Can you make a legal True Atlantean that is also a Nightbane

[Nether]

Is this legal:

[Lenwen]

Is this legal:

No.

No matter what .. if it transforms the character it is not legal for a True Atlantean to be one ..

They are immune to being transformed by any means ..

[Galroth]

Is this legal:

No.

No matter what .. if it transforms the character it is not legal for a True Atlantean to be one ..

They are immune to being transformed by any means ..

Wouldn't it depend on whether or not a Nightbane character could be tattooed? The tattoos are what make Atlanteans immune, so if they couldn't get the tattoo in the first place they could be a nightbane. In the end, I'd say it's up to the GM as to whether or not they would allow such a combination. Personally I wouldn't.

[Long Shadow]

Is this legal:

No.

No matter what .. if it transforms the character it is not legal for a True Atlantean to be one ..

They are immune to being transformed by any means ..

Wouldn't it depend on whether or not a Nightbane character could be tattooed? The tattoos are what make Atlanteans immune, so if they couldn't get the tattoo in the first place they could be a nightbane. In the end, I'd say it's up to the GM as to whether or not they would allow such a combination. Personally I wouldn't.

That's not correct... The entry for being immune to transformation mentions nothing about tattoos. And (non-Atlantean) Tattoo men have no immunity to transformation.

[Shark_Force]

agreed. immunity to transformation being one of the standard abilities of all true atlanteans, transforming into a nightbane is not a possibility.

[Mercdog]

Plus there is the question as to whether or not anyone can 'become' a Nightbane, or must be born as one in the firstplace.

[taalismn]

Is this legal:

Only if you use a really BIG blender...

[Galroth]

Is this legal:

No.

No matter what .. if it transforms the character it is not legal for a True Atlantean to be one ..

They are immune to being transformed by any means ..

Wouldn't it depend on whether or not a Nightbane character could be tattooed? The tattoos are what make Atlanteans immune, so if they couldn't get the tattoo in the first place they could be a nightbane. In the end, I'd say it's up to the GM as to whether or not they would allow such a combination. Personally I wouldn't.

That's not correct... The entry for being immune to transformation mentions nothing about tattoos. And (non-Atlantean) Tattoo men have no immunity to transformation.

Oops, that's what I get for going from memory instead of actually looking.

[The Beast]

Plus there is the question as to whether or not anyone can 'become' a Nightbane, or must be born as one in the firstplace.

The way I understand it is you have to be born one.

[Long Shadow]

Plus there is the question as to whether or not anyone can 'become' a Nightbane, or must be born as one in the firstplace.

The way I understand it is you have to be born one.

That's what's infered in the Main Book and Nightlands. I heard there was something different in the Nightbane Survival Guilde, but I haven't read it myself.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Is this legal:

NB are all foundlings,[these could be mistaken as orphans,especially in a society that has no experience with foundlings, like the USA of today.] so there can be no TA NB.

While a TA family could adopt a per-becoming NB child, the child would not be a TA.

[MikePGS]

The FAQ for P.C.C./R.C.C.'s say that it is legal. However if I hadn't read that I would say no due to the no transformation thing.
http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/ques ... ccpcc.html (Question 31)

[drewkitty ~..~]

31. Can True Atlanteans be Nightbanes? What other races can be nightbanes? What limitations would you prescribe?
Answer: The Façade of a Nightbane can belong to any non-supernatural humanoid races and True Atlanteans. For full details see Between the Shadows page 142.

The answer is very nuanced, while saying they can appear to be a TA, it does not say that they are TA. Which is to say they may look human but are not human.


So the answer to the overall question of this topic is "No, TA's can not be NB." The however is "a NB's facade can look like a TA."

[Zer0 Kay]

Plus there is the question as to whether or not anyone can 'become' a Nightbane, or must be born as one in the firstplace.

The way I understand it is you have to be born one.

But they aren't born they just are. The story, supposedly, that never got to get finished was that the Nightspawn are the manifestations of the souls of the race that originally inhabited the Nightlands.

[Zer0 Kay]

Plus there is the question as to whether or not anyone can 'become' a Nightbane, or must be born as one in the firstplace.

The way I understand it is you have to be born one.

But they aren't born they just are. The story, supposedly, that never got to get finished was that the Nightspawn are the manifestations of the souls of the race that originally inhabited the Nightlands.

SO you can look like an Atlantien you can act like one, your even immune to transformations of any kind but on the day of your becoming it is recognized by all that you are not one.

Nightspawn is an a race not an OCC and just like Elfs and Humans you can't mix Nightbane with anything else... and as far as I'm concerned (e.g. house rule) they are incapable of producing offspring.

[Zer0 Kay]

31. Can True Atlanteans be Nightbanes? What other races can be nightbanes? What limitations would you prescribe?
Answer: The Façade of a Nightbane can belong to any non-supernatural humanoid races and True Atlanteans. For full details see Between the Shadows page 142.

The answer is very nuanced, while saying they can appear to be a TA, it does not say that they are TA. Which is to say they may look human but are not human.


So the answer to the overall question of this topic is "No, TA's can not be NB." The however is "a NB's facade can look like a TA."

Agreed. Their facade may end up appearing as anything... but here is a kinda tough question. Do you always roll up there facade as if it were human or if it looks like a TA would you roll it up as a TA? In my games all the Nightspawn are human. They all look that way because that is the dominant race of the world that the Nightlands are connected to. The Nightlands don't connect to Rifts Earth. The Nightspawn Earth's dimension has a non-permiable dimensional membrane and the easiest way to get to Rifts is to find a way through the Astral Realms. The Nightland's aren't as closely connected to the astral realms as they are Nightspawn Earth so that is why the Nightspawn Facade doesn't look like a giant spider man thing or a succubus' shadow.

[Giant2005]

"The Facade of a Nightbane can belong to any non-supernatural humanoid (and human-sized) race, although most (90%) Nightbane are human. This includes such races as Elves, Dwarves, True Atlanteans, and similar human-like races. No supernatural race (includes races with supernatural strength, large amounts of S.D.C. (100+) or any mega-damage beings or creatures of magic) are never Nightbane."

[Giant2005]

31. Can True Atlanteans be Nightbanes? What other races can be nightbanes? What limitations would you prescribe?
Answer: The Façade of a Nightbane can belong to any non-supernatural humanoid races and True Atlanteans. For full details see Between the Shadows page 142.

The answer is very nuanced, while saying they can appear to be a TA, it does not say that they are TA. Which is to say they may look human but are not human.


So the answer to the overall question of this topic is "No, TA's can not be NB." The however is "a NB's facade can look like a TA."

Agreed. Their facade may end up appearing as anything... but here is a kinda tough question. Do you always roll up there facade as if it were human or if it looks like a TA would you roll it up as a TA? In my games all the Nightspawn are human. They all look that way because that is the dominant race of the world that the Nightlands are connected to. The Nightlands don't connect to Rifts Earth. The Nightspawn Earth's dimension has a non-permiable dimensional membrane and the easiest way to get to Rifts is to find a way through the Astral Realms. The Nightland's aren't as closely connected to the astral realms as they are Nightspawn Earth so that is why the Nightspawn Facade doesn't look like a giant spider man thing or a succubus' shadow.

The quote I typed in my previous post suggests that they do get all the attribute bonuses of whatever their base race is. The limitation of being a race with 100 SDC or less sounds like it is purely a balancing issue.

[Giant2005]

One thing worth mentioning about a TA Nightbane: All Magic Tattoos including their marks of heritage don't work.

[Nether]

One of my two mains in game when i am a player is TA NB which is a Lord Magus. For the TA and NB i acutally removed some abilities, but any house rules we use the group needs to be ok with and none of them minded me playing this combo. I definately am not the most powerful in the group but i bring some good utility.

As for the Rifts world, we have combined Nightspawn, (thats right i said it, screw you todd!!), Chaos Earth to be a permenent part of Rifts world, no seperation, and then HU, NaSS, BtSN to be pre cataclysm earth with Nightspawn there as well, and then PFantasy to early early earth history making them all one world vs split into many worlds.

I have a huge background for the TA Nightspawn, and treated it as they were the TA clan that were born with the NB aspect in them.

It has been a long time sinse i looked over the rules for it, just wanted to hear what you all thought.

[The Beast]

One thing worth mentioning about a TA Nightbane: All Magic Tattoos including their marks of heritage don't work.

Why would you say that?

[Armorlord]

Is this legal:

No. They are two different races.
Just like you can't be a Goblin and also a True Naruni.

If the question is whether or not Magic Tattoos work with Nightbane.. I would say that is a very good question.
I would lean toward an answer of 'It would be complicated' rather than an outright no, but it'll take me a bit to phrase out.

[Giant2005]

One thing worth mentioning about a TA Nightbane: All Magic Tattoos including their marks of heritage don't work.

Why would you say that?

Because the book says so.
All of this is actually printed on page 142 and 143 of Between the Shadows.
It says quite conclusively the rules on what races in Rifts can be Nightbane and makes specific mention that regardless of race all magic tattoos won't function.

[TechnoGothic]

Is this legal:

NB are all foundlings,[these could be mistaken as orphans,especially in a society that has no experience with foundlings, like the USA of today.] so there can be no TA NB.

While a TA family could adopt a per-becoming NB child, the child would not be a TA.

Not anymore according to R-DC or NB-SG offically.
NB are "born" now.

But their actual origin is still a mystery.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Is this legal:

NB are all foundlings,[these could be mistaken as orphans,especially in a society that has no experience with foundlings, like the USA of today.] so there can be no TA NB.

While a TA family could adopt a per-becoming NB child, the child would not be a TA.

Not anymore according to R-DC or NB-SG officially.
NB are "born" now.

But their actual origin is still a mystery.

It's a good thing I can make NS, I can ignore the Munchkin changes in RDC, and the bits about NS being born is messed up.(if they had not changed the parts about NB origins, then it would not be messed up.)

[Armorlord]

Not anymore according to R-DC or NB-SG offically.
NB are "born" now.

But their actual origin is still a mystery.

Technically that bit is in the in-universe survival guide, and could very well be mistaken.
Sure there has been some talk that Kevin intends that as an official change, but it violates so much of what we do know of them that I am more than happy to acknowledge that any information presented from within the game world is not actual gospel, same as Ms. Tarn's writings.
Also, I'm relatively offended by the notion that orphans and adoptees can't have normal healthy families, and be a normal healthy person that cares about said family, whether he or she is aware of their initial foundling status or not. Which has been among the reasons I've heard thrown around for that change.

If the question is whether or not Magic Tattoos work with Nightbane.. I would say that is a very good question.
I would lean toward an answer of 'It would be complicated' rather than an outright no, but it'll take me a bit to phrase out.

Further research, as others have pointed out, shows that Between the Shadows does indeed give that a firm no, though I could imagine the failed imprint on a latent affecting the eventual morphus in interesting ways.

[Nether]

Can someone point me to which books have the rules for RCC~s and being able to choose OCC~s:

It has been a long time sinse looking it up and would like to go over said rules.
thx

[ShadowLogan]

Not very familiar with Nightbane, but a TA can not be transformed by any means.

That said how exactly does the NB transformation work? Is it like the metamorph spells, like the Monster-Shaping Tatoos (SA1), or closer to having their mind switch bodies (who are also switching places from different dimensions)? Because the first one is out for a TA, the other 2 are certainly approaches that will work.

[Armorlord]

Can someone point me to which books have the rules for RCC~s and being able to choose OCC~s:

It has been a long time sinse looking it up and would like to go over said rules.
thx

That comes down to any restrictions set in the racial information and any limits set in any individual OCC, rather than any blanket rules.
Though again it has to be noted that True Atlantean and Nightbane are both races.

[Nether]

Can someone point me to which books have the rules for RCC~s and being able to choose OCC~s:

It has been a long time sinse looking it up and would like to go over said rules.
thx

That comes down to any restrictions set in the racial information and any limits set in any individual OCC, rather than any blanket rules.
Though again it has to be noted that True Atlantean and Nightbane are both races.

It~s no worries there as i changed the character when those books came out but i was pretty sure there was a working reason in combining the two at the time. But i consider myself a non selfish gamer, as i don~t look for how i can bend the rules or abuse them, quite the opposite. That said, i do have my own concepts and ideas and if the group(s) are ok with them then i can play it. I~ve stuck to the two main characters i have for ages, though both a a slight hybrid. I do strive for a balance though.

But i mainly wanted some clear rules to what RCC~s and PCC~s could can also have OCC~s and how exactly does the stacking work. And then there is multiple OCC~s as well. It would have been nice if in RUE they would have just put some clear rules to how that works in a section all its own instead of scattered all over.

[Nether]

Can someone point me to which books have the rules for RCC~s and being able to choose OCC~s:

It has been a long time sinse looking it up and would like to go over said rules.
thx

That comes down to any restrictions set in the racial information and any limits set in any individual OCC, rather than any blanket rules.
Though again it has to be noted that True Atlantean and Nightbane are both races.

After looking some of this up again after a long time, now i remember why and how it became. The rules for OCC~s ; PCC; and RCC; can be very blurry.

ie; the psi-slinger in new west, 20% of them are psi stalkers instead of human, so you stack to PCC~s togather there. Then it opens the door for possibly using other PCC~s instead of stalkers in its place. I remember that there is other examples like this as well.

Also for what i can remember reading that NB are born and they can be from other races as well (never saw errata for TA about them though, and not changing it after the fact for many reasons, continuity for one) is where it suggests that TA prior to errata could have been NB if they were born with such. Though i remember also that alot of things about NB are vague and left alot of work up to players and gm~s.

So sucks that my character is technically illegal but over all i have really enjoyed the background i~ve created for the TA clan and offshoot of the TA which i called True Night Atlantean.

[Giant2005]

Can someone point me to which books have the rules for RCC~s and being able to choose OCC~s:

It has been a long time sinse looking it up and would like to go over said rules.
thx

That comes down to any restrictions set in the racial information and any limits set in any individual OCC, rather than any blanket rules.
Though again it has to be noted that True Atlantean and Nightbane are both races.

It~s no worries there as i changed the character when those books came out but i was pretty sure there was a working reason in combining the two at the time. But i consider myself a non selfish gamer, as i don~t look for how i can bend the rules or abuse them, quite the opposite. That said, i do have my own concepts and ideas and if the group(s) are ok with them then i can play it. I~ve stuck to the two main characters i have for ages, though both a a slight hybrid. I do strive for a balance though.

But i mainly wanted some clear rules to what RCC~s and PCC~s could can also have OCC~s and how exactly does the stacking work. And then there is multiple OCC~s as well. It would have been nice if in RUE they would have just put some clear rules to how that works in a section all its own instead of scattered all over.

Generally any race that doesn't have it's own skillset can choose an O.C.C. and any race that does have it's own skillset that the book states can select an O.C.C. can have an O.C.C.

[Giant2005]

Can someone point me to which books have the rules for RCC~s and being able to choose OCC~s:

It has been a long time sinse looking it up and would like to go over said rules.
thx

That comes down to any restrictions set in the racial information and any limits set in any individual OCC, rather than any blanket rules.
Though again it has to be noted that True Atlantean and Nightbane are both races.

After looking some of this up again after a long time, now i remember why and how it became. The rules for OCC~s ; PCC; and RCC; can be very blurry.

ie; the psi-slinger in new west, 20% of them are psi stalkers instead of human, so you stack to PCC~s togather there. Then it opens the door for possibly using other PCC~s instead of stalkers in its place. I remember that there is other examples like this as well.

Also for what i can remember reading that NB are born and they can be from other races as well (never saw errata for TA about them though, and not changing it after the fact for many reasons, continuity for one) is where it suggests that TA prior to errata could have been NB if they were born with such. Though i remember also that alot of things about NB are vague and left alot of work up to players and gm~s.

So sucks that my character is technically illegal but over all i have really enjoyed the background i~ve created for the TA clan and offshoot of the TA which i called True Night Atlantean.

It isn't errata.
If you read my previous post I actually directed you to the book and page numbers which specifically state the Facade can be of any humanoid race with 100 SDC or less. It even gives True Atlanteans as an example. Your character is 100% book legal.
Having said that, does anyone have any idea what happens to a Nightbane's Morphus for a race that doesn't look 100% human? Does it look like the character's race before rolling on the unusual characteristics table or does it look like the Facade? For example let's take an Avianne Nightbane. Assume it is very uninteresting and opnly has the doll-like appearance characteristic on it's Morphus. Does it look like a doll-like human or does it look like a doll-like Avianne with fully functional wings still?

[Nether]

Can someone point me to which books have the rules for RCC~s and being able to choose OCC~s:

It has been a long time sinse looking it up and would like to go over said rules.
thx

That comes down to any restrictions set in the racial information and any limits set in any individual OCC, rather than any blanket rules.
Though again it has to be noted that True Atlantean and Nightbane are both races.

After looking some of this up again after a long time, now i remember why and how it became. The rules for OCC~s ; PCC; and RCC; can be very blurry.

ie; the psi-slinger in new west, 20% of them are psi stalkers instead of human, so you stack to PCC~s togather there. Then it opens the door for possibly using other PCC~s instead of stalkers in its place. I remember that there is other examples like this as well.

Also for what i can remember reading that NB are born and they can be from other races as well (never saw errata for TA about them though, and not changing it after the fact for many reasons, continuity for one) is where it suggests that TA prior to errata could have been NB if they were born with such. Though i remember also that alot of things about NB are vague and left alot of work up to players and gm~s.

So sucks that my character is technically illegal but over all i have really enjoyed the background i~ve created for the TA clan and offshoot of the TA which i called True Night Atlantean.

It isn't errata.
If you read my previous post I actually directed you to the book and page numbers which specifically state the Facade can be of any humanoid race with 100 SDC or less. It even gives True Atlanteans as an example. Your character is 100% book legal.
Having said that, does anyone have any idea what happens to a Nightbane's Morphus for a race that doesn't look 100% human? Does it look like the character's race before rolling on the unusual characteristics table or does it look like the Facade? For example let's take an Avianne Nightbane. Assume it is very uninteresting and opnly has the doll-like appearance characteristic on it's Morphus. Does it look like a doll-like human or does it look like a doll-like Avianne with fully functional wings still?

Ah sorry i misread your point.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Can someone point me to which books have the rules for RCC~s and being able to choose OCC~s:

It has been a long time sinse looking it up and would like to go over said rules.
thx

There is no Book that has any rule about RCC's and PCCs changing their class.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If a char is a NB then their race is NB, thus they are not TA.
Thus the issue about 'Can TA's be NB?" is moot.

[Shark_Force]

Can someone point me to which books have the rules for RCC~s and being able to choose OCC~s:

It has been a long time sinse looking it up and would like to go over said rules.
thx

There is no Book that has any rule about RCC's and PCCs changing their class.

ah, this vendetta again.

RCCs, at least the ones that actually are properly labeled as such, can't multiclass, because their genetics determine what they are (that being the very definition of RCCs). note that many races in previous books are improperly marked as RCCs (and some actually have OCCs which also have racial prerequisites, which is not the same thing as an RCC). PCCs, as has already been pointed out again, are not used in the latest version of the rules for rifts and this rule can quite logically be applied to every earlier book.

the only reason to disallow multiclassing with those classes which were formerly classified as PCCs is that you don't want to. ultimately, that's all it boils down to. drewkitty doesn't want to, which is fine. he also doesn't seem to want anyone else to, which i quite frankly don't care about. if it improves your fun to not allow multiclassing PCCs, then go ahead and disallow it. if you just want to follow the rules, well... the latest rules have turned PCCs into psychic OCCs, and therefore there are no more PCCs anyways.

[Nightmask]

If a char is a NB then their race is NB, thus they are not TA.
Thus the issue about 'Can TA's be NB?" is moot.

Except that it isn't. We're talking the Facade which has been stated as being capable of being a True Atlantean. While True Atlanteans can't be transformed as the True Atlantean form of the Nightbane is just its facade the form can be that of a True Atlantean while its 'true' form is whatever Morphus fits the character.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If a char is a NB then their race is NB, thus they are not TA.
Thus the issue about 'Can TA's be NB?" is moot.

Except that it isn't. We're talking the Facade which has been stated as being capable of being a True Atlantean. While True Atlantean can't be transformed as the True Atlantean form of the Nightbane is just its facade the form can be that of a True Atlantean while its 'true' form is whatever Morphus fits the character.

Even if the facade is that of a TA, the char is still a NB, and not a TA.

If the answer to the question "Is the char a NB?" is yes, then the char is a NB, not anything else.
It is a binary solution set. Ether the char is or isn't a NB.
This can not be debated/argued to mean what you want it to mean.

[Nightmask]

If a char is a NB then their race is NB, thus they are not TA.
Thus the issue about 'Can TA's be NB?" is moot.

Except that it isn't. We're talking the Facade which has been stated as being capable of being a True Atlantean. While True Atlanteans can't be transformed as the True Atlantean form of the Nightbane is just its facade the form can be that of a True Atlantean while its 'true' form is whatever Morphus fits the character.

Even if the facade is that of a TA, the char is still a NB, and not a TA.

And to everyone who sees him he's a True Atlantean unless he's in a Morphus form. While you can't make a TA into a Nightbane they do just naturally occur.

[drewkitty ~..~]

And to everyone who sees him he's a True Atlantean unless he's in a Morphus form. While you can't make a TA into a Nightbane they do just naturally occur.

Only if you mean by your "they", to mean 'NB's with a TA looking facade.'

I really hate the use of pronouns when talking about specifics, because they are not specific.

[Zer0 Kay]

31. Can True Atlanteans be Nightbanes? What other races can be nightbanes? What limitations would you prescribe?
Answer: The Façade of a Nightbane can belong to any non-supernatural humanoid races and True Atlanteans. For full details see Between the Shadows page 142.

The answer is very nuanced, while saying they can appear to be a TA, it does not say that they are TA. Which is to say they may look human but are not human.


So the answer to the overall question of this topic is "No, TA's can not be NB." The however is "a NB's facade can look like a TA."

Agreed. Their facade may end up appearing as anything... but here is a kinda tough question. Do you always roll up there facade as if it were human or if it looks like a TA would you roll it up as a TA? In my games all the Nightspawn are human. They all look that way because that is the dominant race of the world that the Nightlands are connected to. The Nightlands don't connect to Rifts Earth. The Nightspawn Earth's dimension has a non-permiable dimensional membrane and the easiest way to get to Rifts is to find a way through the Astral Realms. The Nightland's aren't as closely connected to the astral realms as they are Nightspawn Earth so that is why the Nightspawn Facade doesn't look like a giant spider man thing or a succubus' shadow.

The quote I typed in my previous post suggests that they do get all the attribute bonuses of whatever their base race is. The limitation of being a race with 100 SDC or less sounds like it is purely a balancing issue.

Where did you get that from? Heck which FAQ was the FAQ answer from? That last one wasn't directed at you Giant2005 but at MikePGS.

[Zer0 Kay]

Is this legal:

NB are all foundlings,[these could be mistaken as orphans,especially in a society that has no experience with foundlings, like the USA of today.] so there can be no TA NB.

While a TA family could adopt a per-becoming NB child, the child would not be a TA.

Not anymore according to R-DC or NB-SG offically.
NB are "born" now.

But their actual origin is still a mystery.

I dislike it when new authors take over and change things instead of trying to continue.

[Zer0 Kay]

Not anymore according to R-DC or NB-SG offically.
NB are "born" now.

But their actual origin is still a mystery.

Technically that bit is in the in-universe survival guide, and could very well be mistaken.
Sure there has been some talk that Kevin intends that as an official change, but it violates so much of what we do know of them that I am more than happy to acknowledge that any information presented from within the game world is not actual gospel, same as Ms. Tarn's writings.
Also, I'm relatively offended by the notion that orphans and adoptees can't have normal healthy families, and be a normal healthy person that cares about said family, whether he or she is aware of their initial foundling status or not. Which has been among the reasons I've heard thrown around for that change.

If the question is whether or not Magic Tattoos work with Nightbane.. I would say that is a very good question.
I would lean toward an answer of 'It would be complicated' rather than an outright no, but it'll take me a bit to phrase out.

Further research, as others have pointed out, shows that Between the Shadows does indeed give that a firm no, though I could imagine the failed imprint on a latent affecting the eventual morphus in interesting ways.

In-game data... I didn't know that, complete hewey then, yay!

Changing it because of that is stupid and... I can't even say stereotypical, because it's just stupid. It's opinion presented as fact, I can't seem to recall the word for that right now.

As for the tatoo stuff... that would be dang funny the Facade gets it before his becoming and as soon as they activate their invulnerability tattoo or their flame sword tattoo BOOM WINNING... no wait, had to say that, I meant BOOM, BOOM (Boom for each tattoo) shape change. OMG that wasn't supposed to happen, looks around for tattoo to deactivate it. Not finding it the NS wills himself to change back and does and then realizes that no tattoos are on his body anymore.

[Zer0 Kay]

One thing worth mentioning about a TA Nightbane: All Magic Tattoos including their marks of heritage don't work.

Why would you say that?

Because the book says so.
All of this is actually printed on page 142 and 143 of Between the Shadows.
It says quite conclusively the rules on what races in Rifts can be Nightbane and makes specific mention that regardless of race all magic tattoos won't function.

Alrighty then...

[Zer0 Kay]

If a char is a NB then their race is NB, thus they are not TA.
Thus the issue about 'Can TA's be NB?" is moot.

Except that it isn't. We're talking the Facade which has been stated as being capable of being a True Atlantean. While True Atlantean can't be transformed as the True Atlantean form of the Nightbane is just its facade the form can be that of a True Atlantean while its 'true' form is whatever Morphus fits the character.

Even if the facade is that of a TA, the char is still a NB, and not a TA.

If the answer to the question "Is the char a NB?" is yes, then the char is a NB, not anything else.
It is a binary solution set. Ether the char is or isn't a NB.
This can not be debated/argued to mean what you want it to mean.

If he's a Nightbane can he also be a Nightspawn I refuse to give in to McFarlane... if we do, next thing you know, he'll be charging Salmon to go upstream to mate.

[Giant2005]

31. Can True Atlanteans be Nightbanes? What other races can be nightbanes? What limitations would you prescribe?
Answer: The Façade of a Nightbane can belong to any non-supernatural humanoid races and True Atlanteans. For full details see Between the Shadows page 142.

The answer is very nuanced, while saying they can appear to be a TA, it does not say that they are TA. Which is to say they may look human but are not human.


So the answer to the overall question of this topic is "No, TA's can not be NB." The however is "a NB's facade can look like a TA."

Agreed. Their facade may end up appearing as anything... but here is a kinda tough question. Do you always roll up there facade as if it were human or if it looks like a TA would you roll it up as a TA? In my games all the Nightspawn are human. They all look that way because that is the dominant race of the world that the Nightlands are connected to. The Nightlands don't connect to Rifts Earth. The Nightspawn Earth's dimension has a non-permiable dimensional membrane and the easiest way to get to Rifts is to find a way through the Astral Realms. The Nightland's aren't as closely connected to the astral realms as they are Nightspawn Earth so that is why the Nightspawn Facade doesn't look like a giant spider man thing or a succubus' shadow.

The quote I typed in my previous post suggests that they do get all the attribute bonuses of whatever their base race is. The limitation of being a race with 100 SDC or less sounds like it is purely a balancing issue.

Where did you get that from? Heck which FAQ was the FAQ answer from? That last one wasn't directed at you Giant2005 but at MikePGS.

You specifically said the question wasn't directed at me but I will go ahead and answer anyway
The FAQ can be found here: http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/ques ... ccpcc.html

It is completely unrelated to the topic but I think people should take a look at number 48

[Zer0 Kay]

The answer is very nuanced, while saying they can appear to be a TA, it does not say that they are TA. Which is to say they may look human but are not human.


So the answer to the overall question of this topic is "No, TA's can not be NB." The however is "a NB's facade can look like a TA."

Agreed. Their facade may end up appearing as anything... but here is a kinda tough question. Do you always roll up there facade as if it were human or if it looks like a TA would you roll it up as a TA? In my games all the Nightspawn are human. They all look that way because that is the dominant race of the world that the Nightlands are connected to. The Nightlands don't connect to Rifts Earth. The Nightspawn Earth's dimension has a non-permiable dimensional membrane and the easiest way to get to Rifts is to find a way through the Astral Realms. The Nightland's aren't as closely connected to the astral realms as they are Nightspawn Earth so that is why the Nightspawn Facade doesn't look like a giant spider man thing or a succubus' shadow.

The quote I typed in my previous post suggests that they do get all the attribute bonuses of whatever their base race is. The limitation of being a race with 100 SDC or less sounds like it is purely a balancing issue.

Where did you get that from? Heck which FAQ was the FAQ answer from? That last one wasn't directed at you Giant2005 but at MikePGS.

You specifically said the question wasn't directed at me but I will go ahead and answer anyway
The FAQ can be found here: http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/ques ... ccpcc.html

It is completely unrelated to the topic but I think people should take a look at number 48

I think more should remember that those are FAN FAQ's and not PB cannon FAQ's they were all posted by Fans so are technically not canon. Your other find from BtS (kinda funny that a game and a supplement for an entirely different game has the same initials... with all the books though I guess not improbable though) is most certainly canon though.

[Armorlord]

I should note that discussion of Facades that seem 'True Atlantean' is mostly silly, considering that Atlanteans look (and technically actually are) Human, albeit with a higher average PB, as far as appearances go- something that Facades are very well established as being able to seem like.

[Zer0 Kay]

I should note that discussion of Facades that seem 'True Atlantean' is mostly silly, considering that Atlanteans look (and technically actually are) Human, albeit with a higher average PB, as far as appearances go- something that Facades are very well established as being able to seem like.

Don't TA's have pointy ears? Apparently an evolved human looses more body hair and grows pointy ears... ... ...