Rifts World Book Antarctica

[Vrykolas2k]

I'd like to see it, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Franfrickle]

they should make it. It's the last great continent and I'd love to see what all things popped up from it. Being a
HUGE Yautja Predator fan it would be sweet if they got the rights to make an RCC for them. One of my friends and I created a RCC for it when I first played Rifts and I've seen about 3 others on various sites and they all vary. It would be nice to see a set RCC for it and the ALien Species (Possible new threat to the Rifts World). I can also see various types of Mutant Penquins and Seals in the book as well as Lost Civilization Ruins re-emerging and some other great D-bees and monsters.

[taalismn]

They don't have the Yautja rights; that's why they have the Linotaur aliens...

[Dustin Fireblade]

Who is excited about this book?

What do you hope is in it?

Definitely NOT excited for it.


( Your poll forgot the Stargate option )

[Franfrickle]

They don't have the Yautja rights; that's why they have the Linotaur aliens...

Heck I know that, but I guy can have hopes thats why I said "if". First time I seen the Lanotaur I knew it was a knock-off, personally I think they made it way to powerful, even as an NPC in highlevel games it can be one tough SOB to survive which is fun but for a player that wants to roleplay one its almost impossible because of game balance. Hell I even had a Player want to play one as a Mystic Knight, in a merc campaign. LOL could you imagine that, when I said no he then asked to play it as a MindMelter.

[Vrykolas2k]

They don't have the Yautja rights; that's why they have the Linotaur aliens...

And riathenors.

[Franfrickle]

They don't have the Yautja rights; that's why they have the Linotaur aliens...

And riathenors.

Ya that's for sure another take on 'em, I can't remember what book they are in, was it one of Phaseworlds?
*Scratches head as it heats up trying to remember the simplest things,*
*Fleas: Oh no he's doing it again, Ouch! Runawayyyy*
...and sometimes I question my sanity...

[Franfrickle]

Tons of other books I would LOVE to see first, will probably not spend my money on this!

Very true, I'm still waiting for the Rift: Scotland I kept reading about... For years.

[abtex]

It's a poll on a Pole. I will buy it. If it may be. If creative thought is put in to it by the writer and not heavily edited so much the better.

[Todd Yoho]

This, of course, would be one of those instances where the forum posters don't represent a significant cross section of the Palladium customer base and the results can be (conveniently mocked and) ignored...

Speaking as someone who wrote two* books on "nothing" it's entirely possible that someone could write something acceptable to describe Rifts Antarctica and make a playable setting. However, I find it unlikely. This would not be on my top ten list of things to purchase. I have a feeling it will be yet another of those super secret special hidden societies of pure awesomeness that were cool tens of world books, and decades, ago. So, I definitely voted no. In fact, were I still a freelancer with unpublished manuscripts awaiting the pipeline, this would be a disincentive to produce further work. Why would I keep writing if things like this would be given priority over anything of mine that has been devoured by the black hole of completed manuscripts? No, I think an Antarctica book is emblematic of more than one issue here with Palladium.

*Really, 1.5, since half of Adventures bears the unmistakable mark of not something I wrote.

Also, thanks, Hilden. You are too kind to this cranky, old man.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I have a feeling it will be yet another of those super secret special hidden societies of pure awesomeness that were cool tens of world books, and decades, ago. S)

yup seems to be the trend now

[Kovoston]

What would happen to the Aroura Borealis (spelling) in a Rifts World setting? High P.P.E.?

[taalismn]

[
( Your poll forgot the Stargate option )

He also forgot Shoggoth, too....

[taalismn]

What would happen to the Aroura Borealis (spelling) in a Rifts World setting? High P.P.E.?

Since the phenomenon's dependent on sunspot activity, I'd say, not much..Unless the Sun's been butterfly-effected by the suddenly release of PPE in the solar system(and it's apparently also affected Mars) and is belching up solar flares(which would place the Orbitals at great risk), the auroras wouldn't be any more than usual.
HOWEVER! If the poles serve as ley line nexi, you could expect to see a lot of ley line activity closer to the ground, and increasing in intensity the closer you got to the polar nexi...lending an extra level of eldritch glow to the arctic wastes.

[glitterboy2098]

actually you could expect lots of ley line activity buried under 3 miles of ice.

remember, wb7 established that ley lines and rifts follow the flow of the solid land..which in antarctica is buried under a very thick ice pack. which means anything rifting in will immediately be entombed in ice.

[The Beast]

What would happen to the Aroura Borealis (spelling) in a Rifts World setting? High P.P.E.?

That's in the North, not in Antarctica.

They have them in the southern hemisphere too, it might be a different name though.

As for the book, I am now seriously thinking about why I'm continuing to support the company...

[Shawn Merrow]

The odds are strong that this was proposed and written by a freelancer. Its not like Kevin went to someone who was writing Rifts Lazlo and made them stop to work on this. I'm not sure what to think of this project but think its to early for the torches and pitchforks.

[Dead Boy]

Who is excited about this book?

It's Antarctica... It's literally a blank slate that a writer could do ANYTHING with. So it really depends on what the writer's concept is for developing the real estate. So I really can't give a solid answers beyond "tacos".

Personally I wrote a world book called Apex of the Earth about 16 years ago that developed the Arctic region down to the present-day tree-line because it was basically the same thing; a blank slate that one could do anything with. I was please with it then, Marryann liked enough to pass on to Kev... never heard back from him.

[glitterboy2098]

The odds are strong that this was proposed and written by a freelancer. Its not like Kevin went to someone who was writing Rifts Lazlo and made them stop to work on this. I'm not sure what to think of this project but think its to early for the torches and pitchforks.

honestly, the current feeling i think is closer to that you'd get if you literally waited all day in a resteraunt for your food to arrive, and they got the order wrong.
new books are great..but frankly, i don't think anyone was thinking "you know what book they really need to release? Antarctica, yeah thats the ticket!"

[Grell]

No thank you.

[Shawn Merrow]

The odds are strong that this was proposed and written by a freelancer. Its not like Kevin went to someone who was writing Rifts Lazlo and made them stop to work on this. I'm not sure what to think of this project but think its to early for the torches and pitchforks.

honestly, the current feeling i think is closer to that you'd get if you literally waited all day in a resteraunt for your food to arrive, and they got the order wrong.
new books are great..but frankly, i don't think anyone was thinking "you know what book they really need to release? Antarctica, yeah thats the ticket!"

More like your sitting at dinner and someone new came in with a dish and asked if you were interested in it. If this was done by a freelancer it did not stop work from being done on any other project and won't till it goes to editing. If the freelancer was told not to write Rifts Antarctica it just means they did not work on anything at all not that they were kept from working on something you were more interested in.

[Dead Boy]

Who is excited about this book?

It's Antarctica... It's literally a blank slate that a writer could do ANYTHING with. So it really depends on what the writer's concept is for developing the real estate. So I really can't give a solid answers beyond "tacos".

Personally I wrote a world book called Apex of the Earth about 16 years ago that developed the Arctic region down to the present-day tree-line because it was basically the same thing; a blank slate that one could do anything with. I was please with it then, Marryann liked enough to pass on to Kev... never heard back from him.

But it's not a blank slate you can do anything with. If you mess with the climate it would have consequences that would affect the entire globe. Humans can't survive there, only a select few plants and animals can survive there, so unless you go with all the usual Pally cliches I can't see how someone would be able to make it interesting enough to have an entire WB dedicated to it.

You're limiting yourself waaaaaaaaaaaay too much. Say the writer opted to go in the direction to have a Human presence there. With the continent being the ONLY place on Earth not touched by the nukes of the Great Cataclysm, the bases there would benefit from cutting edge Golden Age super-tech. It's possible that by 2098 the scientific outpost of Antarctica could have become self-sufficient, so they could have gone on! In fact, if that were the case, it could have preserved the climate of the Golden Age, including it's politics. As it happens to be (in real life too) Antarctica is a very interesting place politically speaking with the continent belonging to all the major nations on Earth, with political lines drawn like a big pie (Map Link, keep clicking the map to the side; it gets BIG). Argentina, Australia, Chile, France, New Zealand, Norway and the United Kingdom all have territorial claims, and the lines are ALWAYS in dispute even in peace time. The USA's turf is smack dab in the middle! And yea, Russia is a big player here too! So what would happen if the dark side of Golden Age politics were allowed to fester for 300 years in a land with scarce resources? What kind of blame game would come out of the Great Cataclysm? Did it erupt into a shooting war, a cold war, or a mix thereof? Was there a war and one side (or an alliance of sides) come out the victor?

There's a wealth of possibilities that could spring up from that set-up alone! Add in alien invaders, the supernatural, the discovery of magic and psychic phenomenon, and you could have one hell of a book!

Or the author could go in an entirely different direction. Like I said, its a blank slate.

[krispy]

i for one would buy it

i am curious as to the level of connection the book would have with Australia and South America

[Mallak's Place]

The Coalition is there with a Battalion of anthropomorphic Penguins.

[CyCo]

If it's the BCL manuscript, then I'd buy it. If it isn't his manuscript, then I won't touch it.

[Grell]

Who is excited about this book?

It's Antarctica... It's literally a blank slate that a writer could do ANYTHING with. So it really depends on what the writer's concept is for developing the real estate. So I really can't give a solid answers beyond "tacos".

Personally I wrote a world book called Apex of the Earth about 16 years ago that developed the Arctic region down to the present-day tree-line because it was basically the same thing; a blank slate that one could do anything with. I was please with it then, Marryann liked enough to pass on to Kev... never heard back from him.

But it's not a blank slate you can do anything with. If you mess with the climate it would have consequences that would affect the entire globe. Humans can't survive there, only a select few plants and animals can survive there, so unless you go with all the usual Pally cliches I can't see how someone would be able to make it interesting enough to have an entire WB dedicated to it.

You're limiting yourself waaaaaaaaaaaay too much. Say the writer opted to go in the direction to have a Human presence there. With the continent being the ONLY place on Earth not touched by the nukes of the Great Cataclysm, the bases there would benefit from cutting edge Golden Age super-tech. It's possible that by 2098 the scientific outpost of Antarctica could have become self-sufficient, so they could have gone on! In fact, if that were the case, it could have preserved the climate of the Golden Age, including it's politics. As it happens to be (in real life too) Antarctica is a very interesting place politically speaking with the continent belonging to all the major nations on Earth, with political lines drawn like a big pie (Map Link, keep clicking the map to the side; it gets BIG). Argentina, Australia, Chile, France, New Zealand, Norway and the United Kingdom all have territorial claims, and the lines are ALWAYS in dispute even in peace time. The USA's turf is smack dab in the middle! And yea, Russia is a big player here too! So what would happen if the dark side of Golden Age politics were allowed to fester for 300 years in a land with scarce resources? What kind of blame game would come out of the Great Cataclysm? Did it erupt into a shooting war, a cold war, or a mix thereof? Was there a war and one side (or an alliance of sides) come out the victor?

There's a wealth of possibilities that could spring up from that set-up alone! Add in alien invaders, the supernatural, the discovery of magic and psychic phenomenon, and you could have one hell of a book!

Or the author could go in an entirely different direction. Like I said, its a blank slate.

I like your ideas! Any chance YOU could write the book?

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

...With the continent being the ONLY place on Earth not touched by the nukes of the Great Cataclysm...

Nukes of the Great Cataclysm? Nukes really weren't the problem, it was the disasters caused by the surging ley line energy. Nukes got the ball rolling in South America, but played the most minor of roles in the downfall of mankind that followed. There is no reason to believe Antarctica was spared destruction just because nukes never landed there.

~ Josh

[Shark_Force]

The odds are strong that this was proposed and written by a freelancer. Its not like Kevin went to someone who was writing Rifts Lazlo and made them stop to work on this. I'm not sure what to think of this project but think its to early for the torches and pitchforks.

honestly, the current feeling i think is closer to that you'd get if you literally waited all day in a resteraunt for your food to arrive, and they got the order wrong.
new books are great..but frankly, i don't think anyone was thinking "you know what book they really need to release? Antarctica, yeah thats the ticket!"

More like your sitting at dinner and someone new came in with a dish and asked if you were interested in it. If this was done by a freelancer it did not stop work from being done on any other project and won't till it goes to editing. If the freelancer was told not to write Rifts Antarctica it just means they did not work on anything at all not that they were kept from working on something you were more interested in.

yes, but if it does go into the publishing pile, it's going to delay other books because every single book still has to go through kevin. expressing our disinterest *now* means that we're (a very tiny bit) less likely to have to deal with it being put into the pipeline later and preventing something that we really really really want coming out.

if this book getting published did not mean kevin is likely to spend a month or more on it and it alone, or if there was someone else in parallel working to get those finishing touches put into the book, fine. but there isn't. if this ever goes to print, it will (because of the way palladium operates, with everything going through kevin) delay other books. it is inevitable.

[glitterboy2098]

...With the continent being the ONLY place on Earth not touched by the nukes of the Great Cataclysm...

Nukes of the Great Cataclysm? Nukes really weren't the problem, it was the disasters caused by the surging ley line energy. Nukes got the ball rolling in South America, but played the most minor of roles in the downfall of mankind that followed. There is no reason to believe Antarctica was spared destruction just because nukes never landed there.

~ Josh

yep.

the bases there would benefit from cutting edge Golden Age super-tech. It's possible that by 2098 the scientific outpost of Antarctica could have become self-sufficient, so they could have gone on!

self-sufficent? using what resources? the antarctic has no accessable natural resources. even golden age supertech requires raw materials. there is no iron, copper, aluminum, zinc, etc. available for use down there.

including it's politics. As it happens to be (in real life too) Antarctica is a very interesting place politically speaking with the continent belonging to all the major nations on Earth, with political lines drawn like a big pie (Map Link, keep clicking the map to the side; it gets BIG). Argentina, Australia, Chile, France, New Zealand, Norway and the United Kingdom all have territorial claims, and the lines are ALWAYS in dispute even in peace time.

and none of those nations actually care whether their claims overlap or not, since the Antarctic treaty sets the continent aside as a international zone to be used by all nations. and the only stuff down there is aa handful of small scientific outposts.

when the entire world decides "nope, nothing down there worth fighting over", you can't really call it politics.

So what would happen if the dark side of Golden Age politics were allowed to fester for 300 years in a land with scarce resources?

nothing, since the entire region south of the 60th parrarel is a military free zone? and that any outpost on there would be dead within the first year of the 2nd dark age due to spare parts shortages? assuming of ocurse the outposts don't just load up onto ships and sail away, which is the rational and sensible thing to do.

Did it erupt into a shooting war, a cold war, or a mix thereof? Was there a war and one side (or an alliance of sides) come out the victor?

shooting war? with what weapons? snowballs? the entire continet is weapons free..and not likely to change, since there is nothing worth fighting over.

[Nightmask]

the bases there would benefit from cutting edge Golden Age super-tech. It's possible that by 2098 the scientific outpost of Antarctica could have become self-sufficient, so they could have gone on!

self-sufficent? using what resources? the antarctic has no accessable natural resources. even golden age supertech requires raw materials. there is no iron, copper, aluminum, zinc, etc. available for use down there.

So far as you know, it's not like we've got complete knowledge of even many heavily populated and explored countries let alone such remote areas like Antarctica. Also the degree to which Golden Age super-tech requires those metals is debatable, once you reach the point you can create MDC ceramics and possibly Room temperature semiconductors (which again may not even require metals) what we consider as essential materials changes drastically.

The main concern is power (supplied by Solar Panels most likely, as being cut off they wouldn't have access to the radioactives necessary to power a nuclear generator indefinitely), life support, and food. Following this is concerns of inbreeding and ability to expand and grow the base. Parts breaking down is likely rare with such super-tech (Glitter Boys for example as explicitly noted as being almost maintenance free and as an example of this pinnacle technology) and as long as you had a few spares and proper recycling facilities you could recycle the broken parts into new spares.

While every system has some loss it would be minimal and a base established to be self-sufficient or with a reasonable range of facilities could retool to be self-sufficient and let's face it cut off from the rest of the world because of some cataclysm they're going to be doing everything that they can to deal with minimum survival needs like the Space Colonies did. They weren't originally established to be self-sufficient either but were forced to retool in order to make it possible.

[glitterboy2098]

the bases there would benefit from cutting edge Golden Age super-tech. It's possible that by 2098 the scientific outpost of Antarctica could have become self-sufficient, so they could have gone on!

self-sufficent? using what resources? the antarctic has no accessable natural resources. even golden age supertech requires raw materials. there is no iron, copper, aluminum, zinc, etc. available for use down there.

So far as you know, it's not like we've got complete knowledge of even many heavily populated and explored countries let alone such remote areas like Antarctica.

let me reiterate...again... this one fact. any resources availabe in antarctica are buried under over a mile of dense ice.
there is only a little exposed geology, and it's mainly useless volcanic basalts.

Also the degree to which Golden Age super-tech requires those metals is debatable, once you reach the point you can create MDC ceramics and possibly Room temperature semiconductors (which again may not even require metals) what we consider as essential materials changes drastically.

by canon MDC materials are a special formulation of steel. superconductors and similar exotic materials require rare earths and minerals in very specific forms to make.

and much of the systems on rifts hardware (computers, motors, etc) are conventional materials.

The main concern is power (supplied by Solar Panels most likely, as being cut off they wouldn't have access to the radioactives necessary to power a nuclear generator indefinitely), life support, and food.

power requires wiring, generators, mounting systems, amplifiers, transformers, and so on. and like the new york black out of 1977, all it takes is one system breaking to stop all of it.
life support requires heating systems, air circulation, dehumidifiers, thermostats, computer controls...and if they fail, your likely to freeze before you could build a new part.
food requires lighting arrays, climate control, nutrient supplies, and so on. all things that are unlikely to be produced locally.

and of course medicines (which are highly specialized production), clothing (old stuff will eventually wear out), and spare parts for all the systems maintaining the previous items.

Following this is concerns of inbreeding and ability to expand and grow the base. Parts breaking down is likely rare with such super-tech (Glitter Boys for example as explicitly noted as being almost maintenance free and as an example of this pinnacle technology) and as long as you had a few spares and proper recycling facilities you could recycle the broken parts into new spares.

except there isn't any canon support for such claims, and there still isn't any raw materials to make spares from in the first place.

and you can't "recycle a broken part" to make a new part, since you'd loose a good portion of the original materials during the recycling process. (between some parts including materials too difficult to recycle, the fact a broken or bad part usually means a lose of some material fro mthe part, and the fact no recycling system is ever 100% efficent)

While every system has some loss it would be minimal and a base established to be self-sufficient or with a reasonable range of facilities could retool to be self-sufficient and let's face it cut off from the rest of the world because of some cataclysm they're going to be doing everything that they can to deal with minimum survival needs like the Space Colonies did. They weren't originally established to be self-sufficient either but were forced to retool in order to make it possible.

the difference is that the space colonies had the moon and near earth asteroids they could mine for raw materials, mettalic, non-mettalic, and organic. prior to the cataclysm it wouldn't have been economical to do so in such scale, but it was possible ot reach them and obtain those resources.

in antarctica all your resources are buried under over a mile of dense, contantly shifting, icepack. there isn't any easily accessable raw materials to work with, and because the ice is constantly shifting, digging thorugh the ice won't work since you'd be more likely to be crushed when the glacier shifts than you are to reach any raw materials.

[Bood Samel]

This, of course, would be one of those instances where the forum posters don't represent a significant cross section of the Palladium customer base and the results can be (conveniently mocked and) ignored...

Speaking as someone who wrote two* books on "nothing" it's entirely possible that someone could write something acceptable to describe Rifts Antarctica and make a playable setting. However, I find it unlikely. This would not be on my top ten list of things to purchase. I have a feeling it will be yet another of those super secret special hidden societies of pure awesomeness that were cool tens of world books, and decades, ago. So, I definitely voted no. In fact, were I still a freelancer with unpublished manuscripts awaiting the pipeline, this would be a disincentive to produce further work. Why would I keep writing if things like this would be given priority over anything of mine that has been devoured by the black hole of completed manuscripts? No, I think an Antarctica book is emblematic of more than one issue here with Palladium.

*Really, 1.5, since half of Adventures bears the unmistakable mark of not something I wrote.

Also, thanks, Hilden. You are too kind to this cranky, old man.

Todd Yoho wrote some great rifts books. I find these comments to be worrisome as its not the first time we've heard things like this before from people who wrote for palladium. I've always thought palladium were great people and I love their games. Nor do I want to discredit the potential for the book or the writer who wrote it. I'm sure it'll be neat in and of itself. But if there really are piles of manuscripts for books that we all want far sooner then antarctica then I'm not left with a posistive feeling.

Yoho did a great job with the dinosaur swamps, an area I never gave much thought before. I would rather see delta blues, voodoo, and dark woods far sooner then antarctica. Let alone chi-town, NG, lazlo, etc..

[drewkitty ~..~]

Voted "Will there be Predators and Aliens?" in place of "About Time."

[Vrykolas2k]

It's a continent. Sure, it has ice but it still has land. And so what if the ice melted? It's a world in which demons, angels, mutants, super science, magic, psionics, etc exist side by side. Heck, it even has some time travel. Natural disasters like the ice of Antarctica would be bad but it's called the Great Cataclysm for a reason.

Antarctica? I could see bionic penguins, psionic seals, the Mountain of Madness, perhaps a jump-gate, or even a hockey player OCC. Seriously, if it's written to have odd yet familiar material in a unique presentation, I could see it work. With PPE flowing along leylines, it is possible some of the ice melted to reveal ancient D-Bee cities or newly transported ones.

Do you have any idea what effects the ice melting would have on not only the continent but the entire globe? If you are going to take away Antarctica being a frozen wasteland then it's not really Antarctica is it?

90% of the worlds ice is found on that continent. If the ice sheet melts it stops one of the most important events in our world the flow of warm and cold water in the Atlantic ocean. This causes in ice age and we all know that an ice age doesn't end as quick as 300 years. Saying "It's rifts! It's ok for the ice sheet to melt" is a foolish answer when something like is a fact and that would make our world a frozen ball of ice again.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Nightmask]

Seeing as this happening would end Rifts earth as we know it, yes it is a bad thing.

There isn't enough water in Antarctica to do that, it'd destroy all the coastal regions but the vast majority would remain, and there's always the possibility of large amounts of ice being rifted into other dimensions or swapped with land in those place like happened in other areas of Rifts Earth. Could be some impressive hidden resources there that resulted from a land swap with another world.

[Dead Boy]

...With the continent being the ONLY place on Earth not touched by the nukes of the Great Cataclysm...

Nukes of the Great Cataclysm? Nukes really weren't the problem, it was the disasters caused by the surging ley line energy. Nukes got the ball rolling in South America, but played the most minor of roles in the downfall of mankind that followed. There is no reason to believe Antarctica was spared destruction just because nukes never landed there.

~ Josh

Firstly, though the nukes were far from the only problem during the Great Cataclysm, they were a factor, and they hit more than just South America. Secondly, with the weather in Antarctica being as savage as it already is, the storms that tore civilization apart in the rest of the world would be just slightly above average for them. A lot (if not all) of the facilities are burred in the ice, making them quasi-subterranean already. Earthquakes (and not many since the continent is very geologically stable) and long-term supplies are the bigger concern for them, and if they could become self-sufficient by 2098 (as per in the scenario above) the Antarctic community could ride out anything shy of the moon crashing into the Earth (maybe a little hyperbole there, but not much).

[Dead Boy]

the bases there would benefit from cutting edge Golden Age super-tech. It's possible that by 2098 the scientific outpost of Antarctica could have become self-sufficient, so they could have gone on!

self-sufficent? using what resources? the antarctic has no accessable natural resources. even golden age supertech requires raw materials. there is no iron, copper, aluminum, zinc, etc. available for use down there.

Your google-fu is weak.

http://www.globalclassroom.org/antarct3.html

Choice Exerts:

Spoiler:

"Much of what we know about the geology of Antarctica and about the minerals
present is based on what we know about the geology of South America, South
Africa, and Australia. For example, if minerals found in the rocks that
were formed before the break up of Gondwana are found in the mountains of
South America, then we assume that we will find the same minerals in the
mountains of Antarctica. This is because we can assume that they were
formed at the same time and with the same basic processes.

Many people believe that Antarctica is a place of unlimited resource wealth.
But the harsh climate, short work season, and thick ice make the recovery of
these resources very difficult.

Antarctica Resources:

• Ice (with water being one of the most essential elements to survival)
• Coal
• Petroleum
• Vanadium
• Iron
• Cobalt
• Chromium
• Nickel
• Copper
• Platinum
• Manganese
• Uranium
• Lead

So what would happen if the dark side of Golden Age politics were allowed to fester for 300 years in a land with scarce resources?

nothing, since the entire region south of the 60th parrarel is a military free zone? and that any outpost on there would be dead within the first year of the 2nd dark age due to spare parts shortages? assuming of ocurse the outposts don't just load up onto ships and sail away, which is the rational and sensible thing to do.

And you know this is being enforced... how again? Apparently someone didn't read the book Ice Station.

The entire continent is also a media-free zone too by default. As far as we really know, there already has been an eruption of hostilities down there that never went reported.

Fast forward 100 years into a post-apocalyptic setting where the scarce resources there are all they have to work with, and things could get interesting. Cut off from the rest of the world, as far as they know, they are the last survivors of the human race and the rest of the world is a radioactive wasteland.

[strtkwr]

...With the continent being the ONLY place on Earth not touched by the nukes of the Great Cataclysm...

Nukes of the Great Cataclysm? Nukes really weren't the problem, it was the disasters caused by the surging ley line energy. Nukes got the ball rolling in South America, but played the most minor of roles in the downfall of mankind that followed. There is no reason to believe Antarctica was spared destruction just because nukes never landed there.

~ Josh

Firstly, though the nukes were far from the only problem during the Great Cataclysm, they were a factor, and they hit more than just South America. Secondly, with the weather in Antarctica being as savage as it already is, the storms that tore civilization apart in the rest of the world would be just slightly above average for them. A lot (if not all) of the facilities are burred in the ice, making them quasi-subterranean already. Earthquakes (and not many since the continent is very geologically stable) and long-term supplies are the bigger concern for them, and if they could become self-sufficient by 2098 (as per in the scenario above) the Antarctic community could ride out anything shy of the moon crashing into the Earth (maybe a little hyperbole there, but not much).

Actually, according to Chaos Earth, the nuclear exchange took place between two SA nations, so I am not sure where you are getting that the exchange took place outside of SA.

Spoiler:

On December 22, 2098, the two South American nations
struck at each other with a limited (very limited) exchange of
outdated nuclear weapons. Millions of lives perished in a heartbeat.
The brutal event in and of itself would have been horrible,
but an isolated incident with minimal direct impact on the rest of
the world. What nobody could appreciate was the nature of the
ley lines and magic that had laid dormant for millennia.

[The Beast]

...With the continent being the ONLY place on Earth not touched by the nukes of the Great Cataclysm...

Nukes of the Great Cataclysm? Nukes really weren't the problem, it was the disasters caused by the surging ley line energy. Nukes got the ball rolling in South America, but played the most minor of roles in the downfall of mankind that followed. There is no reason to believe Antarctica was spared destruction just because nukes never landed there.

~ Josh

Firstly, though the nukes were far from the only problem during the Great Cataclysm, they were a factor, and they hit more than just South America. Secondly, with the weather in Antarctica being as savage as it already is, the storms that tore civilization apart in the rest of the world would be just slightly above average for them. A lot (if not all) of the facilities are burred in the ice, making them quasi-subterranean already. Earthquakes (and not many since the continent is very geologically stable) and long-term supplies are the bigger concern for them, and if they could become self-sufficient by 2098 (as per in the scenario above) the Antarctic community could ride out anything shy of the moon crashing into the Earth (maybe a little hyperbole there, but not much).

Actually, according to Chaos Earth, the nuclear exchange took place between two SA nations, so I am not sure where you are getting that the exchange took place outside of SA.

Spoiler:

On December 22, 2098, the two South American nations
struck at each other with a limited (very limited) exchange of
outdated nuclear weapons. Millions of lives perished in a heartbeat.
The brutal event in and of itself would have been horrible,
but an isolated incident with minimal direct impact on the rest of
the world. What nobody could appreciate was the nature of the
ley lines and magic that had laid dormant for millennia.

IIRC in MiO a few of the automated killer sats misinterpeted what was happening for an all-out nuclear strike and responded accordingly, but I think that was a limited response, not every sat in orbit launching. That's the main reason the Japanese station is now the Graveyard.

[strtkwr]

Seeing as this happening would end Rifts earth as we know it, yes it is a bad thing.

There isn't enough water in Antarctica to do that, it'd destroy all the coastal regions but the vast majority would remain, and there's always the possibility of large amounts of ice being rifted into other dimensions or swapped with land in those place like happened in other areas of Rifts Earth. Could be some impressive hidden resources there that resulted from a land swap with another world.

Ok what part of 90% of the worlds ice do you not understand? If only 10% of the Arctic (you know the the north pole) ice melts it stops the ocean currents and raises ocean levels by five feet, this isn't opinion it's Fact Nightmask. There are more problems then just raising of the ocean levels from melting the ice or RIFTING parts of the ice sheet out which is destructive to the finite balance that allows life to live on planet earth. This would cause a tilt in our rotation and effect the the speed at which we travel around the sun. What you are saying is to ignore the FACTS of the planet that allow human and most life to live on it. So in a summary you are wrong on all counts Nightmask.

Overall, the lost civilzation being rediscovered has been used to death in previous books (IMHO), so I don't think I would be very interested in this book if that was the case. An outpost struggling to survive for centuries against the elements has more potential.

[Nightmask]

I think he is talking about the sheer amount of fresh water that would flush into the salt water which would desalinate the oceans, not just the ice melting and raising sea level.

The oceans make up two-thirds of the planet, the ice caps aren't going to dilute that to the point the oceans come anywhere close to being fresh. It will cause problems for the ocean currents I agree, we're already seeing problems from the deterioration of the ice caps and the problems of too many ice bergs and their melt hitting critical heat transfer currents in the oceans.

[Nightmask]

Seeing as this happening would end Rifts earth as we know it, yes it is a bad thing.

There isn't enough water in Antarctica to do that, it'd destroy all the coastal regions but the vast majority would remain, and there's always the possibility of large amounts of ice being rifted into other dimensions or swapped with land in those place like happened in other areas of Rifts Earth. Could be some impressive hidden resources there that resulted from a land swap with another world.

Ok what part of 90% of the worlds ice do you not understand? If only 10% of the Arctic (you know the the north pole) ice melts it stops the ocean currents and raises ocean levels by five feet, this isn't opinion it's Fact Nightmask. There are more problems then just raising of the ocean levels from melting the ice or RIFTING parts of the ice sheet out which is destructive to the finite balance that allows life to live on planet earth. This would cause a tilt in our rotation and effect the the speed at which we travel around the sun. What you are saying is to ignore the FACTS of the planet that allow human and most life to live on it. So in a summary you are wrong on all counts Nightmask.

90% of its ice, not its water, what part of that don't you understand? Also as far at the affect on our axial tilt is concerned that's a theory, we don't know that to be a fact. Particularly with the effort to claim it'd affect our speed around the sun, such events haven't yet they aren't likely to start doing so now. Mass shifting around on this planet isn't going to affect our overall mass as far as the sun is concerned and if it actually could affect our speed it would kill us because we'd slow, move in closer to the sun, and end up like Venus. In regards to life surviving on this planet, it's survived ice ages, steamy jungle conditions, magnetic reversals, etc. for hundreds of millions of years just fine. Whether it'd be sufficient to qualify as an extinction level event for Humanity is the main question, have we as a species reached the point that a catastrophic event to the climate like the ice caps melting would fail to eliminate us and we could continue on.

So in summary, you don't have what it takes to speak to facts and declare me wrong on any count, just your opinions and theories to go on.

[glitterboy2098]

if antarctic ice melted, sea levels would rise about 200ft, flooding about a quarter of the worlds current dry land. florida would be gone entirely, as would be most of the east coast, as well as a good portion of california. alot of europe, south america, and africa would be under water too.

the influx of water will disrupt ocean currents, throwing the entire planets weather into flux and potentially severly disrupting oceanic ecosystems (phytoplankton tends to be very sensitive to short term changes in water salinity, temp, and density.)

the continetal plate the current ice shelf rests on will shift due to the loss of weight, causing it to rise. this will displace some additional water, as well as disrupt ocean currents further.

Axial shift is a very good probability, since any change in the mass distribution of our planet (and that much ice is a lot of mass in one place) will cause an axial shift. the predictions for the ice sheet melting is 500 meters of shift..small by planetary scales, but enough to alter the seasons enough to cause some ecological damage.

[Sureshot]

Not that excited. Way more interesting books to be published first. It also has to be pretty spectualar to sway some liike myself dissapointed in it being given more of a priority. All that I ask if their is a hidden society in that area that it be a good aligned one. Tired of all the evil ones on rifts earth. The good guys imo dieserve a break. If they are good I also do not want to see some super secret evil faction just waiting to destroy it from within. That has been done way too many times.

[Dead Boy]

...With the continent being the ONLY place on Earth not touched by the nukes of the Great Cataclysm...

Nukes of the Great Cataclysm? Nukes really weren't the problem, it was the disasters caused by the surging ley line energy. Nukes got the ball rolling in South America, ...

Firstly, though the nukes were far from the only problem during the Great Cataclysm, they were a factor, and they hit more than just South America. Secondly, with the weather in Antarctica being as savage as it already is, the storms that tore civilization apart in the rest of the world would be just slightly above average for them. A lot (if not all) of the facilities are burred in the ice, making them quasi-subterranean already.

Actually, according to Chaos Earth, the nuclear exchange took place between two SA nations, so I am not sure where you are getting that the exchange took place outside of SA.

Spoiler:

On December 22, 2098, the two South American nations
struck at each other with a limited (very limited) exchange of
outdated nuclear weapons. Millions of lives perished in a heartbeat.
The brutal event in and of itself would have been horrible,
but an isolated incident with minimal direct impact on the rest of
the world. What nobody could appreciate was the nature of the
ley lines and magic that had laid dormant for millennia.

What the?!? ... First it was all out nuclear war, then it was a rift experiment at Lone Star, now the cause is pretty much "bad luck"? Seriously, bad luck? A few million dead + a just-so-timed planetary aliment + the time being midnight when it happened + the nuked city just happened to be on a major nexus point = Magic Apocalypse?

Here's another citing for ya that tells a different tale.

"Nuclear holocaust ignited the destruction of the world as we know it, but it was not the primary instrument of destruction. The sudden destruction of a billion people triggered a surge in the ley lines." RMB pg 7

Here’s another:

“To compound the danger, secret military satellites interpreted the activity on the surface of Earth as war and responded, as programmed, by attacking military targets, both on the planet below and in space” MiO pg 56 (though there is some ambiguous language about the extent of the nuclear weapons’ contribution to triggering the apocalypse below.)

So, bottom line: Not an isolated nuclear exchange... "nuclear holocaust"...."billions" dead as a result of wide-spread nuclear infernos. THEN came the Ley Lines and the resulting geological turmoil. God how I hate inconsistent retcon B.S. I know it was Kevin Siembieda who slapped his name on the book, but shame on whoever it was who originally wrote Chaos Earth (wasn't it originally going to be a multi-part Rifter article?).

*sigh*

Ya know what? Ultimately this doesn't even matter to the scenario at hand. The population of Antarctica would already be safely dug in at the time of the Great Cataclysm (regardless of the cause). And Chaos Earth supports the heightened political tensions given the rise of the Second Cold War. It's still a viable angle for the book.

[Nightmask]

What the?!? ... First it was all out nuclear war, then it was a rift experiment at Lone Star, now the cause is pretty much "bad luck"? Seriously, bad luck? A few million dead + a just-so-timed planetary aliment + the time being midnight when it happened + the nuked city just happened to be on a major nexus point = Magic Apocalypse?

Here's another citing for ya that tells a different tale.

"Nuclear holocaust ignited the destruction of the world as we know it, but it was not the primary instrument of destruction. The sudden destruction of a billion people triggered a surge in the ley lines." RMB pg 7

It was never an experiment at Lone Star, don't know how you ever got that idea. Lone Star simply had the misfortune of starting up its Dimensional Gateway equipment for a minor test at the same time the Cataclysm was occurring causing the experiment to run out of control and rift everyone off to some other dimension or disintegrate them outright.

A limited nuclear engagement is still a holocaust when you're targeting population centers and in the Golden Age of Man one can imagine even poorer countries had much higher populations than we have on Earth today, and once you killed enough people at the wrong time the chain reaction is started and the fresh deaths just end up feeding things as it runs out of control.

Here’s another:

“To compound the danger, secret military satellites interpreted the activity on the surface of Earth as war and responded, as programmed, by attacking military targets, both on the planet below and in space” MiO pg 56 (though there is some ambiguous language about the extent of the nuclear weapons’ contribution to triggering the apocalypse below.)

They compounded things by adding to the death toll, killing people who would have otherwise survived the Cataclysm, the event itself was already in a runaway condition and even if the satellites hadn't done anything what happened would have still happened.

So, bottom line: Not an isolated nuclear exchange... "nuclear holocaust"...."billions" dead as a result of wide-spread nuclear infernos. THEN came the Ley Lines and the resulting geological turmoil. God how I hate inconsistent retcon B.S. I know it was Kevin Siembieda who slapped his name on the book, but shame on whoever it was who originally wrote Chaos Earth (wasn't it originally going to be a multi-part Rifter article?).

A misreading of the texts; the original limited nuclear exchange occurred feeding PPE into the Ley Lines at a vulnerable moment which triggered the eruption of Rifts which caused the Lone Star Experiment to go out of control and as the Rifts were rising up and surging with PPE they killed more people which fed more PPE into things causing more Rifts and into that chaos the killsats in space took potshots at targets on the ground. It's not an inconsistent retcon, a limited exchange is just that, it was restricted to two small countries and not a global event. While the exchange was limited however the number of people included in the blast radius need not be and wasn't. If our two more populated states had a nuclear exchange that pretty much wiped out their populations it'd still be a limited exchange but the death toll would be massive and pre-Cataclysm Rifts Earth was a century ahead of us in racking up population.

[Nightmask]

Seems Glitterboy pointed out the facts to you Nightmask you are just choosing to ignore them, but have fun with that.

Estimates and theories, not facts. 'Probably' and 'may' aren't facts, and you can continue to insist that they're facts just to be contrary as much as you like but it won't make it so. Also of no particular relevance to a discussion about an RPG set in a post-Apocalyptic sci-fi/fantasy world where parts of the planet have literally between swapped with other worlds and the environment subjected to uncounted events beyond scientific consideration.

It's entirely possible for an RPG setting to have factors not present in the real world that prevent real world theories of what could occur from happening, so the ice caps could melt without raising the oceans levels or disrupting its axial tilt so it's a moot point to try and insist 'well that's what'll happen in the real world, because I think theory is fact not theory so it must happen in the game too' because that's just not so.

[Illendaver]

It's a continent. Sure, it has ice but it still has land. And so what if the ice melted? It's a world in which demons, angels, mutants, super science, magic, psionics, etc exist side by side. Heck, it even has some time travel. Natural disasters like the ice of Antarctica would be bad but it's called the Great Cataclysm for a reason.

Antarctica? I could see bionic penguins, psionic seals, the Mountain of Madness, perhaps a jump-gate, or even a hockey player OCC. Seriously, if it's written to have odd yet familiar material in a unique presentation, I could see it work. With PPE flowing along leylines, it is possible some of the ice melted to reveal ancient D-Bee cities or newly transported ones.

Do you have any idea what effects the ice melting would have on not only the continent but the entire globe? If you are going to take away Antarctica being a frozen wasteland then it's not really Antarctica is it?

90% of the worlds ice is found on that continent. If the ice sheet melts it stops one of the most important events in our world the flow of warm and cold water in the Atlantic ocean. This causes in ice age and we all know that an ice age doesn't end as quick as 300 years. Saying "It's rifts! It's ok for the ice sheet to melt" is a foolish answer when something like is a fact and that would make our world a frozen ball of ice again.

Considering how a huge chunk of the east coast of america is underwater, it sounds like some of the ice has already melted. Maybe enough for a mile around all the ley lines in antartica? Ta-da, now it makes sense (if you stretch your imagination. And if you cant do that, what are you trying to play rifts for anyways?)

[Illendaver]

Your google-fu is weak.

Mind if I sig that?

[Nightmask]

Seems Glitterboy pointed out the facts to you Nightmask you are just choosing to ignore them, but have fun with that.

Estimates and theories, not facts. 'Probably' and 'may' aren't facts, and you can continue to insist that they're facts just to be contrary as much as you like but it won't make it so. Also of no particular relevance to a discussion about an RPG set in a post-Apocalyptic sci-fi/fantasy world where parts of the planet have literally between swapped with other worlds and the environment subjected to uncounted events beyond scientific consideration.

It's entirely possible for an RPG setting to have factors not present in the real world that prevent real world theories of what could occur from happening, so the ice caps could melt without raising the oceans levels or disrupting its axial tilt so it's a moot point to try and insist 'well that's what'll happen in the real world, because I think theory is fact not theory so it must happen in the game too' because that's just not so.

Ok first the only true D-shift of land is Atlantis,(this explains the raising of water levels on rifts earth) and it was linked to Earth, The Yucatan is both there and not there it's mass is still connected to mexico and the planet. Next On your the Ice caps could melt thing, Fill a glass of water up and drop a few ice cubes in it, and tell me what happens to the water. Next I can suspend my disbelieving nature quite a bit but something like Antarctica not being a frozen wasteland/desert I can't do. I can not see nor envision the need for this world book, and I have pointed out along with others why. If you think a none Frozen Antarctica (keep in mind this is just a theory to make it a playable place) is awesome good for you, have fun with that thought but when a game drops all verisimilitude and ignores what makes a place what it loses any playing appeal.
Most facts point out that the Continent doesn't support human life, there is and never have been any native peoples of the Continent. A secret sect as others have pointed out is just over played on Rifts earth and frankly boring at this point, next the way Antarctica is divided up by the international community, makes the idea of long terms survival after the great cataclysm even harder to swallow.
As I said I don't want this book ahead of other more desired books. Delta blues is one, Sovitiski, The Two BtS books to make the game playable. Antarctica is low on my lists of must see books.

Atlantis isn't the only shift, even for the flavor text of the Cataclysm it notes that parts of the world were trading places with other worlds and there's at least one spot where three cities rifted in from alternate realities one of those pieces even being from Wormwood, the other two were a city of super-mages capable of facing off against dragons and the other an experimental city from a parallel Earth where the coming of the Rifts never occurred.

I also never said anything about going with a setting where the ice caps have melted, only pointed out it's not a given even in the real world let alone in a fantasy setting with beyond the fantastic variables to consider. I don't think of it as any place people would be setting up either short of having run there after the collapse and took what they needed to set up a base or colony where the worst of the events and such hadn't reached.

I wouldn't go looking for it as my next favored book out from Palladium either, even if seeing the unique tech thought up for such an environment would be nice to check out. Not quite sure what I'd favor seeing for a new book, haven't thought on in it much.