Forums of the Megaverse®

If I recall correctly there is some kind of item in the England World Book that can break Rune items.

There's a bit in England about destroying Rune Weapons, and an artical in a Rifter on Rune Magic with a few spells and an optional OCC. However, neither indicate that destroying the weapon releases the soul, or if it's merely destroyed in the process.

dmos1 wrote:So it sounds as if, one could argue, that souls/bodies should be able to be released/freed from the dimensional vortex. Guess the GM can finagle rules.

Agreed. There's nothing that really hashes this detail out clearly, so either take your pick (if you're the GM), or talk it over with your group and whoever ends up making that call for that game.

dmos1 wrote:So, I want to create a powerful character/God-like, who's goal it is to free trapped souls/beings who've been made into rune weapons. Is there stuff in any of the Rifters or books that I'm just missing about this? Any of the blogs?

The Scathach Druid can, at higher levels, create a Cauldron Of Destruction that can slag Rune Weapons if they are placed in the Cauldron and the ritual is performed at the proper time of month/year.

It is a power apparently granted to them by the gods/spirits they believe in -there is nothing in the text to indicate that it's just a ritual that anybody can learn -and so if the god in question wants to destroy those things, he's probably going to have to make some sort of deal with the Scathach to either bring the weapons to the druid or drag him around the Megaverse with him (unlikely).

Then again, the god COULD try to steal Gungnir from Odin, which can destroy Lesser Rune Weapons (only) simply by making a Called Shot with declaration of intent. Good luck with that.

dmos1 wrote:Thanks a lot. Reading again re: Runes in Atlantis, it says, "Rune magic steals a creature's life essence and soul, sometimes the physical body as well, and imprisons it in a dimensional vortex within the enchanted object/weapon...Within this dimensional prison the life force requires no means of nourishment or water. Thankfully time is greatly distorted. A thousand years may seem like only a few days." (p.126)

So it sounds as if, one could argue, that souls/bodies should be able to be released/freed from the dimensional vortex. Guess the GM can finagle rules.

I recall reading somewhere that souls that are drank are basiclly fed to the soul drinker, and such souls are unable to be retrieved.

dmos1 wrote:Thanks a lot. Reading again re: Runes in Atlantis, it says, "Rune magic steals a creature's life essence and soul, sometimes the physical body as well, and imprisons it in a dimensional vortex within the enchanted object/weapon...Within this dimensional prison the life force requires no means of nourishment or water. Thankfully time is greatly distorted. A thousand years may seem like only a few days." (p.126)

So it sounds as if, one could argue, that souls/bodies should be able to be released/freed from the dimensional vortex. Guess the GM can finagle rules.

ONLY the original Soul, the one that powers the weapon, is trapped in the vortex; other victims of a Soul Drinker are utterly obliterated (fortunately, compared to the original spirit), also according to the text.

anapuna wrote:just GM up a ritual that is an offering to a "god". the god will destroy the weapon.
OR
create a ritual that focuses the PPE of your "godling"? this PPE ka-mai-a-mai-a or PPE neutron bomb will bleach out the original soul and bonding spells to leave an SDC or low MDC sword or knife or axe or whatever it is.

now i do not know how much PPE your character will have and i would ay that this ritual will take time and a lot of PPE. now i do not know if you want to stipulate that it takes a ley line or not that is up to you.

There is nothing to indicate that gods can destroy a rune weapon. In fact, there is a tremendous amount to show that they cannot, under any cirumstances.

Gravitus Everlast wrote:A powerful diabolist/(rune item making occ) can unmake the runes on the rune item. They can even alter the runes on there, but it requires a lot of time and PPE. I imagine the soul could be saved if a God interceded at the right moment and/or previous communication about the plan had been made with the soul in the item. Personally, I'd make a rune item for the soul purpose of saving souls from rune items, like a magic stylus that facilitates the transfer. That's the other part, are you resurrecting, reincarnating or just sending the souls on to their appropriate afterlives?

Wow, didn't know that.

What book is that in?!?

I've never seen it (but then again, I don't have a whole lot of PFRPG books).

cornholioprime wrote:

Gravitus Everlast wrote:A powerful diabolist/(rune item making occ) can unmake the runes on the rune item. They can even alter the runes on there, but it requires a lot of time and PPE. I imagine the soul could be saved if a God interceded at the right moment and/or previous communication about the plan had been made with the soul in the item. Personally, I'd make a rune item for the soul purpose of saving souls from rune items, like a magic stylus that facilitates the transfer. That's the other part, are you resurrecting, reincarnating or just sending the souls on to their appropriate afterlives?

Wow, didn't know that.

What book is that in?!?

I've never seen it (but then again, I don't have a whole lot of PFRPG books).

I do, and I don't remember seeing that before either.

another thing to consider is this.....evil rune weapons are inhabited by evil beings and good ones by good beings.....so if you are releaseing the spirits of evil rune weapons to try and take away a powerful weapon from the forces of evil you will still be releaseing an evil entity back into the megaverse. or if your goal is to free the captutred essence of a good being you are then taking a weapon away from the forces of good....and besides dont good aligned weapons WANT to be used to fight evil? ah decisions decisions what to do......

Yup, all legal solutions were already mentioned like the Cauldaron of destruction or the spear of Odin.

IMHO a rune forge could also destroy a rune weapon.

Wasn't a runic amboss mentioned in one PFRPG book. Such an item could also be used to destroy a rune weapon or at least could be a part of the process.

cornholioprime wrote:

Gravitus Everlast wrote:A powerful diabolist/(rune item making occ) can unmake the runes on the rune item. They can even alter the runes on there, but it requires a lot of time and PPE. I imagine the soul could be saved if a God interceded at the right moment and/or previous communication about the plan had been made with the soul in the item. Personally, I'd make a rune item for the soul purpose of saving souls from rune items, like a magic stylus that facilitates the transfer. That's the other part, are you resurrecting, reincarnating or just sending the souls on to their appropriate afterlives?

Wow, didn't know that.

What book is that in?!?

I've never seen it (but then again, I don't have a whole lot of PFRPG books).

That would be because it's not anywhere and he just made that up.

for that matter, Diabolists can't make rune items either. Nor can they alter runes on a rune item or weapon.

So yea...the most chartiable thing I can think of is he had a GM that heavily houseruled them once. that, or he deliberately decided to make it all up.

I'm not sure, as I do not have the book, but I think one of the occs in one of the worldbooks (mystic russia I think) is a smith that can destroy rune weapons as well as enchant some items. Had to find one in the game to get rid of some pesky, well, beyond that in one case rune weapons. While I do not know if it is a rule or not, the one we really wanted gone was impervious to the smith's ability. Sigh, back to the cave Necrom.

X'Zanthar wrote:I'm not sure, as I do not have the book, but I think one of the occs in one of the worldbooks (mystic russia I think) is a smith that can destroy rune weapons as well as enchant some items. Had to find one in the game to get rid of some pesky, well, beyond that in one case rune weapons. While I do not know if it is a rule or not, the one we really wanted gone was impervious to the smith's ability. Sigh, back to the cave Necrom.

That is an erroneous urban legend that has taken on a life of its own over the years.

Mystic Kuynzya can only destroy weapons made by other Kuynzya, as well as their own (see Rifts: Mystic Russia, page 123). There's not even any evidence that they can destroy indestructible, "ordinary" Weapons made by other means, much less Rune Weapons.

cornholioprime wrote:

X'Zanthar wrote:I'm not sure, as I do not have the book, but I think one of the occs in one of the worldbooks (mystic russia I think) is a smith that can destroy rune weapons as well as enchant some items. Had to find one in the game to get rid of some pesky, well, beyond that in one case rune weapons. While I do not know if it is a rule or not, the one we really wanted gone was impervious to the smith's ability. Sigh, back to the cave Necrom.

That is an erroneous urban legend that has taken on a life of its own over the years.

Mystic Kuynzya can only destroy weapons made by other Kuynzya, as well as their own (see Rifts: Mystic Russia, page 123). There's not even any evidence that they can destroy indestructible, "ordinary" Weapons made by other means, much less Rune Weapons.

Heh! Your right, according to one of our party I talked to, apparently it was not the russian smith (I have no idea why I had that in my head, we were not even in Russia, just somewhere near Canada. I think I was mainly focused on waiting for the (usually) inevitable point where that darned sword gets loose and causes trouble. amazingly it didn't happen that time, suprise.

It's never statted or mentioned anywhere else i'm afraid.

baddream01 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:It's never statted or mentioned anywhere else i'm afraid.

Well I guess i am too on a never ending quest. But would it be sound for a samurai master to break any swords or just the lesser runes or any swords. It does not spel out that they can't break any other swords or rune quality.

You should probably leave Rune Weapons as indestructible except by the two means officially listed (i.e., Scathach Druids and Odin's Gungnir).

When you consider that not even the Splugorth nor the Ancient Dwarves of the Palladium World know how to break them once they make them -and both parties are/were Rune Masters in their own right -then it gives you an idea of just how stupendous Rune Weapons are.

The Japanese Sword Makers, on the other hand, can be allowed to "get away with" breaking swords of their own creation because they are effectively reversing the magic that made them in the first place (and remember that, for all their skill, they aren't really making TRUE Rune Weapons).

Of course, one should note that the Anvil Dwarves in Phase World still have a functional Runemaster Guild who knows the secrets of creating all 3 levels of Rune Weapons. It's likely one could go to them and ask them to create or destroy a rune weapon.

The price is always high. And rarely just money.

finn69 wrote:...evil rune weapons are inhabited by evil beings and good ones by good beings.....so if you are releaseing the spirits of evil rune weapons to try and take away a powerful weapon from the forces of evil you will still be releaseing an evil entity back into the megaverse. or if your goal is to free the captutred essence of a good being you are then taking a weapon away from the forces of good....and besides dont good aligned weapons WANT to be used to fight evil? ah decisions decisions what to do...

I don't agree with that. As far as I know (I have EVERY book for Rifts, PFRPG, HU, Nightbane, BTS, N&SS, and most Rifters), there haven't been any established rules for Rune Magic. Read my thread "Phella One's Introduction to Rune Magic" to see if it changes your mind on what you just said. The article is almost ready for submission, so I could use the feedback anyway.