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Okay,

I want to truthfully ask why were the following items (all of which either appear in Gensis Climber Mospeada/The New Generation or in new canon comics) left out in favor of the 'Improvised Mecha Units'? Wouldn't it have been a far better usage of pages to detail these items and leave the IMUs to the Gensis Pits book? Especially given that a large majority of these items have lineart that has been uncovered and shared?

Mecha & Vehicles
Alpha Drone (The Secret Route)
Shadow Drone (Symphony of Light)
Shadow Cyclone: VR-038, VR-052 (Reflex Point, Symphony of Light)
Jackal Convertible Battloid(?) (The Invid Invasion)
Tiger Artillery Destroid(?) (Love & War comics)
Colonel Wolfe's Aerospace Fighter (Eulogy, Enter Marlene)
Light(?) Tank (The Invid Invasion)
AAT-40 Combat Humvee (Ghost Town)
Deuce-and-a-half(?) (Curtain Call, Ghost Town)
Fast Attack Vehicle(?) (Lonely Soldier Boy, Eulogy)

Small Arms & Body Armor
Colonel Wolfe's CVR-2 (Eulogy)
Colonel Wolfe's blaster/slugthrower SMG(?) (Eulogy, Robotech official toy)
Dusty Ayres/Doomed Soldiers heavy pistol (Hired Gun)
'Town Militia Blaster' (Eulogy, Ghost Town)

Spaceships
IZUM-10 Cruiser(?)
MARS III Orbital Armory

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:Okay,

I want to truthfully ask why were the following items (all of which either appear in Gensis Climber Mospeada/The New Generation or in new canon comics) left out in favor of the 'Improvised Mecha Units'? Wouldn't it have been a far better usage of pages to detail these items and leave the IMUs to the Gensis Pits book? Especially given that a large majority of these items have lineart that has been uncovered and shared?

Mecha & Vehicles
Alpha Drone (The Secret Route)
Shadow Drone (Symphony of Light)
Shadow Cyclone: VR-038, VR-052 (Reflex Point, Symphony of Light)
Jackal Convertible Battloid(?) (The Invid Invasion)
Tiger Artillery Destroid(?) (Love & War comics)
Colonel Wolfe's Aerospace Fighter (Eulogy, Enter Marlene)
Light(?) Tank (The Invid Invasion)
AAT-40 Combat Humvee (Ghost Town)
Deuce-and-a-half(?) (Curtain Call, Ghost Town)
Fast Attack Vehicle(?) (Lonely Soldier Boy, Eulogy)

Small Arms & Body Armor
Colonel Wolfe's CVR-2 (Eulogy)
Colonel Wolfe's blaster/slugthrower SMG(?) (Eulogy, Robotech official toy)
Dusty Ayres/Doomed Soldiers heavy pistol (Hired Gun)
'Town Militia Blaster' (Eulogy, Ghost Town)

Spaceships
IZUM-10 Cruiser(?)
MARS III Orbital Armory

What are the Jackal and the Fast Attack Vehicle?

And I do not think just because the cyclones are black they have shadow tech.

Chris0013 wrote:What are the Jackal and the Fast Attack Vehicle?

Jackal (01)
Jackal (02)
FAV (Lancer's is coloured pink)

And I do not think just because the cyclones are black they have shadow tech.

The Invasion videogame (which is set in 2034 IIRC) has the Shadow Dancer Cyclone that uses Shadow tech. Alot of the Cyclones in Reflex Point and Sera's in Symphony of Light are all the same color as that of the Shadow Fighter. Furthermore, in Genesis Climber Mospeada, Rey (Rand) identifies Shinobu's (Sue Graham's) MOSPEADA as a 'Dark Mospeada'.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:Okay,

I want to truthfully ask why were the following items (all of which either appear in Gensis Climber Mospeada/The New Generation or in new canon comics) left out in favor of the 'Improvised Mecha Units'? Wouldn't it have been a far better usage of pages to detail these items and leave the IMUs to the Gensis Pits book? Especially given that a large majority of these items have lineart that has been uncovered and shared?

Mecha & Vehicles
Alpha Drone (The Secret Route)
Shadow Drone (Symphony of Light)
Shadow Cyclone: VR-038, VR-052 (Reflex Point, Symphony of Light)
Jackal Convertible Battloid(?) (The Invid Invasion)
Tiger Artillery Destroid(?) (Love & War comics)
Colonel Wolfe's Aerospace Fighter (Eulogy, Enter Marlene)

The going hope around here is that the Dsetroids will appear in the Marines book, if it ever materializes and doesn't get cancelled and cannibalized to appear in sections in other book(s).

in addition to what you have mentioned I would also like to see stats for the "Invid pistol" that Sera uses in ep.77 "The Midnight Sun"

Also didn't the Jackal become the Condor in the Shadow Chronicles book?

Nac87 wrote:in addition to what you have mentioned I would also like to see stats for the "Invid pistol" that Sera uses in ep.77 "The Midnight Sun"

Also didn't the Jackal become the Condor in the Shadow Chronicles book?

No the Jackal is a bigger improved version of the Condor, or probably intended to be the 'Beta' component Condor

@RSCF
I realize you are limiting yourself to just the New Gen Source Book, but wouldn't this have fit with Chris0013's thread of "So... what toys are still missing from the animation"?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=127139

Nac87 wrote:Also didn't the Jackal become the Condor in the Shadow Chronicles book?

No. The Jackal basically is a larger version of the Condor with notable distinct characteristics:
-feet
-Shoulder intake cover "blade"
-the way the upper arms attach to the should intake
-the shapping of the snout
-even the basic shapping of the upper arm

See the jackal2 link (http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m77/ ... rone01.jpg) RSCF provided earlier (Condor is on the Right, Jackal is on the Left).

No. The Jackal basically is a larger version of the Condor with notable distinct characteristics:
-feet
-Shoulder intake cover "blade"
-the way the upper arms attach to the should intake
-the shapping of the snout
-even the basic shapping of the upper arm

Ah well there you go ya learn something new every day

The exclusion of the shadow drone was puzzling
as its picture was in the core book

ShadowLogan wrote:@RSCF
I realize you are limiting yourself to just the New Gen Source Book, but wouldn't this have fit with Chris0013's thread of "So... what toys are still missing from the animation"?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=127139

Nac87 wrote:Also didn't the Jackal become the Condor in the Shadow Chronicles book?

No. The Jackal basically is a larger version of the Condor with notable distinct characteristics:
-feet
-Shoulder intake cover "blade"
-the way the upper arms attach to the should intake
-the shapping of the snout
-even the basic shapping of the upper arm

See the jackal2 link (http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m77/ ... rone01.jpg) RSCF provided earlier (Condor is on the Right, Jackal is on the Left).

Considering how big they made the Condor...the Jackal would be a beast.


Also...would have prefered to have done all the left out vehicles/mecha over the IMUs....2 pics for each vehicle...a 3/4 front and a 3/4 back....kise the ones for the AAT-40 in the Sentinels book

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:Okay,

I want to truthfully ask why were the following items ...(SNIP)

because adding 1st edition style "Franken mech" and tons of information from non-canon novels and old comics is primary to adding whats actually shown in the Show and connected Canon products.
Why would you actually want whats in the show? or even whats talked about in the show? or chracter bio's that follow the show... included in a book that should be based off the show???

Chris0013 wrote:Considering how big they made the Condor...the Jackal would be a beast.

Yeap. I don't recall seeing the unit in the show, RCSF spotted sections of a dismembered unit in the animation (remains are incomplete).

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m77/ ... ndor01.jpg

There might be one in the Invid Invasion opening stills. Bottom left, appears to be missing its left arm and two of the packs on top.

ShadowLogan wrote:No. The Jackal basically is a larger version of the Condor

Actually, according to the lineart provided by Roger Harkavy, it would appear the Jackal is shorter. The lineart for the AS-C03 Condor indicates its 8.9m tall (same as the Alpha). The Jackal would appear to be about 6m or thereabouts.

Where did the name "Jackal" come from?

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:No. The Jackal basically is a larger version of the Condor

Actually, according to the lineart provided by Roger Harkavy, it would appear the Jackal is shorter. The lineart for the AS-C03 Condor indicates its 8.9m tall (same as the Alpha). The Jackal would appear to be about 6m or thereabouts.

Well in all the lineart I've seen of the two together (which admitdly isn't much) the Jackal was always drawn to be bigger than the Condor.

ShadowLogan wrote:Well in all the lineart I've seen of the two together (which admitdly isn't much) the Jackal was always drawn to be bigger than the Condor.

Thing is that the lineart you're talking about is from 2 different sections, pieced together. The perspectives for them are completely and totally different. As I said, Harkavy's artwork shows how big the Jackal is because the operator sits in the 'nose' section whereas the Condor has a standard pilot's compartment set between the shoulders.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:Well in all the lineart I've seen of the two together (which admitdly isn't much) the Jackal was always drawn to be bigger than the Condor.

Thing is that the lineart you're talking about is from 2 different sections, pieced together. The perspectives for them are completely and totally different. As I said, Harkavy's artwork shows how big the Jackal is because the operator sits in the 'nose' section whereas the Condor has a standard pilot's compartment set between the shoulders.

IINM the comparison art that people are using was originally rescaled and edited together by me in like 2002.

dataweaver wrote:Where did the name "Jackal" come from?

fan creation, AFIAK

the original artwork was one of several proposed concept arts for what became the condor battloid.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:No. The Jackal basically is a larger version of the Condor

Actually, according to the lineart provided by Roger Harkavy, it would appear the Jackal is shorter. The lineart for the AS-C03 Condor indicates its 8.9m tall (same as the Alpha). The Jackal would appear to be about 6m or thereabouts.

The Vector AF-2 (Early Legioss) and Condor NB-1 (Early Condor) without the packs on top side by side. This is from the Developmental Mospeada Mecha Chart. I moved the two mecha together without changing the scale.
At least during this stage of development the Early Condor was shorter than the Early Legioss, possibly about the same height with the packs added to the Early Condor.

IIRC the reason I scaled the Condors the way I did back in 2002 was because for some reason I was under the impression the screen version Condor was a noticeably smaller mecha than the Alpha and the Jackal version was a slightly larger mecha than the Condor. As to the actual scale I end up with between the two it was so they could link up since I liked the idea of the Jackal version being the Beta's equivalent to the Condor.

From the various art and stills in the actual animation, it appears the final Condor (used in the animation as stills) is a simpler design than the earlier version(s).

dataweaver wrote:Where did the name "Jackal" come from?

IINM all of the images of the early Condor in the IMAI files are labeled Condor (N)B-1 or Early Condor; however, on one sheet the word Jackal A-G appears below the early Condor mecha. There is also Armo-Soldier type 99 beside another mecha on that sheet but its labeled the Cougar NA-5 on the Developmental chart where another mecha is labeled the Jackal NA-1. The uRRG calls these other two mecha the Cougar and Jaguar.

nice!!!

Toy missing from New Generation:
The Protoculture Emulator

The fact that this gizmo was developed at all, suggests that either the ASC or UEEF have technological ways of detecting Protoculture activity, or that the UEEF figured out that the Invid could smell the stuff. Unless the Resistance was VERY smart and managed to cobble up the gadgets(the easiest way, I imagine, would simply be to rig a nearly depleted Protoculture Cell to actively drain, if you didn't mind wasting 'culture). An entry on the gizmo, if properly done, would answer this, and how available the devices were.

Gryphon wrote:On the other hand, if you can detect an emission, and emulate an emission, can you choice to emulate a specific enough emission to make, say a volley of missiles look like a flight of Alphas?!

Ah, the old 'intercept the proximity-fuzed area of effect strategic nuclear missile because it looks like a spaceship on sensors' gag! My favorite!

Gryphon wrote:Yeah, that's pretty much what I was aiming for, that and the old "using massed cluster warheads to take out the enemies interdiction force first" gag...

Somehow I think the Regess and her brood are a BIT smarter than that, in that they should be able to recognize missile weapons.
Getting them to cluster on the ground, however, going after a supposed concealed active protoculture operation, on the other hand. Just like Bernard and Co. did, only writ larger.

Sounds very expensive, and not cost effective for a military, let alone a resistance cell. You would be better off with Alpha drones from that escape route episode in the mountains and Carla.

taalismn wrote:Toy missing from New Generation:
The Protoculture Emulator

The fact that this gizmo was developed at all, suggests that either the ASC or UEEF have technological ways of detecting Protoculture activity, or that the UEEF figured out that the Invid could smell the stuff. Unless the Resistance was VERY smart and managed to cobble up the gadgets(the easiest way, I imagine, would simply be to rig a nearly depleted Protoculture Cell to actively drain, if you didn't mind wasting 'culture). An entry on the gizmo, if properly done, would answer this, and how available the devices were.

How small do you think they can make these? You think that they would play havoc with the Invid Proto. targeting systems. Use them as Chaff in Mecha, or release them around a fleet, confusing the targeting systems.