Gaining PPE for a witch

[Nekira Sudacne]

They can, they still fall under the general men of magic rules of being able to do so. having every other OCC spell it out was just redundant, it has no impact on the standard rule.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I guess this is something NS and I will disagree.
No, Witches, like with Warlocks and Priests, can not use PPE from outside sources of PPE due to that they do not have the ability to. [Note: they do not have this ability listed in their powers listings.]
And.
These classes are also have No Knowledge about the fundamentals about PPE and magic. They can only cast the spells they are given.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Do you have a source for your disagreement?

As I said, the rules for such are listed as default to all men of magic. Lack of repittion does not mean lack of ability

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. Well, since we have a disagreement, I guess I'll chime in. I'll start by saying my first instinct was to disagree with Nekira Sudacne and say that they have no knowledge of magic and thereby can't (same as drewkitty ~..~ said). Now, that was my first instinct (and in my ways still my personal belief), but with that said I did look at the book to try and figure it out. In doing so I found this quote under "The Gift of Magic" ...

An additional 100 P.P.E. is available from the familiar who will freely give of its energy ... [snip] ... for the witch to be able to draw on it's P.P.E.

So the passage actually mentions the witch drawing on a familiar's P.P.E. Now, the argument could be made that the witch can ONLY draw on P.P.E. from the familiar (and no one else), but this isn't listed as something special (just that you can't normally draw on P.P.E. from an unwilling demon and it would also get a saving throw if you could) and no exception is listed that it ONLY works with the familiar. From this limited passage, it seems that a witch can indeed draw on P.P.E. This is limited evidence, but all I've been a ble to find one way or another so far.

Anyways, just thoguht to chime in with a book reference (the only one I can find) that gives any type of canon clue one way or the other. Hope that helps. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Under "Mental Discipline" it says that witch craft is not one of the "true " magic disciplines.

And in MoM is stats that the witch's inability to grow their PPE base is a part of the limiting factor in their pact.

I will have to say that they could get PPE through a ritual from others giving it willingly to the total ritual spell casting, or through blood sacrifice due to this would coincide with the evilness of the being they made their pact with.

But other then those circumstances, those with granted powers would unable to gain extra PPE.

Mostly my PoV comes from seeing that the witch did not develop their powers, they were just granted them through the pact they received.

[Nekira Sudacne]

But what about spellcasters likes shifters or summoners who decide to make a witch pact with some greater being because they want more power NOW

*Yes, I know shifters can already make a pact without becoming a witch, but there's already canon examples of multiclass shifters who made a full witch pact and stopped advancing as a shifter

[drewkitty ~..~]

this is where opinion would come in,
In my opinion they would remain shifters and summoners because they were already mages before they made the pact. those not mages would become witches. It could be argued that so long as the char has a class (OCC/PCC/RCC), hat they would stay that class but with the powers and abilities of the pact added on top of their class abilities and powers.

[drewkitty ~..~]

LL: I see three effects that effects all magic, and one that states the increses of the amount of ppe avalible to mages.

other sources: the text only talk about mages being able to draw PP from T&A and living beings.
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@ olaris: Mages are those who learned their craft. witches are just given the ability to use magic. [point boiled down: witches may be magic users, but they are not mages.]

[The Beast]

At the very least, both Witches and Priests should be able to use PPE from blood sacrifices and those willing to give PPE to them.

[cornholioprime]

At the very least, both Witches and Priests should be able to use PPE from blood sacrifices and those willing to give PPE to them.

I concur.

Even the most thoughtless, low IQ schlub who knows bupkiss about magic can give his or her PPE to a caster, so that logic should work in inverse, in terms of the Witch being able to scoop it up.

Also, I don't have my books, but doesn't the Harvester -yet another Witch type -ALSO have the ability to suck up PPE??

EDIT: Just thought of this to add on:

Even if one argues that a Witch knows only what its Boss gives it, why would we then go ahead assume that the same Deity/Demon/AI who is link-teaching the Witch "7th level Fireball Of Doom" wouldn't also teach him or her "First Day of Magic School: How to get PPE from Other Sources?"

[mastermesh]

I did something nasty many, many years ago as a GM. I had a magician pc actually make a pact witha demon so he got more powers. He was a power hungry character... and there was a rift opened to the greater being's home dimension in a cave under the city park... The way I worked it was that he had to save vs possession every now and then. If he succeeds it doesn't come out to feed. If the roll does not succeed, he gets possessed temporarily and he might end up in some trouble because of that... when possessed the greater being would do sacrafices, sometimes animals, sometimes humans (usually humans of the opposite sex of the character that had to be stripped and raped prior to being killed), and the temporary possession would always end right after the ppe increase... so he'd just randomly wake up and find himself standing over these dead bodies with blood everywhere, etc. Whenever he 'woke up' like this his SDC and HP were fully charged up as well as his PPE, etc.

Sometimes the police sirens would be in the distance approaching, other times not. Took a bit of deal making and changing his alignment eventually before he could get rid of this little problem. Made for some interesting role playing though. It was sort of like playing Grand Theft Auto with 5 stars before that game ever came out, lol.