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Yes...I have a general rule about such things. A character can link two powers together or otherwise customize powers, as long as they do not actually improve the power significantly by doing so. For Example, I created a character with linked Sensory Orb and Hyperdensity. the character would turn hyperdense only while the sensor orb was out, and the sensory orb was limited to the time they were hyperdense.

Actually, Bio-Aura is allowable when using an APS power. The reason Bio-Aura exists is so you don't burn your clothes off or have them drop to the ground when you turn into water or mist.

The only hard rule I have on this is that you cannot use 2 APS powers at the same time. No metal and fire (even though it sounds cool), or water and gel, or anything like that. If the power says APS, you can't use more than 1 of them at a time.

And I'm not sure why you'd impose a penalty on the use of APS Metal and Shrinking at the same time. That's actually a cool concept, and there's nothing in the book that I can see that would disallow the use of both at once.

It is listed in the main book, the rule I mean.

yea, if they create a cool concept and dont unbalance the game then i dont see a problem with it

I have a character thats like the APS fire and Bio Armor you have but with APS fire and Matter Expulsion metal.

I made is so that everytime she changed into her mystically bestowed form she has the metal skin (from the ME Metal power) surrounding her fire form. The fire leaks out the eyes and joints and still creates the heat field around the metal so that she gets a dual AR. 14 from the fire and 17 from the metal. she gets a few power stunts from it. flaming metal projectiles are the main ones. due to being mega she's vulnerable to cold

I also did APS water and Sub Zero, the character could freeze its fists when punching to do more damage, freeze water bolts in mid are to create spears, make ice body weapons, and cover an opponent with water then freeze it. and this was just a few power stunts to come out of this combo

The energy conversion and APS Energy or Super energy expulsion energy or really any of the energy powers would allow the character to project any type of energy, its still undecided if this power can be used with Illusions to make the illusion of energy into actual energy....

1. I apologize. I read Bio-Armor and saw Bio-Aura. The 2 are completely different, and I should really open my eyes.

2. I read the rules on combining powers again, and I do see Shrink listed. And I completely disagree with that. So the book says that you can't be a small ball of fire or a large hulking water monster? You can't become a walking lycanthropic pool of lava? Poppycock. I can see where you couldn't be 2 different substances at once. Say, Fire and Water. But to completely limit these abilities in this way is hogwash. I used handwavium to correct it by saying that you cannot use 2 or more APS powers at once. Then again, I have yet to see a PC in one of my campaigns that has more than 1 APS power.

I don't understand what the problem is with that combination. I read through both powers, and I don't see where the issue would be. Could the guy shrink to small size, turn plasma, and then touch someone who didn't know they were there and do damage to them because he is a plasma being? Yes. Good NPCs and PCs wouldn't use that trick as it is generally a bad thing to do to someone. How many good guys attack someone who doesn't know they are there?

And along those lines, would you allow someone with Shrink and Hyperdensity? Think about this for a moment: Someone stands on a table, goes hyperdense, and then shrinks down to small size. They jump off the table, picking up speed on the way down and crash into the floor. Thanks to hyperdensity, they would impact with the floor (or, god forbid, someone lying on the floor) with much greater force than if they were just themselves. You could potentially have the effect of a concrete block impacting a glass window, with crap splintering and flying everywhere when the small, hyperdense character hits the floor. Would you disallow this power combination now?

If you start limiting what powers can and cannot be used together, then you at least have to remain consistent. Go through all the powers and list those that alter the character and turn them into something else. Then think about combinations you have used, or other characters have used, that violates that list. I'm sure you'll find that once you do that, the list becomes stupid.

Again, I just limit it to APS powers as you cannot possibly be stone and water at the same time. But a monstrous werewolf tentacled being of fire? Why not?

Severus: you can not move while hyperdense, and generally not use any other powers either. Oddly enough, your weight is not listed as increased either.

Correct. But there is nothing stating that if you shrink, jump off the object, and use hyperdensity in mid-air that you'll go back to being completely normal size either.

True enough, if you are talking weight retained shrinking, and jumped off say the Empire State Building, when you hit the ground in a hyperdense form you would do a lot of damage.

I'm similar to Max. I'll allow anything , cause its supposed to be a game of creativity. THe more restricting we become, the less creativeness people are granted.

I'll work around any crazy combo the players can create, and I as a GM since i allow them crazy, I create crazy things myself.

ALso Severus i do want to point out one thing, while 2 APS powers dont ever seem to work, there are a few actually decent combinations. And 1 official Palladium made character... Kelvin from Century Station. He has 2 APS powers simultanously active.

But otherwise my only rule is to use Logic.. As in no contradicting powers unless you have a good history on how they work.

As long as it always works both ways...that is any trick you can pull a player could also do. Nothing is more annoying to a player than people who selectively alter the rules to favor themselves.

I dont see the problem with flaming or electric stone, crystal, metal, liquid metal, or even energy. Remember, APS fire and electricity dont change the character into these forces, it just surrounds them with it and allows them to expel it. Even flaming ice wouldnt be a problem with a little creativity. Make the fire burn cold instead of hot and they go together perfectly.

now i do see logical problem with APS fire or electricity and Liquid or rubber as these are naturally opposed. Same with APS shadow and light. Same thing.

but APS Bone or lychanthropy would most likely work with any combo as it would just add SDC, a new form, and minor body weapons.

Max™ wrote:You want a nasty book legal combo?

Gravity Well + Gravity Control.

Why is that far worse than any combo mentioned in this thread?

How would you like to experience a 50 G collision? That's like going from 50 mph to 0 mph in a fraction of a second.

Now how would you like to be able to make ANYONE do that, no saving throw, no dodge... just "knock knock", "who's there?", "50 G's of acceleration", "50 Ghrrk"-WHUMP!

Yes, yes, we are all well aware of your love for this combo. But I'll take Nimmy's multiple selves/mimic trick he pulled a while back. Search the forums and you'll find the topic.

Max™ wrote:You want a nasty book legal combo?

Gravity Well + Gravity Control.

Why is that far worse than any combo mentioned in this thread?

How would you like to experience a 50 G collision? That's like going from 50 mph to 0 mph in a fraction of a second.

Now how would you like to be able to make ANYONE do that, no saving throw, no dodge... just "knock knock", "who's there?", "50 G's of acceleration", "50 Ghrrk"-WHUMP!

I think we've locked horns over that before.

Gravity control prevents the use of other gravity powers, so hardly 'book legal'.

also, we disagree on the physics. a lot.

Batts

Her0man0 wrote:I dont see the problem with flaming or electric stone, crystal, metal, liquid metal, or even energy. Remember, APS fire and electricity dont change the character into these forces, it just surrounds them with it and allows them to expel it. Even flaming ice wouldnt be a problem with a little creativity. Make the fire burn cold instead of hot and they go together perfectly.

now i do see logical problem with APS fire or electricity and Liquid or rubber as these are naturally opposed. Same with APS shadow and light. Same thing.

but APS Bone or lychanthropy would most likely work with any combo as it would just add SDC, a new form, and minor body weapons.

I will have to look, but I thought APS fire really turned you into fire. Not sure about the electricity one off the top of my head.

It gives a fiery AR and hurts when touched but no intangibility like fire and electricity should have, like APS energy or light do have, its been mentioned on the threads before and their have been alternate powers created that do give the intangibility

Overkill wrote:The rules are there to break. Can't use 2 APS powers at once huh? How about 'Kelvin' from Century Station (pgs 190-191) He has both APS Fire & APS Ice. Half his body is Ice while the other is Fire or he appears to be covered in ice-blue flame. A book written NPC. The simple book given explenation is; paraphrased: 'No one knows how he does it, but he can.'


Just saw an earlier post that stated the same thing. Missed it earlier. The argument stands though.

I'm aware of Kelvin and his non-book legal use of his APS powers. My question on that is: Wasn't Century Station published before HU2 came out? If so, then this is one of those things where the NPC was created with rules that are no longer valid. And in this case, I'd simply apply a liberal coating of handwavium to eliminate his ability to do so.

Generally speaking, you cannot use 2 APS powers at the same time. I don't agree with some of the other stuff around this (like no shrink, or bio-armor, or lyncanthropy, or that stuff at the same time), but this one I do. Why? Because you cannot physically be both water and stone at the same time. And there are enough APS powers where you can say "I want to be metal and liquid, so I'll just take Mercury" or something like that. But you cannot be physically made up of more than 1 substance at one time.

And now, I'll let someone come in and explain that human beings are already made up of multiple substances (like water, oxygen, nitrogen, proteins, etc.), so why shouldn't we be allowed to use more than 1 APS power at one time. Calgon, take me away!

What planet?

Rhomphaia wrote:

Max™ wrote:
Superluminal Flight + Hyperdensity, "whoops, where did that planet go?"

AlanGunhouse wrote:What planet?

No, I think that's about the conversation that would happen.

Yeah, that is what I meant it to be.

Severus Snape wrote:

Max™ wrote:You want a nasty book legal combo?

Gravity Well + Gravity Control.

Why is that far worse than any combo mentioned in this thread?

How would you like to experience a 50 G collision? That's like going from 50 mph to 0 mph in a fraction of a second.

Now how would you like to be able to make ANYONE do that, no saving throw, no dodge... just "knock knock", "who's there?", "50 G's of acceleration", "50 Ghrrk"-WHUMP!

Yes, yes, we are all well aware of your love for this combo. But I'll take Nimmy's multiple selves/mimic trick he pulled a while back. Search the forums and you'll find the topic.

Someone spent the PPE to activate the circle - Summoning Circle: Deific Being - NMI ???
One Man Army

Severus Snape wrote:

Overkill wrote:The rules are there to break. Can't use 2 APS powers at once huh? How about 'Kelvin' from Century Station (pgs 190-191) He has both APS Fire & APS Ice. Half his body is Ice while the other is Fire or he appears to be covered in ice-blue flame. A book written NPC. The simple book given explenation is; paraphrased: 'No one knows how he does it, but he can.'


Just saw an earlier post that stated the same thing. Missed it earlier. The argument stands though.

I'm aware of Kelvin and his non-book legal use of his APS powers. My question on that is: Wasn't Century Station published before HU2 came out? If so, then this is one of those things where the NPC was created with rules that are no longer valid. And in this case, I'd simply apply a liberal coating of handwavium to eliminate his ability to do so.

Generally speaking, you cannot use 2 APS powers at the same time. I don't agree with some of the other stuff around this (like no shrink, or bio-armor, or lyncanthropy, or that stuff at the same time), but this one I do. Why? Because you cannot physically be both water and stone at the same time. And there are enough APS powers where you can say "I want to be metal and liquid, so I'll just take Mercury" or something like that. But you cannot be physically made up of more than 1 substance at one time.

And now, I'll let someone come in and explain that human beings are already made up of multiple substances (like water, oxygen, nitrogen, proteins, etc.), so why shouldn't we be allowed to use more than 1 APS power at one time. Calgon, take me away!

Only referring to the bold.. Everyone has their playstyles and GM styles so arguing about the APS powers is gonna be a moot point. Cause some of the APS powers came from people combining other APS's already to achieve that substance. (ie: Liquid/Metal = Mercury, Water/Earth=Mud, etc etc) just comes down to how it sounds when presented.

But as for the Bold, no Hu2 came out before Century station, so the rule for dual APS came after the original "rule" . And i only write "rule" like that cause to me the book of "rules" is just a set of guidelines on how to help create a gaming world.

Though to think about, i wonder if the Dual APS powers character Kelvin was tossed in there to make people think a little more outside the box to see what other crazyness they can create.

I got a few ideas of cool power uses from the mighty avengers cartoon the other night, this guy named Gravity (no conversion) was just sick, the way he used his gravity power was nothing like HU but it did give me some ideas

Gravity + Force manipulation

obvious uses are to decrease the weight of something to pick it up then increase it when dropping it on someone but what about the ground, make a 30ft circle of earth weightless about 30ft down and use force manipulation to lift it, the question is if the strength of force manipulation would be enough to separate it from the ground around it. If so, then a character could have large boulders to throw, or create towers of earth

make a boulder or car weightless then chuck it at someone, when it hits the end of the gravity circle it would get its weight back, then its a question of inertia....

With flight, a villain could make an airplane or helicopter weigh alot more, this could be devastating even if only for a few seconds

make the roof of a building weightless then rip it off with force manipulation

I guess all of these could be done with the weight manipulation + force manipulation combo too

Avenger's Earth's Mightiest Warriors? that one.. if so then i wanna see that episode, cause that sounds rather awesome, and shouldnt let my brother read your post... He likes those powers, but has yet to take them together. lol

yea the new one, i guess its earths mightiest warriors, it has iron man, thor, and hulk in it

i think it was the first episode because Shields super prisons were all disabled and like 72 villains got loose along with the hulk who was being kept in one, it also has the creation of doc sampson and the first time the avengers all fight together and its all to bring down this Gravity guy who uses his power to lift Manhattan into the air, i havnt seen this kind of an abuse of a superpower since Magneto.

if your a fan of marvel than this is a must see

Her0man0 wrote:yea the new one, i guess its earths mightiest warriors, it has iron man, thor, and hulk in it

i think it was the first episode because Shields super prisons were all disabled and like 72 villains got loose along with the hulk who was being kept in one, it also has the creation of doc sampson and the first time the avengers all fight together and its all to bring down this Gravity guy who uses his power to lift Manhattan into the air, i havnt seen this kind of an abuse of a superpower since Magneto.

if your a fan of marvel than this is a must see

sweet, imma have to check youtube or anime44 or soemthing. that sounds freaking awesome.

Actually, Graviton did something quite similar in his original appearance in the comics

AlanGunhouse wrote:Actually, Graviton did something quite similar in his original appearance in the comics

He's probably one of the most powerful characters Marvel's ever depicted, and his effectiveness as a threat was only hindered by his general lack of practice and insight into his powers (fairly ironic given he was a genius physicist whose Teleportation experiment was the reason he ended up becoming Graviton after teleporting himself into someone's graviton experiment). They ramped him up enough with some actual practice and training that he became really too powerful a threat to justify his later defeats in some cases. The only guy I can remember matching some of his feats (namely the levitating of a large number of cubic miles of land mass) was a Herald of Galactus which ought to tell you something.

Sort of game-breaking, but cool and it fit a concept, was "Mini-Ball" (named after an infamous Civil-War era ammunition type). The character had APS: Metal, Sonic Flight and Shrinking. I made the judgment, that due to his concept, he could use the APS: Metal and Shrinking together without a problem

Couldn't you have made it book-legal (and, in some ways, even scarier) by just combining Invulnerability with Sonic Flight and Shrinking?

Nightmask wrote:

AlanGunhouse wrote:Actually, Graviton did something quite similar in his original appearance in the comics

He's probably one of the most powerful characters Marvel's ever depicted, and his effectiveness as a threat was only hindered by his general lack of practice and insight into his powers (fairly ironic given he was a genius physicist whose Teleportation experiment was the reason he ended up becoming Graviton after teleporting himself into someone's graviton experiment). They ramped him up enough with some actual practice and training that he became really too powerful a threat to justify his later defeats in some cases. The only guy I can remember matching some of his feats (namely the levitating of a large number of cubic miles of land mass) was a Herald of Galactus which ought to tell you something.

There was Molecule Man, who dropped a mountain range on the heroes during the secret wars.

AlanGunhouse wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

AlanGunhouse wrote:Actually, Graviton did something quite similar in his original appearance in the comics

He's probably one of the most powerful characters Marvel's ever depicted, and his effectiveness as a threat was only hindered by his general lack of practice and insight into his powers (fairly ironic given he was a genius physicist whose Teleportation experiment was the reason he ended up becoming Graviton after teleporting himself into someone's graviton experiment). They ramped him up enough with some actual practice and training that he became really too powerful a threat to justify his later defeats in some cases. The only guy I can remember matching some of his feats (namely the levitating of a large number of cubic miles of land mass) was a Herald of Galactus which ought to tell you something.

There was Molecule Man, who dropped a mountain range on the heroes during the secret wars.

Well when he's not being nerfed by idiot writers that's chump change, since just a few issues later he ripped over 2 BILLION tons of land mass out of his way with a thought sending it miles into the vacuum of space just to have words with Doom, and once he had his mental blocks removed rebuilt an entire galaxy shortly afterwords. He's in the range of the Living Tribunal or above in power, but nice to see someone remembers when he was written properly rather than being treated to the Worf Effect trope for someone's villain sue (Sentry).

Hey, he asked for seeing something SIMILAR,,,not for what he could do beyond that

Max™ wrote:http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/37499/799099-terraxisle_super.jpg

Terrax hauling Manhattan isle into space.

Molecule Man isn't as powerful as the cosmic entities, he's around the surfer's level.

Some debate on that last statement exists, but Silver Surfer is more powerful than Terrex.

Max™ wrote:http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/37499/799099-terraxisle_super.jpg

Terrax hauling Manhattan isle into space.

Molecule Man isn't as powerful as the cosmic entities, he's around the surfer's level.

Uh no, MM has been canonically referred to as the most powerful being ever and even when he first appeared was so terrifyingly powerful that Uatu the Watcher directly intervened to try and eliminate him something he didn't even do when Galactus showed up. He handily defeated the Silver Surfer and Thor simultaneously and rebuilt the entire galaxy the Beyonder erased for the first Secret Wars something even Galactus can't do and he's in the top tier of power of Marvel's cosmic entities. While he was originally a mortal the event that unleashed his powers unleashed the literally unlimited psionic potential to reshape matter and energy he possessed making him right up there when it comes to power. Which means he gets chewtoyed far too often by hack writers, hack editors, and written as completely below the level of power he's been written as having (like the absurdity of Sentry having more power over molecules than MM, serious Villain Sue moment there) by quality writers.

Molecule Man's limits chiefly exist in his mind. Given that he has only about average intellect and mental strength, that can be quite a limit.

AlanGunhouse wrote:Molecule Man's limits chiefly exist in his mind. Given that he has only about average intellect and mental strength, that can be quite a limit.

Given he rebuilt a galaxy, casually restrained a tachyon in the palm of his hand, rebuilt everything including the Rocky mountains after they were destroyed in the fight with the Beyonder and is treated with respect even by the Living Tribunal he's no where near as limited as you think. His knowledge and intellect have grown markedly since Doom lifted his mental blocks during the Secret Wars and character wise shouldn't even be shown interacting with mere mortals anymore because they should have no more chance of defeating him than they have of defeating Death or Eternity.

Severus Snape wrote:I'm aware of Kelvin and his non-book legal use of his APS powers. My question on that is: Wasn't Century Station published before HU2 came out?

Frack no.
THe ONLY book to come out before HU2 was VU.

Sir_Spirit wrote:

Severus Snape wrote:I'm aware of Kelvin and his non-book legal use of his APS powers. My question on that is: Wasn't Century Station published before HU2 came out?

Frack no.
THe ONLY book to come out before HU2 was VU.

Well, no, that is not So, I had Aliens Unlimited long before HU2 came out...

Max™ wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Max™ wrote:http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/37499/799099-terraxisle_super.jpg

Terrax hauling Manhattan isle into space.

Molecule Man isn't as powerful as the cosmic entities, he's around the surfer's level.

Uh no, MM has been canonically referred to as the most powerful being ever and even when he first appeared was so terrifyingly powerful that Uatu the Watcher directly intervened to try and eliminate him something he didn't even do when Galactus showed up. He handily defeated the Silver Surfer and Thor simultaneously and rebuilt the entire galaxy the Beyonder erased for the first Secret Wars something even Galactus can't do and he's in the top tier of power of Marvel's cosmic entities. While he was originally a mortal the event that unleashed his powers unleashed the literally unlimited psionic potential to reshape matter and energy he possessed making him right up there when it comes to power. Which means he gets chewtoyed far too often by hack writers, hack editors, and written as completely below the level of power he's been written as having (like the absurdity of Sentry having more power over molecules than MM, serious Villain Sue moment there) by quality writers.

Galactus is a manifestation of a single universe, there are quite a few levels between him and the Living Tribunal.

MM might be stupidly powerful, but he's limited by his intelligence/mental blocks/small scale/writers.

He's just a single universe level threat, that's literally nothing in the grand scheme of things.

You're seriously downplaying MM there, considering in the comics he was stated to be a threat at the multiverse level, Living Tribunal who exists to monitor the multiverse considers MM to be at this level, and he's been shown once he got time in after the Secret Wars when he fought the Beyonder doing such damage as they fought the spillover was wreaking havoc on a multiverse level. He's not contained to a single uinverse, his mental blocks are gone, he's not that stupid, and about the only point that does apply is that the writers have treated him as if he were some d-class loser like the Kangaroo rather than the cosmic power that he is.

Also Galactus isn't the representative of a single universe, that position is shared between Eternity who represents the temporal aspect of the universe and all life and Infinity who represents the spacial aspect. Galactus represents the previous universe and fills the balancing point between Eternity and Death and is necessary for the universe to continue functioning. He's also potentially a multiverse level threat since he's not contained to a single universe, such as when in the MU2 line he was set to initiate a new Big Bang in order to evolve to what he believed would be a new level free of his Hunger. The group of cosmic powers who tried to stop him (including the Living Tribunal) had LT explicitly stating that his actions were making him a threat to the Multiverse.

I am a member of a facebook thread for discussing such things, perhaps you would like to take this discussion there...it is really not an HU topic.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=gro ... 3711814046

awww. its kinda nice reading what you guys are saying. Never got into comics when i was younger so i only know a miniscule amount about the full universe and all the players in it. So reading the banter back and forth is very entertaining and informative. =)