Forums of the Megaverse®

I'm sending the party in my game from Florida to Mexico, mainly because of all the places in RIFTS America I've never really been in any games set in Mexico. The biggest thing is that I want to power down vampires a bit, just to make things a little bit easier for them (since it seems to be the general consensus in my group that vampires are way overpowered. Personally I think they have plenty of ridiculously easy weaknesses to exploit, but c'est la vie).

My question is this. How can I power down vampires and keep them as a threat, but not quite as bad as they are out of the book?

1st I'd find out what makes them so powerful in their eyes.

Once you know that, you can make adjustments.

Grafsburg wrote:I'm sending the party in my game from Florida to Mexico, mainly because of all the places in RIFTS America I've never really been in any games set in Mexico. The biggest thing is that I want to power down vampires a bit, just to make things a little bit easier for them (since it seems to be the general consensus in my group that vampires are way overpowered. Personally I think they have plenty of ridiculously easy weaknesses to exploit, but c'est la vie).

My question is this. How can I power down vampires and keep them as a threat, but not quite as bad as they are out of the book?

Here are some ideas to use, discard, mix and match, or inspire:
1. The easiest way would be to turn their Hit Points into MDC, and get rid of their invulnerability. Silver, wood, etc. still hurts them, but the normal SDC damage turns to mega-damage instead.
If they're TOO weak, then, maybe double their MDC and see how it works.
2. Allow laser to count as sunlight attacks.
3. Allow fire to count as sunlight attacks.
4. Reduce their regeneration abilities, or negate them entirely except for something like having them heal completely every day while they're asleep. Or maybe they only heal when they're feeding.
5. Get rid of their supernatural PS.
6. Drop their Super Hypnotic Suggestion, either entirely, or replacing it with normal Hypnotic Suggestion.
7. Make them sparkle.
8. Give them the OCD that they have in some legends, where they have to stop to count scattered seeds and/or untie knots.
9. Give them the mythological vulnerability of having to be invited to come inside a home.
10. Have them spend 1 attack every melee brooding about their love life.
11. Remove the bit about having to burn the bodies, and have decapitation alone kill them.
12. Nix their summoning abilities.
13. Get rid of Vampire Intelligences.
14. Get rid of Master Vampires.
15. Get rid of Secondary Vampires.

Or you could go another route entirely, and replace the Palladium vampires with something else.
Or just have your party fight something else instead.

I sent a party of new players up against something that they thought were vampires, but were really just a random critter I rolled up from the back of the Rifts book.

It was something like...
+2 init
4 attacks per melee
+1 strike
2d4x10 MDC
IQ 8
PS 20
Speed 5d6+6
Horror Factor: 9
PPE: 20
7' tall humanoid, but clearly not human, though it might be mistaken for something that once was human.
Clawed Hands: 1d6 MD
Bite: 2d6 MD
Prowl 54%+4%/level
Nightvision: 4000'
Powers: Breathe Without Air (which they use by burrowing under the earth or sand during the day in order to sleep, sometimes erupting out of the ground to ambush people walking overhead), and Life Drain
Feeds On: Human Blood (special effects being that they just have to touch the blood with any part of their body, and the blood gets absorbed instantly)
Weakness: Energy (consequently, they avoid sunlight, as they find it unpleasant)

Rather than nerfing vamps, why don't you give the players more ready access to lore and weapons that exploit their weaknesses?

1. Normal Human PS, no md attacks in HtH combat.
2. UV Lights burn then like Sunlight.
3. Silver itself inflict damage just touching them. Keeps them from healing and allows you tie them up easy.
4. No Vampire Intelligences, or Masters. Use only Secondary & Wild Vampires.
5. Make Fire damages them.
6. Healing 2d6 per Day only for Sunlight, Running Water, and Fire damages.
7. Must be Invited to enter Homes. People can take back invitations even.
8. Ignore their "Invulnerability". Just let them heal 2d6 damage per round however. If HP reaches 10 & under their healing ability stops until the feed again or 2d6 per day only.
9. Death by Silver, Wood, Sunlight.
10. Wooden bullets, silver bullets, will instant-kill vampires.

----------

So would your group rather vampire Movie Styled Vampires ? If so which movies/tv shows versions they like best ? Custom build the vampires for the group...
Then Trick them...After running into many many of the weaker vampires, throw in a normal secondary vampire as written in the books to make them take notice their might be more than one vampire type out there...

Just make the vampires take the MDC damage as SDC damage. The immunity is already overkill due to the costs of the E-clips and MDC ammo compared to what they are weak against anyway.

Just pit them against Wild Vampires for the majority of the adventure and use a Secondary as the source of the scourge. Let them work up the vampire hierarchy instead of going right into opposition of a Master and his legions right away.

The only problem with making them sparkle is that it negates their vulnerability to sunlight.

IMHO Silver should NOT be a vulnerability in the first place. Thats a Lycanthrope weakness not a vampire one. but other than that.

I agree with just throwing Wilds at them to began with and slowly work your way up. There are also a few ways that the pc's can pick up simple vamp lore. Have them do a few jobs for demonbusters or Arzno Mercenary corps. Id Leave Reids Rangers alone on this because they offer no real knopwledge on it.

FreelancerMar wrote:IMHO Silver should NOT be a vulnerability in the first place. Thats a Lycanthrope weakness not a vampire one. but other than that.

I agree with this. The Lycanthrope's tie to the moon is what makes them vulnerable to the "moon metal".

Vampires are tied to the Earth. It makes no sense that they would be especially vulnerable to silver.

--flatline

FreelancerMar wrote:IMHO Silver should NOT be a vulnerability in the first place. Thats a Lycanthrope weakness not a vampire one. but other than that.

There's no monopoly on mystic vulnerabilities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_va ... Weaknesses
There are quite a few modern versions of vampires which include silver as a weakness.

Perhaps more importantly, vulnerability to silver is present in earlier folklore as well:
http://www.monstropedia.org/Vampire#Vam ... t_cultures
. In early Slavic folklore, a vampire drank blood, was afraid of (but could not be killed by) silver...

The vampire myth of Istanbul holds that a vampire may be killed using a silver bullet or silver stake.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 606AAg2MM9
In my own state of Tennessee we uncovered the grave of a suspected "vampire" with silver nails driven into her coffin.
Silver was used against "vampires" in European folklore. It's not hard to learn with some good books on the TRUE mythology.

Silver hurting werewolves came from the Beast of Gévaudan event that happened in France. That supposed "werewolf" was killed by a blessed silver musket ball according to myth/history. This is where hollywood got silver kills werewolves..despite the fact that in no other werewolf folktale I've ever heard has silver been used in any way to kill a werewolf. Werewolves they burned at the stake after catching them in human form...or just hunted down and shot in wolf form. ...according to folklore.

So, yes silver was for vampires in true mythology. Not werewolves.

I can't find much of a harder source right now, but silver has been part of the vampire myths a LONG time.
Their lack of reflection in mirrors is often attributed to the fact that most mirrors a couple hundred years ago were made using silver.

Nerfing a creature that can be killed by a sprinkler?

Grafsburg wrote:Personally I think they have plenty of ridiculously easy weaknesses to exploit

I agree. Don't water them down. If they cant take advantage of their MANY weaknesses or don't have the brains to think of ways to escape than they're lazy and get killed by Vampires. Welcome to Mexico.

Personally the most fun I've had in RPG's is with something ungodly on the other side of a locked door trying to get in as the other PC's squeal about their characters dying while we're thinking up innovative ways to save our asses. If you want to be nice just make sure you throw together a lot of maps with marked obstacles that they can take advantage of before dumping them in head first. Sure, if they're not careful they'll die because of the obstacles (but again, that can be funny for all involved) but if they're smart they'll live and find a way to make it work.

Then, when all is said and done... the survivors will laugh and crow about the time they defeated the Master Vampire with a bucket of water, a can of 7-up, and three matches and make sure they're more prepared for something like that next time.

Players having things to be scared of in game is a good thing. It makes for good stories and generally makes for a better role playing experience and sometimes a player gets to stop in the middle of a hall--tell the other players to keep running, and die for his/her friends (and that is always awesome while giving the other players a chance to see exactly what they're up against.)

rat_bastard wrote:Nerfing a creature that can be killed by a sprinkler?

Don't think for a moment that you can't be.

sHaka wrote:Rather than nerfing vamps, why don't you give the players more ready access to lore and weapons that exploit their weaknesses?

I think the vampires, as presented by Palladium Books, are just fine. It sounds as if your crew just needs to get a little more experience. If the vampires are posing them a problem (to the point that you have to "power them down"), what are they going to say when they come across some of the other denizens of Rifts Earth? It sounds as if they need to learn to adapt. Maybe you could entice them by awarding them "great menace" XPs, and liberal "idea" XPs (quick thinking; useful; deductive reasoning; etc...). Start off with some (less than the number of PCs) Wild Vampires in the northern Mexico region to let them get their feet wet (formulate anti-vampire tactics, discover weaknesses, and most importantly, GAIN CONFIDENCE). Maybe an established vampire hunting NPC travels with them for a little while, passing on some useful, life-saving tips?

I would hate to see you water your game down (and story plots) before trying to have your PCs RISE TO THE CHALLENGE. If vampires, as presented, are still too much, some of the other suggestions above could help. I just think they are a GREAT idea as is and your crew may not be giving themselves enough credit. I hope you guys can overcome this issue; there's a wealth of stories in Old Mexico. Good luck and happy hunting!