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Soverntear wrote:So It seems the best class for guns is a toss up between the gun fighter and gun slinger. I'm leaning towards the gun fighter due to his modify and repair ability. only thing is i can not find a decent rcc with high pp. highest i have found is 4d6. Please note things like god lings, demi gods and such my gm will most likely not allow.

4D6 is probably the best your going to get.
Depending on your gm's interpretation of the rules, he may or may not allow "exploding dice".
if he doesnt, and your only concern is high PP, then a human that rolls 16-18 with bonus dice may be your best choice.

to clarify, i mean "may or may not allow exploding dice for races other than humans."

Catyr from Phase World have a 4d6+6 P.P. which is the highest I've seen for a playable RCC in any book. Since they're part of Phase World though it's be a stretch RP wise to find one in New West. Quick Flex Alien out of Coalition Campaign I've found works the best with a Gunfighter since they get auto dodge, a good PP, and even more bonuses to attack with guns

i could have swore i read a post once that said the gun brother O.C.C. was superior to those classes.
am i misremembering?

i dont have my books in front of me so i cant look it up

or was it the gun master O.C.C. from china 2?

Gun master from China is pretty awesome for a gun toting R.C.C. and to waylay any fears, I have mentioned the lack of the W.P.s to Kevin, and he said that it is implied in their write up so you should include the W.P.s with the class.

Soverntear wrote:

Failgoat wrote:i could have swore i read a post once that said the gun brother O.C.C. was superior to those classes.
am i misremembering?

i dont have my books in front of me so i cant look it up

Gun brother occ? what book are they in?


Grinning demon, I read both of them. The quick flex race is better as a gun fighter and fits the rp i want a bit more. thanks again on the suggestions!

i was thinking of the gun master from china 2. but its definitely a stretch to say that a gun master from china would be in the federation of magic.

Soverntear wrote:

Failgoat wrote:
i was thinking of the gun master from china 2. but its definitely a stretch to say that a gun master from china would be in the federation of magic.

yes it is a strecth indeed. that being said our new guy just came in with a one armed insane operator with a 20 foot robot. ill ask my gm to bring china 2 over. one of the books I havent attained yet. what makes them better then the slinger and fighter?

just quickly glancing over the o.c.c. i would say...a lot

If you want to get a super cheesy RCC for a Gunfighter check out the Octo men (?) out of the 2nd Atlantis book, they can use 4 guns simultaneously and their special guns do 1d4x10, that's 4d4x10 every melee attack

Ya gun master i think is hands down the best gun class ever.

Failgoat wrote:or was it the gun master O.C.C. from china 2?

The Gun Master OCC is in the Geo-Front section of Rifts China 2

Soverntear wrote:Gun brother occ? what book are they in?


Grinning demon, I read both of them. The quick flex race is better as a gun fighter and fits the rp i want a bit more. thanks again on the suggestions!

The Gun Brother class is in the (I believe) RDB:3 PW sourcebook.

The Galactus Kid wrote:Gun master from China is pretty awesome for a gun toting R.C.C. and to waylay any fears, I have mentioned the lack of the W.P.s to Kevin, and he said that it is implied in their write up so you should include the W.P.s with the class.

The Gun Master is an OCC.

Josh Hilden wrote:And yet another good reason for "Official Digital Errata" to be hosted by itself on the website.

Better Idea, publish the errata in a book that way 1) people w/o consistent access (or no access) to comps (or the internet) can use the errata, 2) no one can mess up the errata because it is just on-line.

Grinning Demon wrote:If you want to get a super cheesy RCC for a Gunfighter check out the Octo men (?) out of the 2nd Atlantis book, they can use 4 guns simultaneously and their special guns do 1d4x10, that's 4d4x10 every melee attack

I do hate when PB labels a race as an RCC.
Use 4 at the same time maybe. Aim four at the same time, not a chance.

There is also the Triad Assassin class from Mystic China that uses two pistols simultaneously after reaching level 3.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Grinning Demon wrote:If you want to get a super cheesy RCC for a Gunfighter check out the Octo men (?) out of the 2nd Atlantis book, they can use 4 guns simultaneously and their special guns do 1d4x10, that's 4d4x10 every melee attack

I do hate when PB labels a race as an RCC.
Use 4 at the same time maybe. Aim four at the same time, not a chance.

Um it says under the RCC that they can target/aim 4 at once either at the same target or different ones, so yeah.

Grinning Demon wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Grinning Demon wrote:If you want to get a super cheesy RCC for a Gunfighter check out the Octo men (?) out of the 2nd Atlantis book, they can use 4 guns simultaneously and their special guns do 1d4x10, that's 4d4x10 every melee attack

I do hate when PB labels a race as an RCC.
Use 4 at the same time maybe. Aim four at the same time, not a chance.

Um it says under the RCC that they can target/aim 4 at once either at the same target or different ones, so yeah.

So a bit like the Multi-Tasking minor power but instead of two separate actions they can manage 4.

Soverntear wrote:So It seems the best class for guns is a toss up between the gun fighter and gun slinger. I'm leaning towards the gun fighter due to his modify and repair ability. only thing is i can not find a decent rcc with high pp. highest i have found is 4d6. Please note things like god lings, demi gods and such my gm will most likely not allow.

There's a guaranteed way to get a gun character with a high PP: Use the Super Slinger Cyborg on p191 of New West.

You start with a PP of 24 and could increase it via the Cyborg OCC rules in RUE. Plus you get an extra attack per melee, and can shoot all four handguns at once.

(As an aside, don't use four of the same handgun. Use something like a pair of NG-45LP's for damage, a Stun Blaster, and a Big Bore Revolver for knockdown.)

Mack wrote:

Soverntear wrote:So It seems the best class for guns is a toss up between the gun fighter and gun slinger. I'm leaning towards the gun fighter due to his modify and repair ability. only thing is i can not find a decent rcc with high pp. highest i have found is 4d6. Please note things like god lings, demi gods and such my gm will most likely not allow.

There's a guaranteed way to get a gun character with a high PP: Use the Super Slinger Cyborg on p191 of New West.

You start with a PP of 24 and could increase it via the Cyborg OCC rules in RUE. Plus you get an extra attack per melee, and can shoot all four handguns at once.

But they can only fire 4 "light" weapons, meaning probably not high MD pistol cannons. They also can't split their targets and when they use their four arms it counts as two melee attacks.

Grinning Demon wrote:

Mack wrote:

Soverntear wrote:So It seems the best class for guns is a toss up between the gun fighter and gun slinger. I'm leaning towards the gun fighter due to his modify and repair ability. only thing is i can not find a decent rcc with high pp. highest i have found is 4d6. Please note things like god lings, demi gods and such my gm will most likely not allow.

There's a guaranteed way to get a gun character with a high PP: Use the Super Slinger Cyborg on p191 of New West.

You start with a PP of 24 and could increase it via the Cyborg OCC rules in RUE. Plus you get an extra attack per melee, and can shoot all four handguns at once.

But they can only fire 4 "light" weapons, meaning probably not high MD pistol cannons.

Not sure what you mean by "high MD pistol cannons", but with a robotic PS of 22, I fail to see how they wouldn't be strong enough.

Grinning Demon wrote:They also can't split their targets and when they use their four arms it counts as two melee attacks.

All true. However, the player doesn't have to gamble on a dice roll for his PP either. It's a guaranteed 24, with an option to increase it. And since Soverntear emphasized how important PP was to him, it's certainly a tradeoff worth consideration.

Grinning Demon wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I do hate when PB labels a race as an RCC.
Use 4 at the same time maybe. Aim four at the same time, not a chance.

Um it says under the RCC that they can target/aim 4 at once either at the same target or different ones, so yeah.

The book says nothing about being able to aim more then one Modern Weapon at a time as a Racial ability.
There is in the descriptive text a bit about Gunfighters and Gunslingers of this race to be able to fire four revolvers at once.
In the Nat abilities it talks about the race ability to use all four of it's arms to attack or parry in a melee fight.
And in the combat section about having a nat paired weapons skill.

note: ambidexterity and paired weapons skills only give out attacks to (non-ranged) ancient weapons & hand attacks. Not to modern weapons. This is part of the basic rules set.

Both the Gunfighter OCC and the Gunslinger OCC are classes that come with sharpshooting as a class ability.
Thus the use of more then one side, w/o shooting wild, is dependent on having ether the Gunfighter OCC or having the Gunslinger OCC in combination with the racial ability. Not a racial ability.

Soverntear wrote:So It seems the best class for guns is a toss up between the gun fighter and gun slinger. I'm leaning towards the gun fighter due to his modify and repair ability. only thing is i can not find a decent rcc with high pp. highest i have found is 4d6. Please note things like god lings, demi gods and such my gm will most likely not allow.

Take a look at the Paratrooper OCC from Mercenary Adventure's.

Ninjabunny wrote:

Failgoat wrote:

Soverntear wrote:

Failgoat wrote:
i was thinking of the gun master from china 2. but its definitely a stretch to say that a gun master from china would be in the federation of magic.

yes it is a strecth indeed. that being said our new guy just came in with a one armed insane operator with a 20 foot robot. ill ask my gm to bring china 2 over. one of the books I havent attained yet. what makes them better then the slinger and fighter?

just quickly glancing over the o.c.c. i would say...a lot

Truthful not much makes them better then the gunslinger and fighter.
They have chi powers but outside of china those powers are halved, The Gunmaster is (outside of china) A chi using gunfighter, but in their homeland they are Flipping Awesome, when they have full powers at their disposal.

hmm, now that iv got my books in front of me, and comparing these classes...
the gun master chooses between 3 possible h.t.h. styles in the china 2 book. gunslinger? h.t.h. expert that costs a skill just to get martial arts, which isnt as good as say...shao lin kung fu. the gunfighter also starts with h.t.h. expert but can upgrade to commando for 2 skill selections. id rather have shao lin kung fu without spending any extra skills thx.
the gun master has tao jen qiang. lvl 1-15 progression of abilities and bonuses. i see a few things here and there that require isp to use, but would the extra attacks when only using guns be halved? the bonuses to strike with guns be halved? even at half, its a whole section of stuff the other two classes dont have.
O.C.C. bonuses include a +3 to P.P. for the gun master.
i dont see how the slinger or gunfighter compares to this class at all.

One of the new D-Bees introduced in WB 30: D-Bees of North America is the Malvoren, an RCC (meaning they are their own class) that can meld with weapons and armor, cybernetics, vehicles, and war machines (power armors, robot vehicles, etc.). When they meld with Weapons, they effectively have that Weapon Proficiency at 6 levels higher than their current level, plus they get an extra attack each melee with that weapon, which is on top of the extra attack per melee that they already get!!! They are combination weapon master, armor master, vehicle master, and ace pilot all in one. Downside is that they only get 3d6+4 to their PP, which you could select some physical skills to boost (except for Acrobatics, unfortunately).

Here are a few options:
In tha PF Books: Land of the Damned is a species known as the Jeridu. They have multiple arms and can use three pairs of weapons silmutaneously and natural auto-dodge and a decent PP of 4D6. If you can get away with using Paired Guns in all hands instead of melee it is a good option.

DBoNA has a very capable race known as the Spinne. They are SDC creatures so your GM probably won't have an issue with them. They get a bonus of +3 to auto-dodge and a ridiculous PP of 3D6+12 which is probably the highest out there plus a lot of other bonuses including force-field technology that make the Naruni look like amateurs. The main downside is, you look like a bug.

Another good options is a Native American Para-Trooper. Para-Troopers would easily be the best in Gunmanship if they could dual-wield. A Native American with the Rattlesnake Totem fixes that hole. If the campaign is high-powered enough your GM might allow you to choose a couple of the natural mutations for humans described in Lonestar, choosing Defined talent and a physical skill gives double bonuses for two skills. Boxing and Gymnastics or Acrobatics would be good choices for a bonus attack and more PP.

Failgoat wrote:

Ninjabunny wrote:

Failgoat wrote:

Soverntear wrote:

Failgoat wrote:
i was thinking of the gun master from china 2. but its definitely a stretch to say that a gun master from china would be in the federation of magic.

yes it is a strecth indeed. that being said our new guy just came in with a one armed insane operator with a 20 foot robot. ill ask my gm to bring china 2 over. one of the books I havent attained yet. what makes them better then the slinger and fighter?

just quickly glancing over the o.c.c. i would say...a lot

Truthful not much makes them better then the gunslinger and fighter.
They have chi powers but outside of china those powers are halved, The Gunmaster is (outside of china) A chi using gunfighter, but in their homeland they are Flipping Awesome, when they have full powers at their disposal.

hmm, now that iv got my books in front of me, and comparing these classes...
the gun master chooses between 3 possible h.t.h. styles in the china 2 book. gunslinger? h.t.h. expert that costs a skill just to get martial arts, which isnt as good as say...shao lin kung fu. the gunfighter also starts with h.t.h. expert but can upgrade to commando for 2 skill selections. id rather have shao lin kung fu without spending any extra skills thx.
the gun master has tao jen qiang. lvl 1-15 progression of abilities and bonuses. i see a few things here and there that require isp to use, but would the extra attacks when only using guns be halved? the bonuses to strike with guns be halved? even at half, its a whole section of stuff the other two classes dont have.
O.C.C. bonuses include a +3 to P.P. for the gun master.
i dont see how the slinger or gunfighter compares to this class at all.

You should check out the Dog Boxing Martial Art. It is way better than Shao Lin imo. Better bonuses and it's version of an auto-dodge (The side flip) is better in that if you fail your dodge roll you automatically succeed in a roll with punch.

Soverntear wrote:So It seems the best class for guns is a toss up between the gun fighter and gun slinger. I'm leaning towards the gun fighter due to his modify and repair ability. only thing is i can not find a decent rcc with high pp. highest i have found is 4d6. Please note things like god lings, demi gods and such my gm will most likely not allow.

Try an elf or quick-flex, both make good Gunslingers.

Giant2005 wrote:You should check out the Dog Boxing Martial Art. It is way better than Shao Lin imo. Better bonuses and it's version of an auto-dodge (The side flip) is better in that if you fail your dodge roll you automatically succeed in a roll with punch.

compared the two today. i gotta say i disagree that dog boxing is better.
its version of the auto dodge is only an auto dodge if successful. if it fails, sure you automatically succeed the roll, but it uses an action just like a regular dodge.
dog boxing does give you 1 more attack in the long run than shao lin does, but as far as combat bonuses go, i dont see them being better. adding them up shao lin has better bonuses to strike, parry, dodge, roll, pull, damage, initiative.
some of it is debatable. dog boxing gets crits on natural 19 or 20 and death blow at a later level on a natural 19 or 20, while shao lin has better crit chance, with natural 17 or higher but no death blow. it also has attribute bonuses as you level up, along with s.d.c. bonus.
this style might be great if you enjoy nipping, whining, barking like a dog

Failgoat wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:You should check out the Dog Boxing Martial Art. It is way better than Shao Lin imo. Better bonuses and it's version of an auto-dodge (The side flip) is better in that if you fail your dodge roll you automatically succeed in a roll with punch.

compared the two today. i gotta say i disagree that dog boxing is better.
its version of the auto dodge is only an auto dodge if successful. if it fails, sure you automatically succeed the roll, but it uses an action just like a regular dodge.
dog boxing does give you 1 more attack in the long run than shao lin does, but as far as combat bonuses go, i dont see them being better. adding them up shao lin has better bonuses to strike, parry, dodge, roll, pull, damage, initiative.
some of it is debatable. dog boxing gets crits on natural 19 or 20 and death blow at a later level on a natural 19 or 20, while shao lin has better crit chance, with natural 17 or higher but no death blow. it also has attribute bonuses as you level up, along with s.d.c. bonus.
this style might be great if you enjoy nipping, whining, barking like a dog

Shao-Lin is probably better to everyone that isn't a Gun-Master.
The bonus to strike doesn't count for gunplay and other than that all Shao-Lin has is better Initiative and a better Crit Rate.
They get the same parry bonus, Dog Boxing gets an extra attack and much better dodge. Shao-Lin gets a +3 bonus to dodge, the Dog Boxer gets a +4 bonus to Side Flip. If the Side Flip is successful it uses no action, if it is unsuccessful it uses an action but automatically rolls. Either way, it's added bonus makes it superior to Shao-Lin and it has a higher bonus to boot. Another big deal to Dog Boxing is the fact that attackers are -1 to strike him, that is actually better than an extra +1 to Side Flip because not only does it make the attack easier to dodge but it makes it easier to miss and not need a dodge in the first place. It also applies to a parry I guess giving the Dog Boxer an edge in that department too.

Either way I see your point, it is apples and oranges and is completely based on preference whether you like the extra offense from a better crit rate and Initiative or better defense from Dog Boxing (It could be argued that the extra attack of Dog Boxing somewhat compensates for the lesser offense though!)

if shao-lin gives automatic dodge, then it is better, because that makes any normal bonuses to dodge from the martial art count to auto-dodge iirc (and it will stack with a natural auto-dodge bonus, whereas sideflip will not).

of course, the ruling on normal dodge bonuses from a martial art that grants auto-dodge counting towards auto-dodge might be buried under a huge pile of other stuff somewhere... but i'm fairly certain it actually exists.

Shark_Force wrote:if shao-lin gives automatic dodge, then it is better, because that makes any normal bonuses to dodge from the martial art count to auto-dodge iirc (and it will stack with a natural auto-dodge bonus, whereas sideflip will not).

of course, the ruling on normal dodge bonuses from a martial art that grants auto-dodge counting towards auto-dodge might be buried under a huge pile of other stuff somewhere... but i'm fairly certain it actually exists.

i might have missed it, but i didnt see anywhere in shao lin that gave auto-dodge.

2_Gun_Sally wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:

Failgoat wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:You should check out the Dog Boxing Martial Art. It is way better than Shao Lin imo. Better bonuses and it's version of an auto-dodge (The side flip) is better in that if you fail your dodge roll you automatically succeed in a roll with punch.

compared the two today. i gotta say i disagree that dog boxing is better.
its version of the auto dodge is only an auto dodge if successful. if it fails, sure you automatically succeed the roll, but it uses an action just like a regular dodge.
dog boxing does give you 1 more attack in the long run than shao lin does, but as far as combat bonuses go, i dont see them being better. adding them up shao lin has better bonuses to strike, parry, dodge, roll, pull, damage, initiative.
some of it is debatable. dog boxing gets crits on natural 19 or 20 and death blow at a later level on a natural 19 or 20, while shao lin has better crit chance, with natural 17 or higher but no death blow. it also has attribute bonuses as you level up, along with s.d.c. bonus.
this style might be great if you enjoy nipping, whining, barking like a dog

Shao-Lin is probably better to everyone that isn't a Gun-Master.
The bonus to strike doesn't count for gunplay and other than that all Shao-Lin has is better Initiative and a better Crit Rate.
They get the same parry bonus, Dog Boxing gets an extra attack and much better dodge. Shao-Lin gets a +3 bonus to dodge, the Dog Boxer gets a +4 bonus to Side Flip. If the Side Flip is successful it uses no action, if it is unsuccessful it uses an action but automatically rolls. Either way, it's added bonus makes it superior to Shao-Lin and it has a higher bonus to boot. Another big deal to Dog Boxing is the fact that attackers are -1 to strike him, that is actually better than an extra +1 to Side Flip because not only does it make the attack easier to dodge but it makes it easier to miss and not need a dodge in the first place. It also applies to a parry I guess giving the Dog Boxer an edge in that department too.

Either way I see your point, it is apples and oranges and is completely based on preference whether you like the extra offense from a better crit rate and Initiative or better defense from Dog Boxing (It could be argued that the extra attack of Dog Boxing somewhat compensates for the lesser offense though!)

Aside from picking apart the bonus differences (often very slight points differences in the scheme of things means very little in the long run) Dog Boxing is just plain more fun! My unsual Gun Master concept, being a crazy variant, fits well with the style and I simply renamed it Crazy Boxing. Never get stuck on theme. There are always variants to styles everywhere.

theme and variants, couldnt agree more!
im glad its fun to you lol...
yiping and hurt paw techniques and barking would simply never be fun to me. iv never played a dog boy for instance lol

dragonfett wrote:One of the new D-Bees introduced in WB 30: D-Bees of North America is the Malvoren, an RCC (meaning they are their own class) that can meld with weapons and armor, cybernetics, vehicles, and war machines (power armors, robot vehicles, etc.). When they meld with Weapons, they effectively have that Weapon Proficiency at 6 levels higher than their current level, plus they get an extra attack each melee with that weapon, which is on top of the extra attack per melee that they already get!!! They are combination weapon master, armor master, vehicle master, and ace pilot all in one. Downside is that they only get 3d6+4 to their PP, which you could select some physical skills to boost (except for Acrobatics, unfortunately).

Ya but i have to question any player that would choose the malvoren race for his character. Most likely anyone choosing it is because they want the powers/abilities and don't care that you look like a ball of thread.

It is one of those races that you really can't relate to. I've seen to many players that want to play race x and after a few adventures they want to change because they just can't relate to the character in any way.

Nether wrote:

dragonfett wrote:One of the new D-Bees introduced in WB 30: D-Bees of North America is the Malvoren, an RCC (meaning they are their own class) that can meld with weapons and armor, cybernetics, vehicles, and war machines (power armors, robot vehicles, etc.). When they meld with Weapons, they effectively have that Weapon Proficiency at 6 levels higher than their current level, plus they get an extra attack each melee with that weapon, which is on top of the extra attack per melee that they already get!!! They are combination weapon master, armor master, vehicle master, and ace pilot all in one. Downside is that they only get 3d6+4 to their PP, which you could select some physical skills to boost (except for Acrobatics, unfortunately).

Ya but i have to question any player that would choose the malvoren race for his character. Most likely anyone choosing it is because they want the powers/abilities and don't care that you look like a ball of thread.

It is one of those races that you really can't relate to. I've seen to many players that want to play race x and after a few adventures they want to change because they just can't relate to the character in any way.

Yep, the Malvoren are very deadly and on the powerful side. The PP is pleanty high enough with the rest of the bonuses. And, they are hard to RP and relate to. That is a small balance for the power they have.

Levi wrote:

Nether wrote:

dragonfett wrote:One of the new D-Bees introduced in WB 30: D-Bees of North America is the Malvoren, an RCC (meaning they are their own class) that can meld with weapons and armor, cybernetics, vehicles, and war machines (power armors, robot vehicles, etc.). When they meld with Weapons, they effectively have that Weapon Proficiency at 6 levels higher than their current level, plus they get an extra attack each melee with that weapon, which is on top of the extra attack per melee that they already get!!! They are combination weapon master, armor master, vehicle master, and ace pilot all in one. Downside is that they only get 3d6+4 to their PP, which you could select some physical skills to boost (except for Acrobatics, unfortunately).

Ya but i have to question any player that would choose the malvoren race for his character. Most likely anyone choosing it is because they want the powers/abilities and don't care that you look like a ball of thread.

It is one of those races that you really can't relate to. I've seen to many players that want to play race x and after a few adventures they want to change because they just can't relate to the character in any way.

Yep, the Malvoren are very deadly and on the powerful side. The PP is pleanty high enough with the rest of the bonuses. And, they are hard to RP and relate to. That is a small balance for the power they have.

Plus it is likely that within a year of play you will find yourself being a hood ornament on some Splugorth vehicle.

Giant2005 wrote:Plus it is likely that within a year of play you will find yourself being a hood ornament on some Splugorth vehicle.

This is very true, too bad alot of people don't always take into consideration things like this. Not all, but many rpg'rs are more into the roll now days sadly then the "Role" part of playing. Sad side effect from most electronic games, they do most of the decision and personality making for you and all you have to do is push buttons and keep an eye out for objectives (Still loads of fun though). A good GM will always take these into consideration (as I mentioned in the Flaming Gorillaman forum) and use it to better gameplay, keep the players on their toes and help show PC's that its not always (granted sometimes it is) about having the biggest and most powerful or the best in any one area to "begin" with. Whatever you end up choosing Soverntear and your GM allows, I hope you have the best experience with it possible and keep in mind that with any character You are the one ultimately writing his/her/it's story and giving it a life of its own.

Personally I'm partial to the Octoman R.C.C. it has great potential for not only making one heck of a brutal 4-gun wielding nut and allows you to choose yer own O.C.C. within its limits that should make for an extremely interesting and fun Gameplay. Goodluck with whatever you choose.

Levi wrote:

Nether wrote:

dragonfett wrote:One of the new D-Bees introduced in WB 30: D-Bees of North America is the Malvoren, an RCC (meaning they are their own class) that can meld with weapons and armor, cybernetics, vehicles, and war machines (power armors, robot vehicles, etc.). When they meld with Weapons, they effectively have that Weapon Proficiency at 6 levels higher than their current level, plus they get an extra attack each melee with that weapon, which is on top of the extra attack per melee that they already get!!! They are combination weapon master, armor master, vehicle master, and ace pilot all in one. Downside is that they only get 3d6+4 to their PP, which you could select some physical skills to boost (except for Acrobatics, unfortunately).

Ya but i have to question any player that would choose the malvoren race for his character. Most likely anyone choosing it is because they want the powers/abilities and don't care that you look like a ball of thread.

It is one of those races that you really can't relate to. I've seen to many players that want to play race x and after a few adventures they want to change because they just can't relate to the character in any way.

Yep, the Malvoren are very deadly and on the powerful side. The PP is pleanty high enough with the rest of the bonuses. And, they are hard to RP and relate to. That is a small balance for the power they have.

I guess it depends on your view, but i don't consider "hard to rp due to being unrelateable" as a balance point in design. To me they should be npc's only as with most monstrous non humanoid races because only the really good rp'ers can play something like that and roleplay it, and my experience shows me there isn't alot of "really good rp'ers" out there capable of it. So by just making them not an option you save your game some headaches.

As for the gun rcc/occ, if you want great PP then you could be say a Oni from PWS and be a Gun Master from china 2. They synergize well in that the oni fits the mysticism, and gotta say again that the Gun Master just looks soo much fun for the style of character.

34. Is it possible for other races other then humans to have exceptional stats. As in like the humans 16+ on 3d6 is another d6. If so what is the rule or standard for figuring out the numbers required.
Answer: It is possible.
2D6 - a single die on a 12 (no additional dice)
3D6 - a single die on a result of 16, 17 or 18, if this dice is a 6 roll another bonus dice (max 30)
3D6+ - a single die on a result of 16, 17 or 18, if this dice is a 6 roll another bonus dice (max 30), then add in the +
4D6 - no bonus die.

It can be seen in this FAQ right here: http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/ques ... ombat.html

So to answer the question as to whether the Malvoren can use the exploding die for his PP stat, the answer is yes, to a maximum of 34.

In the Federation of Magic? Play a Battle Magus. Then you get all the sharpshooting stuff and magic, too.

Balabanto wrote:In the Federation of Magic? Play a Battle Magus. Then you get all the sharpshooting stuff and magic, too.

And they suck at both

Not a single mention of the Vanguard Brawler? For shame.

Why is that important?

They too get +1 attacks, but unlike the quickflex alien, they can become cyborgs and can take the Gunfighter OCC (as opposed to just being able to take the gunfighter OCC).

So What does that mean?

You can be a a VB Gunfighter in a Super Slinger body for a total of +2 attacks, get boxing for free, and can have HtH assassin for the cost of one OCC related skill, or you have to option of going commando for two (which nets you the all-important auto-dodge).



But forgetting that, you could just be a Malvoren; you can wield like 20 guns at once. And if looking human is somewhat important, all you need to do is merge with a suit of EBA.

Grinning Demon wrote:

Balabanto wrote:In the Federation of Magic? Play a Battle Magus. Then you get all the sharpshooting stuff and magic, too.

And they suck at both

You must be reading a different book...

The Galactus Kid wrote:

Grinning Demon wrote:

Balabanto wrote:In the Federation of Magic? Play a Battle Magus. Then you get all the sharpshooting stuff and magic, too.

And they suck at both

You must be reading a different book...

I agree with them. The Battle Magus is a pretty powerful playable character and makes for a good NPC in an encounter. Just has to be played right by someone with the feel for it.

The Galactus Kid wrote:

Grinning Demon wrote:

Balabanto wrote:In the Federation of Magic? Play a Battle Magus. Then you get all the sharpshooting stuff and magic, too.

And they suck at both

You must be reading a different book...

Nope. Their starting spells and PPE are pretty weak, even some of the good spells they do have use up a good amount of PPE. Also they can't quick draw or used paired weapons from with energy pistols or energy rifles (the only two really worth taking)

Grinning Demon wrote:

The Galactus Kid wrote:

Grinning Demon wrote:

Balabanto wrote:In the Federation of Magic? Play a Battle Magus. Then you get all the sharpshooting stuff and magic, too.

And they suck at both

You must be reading a different book...

Nope. Their starting spells and PPE are pretty weak, even some of the good spells they do have use up a good amount of PPE. Also they can't quick draw or used paired weapons from with energy pistols or energy rifles (the only two really worth taking)

Actually an Energy Pistol is a handgun and handguns are within their options of both Dual Wielding and Quick Draw. They can't Quick Draw a Rifle but who wants to use a Rifle when you can DW Pistols?
Keep in mind the only class in the game with W.P. Paired: Guns is the Gun Master. Even Slingers are limited to Handguns just like the Battle Magus.

uhm I understand wanting a high PP to Strike,dodge,and parry in close combat.... but in ranged combat(non thrown weapons anyway) a high pp only helps with initiative, in which case you probably will want a gunslinger for its quick-draw (which stacks with W.P. Quick-draw).

I have a gunslinger with a +16 or so to initiative because my dice exploded(at the table in front of the party, I came in mid game)... granted my M.E. Is pitiful 8 but hey that's why my character is THE Greedy Conniving little ....

Soverntear wrote:
My GM and I we're discussing this during our game last night. We just altered paired weapons to allow the choice of melee or guns. It should be the way the skill is done, there is no logical reason why anyone cant learn PW:guns just the same as learning PW:melee. both require the same amount of skill, just in different disciplines.

So I went with a quick flex gunfighter, PP didn't roll to crazy with I think I'm at 16 with skill bonus. all in all great character really enjoying the 7 attacks with melee or 9 with guns. also really nice feature of the quick flex, they start with ambidexterity (according to their fluff) so I added the ambi bonuses.

Awesome choice! I had a Quick Flex Gunfighter myself, just an all around fun character

psam_rage wrote:uhm I understand wanting a high PP to Strike,dodge,and parry in close combat.... but in ranged combat(non thrown weapons anyway) a high pp only helps with initiative, in which case you probably will want a gunslinger for its quick-draw (which stacks with W.P. Quick-draw).

I have a gunslinger with a +16 or so to initiative because my dice exploded(at the table in front of the party, I came in mid game)... granted my M.E. Is pitiful 8 but hey that's why my character is THE Greedy Conniving little ....

of course, you could also roll up a splicers character... can't remember if it's warmounts or host armor, or both, but something there lets you add PP to ranged attacks