Non-Lethal SAMAS

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Hystrix
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Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Hystrix »

OK, so Rifts World Book 11: Coalition War Campaign page 113 states that the CS has 3.2 million PA-06A SAMAS half of which are used by the ISS. Now, I’m not gonna argue the logistics of the CS having that many SAMAS, however, it stands to reason that the ISS has thousands upon thousands of these PA units in use.
Here’s were I’m going with this: I see no way that a PA unit like the PA-06A SAMAS is useful in a city environment were most of your criminals are SDC humans (or D-Bees). There are a few things I know about the CS:
1.) They aren’t going to slaughter there own people with mega-damage weaponry for many reasons. I’d think even a hardened criminal guilty of murder, or something wouldn’t be gunned down by cops right then and there (maybe, but not always)
2.) There is no way there are going to tear through their own fortress cities with rail guns and mini missiles, to catch some bad guys.
3.) Collatoral damage that most MD weapons cause.

This being said, I believe the CS uses somewhat non-lethal means of subduing suspects, and dissidents. Now I’m not going to go into the list of weapons that I have that are non-lethal, but I am going to present you with one thing…

Non-Lethal SAMAS Power Armor
I didn't want to put out every detail of the old SAm here. Full details on the PA-06A are on WB11: CWC pp. 113-114.
The basic design to use a SAMAS as riot deterrent has been with the CS for over 20 years, but it has seen a revamp in the last five years. With the CS military using newly designed power armor, the ISS has inherited thousands upon thousands of old style SAMs. A number of these have been refitted and used a crowd control/ police power armor unit.

The basic design of the old SAM remains unchanged except for a gun turret mounted over the right shoulder. The Turret replaces to C-40, and it’s cumbersome ammo drum, making the Riot SAMAS lighter and more versatile in city environment. The gun turret currently has two different designs: a rubber baton turret, and an experimental web/net firing cannon. In addition most Riot SAMAS have been issued the old C-14 Firebreather as a main weapon. This gives the unit an MD weapon to use and also the grenade launcher can be used with tear gas, flash bang, and smoke grenades for crowd control. The mini missile launcher on the left arm can also fire smoke, and fire retardant missiles.

The idea is that the use of the old SAM inside a fortress city would be harmful to both the infrastructure and the civilian population, has prompted the refitting of thousands of these power armor units.

Nickname: Riot SAMAS, or Riot Ranger SAM
Model Type: PA-06NL
Class: Strategic Armor Military Assault Suit
Crew: One
M.D.C. by Location:
Shoulder Wings (2) — 50 each
Main Rear Jets (2) — 60 each
Lower Maneuvering Jets (2; small) — 25 each
Forearm Mini-Missile Launcher (1; left) — 50
NEW - Shoulder gun turret - 50 for the baton turret, 65 for the web cannon
Hands (2) — 25 each
Arms (2) — 50 each
Legs (2) — 100 each
Head — 70
Main Body — 250

Speed: Unchanged.
Flying Range: Unchanged.
Underwater Capabilities: Unchanged.

Statistical Data
Height: 8 feet (2.4 m)
Width: Wings down, 3.5 feet (1.06 m)
Wings extended, 10 feet (3 m)
Length: 4 feet, 6 inches (1.4 m)
Weight: 340 lbs (153 kg) without rail gun. Unchanged, however the PA-06NL dosn't use a rail gun, and instead uses a lighter weapon system, making the overall weight less.
Physical Strength: Equal to a P.S. 30
Cargo: None
Power System: Nuclear, average SAMAS energy life is 20 years.
Black Market Cost: 1.8 million credits for a new, undamaged, fully powered suit with new and experimental non-lethal weapons package. Rarely available.
Weapon Systems
1. C-14 Fire Breather Rifle. The grenade portion of this rifle is used for tear gas, and smoke. The C-14 is the standard issue for the PA-06NL. Just like the PA-06A SAMAS, the C-14 has been stockpiled and replaced. Weapons now enjoy a home with the ISS. Its versatility can be used for both lethal and non-lethal force. Some ISS units are issued the CP-50 Dragonfire. See WB11: Coalition War Campaign pp. 89-97 for the C-14, CP-50 and other weapons used by the CS.
2. (Optional) CNL-440 Baton gun. A automatic rifle that fires rubber batons to subdue dissidents, or for crowd control. The idea is for the weapon to cause pain (in an effort to get the subject to surrender), but not do any actual harm. The design came from a collaborative effort with the New German Republic who uses such weapons in some of its riot control designs.
Primary Purpose: Non-Lethal capture
Secondary Purpose: Riot Control
Weight: Gun: 20 lbs ammo drum: 30 lbs
Damage: A single round dose 1D4 SDC. Plus the round has a 50% chance of knocking its target off their feet.
Rate of Fire: Equal to number of combined hand to hand attacks
Maximum Effective Range: 1000 feet
Payload: 1000 round drum. A second drum can be hooked to the undercarriage of the rocket jets, but first the used drum must be manually removed by another SAMAS or character. Reloading a drum will take about 5 minutes for those not trained, but a mere one minute by somebody trained in the use of SAMAS power armor.
3. (Optional ) CNL- 480 Web Dispenser. An extremely experimental piece of equipment still in the testing phase.
Primary Purpose: Capture
Weight: 24 lbs, with a supply drum that weighs about 40 lbs.
Damage: None. A blast from this weapon creates a sticky web like substance that can aid in capturing criminals. A blast from this weapon is enough to tangle up one (or two, if there are standing very close) person who will have to cut there way out (webbing has approx 10 MDC requiring a vibro blade to cut)
Range: 200 feet.
Rate of Fire: Standard
Payload: enough for about 100 shots.
4. CM-2 Rocket Launcher. The forearm not used to operate the rail gun, usually the left, is armed with a simple, two rocket, mini-missile launcher. On the PA-06NL the rockets used are very rarely the lethal variety. However, this weapon system is essentially unchanged.
5. Energy Rifles. The Riot SAMAS is small enough that it can use any of the standard infantry weapons from pistols and vibro-blades to rifles. However, outside of the C-14 and the CP-50, the use of this model is reserved for police efforts and military grade weapons are not usually used.
6. SDC weapons such as 12 gauge shotguns are also used depending on the situation. SDC weapons are used in favor of MD weapons especially in the city type environment.
7. Hand to Hand Combat. Rather than use a weapon, the pilot can engage in mega-damage hand to hand combat. See Basic and Elite Power Armor Combat Training on page 45 of the Rifts® RPG for combat bonuses.
8. Sensor Systems - Unchanged.


Thoughts?
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by keir451 »

Not bad! The only gripe I have is the shoulder mounted weapons turret, how does it fit on the intake vent? I might take a page from the Bandito Arms SMAS and install the weapon on one of the forearms instead, having it fire rubber bullets or the net. The missiles can also be used to deploy a glue that hardens and traps its target.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Dustin Fireblade »

It doesn't look like a bad concept at all.

So just to clarify - the Web Dispenser - this shoots a chemical goo?

The baton gun ammo seems excessive.

Other than that perhaps some sort of neural mace as standard?
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Hystrix »

Dustin Fireblade wrote:It doesn't look like a bad concept at all.

So just to clarify - the Web Dispenser - this shoots a chemical goo?

The baton gun ammo seems excessive.

Other than that perhaps some sort of neural mace as standard?


Yeah the web dispencer needs more work. It's chemical, yes.

The baton gun ammo was a guess. It's power armor, so it's more because it CAN hold all that ammo. maybe it should be more like 200 rounds...

I thought about the neural mace, but melee combat and SAMAS dosn't really fit. Though, it could be used... The idea was for it to use stuff that non-powered armor troops couldn't...
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Hystrix »

keir451 wrote:Not bad! The only gripe I have is the shoulder mounted weapons turret, how does it fit on the intake vent? I might take a page from the Bandito Arms SMAS and install the weapon on one of the forearms instead, having it fire rubber bullets or the net. The missiles can also be used to deploy a glue that hardens and traps its target.


Well, I'm no artist. I have an idea in my head of how it would work. Maybe a arm mounted weapon would be better...
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by jaymz »

interesting.....not bad at all.

I'd suggest dropping the baton ammo a bit and removing the shoulder turret (like Keir suggested above) and placing the weapon on the forearm. In fact you could put a Laser/GL combo (the Laser would be tied to the units powerplant and the GL could be belt fed) on one forearm since you are looking at infantry sized version of the weapons anyway, eliminating the need for a rifle at all and put the web dispenser or baton gun on the other forearm. That would leave the unit more versatile for using its hands/strength for moving obstacles and dealing with the odd super strong D-Bee without worrying about ditching and retrieving it's rifle. Also I'd drop the mini missile launcher altogether as it is really not needed for the units intended purpose since the GL would work just as well in that capacity, especially in the burbs.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by taalismn »

Remember also the psychological aspect of flying power armor...certain design features could be amped, like deliberately making the thrusters MORE noisy on demand. Having a heavily armored soldier hovering a few yards over your head, jet downbladt holwing like a banshee, the sound echoing off the walls of the concrete canyon you're standing in can have profound effects on your psyche(aircraft technicians working on some experimental turboprop aircraft, for instance, got phsyically sick from the shriek of the props , both directly and from the echo effect off the runway pavement).
Thruster downwash can also be used to spread tear gas and other chemical agents, PUSHING that stuff through fabric air filters, pushing up dust, and maybe even bowling over smaller-framed people.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by jaymz »

I think i should post my Infantry SAMAS. I have to do some edits to make it compatible with the RAW though :lol:
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Hystrix »

taalismn wrote:Remember also the psychological aspect of flying power armor...certain design features could be amped, like deliberately making the thrusters MORE noisy on demand. Having a heavily armored soldier hovering a few yards over your head, jet downbladt holwing like a banshee, the sound echoing off the walls of the concrete canyon you're standing in can have profound effects on your psyche(aircraft technicians working on some experimental turboprop aircraft, for instance, got phsyically sick from the shriek of the props , both directly and from the echo effect off the runway pavement).
Thruster downwash can also be used to spread tear gas and other chemical agents, PUSHING that stuff through fabric air filters, pushing up dust, and maybe even bowling over smaller-framed people.



Hadn't thought about that. A noisier SAM, interesting.

jaymz wrote:I think i should post my Infantry SAMAS. I have to do some edits to make it compatible with the RAW though


Ooo. I'd/ love to see that. Maybe a hybrid between the infantry, and riot models...
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by jaymz »

Hystrix wrote:
taalismn wrote:Remember also the psychological aspect of flying power armor...certain design features could be amped, like deliberately making the thrusters MORE noisy on demand. Having a heavily armored soldier hovering a few yards over your head, jet downbladt holwing like a banshee, the sound echoing off the walls of the concrete canyon you're standing in can have profound effects on your psyche(aircraft technicians working on some experimental turboprop aircraft, for instance, got phsyically sick from the shriek of the props , both directly and from the echo effect off the runway pavement).
Thruster downwash can also be used to spread tear gas and other chemical agents, PUSHING that stuff through fabric air filters, pushing up dust, and maybe even bowling over smaller-framed people.



Hadn't thought about that. A noisier SAM, interesting.

jaymz wrote:I think i should post my Infantry SAMAS. I have to do some edits to make it compatible with the RAW though


Ooo. I'd/ love to see that. Maybe a hybrid between the infantry, and riot models...



Well my infantry model drops the flight capabilities altogether. It is literally an infantry unit in the similar vein as the Samson. Adds the optional use of a .50 cal machine gun or a 5.56mm mini gun (both can use standard, explosive or ramjet rounds as needed) in place of the rail gun and adds a large back mounted mini missile launcher that fires over the shoulder from where the intakes used to be.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by taalismn »

Hystrix wrote:
taalismn wrote:Remember also the psychological aspect of flying power armor...certain design features could be amped, like deliberately making the thrusters MORE noisy on demand. Having a heavily armored soldier hovering a few yards over your head, jet downbladt holwing like a banshee, the sound echoing off the walls of the concrete canyon you're standing in can have profound effects on your psyche(aircraft technicians working on some experimental turboprop aircraft, for instance, got phsyically sick from the shriek of the props , both directly and from the echo effect off the runway pavement).
Thruster downwash can also be used to spread tear gas and other chemical agents, PUSHING that stuff through fabric air filters, pushing up dust, and maybe even bowling over smaller-framed people.



Hadn't thought about that. A noisier SAM, interesting.Ooo. .



Of course, you'd get complaints from law-abiding citizens about the noise, but what would you rather have; dangerous destructive rioting and rampaging rablle, or some brief inconvenience from noise and insuing law and order?
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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Dr Megaverse »

I agree that the net/rubber bullet gun should be forearm mounted and instead of the CP40 maybe find a rifle which fires neural disruptor darts. There is a handgun version of this kind of weapon in the Merc Town book, shouldn't be hard to extrapolate it up to a rifle. Basically it uses compressed air to fire mini taser darts. The forearm mini missle launcher could be swapped for a grenade launcher used for tear gas/smoke dispenser/flashbang support.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by taalismn »

"I assure you, General, it's a tremendous find, and one with great potential for immediate application to your Riot SAMAS program! Pure Golden Age ingenuity alloyed to modern metal muscle!"
"...I'm not so sure about this 'Nerf Gatling Gun'..."
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by novatomato »

it is an interesting concept but I must say I don't particularly agree with your reasonings behind it.
I picture the Sams as doing patrols in places like the Burbs, and not inside the actual CS cities (the people allowed inside the cities would be screened before entry to 'keep out the rifraf.) When it comes to dealing with the denizens of the Burbs, Chi-Town has been shown to not exactly care about anything really, plus there are plenty of inhabitants that are armed/armoured to be able to take on MD power armours so the Sams would require their main rail gun weaponry to be able to dissuade them from attacking. Secondly, there is no reason why they couldn't have tear/nerve gas missiles and a secondary weapon on hand.

Still, that being said I think the new suit is well designed and thought out. Certainly worth having some around in case there is a riot inside one of the cities (inspired by the pc's perhaps?)
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by jaymz »

taalismn wrote:
Hystrix wrote:
taalismn wrote:Remember also the psychological aspect of flying power armor...certain design features could be amped, like deliberately making the thrusters MORE noisy on demand. Having a heavily armored soldier hovering a few yards over your head, jet downbladt holwing like a banshee, the sound echoing off the walls of the concrete canyon you're standing in can have profound effects on your psyche(aircraft technicians working on some experimental turboprop aircraft, for instance, got phsyically sick from the shriek of the props , both directly and from the echo effect off the runway pavement).
Thruster downwash can also be used to spread tear gas and other chemical agents, PUSHING that stuff through fabric air filters, pushing up dust, and maybe even bowling over smaller-framed people.



Hadn't thought about that. A noisier SAM, interesting.Ooo. .



Of course, you'd get complaints from law-abiding citizens about the noise, but what would you rather have; dangerous destructive rioting and rampaging rablle, or some brief inconvenience from noise and insuing law and order?



Not to mention by and large we are talking about people living in the burbs.....law abiding or not the CS don't give a damn largely because of that reason :)
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by jaymz »

I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Hystrix »

novatomato wrote:it is an interesting concept but I must say I don't particularly agree with your reasonings behind it.
I picture the Sams as doing patrols in places like the Burbs, and not inside the actual CS cities (the people allowed inside the cities would be screened before entry to 'keep out the rifraf.) When it comes to dealing with the denizens of the Burbs, Chi-Town has been shown to not exactly care about anything really, plus there are plenty of inhabitants that are armed/armoured to be able to take on MD power armours so the Sams would require their main rail gun weaponry to be able to dissuade them from attacking. Secondly, there is no reason why they couldn't have tear/nerve gas missiles and a secondary weapon on hand.

Still, that being said I think the new suit is well designed and thought out. Certainly worth having some around in case there is a riot inside one of the cities (inspired by the pc's perhaps?)



In a city of 2 million people you may have some crime. Chi-Town gets patroled by ISS the same as any place else. Beside CWC pg. 113 mentions that the SAMAS is used for patrols "even in the walled fortress super cities."

They may not care about the dezies of the burbs so much, but if they are trying to apprehend a suspect, a C-40 railgun isn't the way to go...
Last edited by Hystrix on Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Hystrix »

jaymz wrote:One Infantry Samas :D

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=123221&p=2372882#p2372882



Pretty cool. 8)
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Hystrix »

Dr Megaverse wrote:I agree that the net/rubber bullet gun should be forearm mounted and instead of the CP40 maybe find a rifle which fires neural disruptor darts. There is a handgun version of this kind of weapon in the Merc Town book, shouldn't be hard to extrapolate it up to a rifle. Basically it uses compressed air to fire mini taser darts. The forearm mini missle launcher could be swapped for a grenade launcher used for tear gas/smoke dispenser/flashbang support.


Well, the baton gun was a take off of a weapon used by the NGR. The Neural Disruptor is actually in Mrec Ops pp 91-92. Good find though... I may have to integrate that one.

Really the weapons I came up with (like the web gun) I was just spit ballin'. There was also a kenetic gel gun that worked similar to the baton gun, that I left out...
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by taalismn »

novatomato wrote:it is an interesting concept but I must say I don't particularly agree with your reasonings behind it.
I picture the Sams as doing patrols in places like the Burbs, and not inside the actual CS cities (the people allowed inside the cities would be screened before entry to 'keep out the rifraf.) When it comes to dealing with the denizens of the Burbs, Chi-Town has been shown to not exactly care about anything really, plus there are plenty of inhabitants that are armed/armoured to be able to take on MD power armours so the Sams would require their main rail gun weaponry to be able to dissuade them from attacking. Secondly, there is no reason why they couldn't have tear/nerve gas missiles and a secondary weapon on hand.?)



It's the Kinder, Gentler, More So Accommodating to Your Indovidual Needs We're Producing a SAMAS Unit Specifically With the Purpose of Kicking Your Head In version of the Coalition States. If they were any more kinder, gentler, or more accommodating, the SAMAS would have plush exteriors, be sprinkled with glitter, be decorated with hearts, moons, and rainbows, and carry handheld Stop signs. You don't want to go that far.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Hystrix »

taalismn wrote:
novatomato wrote:it is an interesting concept but I must say I don't particularly agree with your reasonings behind it.
I picture the Sams as doing patrols in places like the Burbs, and not inside the actual CS cities (the people allowed inside the cities would be screened before entry to 'keep out the rifraf.) When it comes to dealing with the denizens of the Burbs, Chi-Town has been shown to not exactly care about anything really, plus there are plenty of inhabitants that are armed/armoured to be able to take on MD power armours so the Sams would require their main rail gun weaponry to be able to dissuade them from attacking. Secondly, there is no reason why they couldn't have tear/nerve gas missiles and a secondary weapon on hand.?)



It's the Kinder, Gentler, More So Accommodating to Your Indovidual Needs We're Producing a SAMAS Unit Specifically With the Purpose of Kicking Your Head In version of the Coalition States. If they were any more kinder, gentler, or more accommodating, the SAMAS would have plush exteriors, be sprinkled with glitter, be decorated with hearts, moons, and rainbows, and carry handheld Stop signs. You don't want to go that far.



Really? Ever been tear gassed? Nothing kind or gentle about it...
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by taalismn »

Hystrix wrote:[


Really? Ever been tear gassed? Nothing kind or gentle about it...



As opposed to being rail-gunned, shrapnel-tenderized, laser-baked, or plasma flash-fried? Or maybe just have your gums massaged by a heavy plastic billy club driven by power armor-strength actuators? Even weeping snot and coughing for weeks is comparatively mild compared to be salsafied by low-power MD weaponry/melee combat.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Hystrix »

taalismn wrote:
Hystrix wrote:[


Really? Ever been tear gassed? Nothing kind or gentle about it...



As opposed to being rail-gunned, shrapnel-tenderized, laser-baked, or plasma flash-fried? Or maybe just have your gums massaged by a heavy plastic billy club driven by power armor-strength actuators? Even weeping snot and coughing for weeks is comparatively mild compared to be salsafied by low-power MD weaponry/melee combat.



I get it. But I'm not propossing tat the CS do this to thier entire arsanal.

I thought you liked this idea?!? :-?
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by taalismn »

Hystrix wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Hystrix wrote:[


Really? Ever been tear gassed? Nothing kind or gentle about it...



As opposed to being rail-gunned, shrapnel-tenderized, laser-baked, or plasma flash-fried? Or maybe just have your gums massaged by a heavy plastic billy club driven by power armor-strength actuators? Even weeping snot and coughing for weeks is comparatively mild compared to be salsafied by low-power MD weaponry/melee combat.



I get it. But I'm not propossing tat the CS do this to thier entire arsanal.

I thought you liked this idea?!? :-?


I like the idea. Admittedly, you could probably get away with just issuing your SAMAS pilots tear gas rockets, neural maces, and grenades, and give them C-12 laser rifles(which have an SDC firing mode) in place of the rail guns(you still have an MD mode and the SAMAS's own enhanced strength for dealing with low-MDC barricades), BUT there are dozens of specialized riot and security vehicles in our own day and age that wouldn't last more than a few seconds in a warzone, and the military(well, Western armies at least) don't like to use tanks as police cars. The Coalition has NETSEC and their urban police units, who will want something more specialized to their particular needs. And as heavy-handed as the CS gets when getting down to 'urban renewal', the industrialists who provide the CS with cheap goods DO want to keep the damage and need to replace workers to a minimum, so they will exert some influence on giving the cop-soldiers/national guard the right tools for the job, rather than depend on noob military trainees(or rotated veterans who are more used to front line combat) with downgraded or seconded military gear. The urban cops are experienced enough to pick out and separate miscreant leaders, 'shape' mobs, and contain damage, while the line troopers are more apt to go for body-counts and lay down thick cover fire against all possible threat approaches.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Mech-Viper Prime »

wonder if someone could figure out a tazer type weapons systems
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by jaymz »

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:wonder if someone could figure out a tazer type weapons systems



Merc ops HAS a taser weapon. It would just be a larger version of said weapon.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by jaymz »

taalismn wrote:
Hystrix wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Hystrix wrote:[


Really? Ever been tear gassed? Nothing kind or gentle about it...



As opposed to being rail-gunned, shrapnel-tenderized, laser-baked, or plasma flash-fried? Or maybe just have your gums massaged by a heavy plastic billy club driven by power armor-strength actuators? Even weeping snot and coughing for weeks is comparatively mild compared to be salsafied by low-power MD weaponry/melee combat.



I get it. But I'm not propossing tat the CS do this to thier entire arsanal.

I thought you liked this idea?!? :-?


I like the idea. Admittedly, you could probably get away with just issuing your SAMAS pilots tear gas rockets, neural maces, and grenades, and give them C-12 laser rifles(which have an SDC firing mode) in place of the rail guns(you still have an MD mode and the SAMAS's own enhanced strength for dealing with low-MDC barricades), BUT there are dozens of specialized riot and security vehicles in our own day and age that wouldn't last more than a few seconds in a warzone, and the military(well, Western armies at least) don't like to use tanks as police cars. The Coalition has NETSEC and their urban police units, who will want something more specialized to their particular needs. And as heavy-handed as the CS gets when getting down to 'urban renewal', the industrialists who provide the CS with cheap goods DO want to keep the damage and need to replace workers to a minimum, so they will exert some influence on giving the cop-soldiers/national guard the right tools for the job, rather than depend on noob military trainees(or rotated veterans who are more used to front line combat) with downgraded or seconded military gear. The urban cops are experienced enough to pick out and separate miscreant leaders, 'shape' mobs, and contain damage, while the line troopers are more apt to go for body-counts and lay down thick cover fire against all possible threat approaches.



Actually IIRC CWC states the old style Sams and Skycycles were in fact transferred in large quantities for ISS and NETSET useage....
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Hystrix »

taalismn wrote:
Hystrix wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Hystrix wrote:[


Really? Ever been tear gassed? Nothing kind or gentle about it...



As opposed to being rail-gunned, shrapnel-tenderized, laser-baked, or plasma flash-fried? Or maybe just have your gums massaged by a heavy plastic billy club driven by power armor-strength actuators? Even weeping snot and coughing for weeks is comparatively mild compared to be salsafied by low-power MD weaponry/melee combat.



I get it. But I'm not propossing tat the CS do this to thier entire arsanal.

I thought you liked this idea?!? :-?


I like the idea. Admittedly, you could probably get away with just issuing your SAMAS pilots tear gas rockets, neural maces, and grenades, and give them C-12 laser rifles(which have an SDC firing mode) in place of the rail guns(you still have an MD mode and the SAMAS's own enhanced strength for dealing with low-MDC barricades), BUT there are dozens of specialized riot and security vehicles in our own day and age that wouldn't last more than a few seconds in a warzone, and the military(well, Western armies at least) don't like to use tanks as police cars. The Coalition has NETSEC and their urban police units, who will want something more specialized to their particular needs. And as heavy-handed as the CS gets when getting down to 'urban renewal', the industrialists who provide the CS with cheap goods DO want to keep the damage and need to replace workers to a minimum, so they will exert some influence on giving the cop-soldiers/national guard the right tools for the job, rather than depend on noob military trainees(or rotated veterans who are more used to front line combat) with downgraded or seconded military gear. The urban cops are experienced enough to pick out and separate miscreant leaders, 'shape' mobs, and contain damage, while the line troopers are more apt to go for body-counts and lay down thick cover fire against all possible threat approaches.



Hmm, maybe you're right. I was just thinking of the fact that there are thousands (according to CWC 1.6 million; not sure I agree) SAMAS that were handed over to the ISS. I figured some of them could be re-tooled to be used as riot controll instead of the crazy military grade power armor that they are.

I definatly agree with you about the C-12. But I like the Fire Breather's grenade launcher (especially since you can use tear gas, smoke, flashbang). Maybe a mix of that. Like a Firebreather that can do MD, and SDC damage, AND fire grenades.

The great thing about using a SAMAS for this is that they'd be tough to overwhelm. A guy in body armor could get knocked down/ tramplped/ beat up. Try doing that to the guy in 8 foot tall power armor...
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Fire Fighter SAMAS
Police SAMAS
Can a SAMAS cary another person? Search and Rescue SAMAS
Skip all of these specialized SAMAS and go with the modular SAMAS mentioned in another section and have fast packs that specialize in the above.
Or since those ModSAMAS would be rare at first and specops then the standard would get modded into these.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Mech-Viper Prime »

jaymz wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:wonder if someone could figure out a tazer type weapons systems



Merc ops HAS a taser weapon. It would just be a larger version of said weapon.

thanks got some many rifts book , forget where to look half the time, another reason i like the rifts index books
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Mech-Viper Prime »

Zer0 Kay wrote:Fire Fighter SAMAS
Police SAMAS
Can a SAMAS cary another person? Search and Rescue SAMAS
Skip all of these specialized SAMAS and go with the modular SAMAS mentioned in another section and have fast packs that specialize in the above.
Or since those ModSAMAS would be rare at first and specops then the standard would get modded into these.

well you can do that with the old samas , they got so many around
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:Fire Fighter SAMAS
Police SAMAS
Can a SAMAS cary another person? Search and Rescue SAMAS
Skip all of these specialized SAMAS and go with the modular SAMAS mentioned in another section and have fast packs that specialize in the above.
Or since those ModSAMAS would be rare at first and specops then the standard would get modded into these.

well you can do that with the old samas , they got so many around

Isn't that what I said? "The standard would get modded"... but then again I guess the standard isn't the first CS model huh?
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Hystrix »

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:Fire Fighter SAMAS
Police SAMAS
Can a SAMAS cary another person? Search and Rescue SAMAS
Skip all of these specialized SAMAS and go with the modular SAMAS mentioned in another section and have fast packs that specialize in the above.
Or since those ModSAMAS would be rare at first and specops then the standard would get modded into these.

well you can do that with the old samas , they got so many around

Isn't that what I said? "The standard would get modded"... but then again I guess the standard isn't the first CS model huh?


Isn't that what I'm doing here? Or are you saying skip the Smiling Jack, Super SAMAS, Striker SAMAS in favor of modding? Because the Riot SAM is a modded PA-06A...
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by taalismn »

Of course, the modular SAMAS would be on the top ten of the Black Market's 'to acquire' list, in spite of the risks, because it would be so easy to modify to end-customer's taste and/or available weapons and accessory systems.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

taalismn wrote:Of course, the modular SAMAS would be on the top ten of the Black Market's 'to acquire' list, in spite of the risks, because it would be so easy to modify to end-customer's taste and/or available weapons and accessory systems.

Because going from non-modular to a modular design on the same body is just soooooo difficult. I'd almost argue that the Black Market may be able to come up with it first.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Hystrix wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:Fire Fighter SAMAS
Police SAMAS
Can a SAMAS cary another person? Search and Rescue SAMAS
Skip all of these specialized SAMAS and go with the modular SAMAS mentioned in another section and have fast packs that specialize in the above.
Or since those ModSAMAS would be rare at first and specops then the standard would get modded into these.

well you can do that with the old samas , they got so many around

Isn't that what I said? "The standard would get modded"... but then again I guess the standard isn't the first CS model huh?


Isn't that what I'm doing here? Or are you saying skip the Smiling Jack, Super SAMAS, Striker SAMAS in favor of modding? Because the Riot SAM is a modded PA-06A...


Yes you are, modding the old version. I was just saying If they accepted a modular and and after it permiated the military and all aspects of the CS they could have fast packs.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by taalismn »

Zer0 Kay wrote:
taalismn wrote:Of course, the modular SAMAS would be on the top ten of the Black Market's 'to acquire' list, in spite of the risks, because it would be so easy to modify to end-customer's taste and/or available weapons and accessory systems.

Because going from non-modular to a modular design on the same body is just soooooo difficult. I'd almost argue that the Black Market may be able to come up with it first.



Well, especially integrating fire control....energy weapons are point and shoot, but projectile weapons need different targeting solutions)plus power allocation, recoil compensation, etc,, if you want to get detailed), so the computer systems have to be fairly flexible and expandable so you can load a set of different weapons characteristics so you can swap at will, or else have to download a software patch every time you change weapons systems out.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Mech-Viper Prime »

could do a ground model with a riot shield and B.A. stun stick
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Nightmask »

The idea of modular armors with snap-on attachment ports is one I like, I loved the period when Iron Man was set up like that (sadly it didn't last very long). So would the modular ports be on the forearms, back, and head only or other spots as well?
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

taalismn wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
taalismn wrote:Of course, the modular SAMAS would be on the top ten of the Black Market's 'to acquire' list, in spite of the risks, because it would be so easy to modify to end-customer's taste and/or available weapons and accessory systems.

Because going from non-modular to a modular design on the same body is just soooooo difficult. I'd almost argue that the Black Market may be able to come up with it first.



Well, especially integrating fire control....energy weapons are point and shoot, but projectile weapons need different targeting solutions)plus power allocation, recoil compensation, etc,, if you want to get detailed), so the computer systems have to be fairly flexible and expandable so you can load a set of different weapons characteristics so you can swap at will, or else have to download a software patch every time you change weapons systems out.


Onboard computer basically a frame all programming hard coded on the fast packs that way when you drop it you free up the space instead of having to have an emense storage area... especially since their personal computer storage sucks :lol:
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Nightmask wrote:The idea of modular armors with snap-on attachment ports is one I like, I loved the period when Iron Man was set up like that (sadly it didn't last very long). So would the modular ports be on the forearms, back, and head only or other spots as well?


Forearms, back/shoulders, calfs
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Dustin Fireblade »

Nightmask wrote:The idea of modular armors with snap-on attachment ports is one I like, I loved the period when Iron Man was set up like that (sadly it didn't last very long). So would the modular ports be on the forearms, back, and head only or other spots as well?


The Modular Power Armor in Australia might provide some insight here.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by taalismn »

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Nightmask wrote:The idea of modular armors with snap-on attachment ports is one I like, I loved the period when Iron Man was set up like that (sadly it didn't last very long). So would the modular ports be on the forearms, back, and head only or other spots as well?


Forearms, back/shoulders, calfs


Chest(if you go for the 'Pecs of Doom') and hips(for literally shooting from the hip) too.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Blindscout »

Flashback to the Centurions....in full swing :lol: .
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by taalismn »

Blindscout wrote:Flashback to the Centurions....in full swing :lol: .



"I said NO helicopter rotors! You know what happens when you put a rotor on a power armor and no torque control? You get a very motion-sick SAMAS pilot that's what! You ever throw up in a power armor? Believe me, army-issue coffee doesn't taste any better the SECOND time around!"
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Blindscout wrote:Flashback to the Centurions....in full swing :lol: .

Dude already said that in modular :P but yup.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

taalismn wrote:
Blindscout wrote:Flashback to the Centurions....in full swing :lol: .



"I said NO helicopter rotors! You know what happens when you put a rotor on a power armor and no torque control? You get a very motion-sick SAMAS pilot that's what! You ever throw up in a power armor? Believe me, army-issue coffee doesn't taste any better the SECOND time around!"


That is why there is calf packs that is where you'd put the torque control... or it would just be a counter rotation rotors. Or dual counter rotating rotors one on each shoulder. Funny.
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by Blindscout »

taalismn wrote:
Blindscout wrote:Flashback to the Centurions....in full swing :lol: .



"I said NO helicopter rotors! You know what happens when you put a rotor on a power armor and no torque control? You get a very motion-sick SAMAS pilot that's what! You ever throw up in a power armor? Believe me, army-issue coffee doesn't taste any better the SECOND time around!"


You are conditionally incorrect (or correct) as far as this goes, Sir! If I happened to have eaten something with said coffee that did not already taste like vomit, then it could potentially taste better, otherwise it just tastes the same, Sir! :lol: :bandit:
Guy_LeDouche wrote:Any experiment of any kind that starts with "hold my beer" should make the property owner immune to frivolous lawsuits.

Mack wrote:Oh, and if the POTUS evey gave me a nuke, I think I'd aim it at Bieber.


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BEEP BEEP Let's go for a ride in the Jeep!
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MikelAmroni
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by MikelAmroni »

Actually modding a SAMAS Patrol to handle Less than Lethal weapon tech wouldn't be hard or require manufacturing much of anything. Several GMs I know (myself and Jedi specifically, but I seem to remember there were more) have grenade launcher add ons for the C-40R. That plus rubber bullets for the C-40R and you have an instant LTL main gun. Work up a version of the Juicer gauntlet to include a high yield Energy Pistol and Neuromace instead of plasma gun and Vibro Blades and mount that in place of the mini-missiles, and you have a lethal option that isn't overkill, and another LTL option. I am sure the "scream" effect could be done with an easy to install add on, and only be activated when necessary, not an always on thing. The Robotic strength would make it capable of responding to strong D-bees and juicers with ease.

Also, you can easily strap on a bandolier of LTL grenades if you're not expecting to need your fastest speeds because of the nature of urban combat.
"Be strong and do as you will. The swords of others will set you your limits." (Marauders of Gor, p.10)

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taalismn
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Re: Non-Lethal SAMAS

Unread post by taalismn »

Blindscout wrote:[

You are conditionally incorrect (or correct) as far as this goes, Sir! If I happened to have eaten something with said coffee that did not already taste like vomit, then it could potentially taste better, otherwise it just tastes the same, Sir! :lol: :bandit:


Your logic earns you the coveted Golden(well, actually it's just Shiny Yellow Laminated Paper) Barf Bag.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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