-23 Special Carbine?

Nope, the one in the book is a double barrel design and don't think its based on any real world model.

Posted: **Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:33 pm**

Shawn Merrow wrote:For those who have it "After the Bomb 2nd" has stats for 4 Gauge Shotguns (pg. 157).

Mantisking wrote:Did one of the writers stat up the Russian KS-23 Special Carbine?

Shawn Merrow wrote:Nope, the one in the book is a double barrel design and don't think its based on any real world model.

Any chance you could post the damage stats for the 4 gauge then, so I can stat up the KS-23 without buying the book?

Posted: **Thu May 19, 2011 1:06 pm**

Mantisking wrote:
Shawn Merrow wrote:For those who have it "After the Bomb 2nd" has stats for 4 Gauge Shotguns (pg. 157).
Mantisking wrote:Did one of the writers stat up the Russian KS-23 Special Carbine?
Shawn Merrow wrote:Nope, the one in the book is a double barrel design and don't think its based on any real world model.

Any chance you could post the damage stats for the 4 gauge then, so I can stat up the KS-23 without buying the book?

That's what the folks selling the books love to hear.

Posted: **Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:16 am**

Hi i was looking for the thread with the 12 gauge rounds, but keep getting the 'you cannot edit this thread' message is there another link, i tried a search but came up with nothing.
Any help would be appreciated
Thanks

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