Forums of the Megaverse®

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:51 am**

Nearly no piece of mecha gets ignored as much in Robotech as the loyal Destroid. As I sit here before you I cannot even name a single Destroid pilot. Which, is sad. Everyone loves the Valkyrie but what about the ole non-transformable walking death-machine? Where's his love!

This thread is dedicated to supporting our loyal destroid pilots and piping up with a firm

Warning: Be nice

to those who would dash their ambitions or overlook them.

But seriously now... does anyone know of any important destroid pilots?
Or...
Have you ever played with (or beside) a destroid pilot that you thought was cool?

Lets give these unsung heroes a little lovin'!

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:03 am**

Before I started playing Robotech(Actually before I knew there was a robotech RPG) I played Mechwarrior(Battletech).
well when I found Robotech I soooooo wanted to play and I rolled up a Destroid pilot running a WHR-7K Warhammer...er...Excalibur!
lol, anyway I lasted about three rounds against a squad of female zents when the Gladiators took off running leaving me in the dust. The only ones that stuck around were me in my Excalibur, and the Rifleman...er...Defender. the Defender couldn't hit the broadside of a barn despite his bonuses, and while I took out two with my ER PPC's..er...PBC's, I missed with all my missiles, and got smoked when the Zents blasted me with their lasers and boobie cannons.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:17 am**

Take solace Raven, you weren't the first Giant Robot pilot to die from boobie-beams--those things are powerful!

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:37 am**

Akashic Soldier wrote:But seriously now... does anyone know of any important destroid pilots?

Define what you consider important?

The only Destroid pilot to be named IIRC was "Dan" during one of the early post-FoA episodes. Rick Hunter also piloted a Destroid he "borrowed" for Monmument in this period, but I would not consider him an Important Destroid pilot (though is is important to overall story, just not in the role of a Destroid jockey).

Nova may have been a pilot in a non-transformable battloid in "Half-Moon", it is hard to say. That was the only time she may have even been in a combat mecha (aside from riding shotgun in Angelo's VHT). Important character sure, but hardly an important destroid/non-transformable battloid pilot).

Invasion Comic had atleast one named Condor Destroid pilot. I forget the name and how much of a role he played.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:47 pm**

Aside from 'Dan'(who, to his credit, did NOT either go Rambo or get red-shirted), no Destroid pilots of name status come to mind. They, as such, are either unsung heroes or Battlepod Paste in the animation, much like the Southern Cross battloid jockeys.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:21 pm**

Remember KIDS fly varitechs MEN pilot Destriods! 8-)

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:26 pm**

Akashic Soldier wrote:Nearly no piece of mecha gets ignored as much in Robotech as the loyal Destroid.

Ah, you'd probably appreciate the way they're treated in Macross more then. There's a little more love for 'em there, MUCH more for the Tomahawk in recent days thanks to Macross the First.

Akashic Soldier wrote:As I sit here before you I cannot even name a single Destroid pilot. Which, is sad. Everyone loves the Valkyrie but what about the ole non-transformable walking death-machine? Where's his love!

Well, the Destroids were only ever really meant to be background mecha in the original Macross series, so that they lack for named character attention is understandable to say the least. Their role could best be summed up as "get shot and blow up to show that things are getting serious."

(Unless it's the Tomahawks in Macross the First, in which case their role is to make up for thirty-odd years of neglect by kicking arse and taking names to an almost show-stealing degree.)

Akashic Soldier wrote:Have you ever played with (or beside) a destroid pilot that you thought was cool?

My long-running Macross II MU had an entire destroid force of about twelve players at one point... Tomahawk II's and GERWALKroids mostly. It was run by a guy who was, IRL, a Gunnery Sgt. in the USMC. Wild times, that. Since a lot of my players are still around, I was thinking of possibly reviving it in an earlier part of Macross II's timeline with a Daedalus II-class assault carrier and some Tomahawks.

Nac87 wrote:Remember KIDS fly varitechs MEN pilot Destriods!

Bah... men fly Valkyries, corpses drive Destroids. :lol:

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:32 pm**

Seto Kaiba wrote:[Bah... men fly Valkyries, corpses drive Destroids.

"You gotta land -sometime-, flyBOY."

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:25 pm**

Gryphon wrote:Fine...I wait ten minutes to ensure you will have blown up right proper like, and then sift through the remains for ammo and chocolate!

We had a game going for a while set in the period immediately prior to the first series, and one of our players insisted on piloting a Destroid, a Spartan initially. He eventually switched to a Phalanx just so he could stay involved in the fight...from several hundred miles away! He even took a shot as a MAC II for a pair of sessions, but that was basically a no go, he as considered too important an asset to commit to the penny ante things going on before the Zentraedi showed up.

If I recall correctly, we were all forced to retreat at speed when our base got overrun, and he stayed and fought the valiant holding action, bagging almost twenty Battlepods before he got overrun, and he still managed to get out of sight and eventually get back to the group. Not real sure what happened after that, I missed a few sessions because of work scheduling...stupid life!

Still, that was one of the most effective showings I have ever seen, besides a really scary showing by a VHT, and an REF Gladiator (no longer canon) holding off over 50 Invid...

The wonders of multiple missile launches. Remember, folks, as impressive as fighter-borne Itano Circuses are, there's no fireworks maestro like a fully-loaded Phalanx.

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:05 pm**

I still remember the first time I ran Robotech, and my entire player group wanted MAC II's...

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:24 pm**

My first ROBOTECH character (actually my first RPG character, period) was an Excalibur driver...and first combat, second round of combat, he got nailed...by an officer battle pod, a full salvo from an LBA and the coup de grace was a double PBC shot from a humble battlepod that got a natural 20 and rolled near max damage...

Ah, good ol' Sloan...poor guy got vaporized in his first firefight

Since then, I have played rather a few more Destroid pilots...actually, I have never had a VT pilot...usually military specialists or destroid pilots. I prefer power or subtlety over arrogance and grace...

-STS

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:47 pm**

taalismn wrote:
Seto Kaiba wrote:[Bah... men fly Valkyries, corpses drive Destroids.

"You gotta land -sometime-, flyBOY."

*snerk* That's what Battroid mode and higher agility are for...

(Tomahawks only truly rock when it's Max at the controls... he completely punked Kamjin (Khyron) in a Mk.VI Tomahawk in Macross the First.)

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:46 pm**

SRoss wrote:I still remember the first time I ran Robotech, and my entire player group wanted MAC II's...

Hey, it's that scene with Khyron finding himself SURROUNDED by MACs....
Of course he got away, but it was still a fight. Still, given what we now know about MAC IIs, that ambush was either the dumbest move ever planned(pushing all those big slow machines into a firefight at point blank range instead of using them to artillery-blast Khyron into muck) or positively brilliant(managing to get all those slow-movers in position so well that Khyron CHARGED into the trap).

Posted: **Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:49 pm**

SRoss wrote:I still remember the first time I ran Robotech, and my entire player group wanted MAC II's...

10 days after the battle is over they arrive at the objective.

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:02 am**

One player in my Robotech campaign snagged himself a M.A.C. Mini-Monster, to him it was a super Tomahawk

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:05 am**

Snake Eyes wrote:One player in my Robotech campaign snagged himself a M.A.C. Mini-Monster, to him it was a super Tomahawk

Oh, the beloved Mini-Monster; yet another Strike Force mecha that deserves to be brought forward to the new edition. :bandit:

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:57 pm**

taalismn wrote:
Snake Eyes wrote:One player in my Robotech campaign snagged himself a M.A.C. Mini-Monster, to him it was a super Tomahawk

Oh, the beloved Mini-Monster; yet another Strike Force mecha that deserves to be brought forward to the new edition.

Exactly

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:17 pm**

I loves me some Destroids, part of the new campaign I've been running is to setup a kind of chronicle of the events surrounding one of the first teams of Military Specialist Destroid pilots starting from just before the the Macross Saga.

Now, if you think Destroid pilots get a lack love, what do call what tankers get? :lol:

I remember playing one at one at one of the Open Houses, result of rolling a distrust of robotechology and being a great driver, went 'Alright, I guess this guy needs a tank'. Ended up converting a Dark Knight tank to the new edition scaling on the spot when I realized that it hadn't gotten a reprint. Good times, I even lived.

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:56 pm**

Gryphon wrote:Wait, no one stepped on your tank and rode it like a tracked skateboard! Talk about missed opportunities!

Brings to mind a question I've been wondering for a bit. We "know" that tanks can't compete with Battlepods, Bioroids/Biovers, or Invid, right? How well do you think a tank would do against Destroids, VHTs, UEDF Battloids, and similarly "limited" mobility units? Especially in more open terrains lie deserts, savannahs, and plains?

With equal armor and weapons, conventional AFVs would hose mecha in the open where the destroids' size makes them instant targets. On the other hand, in close quarters, unless the tanks can set up an ambush ahead of time, the terrain favors the mecha. A destroid can shoulder down buildings and WADE through rubble that could stop/bury a tank. A tank may have a low profile, but a destroid can lean over and shoot over the top of buildings that a tank has to drive around to get a clear shot. And if the destroid has hands, other vehicles become ammo. Having a BUS dumped on top of your tank isn't conducive to its continued operation.

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:16 pm**

Armorlord wrote:Now, if you think Destroid pilots get a lack love, what do call what tankers get?

Well, if the OP of Macross VF-X2 is anything to go by, the answer is "Stepped on".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDXcrTducFA (@ ~1:30)

EDIT: Better quality video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hbkL_xIcRY

(Brings to mind a line from a WH40K comic about a Titan crew: "Target 2... um... flat, princeps.")

Gryphon wrote:Brings to mind a question I've been wondering for a bit. We "know" that tanks can't compete with Battlepods, Bioroids/Biovers, or Invid, right? How well do you think a tank would do against Destroids, VHTs, UEDF Battloids, and similarly "limited" mobility units? Especially in more open terrains lie deserts, savannahs, and plains?

Depends how "limited" we're talking here... the RPG says the destroids are kinda cumbersome, and the Monster definitely is, but most of 'em kind of get screwed by Palladium's writers and the game's (understandable) emphasis on the VFs. If we're talking the animation, I must protest at the inclusion of the VHT in the "limited mobility" category. The Spartas hover tank gets depicted as being quite nimble overall, though [Guardian/Walking Cannon] mode slows it down a fair bit. Some of the other Southern Cross Army mecha aren't slouches in the mobility department either.

As taalismn put it, if you gave the tanks the same armor and armor-piercing ammunition favored by the humanoid mecha, they'd probably do all right for themselves. The main drawbacks of the tank would be that, in most cases, they wouldn't be able to use their smaller size to best advantage because they would need to keep a fair distance from their target so their guns would be able to elevate far enough to hit something vital, and that they're not quite as adept on broken terrain as a walker is. IMO, there's a really fantastic visual demonstration of this principle in action to be had in Mobile Suit Gundam: MS IGLOO 2 ~ The Gravity Front Ep2, where a bunch of M61A5 tanks take on a team of MS-06J Zaku II's led by Zeon ace Elmer "the White Ogre" Snell. (EDIT 2: found an AMV with it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSz7nKYNSTo)

(Macross makes things a little fairer on the tankers, giving them the heavy Anti-ECA rounds they need to deal a mortal wound to something like a VF, but skewing things against them because they don't have enough internal space for a power plant sufficient to drive energy conversion armor of their own or a linear drive for operating outside a ship... making them something of a "glass cannon".)

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:45 pm**

Where in the "Time-line" would that videogame take place? or is it one of the games that was supposed to link SDF-Macross to Macross II? thou the animated side look to remind me of Macross-+.

The VHT is hardly cumbersome or slow in any mode... it can keep pace with the bioroids running (and a fair speed for something with such short legs). can Hover in all 3 modes if you follow the animation, and can make impressive jumps and maneuvers in tank mode and even fire in mid air... but that is a Sterling in the cockpit.. combine Raw-Talent and Genetic heritage...

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:47 pm**

Gryphon wrote:Oh come on!!! That's a freaking transforming MAC II doing the stepping, that's hardly fair!!!

Well, yeah... it's a VB-6 König Monster variable bomber, but the principle remains the same. (There's some stomping on tanks in that Gundam video I linked as well, done by a Zaku II.)

Gryphon wrote:Also, are those railguns of some sort? They charge up, but generate a lot of recoil.

Yep, the König Monster traded in the old 400mm liquid-cooled cannons used by the original Monster for a quartet of 320mm anti-ship railguns.

Gryphon wrote:I characterize the VHT as slow because it has to slow itself to deploy is main gun. Battloids are slower than Battlepods, though we see the VHT performing some impressive moves in Dana's hands, though Battloids seem to lack some of that potential, though that could be an artifact of their being mooks rather than bring central players to the story. I recall a fanfic somewhere with a Battloid holding a mountain pass somewhere sounding much more capable.

Granted, the Spartas needs to slow down or stop to deploy its main mount... but it's still a capable and deadly platform if it's only using its lighter sub-weapons. It's not, strictly speaking, a slow or cumbersome unit in terms of its agility, its main gun just needs a stable firing position. It wouldn't actually NEED to use that main mount to pop a tank (or even a Bioroid), but there's no kill like overkill, right?

Colonel Wolfe wrote:Where in the "Time-line" would that videogame take place? or is it one of the games that was supposed to link SDF-Macross to Macross II? thou the animated side look to remind me of Macross-+.

Ah, that'd be from Macross VF-X2, which is a canon video game in the main Macross timeline whose events are set in the 2050-2051 time period. It's one of several titles that lurks in the twelve year gap between Macross 7 and Macross Frontier. The games that fill in the Macross II timeline are Macross 2036 and Macross: Eternal Love Song, which aren't quite as graphically advanced (being that they were for the Turbografx-16 rather than Sony's Playstation). Since you asked, here's a sampler of game footage and cutscenes from the first Macross II prequel game, Macross 2036.

EDIT: Since you mentioned Dana, it's worth noting that the woman in the Macross 2036 video I linked would be her Macross equivalent, Komilia Maria Jenius, in her first starring role as an adult.

Colonel Wolfe wrote:The VHT is hardly cumbersome or slow in any mode... it can keep pace with the bioroids running (and a fair speed for something with such short legs). can Hover in all 3 modes if you follow the animation, and can make impressive jumps and maneuvers in tank mode and even fire in mid air... but that is a Sterling in the cockpit.. combine Raw-Talent and Genetic heritage...

Either way, it's no slouch... its agility is more in line with a VF-1 than a Destroid. Weird to have us both arguing on the same side, ain't it?

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:32 pm**

honestly no reason to debate the issue about the VHT... the actual series shows one thing, the RPG say another... and personal opinion picks which one you believe.

Posted: **Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:39 pm**

Gryphon wrote:Meh, just proves you can both be wrong at the same time, that's all... ;P

Seriously though, I am not saying it's lacking agility, just that to deploy its main weapon, necessary to pop a heavily armored tank, it needs to trade some degree of agility, which we see in the series pretty well. The only real exception is the series ace, and as stated, she's a Sterling and a Parino no less! Although I have to ask, do you guys see the VHT in Battloid as being more agile than the other Battloids we see? I know we see little of their potential, but I am seeking an opinion here, rather than real performance specs...you know, those things we basically don't have from that part of the arc.

We see damn little enough of the other battloids to really give a good comparison...Usually they appear in time to get smacked down by the Tirolians' big guns or death-from-aboved by the Bioroids, while Dana's squadron is shown running serpentine and linebackering through horizontal hellfire, bouncing around, and generally dancing around the battlefield, in spite of being built like gorillas, seeming to prove that the Veritech Mystique of uber-ability is alive and well in VHTs.

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:34 am**

Seto Kaiba wrote:IMO, there's a really fantastic visual demonstration of this principle in action to be had in Mobile Suit Gundam: MS IGLOO 2 ~ The Gravity Front Ep2, where a bunch of M61A5 tanks take on a team of MS-06J Zaku II's led by Zeon ace Elmer "the White Ogre" Snell. (EDIT 2: found an AMV with it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSz7nKYNSTo)

That video is super badass, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:05 am**

taalismn wrote:We see damn little enough of the other battloids to really give a good comparison...Usually they appear in time to get smacked down by the Tirolians' big guns

Ah, the leveling glories of starship artillery... under which all things are rendered equal.

taalismn wrote:seeming to prove that the Veritech Mystique of uber-ability is alive and well in VHTs.

In all fairness, the other Southern Cross Army mecha seem pretty spry in the original OP of the Southern Cross series, but like all background mecha they get the short end of the stick when it comes to screen time and, like destroids, their job is to die spectacularly to show that sh*t is getting real.

However, since we're supposed to be sharing some destroid-related awesome instead of doom & gloom, there are a few nice scene-stealing tidbits for destroids in Macross. Apart from Kamjin getting his butt kicked by Max in a Tomahawk and a new version of the Daedalus Attack that has Tomahawks mag-locked to the exposed inside of the Daedalus' bow door in the ongoing Macross the First manga, there was also a new/updated version of the ADR-04 Defender that appears in the serialized novel Macross the Ride (pic here), and there's also a boss battle in the canon video game Macross M3 against a pair of Mk.II Monster destroids equipped with barrier systems.

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:02 am**

Seto Kaiba wrote: (pic here)

well... That's a nice mecha.... I'll make the IMU version for my games

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:11 am**

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Seto Kaiba wrote: (pic here)
well... That's a nice mecha.... I'll make the IMU version for my games

Give it hyper-accurate SAMs, and we got a real Gnerl-slayer here... :ok:

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:38 pm**

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Seto Kaiba wrote: (pic here)
well... That's a nice mecha.... I'll make the IMU version for my games

IMO that looks more like a full production model/upgrade to the Defender them a slapped together IMU. Arms are probably GAU-8 Avenger 30mm guns (I guess you could make the 55mm) and you have no less then 20 MRM or LRM's for long range anti-air or missile arty work.

I have placed Blazer defense turret on both the Phalanx (replaces that worthless searchlight) and Spartan (replaces the nearly worthless dual lasers) Destriods. Gives them both a much needed anti-air punch.

Also who else has decided that since the Tomahawk, Defender, and Phalanx share the same leg units ALL of them should have the leg mounted mini-missiles?

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:36 pm**

jedi078 wrote:[Also who else has decided that since the Tomahawk, Defender, and Phalanx share the same leg units ALL of them should have the leg mounted mini-missiles?

Easy enough to pull off with some extra wiring and fire control installed in their cockpits. :bandit:

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:05 pm**

taalismn wrote:
jedi078 wrote:[Also who else has decided that since the Tomahawk, Defender, and Phalanx share the same leg units ALL of them should have the leg mounted mini-missiles?

Easy enough to pull off with some extra wiring and fire control installed in their cockpits.

There shouldn't be any extra wiring or any of that BS needed. It should be a feature shared by all three mecha. Besides the Defender, and Phalanx could use the extra firepower.

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:17 pm**

Also who else has decided that since the Tomahawk, Defender, and Phalanx share the same leg units ALL of them should have the leg mounted mini-missiles?

This is what i do

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:43 pm**

"Fire Mission Designate Delta-Zero-Zero-Fiver-Foxtrot-Alpha!"
"FIRING!"
"What is ETA of strike? Repeat, what is ETA of strike?"
"Oops..." :oops:

"What do you means 'oops'?"
"Sorry, Birddog. ETA of strike delayed. Accidentally toggled off my leg Hammerheads instead of my Derringers. Resetting strike. Okay, FIRING! ETA in fifty seconds!"
"Ah, and the ETA on those Hammerheads?"
"Just splashed down in the base motorpool fifteen seconds ago." :ugh:

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:10 pm**

taalismn wrote:
Gryphon wrote:Wait, no one stepped on your tank and rode it like a tracked skateboard! Talk about missed opportunities!

Brings to mind a question I've been wondering for a bit. We "know" that tanks can't compete with Battlepods, Bioroids/Biovers, or Invid, right? How well do you think a tank would do against Destroids, VHTs, UEDF Battloids, and similarly "limited" mobility units? Especially in more open terrains lie deserts, savannahs, and plains?

With equal armor and weapons, conventional AFVs would hose mecha in the open where the destroids' size makes them instant targets. On the other hand, in close quarters, unless the tanks can set up an ambush ahead of time, the terrain favors the mecha. A destroid can shoulder down buildings and WADE through rubble that could stop/bury a tank. A tank may have a low profile, but a destroid can lean over and shoot over the top of buildings that a tank has to drive around to get a clear shot. And if the destroid has hands, other vehicles become ammo. Having a BUS dumped on top of your tank isn't conducive to its continued operation.

while all of that sounds most nifty...

Bradleys can knock down buildings and manuever over the wreckage...as well as plow right through external security walls made of cinderblock and masonry...

Abrams tanks easily go through buildings and as long as you don't pivot steer while being buried by, or on top of a mound of wreckage, you are pretty good...throwing track while on a mound of scrap metal sucks

As for the bus...well, AFV's can rip a bus in half lengthwise and drag the stuck on wreckage for a few hundred feet before it falls off...and the sad thing is, that impact wasn't all that obvious to the crew.

Smaller vehicles under a few tons just get crushed with only a few scratches.

The issues with AFV are:
poor operational/strategic mobility
fuel/range issues
long supply lines...with a lot of different types of widgets and repair crew needed

None of these issues are solved with mecha except fuel and range. Also, instead of a crew, you need only a single pilot.

The problem is that any new tech that could be used on a mecha can be used in a more conventional system, which would then turn into something akin to a BOLO...

-STS

Posted: **Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:38 pm**

slade the sniper wrote:[

The problem is that any new tech that could be used on a mecha can be used in a more conventional system, which would then turn into something akin to a BOLO...

-STS

My Combat Center elevates my Combat Reflex to maximum response speed, even as the combat link updates the latest position of the alien warships hovering outside Earth's atmosphere. Long range radar and visual optics profiles matched against known enemy types give me the basis for a target priority evaluation; even as my evasion subroutine lays out a movement pattern to minimize the chances of enemy fire pinpointing my location, given observed speed of their energy weapons and predicted sensor acuity, my targeting has chosen six enemy vessels as my first concerns. After that, it will be targets of opportunity, provided I survive the initial enemy strike. I arm my Hellrails and energize their firing sequences.
Across the hemisphere, through the Battlenet, I sense my fellow Dinochrome brethren raise their main batteries skyward to greet the Zentraedi armada.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:32 am**

Gryphon wrote:Wait, no one stepped on your tank and rode it like a tracked skateboard! Talk about missed opportunities!

Brings to mind a question I've been wondering for a bit. We "know" that tanks can't compete with Battlepods, Bioroids/Biovers, or Invid, right? How well do you think a tank would do against Destroids, VHTs, UEDF Battloids, and similarly "limited" mobility units? Especially in more open terrains lie deserts, savannahs, and plains?

Don't get me going on that topic, I have a couple of long threads buried in the archives here about why a tank made to the same technology level as a destroid is going to outperform the destroid in all but a few corner cases.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:29 pm**

MDC tanks would actually be cheaper then destroids, could carry more armor, a better weapons payload and could hide, maneuver better and be faster in certain environments then a destroid.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:53 pm**

Arnie100 wrote:MDC tanks would actually be cheaper then destroids, could carry more armor, a better weapons payload and could hide, maneuver better and be faster in certain environments then a destroid.

Well, in theory, the miraculous new Robotechnology was outpacing more conventional tech, and the military folk wanted something to a size that could stand eye-to-eye with the alien giants. After the Macross saga, I guess inertia just carried that design idea forward.
Though I should note, the tanks in the RDF Guide were fairly competitive in terms of stats, and bumped up to equivalent stats they seem to continue to do well in the current version of things as well.
Judging from New Gen and TSC, it looks like ground forces developed more toward light and mobile units, by and large, but I have hopes that the Marines book will give us more ground pounder gear.
Until then, I still have the gear from the old books.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:18 pm**

jedi078 wrote:IMO that looks more like a full production model/upgrade to the Defender them a slapped together IMU. Arms are probably GAU-8 Avenger 30mm guns (I guess you could make the 55mm) and you have no less then 20 MRM or LRM's for long range anti-air or missile arty work.

You'd be right... that's a newer mark of the Defender chassis (Mk.XV) armed with a pair of 30mm rotary cannons (M161A3), optional micro-missile pods (60 micro-missiles total), and massively upgraded onboard systems. It's actually an entirely new development in 2058, and uses tech developed for the 5th Gen VFs in Macross Frontier.

jedi078 wrote:Also who else has decided that since the Tomahawk, Defender, and Phalanx share the same leg units ALL of them should have the leg mounted mini-missiles?

As a point of interest, they DO all have the same drive train (lower body). The sticking point is that, in actual fact, none of them have leg-mounted mini-missiles.

slade the sniper wrote:Bradleys can knock down buildings and manuever over the wreckage...as well as plow right through external security walls made of cinderblock and masonry...

Abrams tanks easily go through buildings and as long as you don't pivot steer while being buried by, or on top of a mound of wreckage, you are pretty good...throwing track while on a mound of scrap metal sucks

As for the bus...well, AFV's can rip a bus in half lengthwise and drag the stuck on wreckage for a few hundred feet before it falls off...and the sad thing is, that impact wasn't all that obvious to the crew.

The obvious catch, and one aptly demonstrated by the Abrams in the most recent Iraq war, is that all of those tanks don't do so good on broken terrain and steep inclines, which generally aren't much of an issue for walkers. (Hilariously subverted in Dai-Guard, but that's beside the point).

slade the sniper wrote:The issues with AFV are:
poor operational/strategic mobility
fuel/range issues
long supply lines...with a lot of different types of widgets and repair crew needed

None of these issues are solved with mecha except fuel and range. Also, instead of a crew, you need only a single pilot.

Well, if you'll forgive me for drawing on the OSM while I leap to the defense of destroids... the mobility thing isn't true, as the advances in technology both increased the durability of the moving parts AND made them fairly mobile. We see in the series that the destroids are perfectly capable of running (except for the Monster) at a decent clip, and some among 'em are capable of quite exceptional maneuvers (as demonstrated in Macross Zero, Macross the First, etc.) that pretty much negate the idea of poor mobility. (Deployment, well, that's another issue... destroids are primarily meant to serve as defensive weapons, but there are ways to get them around quickly if you need to.)

The long supply lines thing is the only beef that would be shared, and the area where tanks have an obvious advantage.

Armorlord wrote:Well, in theory, the miraculous new Robotechnology was outpacing more conventional tech, and the military folk wanted something to a size that could stand eye-to-eye with the alien giants. After the Macross saga, I guess inertia just carried that design idea forward.

Something like that, though since the humans in both Macross and Robotech were expecting to be fighting giant something-or-other even after their war with the Zentradi, that they kept going the giant robot route isn't surprising. The Macross universe does show late-model tanks circa 2059, and offers a reason why they remain rear-echelon and light support units... they're armored with the same stuff as destroids, but to the same thickness because of the limitations on their size, and they don't boast power plants sufficiently powerful to run energy conversion armor, meaning they come up short compared to destroids in toughness as well as being less agile. (The reason they've been retained is because they make for great urban defenses, esp. inside the colony domes, since they're small enough to maneuver safely on streets in the city, and they don't wreck the pavement the way a battroid does.)

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:15 pm**

Seto Kaiba wrote:
jedi078 wrote:IMO that looks more like a full production model/upgrade to the Defender them a slapped together IMU. Arms are probably GAU-8 Avenger 30mm guns (I guess you could make the 55mm) and you have no less then 20 MRM or LRM's for long range anti-air or missile arty work.

You'd be right... that's a newer mark of the Defender chassis (Mk.XV) armed with a pair of 30mm rotary cannons (M161A3), optional micro-missile pods (60 micro-missiles total), and massively upgraded onboard systems. It's actually an entirely new development in 2058, and uses tech developed for the 5th Gen VFs in Macross Frontier.

Yeah well it's gonna be the ADR-04A3 in my games.....the smaller 30mm ammo makes logistics less of a pain, and the addition of the missile launchers somewhat replace the SDR-04 altogether.

Seto Kaiba wrote:
jedi078 wrote:Also who else has decided that since the Tomahawk, Defender, and Phalanx share the same leg units ALL of them should have the leg mounted mini-missiles?

As a point of interest, they DO all have the same drive train (lower body). The sticking point is that, in actual fact, none of them have leg-mounted mini-missiles.
The T-hawks have had the leg mounted missiles since the 1st ed RPG, and they are present in the 2nd ed RPG as well. I'm not really concerned if they are not present in Macross, or seen firing on screen. Most of the T-hawk drivers in my games load up with half smoke and half frag. Smoke to mark targets for the VT pilots, and frag for 'infantry out in the open'.

As an aside each of the RDS-2 Rocket Launcher boxes can easily house a single M260 launcher, meaning you can really have a total of twenty eight 70mm missiles.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:28 pm**

Arnie100 wrote:MDC tanks would actually be cheaper then destroids, could carry more armor, a better weapons payload and could hide, maneuver better and be faster in certain environments then a destroid.

Yes, but chicks dig giant robots.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:40 pm**

taalismn wrote:Hey, it's that scene with Khyron finding himself SURROUNDED by MACs....
Of course he got away, but it was still a fight. Still, given what we now know about MAC IIs, that ambush was either the dumbest move ever planned(pushing all those big slow machines into a firefight at point blank range instead of using them to artillery-blast Khyron into muck) or positively brilliant(managing to get all those slow-movers in position so well that Khyron CHARGED into the trap).

I remember being confused by their choice to do that. Of course Gloval used the Monsters on the front lines on Mars and in defense of the SDF 1 so we can chalk it up them not knowing how to properly deploy their machines.

Oddly enough, when I look at stills the scene with Khyron, body-wise those mecha kind of look like Mini-MACs, except the gun barrels are too long.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:47 pm**

SRoss wrote:[

Oddly enough, when I look at stills the scene with Khyron, body-wise those mecha kind of look like Mini-MACs, except the gun barrels are too long.

Artifacts of quick hand-drawn animation.
And yeah, for a destroid that was not very common and increasingly unpopular due to its lack of mobility and relative fragility(relative to its size), that battle must have used a good number of the MACIIs in the entire HEMISPHERE. Khyron should have been flattered.

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:06 am**

that Episode has problems... the Gun-pods for the VF-1 look to be energy weapons in it... heck a Zent lights a Cigarette with one...

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:31 am**

taalismn wrote:
Gryphon wrote:Seriously though, I am not saying it's lacking agility, just that to deploy its main weapon, necessary to pop a heavily armored tank, it needs to trade some degree of agility, which we see in the series pretty well. The only real exception is the series ace, and as stated, she's a Sterling and a Parino no less! Although I have to ask, do you guys see the VHT in Battloid as being more agile than the other Battloids we see? I know we see little of their potential, but I am seeking an opinion here, rather than real performance specs...you know, those things we basically don't have from that part of the arc.

We see damn little enough of the other battloids to really give a good comparison...Usually they appear in time to get smacked down by the Tirolians' big guns or death-from-aboved by the Bioroids, while Dana's squadron is shown running serpentine and linebackering through horizontal hellfire, bouncing around, and generally dancing around the battlefield, in spite of being built like gorillas, seeming to prove that the Veritech Mystique of uber-ability is alive and well in VHTs.

If you like Marker's "fusion" idea, maybe VHTs have reflex furnaces and other battloids have atomic plants. OTOH mecha do seem to acquire better performance specs when they have good pilots.

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:13 pm**

Colonel Wolfe wrote:that Episode has problems... the Gun-pods for the VF-1 look to be energy weapons in it... heck a Zent lights a Cigarette with one...

Well, lighting with a hot gun barrel is something that is done. I'm more wondering at the amount of tobacco that would go into a Zentradi-scale cigarette.
Then I start wondering it if is all tobacco.. the coca plant is grown in those areas too.
Then I start wondering it there is one more cause for the random violence of the Control Zone Zentradi.
Somehow I can't picture that as out of place with Kyron. :erm:

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:24 pm**

Armorlord wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:that Episode has problems... the Gun-pods for the VF-1 look to be energy weapons in it... heck a Zent lights a Cigarette with one...
Well, lighting with a hot gun barrel is something that is done.

yeah.. but the VF-1 pilot fires of a single "shot" to light it.... it thats a 55mm Slug... idk...
(Single shots... is that even something the GU-11 can do in the rpg?)

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:25 pm**

taalismn wrote:"Fire Mission Designate Delta-Zero-Zero-Fiver-Foxtrot-Alpha!"
"FIRING!"
"What is ETA of strike? Repeat, what is ETA of strike?"
"Oops..."
"What do you means 'oops'?"
"Sorry, Birddog. ETA of strike delayed. Accidentally toggled off my leg Hammerheads instead of my Derringers. Resetting strike. Okay, FIRING! ETA in fifty seconds!"
"Ah, and the ETA on those Hammerheads?"
"Just splashed down in the base motorpool fifteen seconds ago."

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:38 pm**

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Armorlord wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:that Episode has problems... the Gun-pods for the VF-1 look to be energy weapons in it... heck a Zent lights a Cigarette with one...
Well, lighting with a hot gun barrel is something that is done.
yeah.. but the VF-1 pilot fires of a single "shot" to light it.... it thats a 55mm Slug... idk...
(Single shots... is that even something the GU-11 can do in the rpg?)

That always irked me. He should have used the VF head laser to light'em up.
Now I'm thinking about how much tobacco goes into a Zenarette. Do they even bother with filters?

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:43 pm**

taalismn wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Armorlord wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:that Episode has problems... the Gun-pods for the VF-1 look to be energy weapons in it... heck a Zent lights a Cigarette with one...
Well, lighting with a hot gun barrel is something that is done.
yeah.. but the VF-1 pilot fires of a single "shot" to light it.... it thats a 55mm Slug... idk...
(Single shots... is that even something the GU-11 can do in the rpg?)

That always irked me. He should have used the VF head laser to light'em up.
Now I'm thinking about how much tobacco goes into a Zenarette. Do they even bother with filters?

Filters? I can't even imagine them finding something for that. As it is, I'm guessing that they are rolling them in canvas tarps.

Forums of the Megaverse®

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destroid Fan-Thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread

Re: Destriod Fan-thread