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This Warlock spell allows him to transfer his life essence into a Golem, Robot, Tree or whatever.
Is he giving up his casting abilities by doing so?
The question kind of reminds me of the Chiang Ku that gives himself more than 6 tattoos debate...

Giant2005 wrote:This Warlock spell allows him to transfer his life essence into a Golem, Robot, Tree or whatever.
Is he giving up his casting abilities by doing so?
The question kind of reminds me of the Chiang Ku that gives himself more than 6 tattoos debate...

It would depend on if the item they are transferring to can talk, since casting a spell is all verbal according to the book. I believe in one of the Fantasy books there is a warlock who transferred his life essence into a stone golem and he call still cast spells. But I would need to double check that when I get home.

Okay I found it, PFRPG book, Island at the Edge of the World page.74-75. The NPC transferred himself into an Iron Golem, and it says he can still use magic, in fact it is his favorite way of fighting. Even though the book is 1st edition rules, I think it's safe to say that Transferring your life essence into an object does not remove your ability to cast magic.

I would still rule though, that if the item does not have a mouth the warlock cannot cast spells.

in Rifts-SoT series there is a NPC called IRONHEART. He is a Wizard who somehow Transferred His Essence into an Iron Golem (with an Ironheart). He retains his Spell Casting ability, and ability to talk, his entire ppe, etc...everything.

He is however slowly going insane from the Inhuman perceptions and senses of the Golem body.

There is no indication that the mage WOULD lose his spellcasting abilities or anything else other than his physical body.

Also, Rifts: Underseas states that mages can learn to cast spells without the verbal component, so no mouth is necessary if the mage learns to cast spells wordlessly.

Giant2005 wrote:The question kind of reminds me of the Chiang Ku that gives himself more than 6 tattoos debate...

Out of curiosity, what conclusions were drawn from this debate?

--flatline

One of the writers (I think) finally clarified it that the Chaing-Ku can have more than 6 tattoos without penalty.

Killer Cyborg wrote:There is no indication that the mage WOULD lose his spellcasting abilities or anything else other than his physical body.

Also, Rifts: Underseas states that mages can learn to cast spells without the verbal component, so no mouth is necessary if the mage learns to cast spells wordlessly.

This is of great interest to me, would you be able to provide a page reference?


Also there is a rifter, one of the 20s, that has expanded Sorcerous Proficiencies, including one called 'Cast by thought alone' that allows casting with no verbal component.

13eowulf wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:There is no indication that the mage WOULD lose his spellcasting abilities or anything else other than his physical body.

Also, Rifts: Underseas states that mages can learn to cast spells without the verbal component, so no mouth is necessary if the mage learns to cast spells wordlessly.

This is of great interest to me, would you be able to provide a page reference?

I can't find Underseas at the moment, but it appears to be reprinted in the Book of Magic, page 201:
Technically, it could be argued that the passage applies ONLY to Ocean Magic, but the common interpretation is that it applies to all magic:
Characters who cannot speak aloud can concentrate very deeply, saying the incantation in their mind, but can only cast one spell per melee round, and it counts as three melee actions. The spoken word is really a means of focus and delivery, the magic energy is present in the spell caster no matter what the environment may be.

This was written pre-RUE, so how it interacts with the RUE spellcasting rules is not entirely clear.

Thank you, Pyrus

Warlocks do not need to speak to cast the magic they are given it is "endowed much like a priest, not learned like a Wizard." I hose rule that it cost double PPE to cast w/o using words for the warlock, while wizards are dependent on it for the most part in PF.

St. Evil wrote:Warlocks do not need to speak to cast the magic they are given it is "endowed much like a priest, not learned like a Wizard."

Warlocks and Priests both cast their spells verbally, like almost every other spellcaster. Warlocks cast their spells "by invoking the elemental power word(s) in a simple chant" (PF2, p. 108), while Priests' spells "are invoked by the chanting of their god's name and the type of spell needed" (PF2, p. 67).

In Mystic China, & in Rifts China 2, mages don't need to talk as there is a component of Silence. That said,
Chi spells are Silent!

Killer Cyborg wrote:I can't find Underseas at the moment, but it appears to be reprinted in the Book of Magic, page 201:
Technically, it could be argued that the passage applies ONLY to Ocean Magic, but the common interpretation is that it applies to all magic:
Characters who cannot speak aloud can concentrate very deeply, saying the incantation in their mind, but can only cast one spell per melee round, and it counts as three melee actions. The spoken word is really a means of focus and delivery, the magic energy is present in the spell caster no matter what the environment may be.
This was written pre-RUE, so how it interacts with the RUE spellcasting rules is not entirely clear.

Does this presumably only apply to low-level spells, seeing as how higher level spells usually take the entire melee (or maybe 2 melees)? Any indication on how it might affect the higher level spells? Maybe double the casting length? Same with rituals, double the length? All I can figure. Although I guess 3 melee attacks isn't double the 2 melee attacks low-level spells normally take, but I'd expect at least a 50% increase.

flatline wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:The question kind of reminds me of the Chiang Ku that gives himself more than 6 tattoos debate...

Out of curiosity, what conclusions were drawn from this debate?--flatline

The Beast wrote:One of the writers (I think) finally clarified it that the Chaing-Ku can have more than 6 tattoos without penalty.

If this is the case, why does Pharaoh Rama-set not have a list of spells?

On the other hand: since it's pretty clear he was a Tattoo Master like his bro Lo Fung prior to becoming a necro, why on earth would a Chaing-Ku with 6+ tats change to a 2nd magic OCC if he couldn't use any of its powers/spells?

I need to check Atlantis to see if it negates only spell-casting or also magical OCC abilities such as necros have to merge with dead. Mention of whether or not Rama-set unifies with dead or attaches limbs to himself might clarify.

The army of mummies Rama-set has with him indicates he can probably do the create mummy ritual, in the least. Seeing as how mummies obey only their master. Unless he has some kinda spellcaster friend making mummies for him and saying 'obey Rama-set in my stead'.

What is utterly broken about ANY Chaing-Ku (moreso than other tattoo-related classes) is it's not very clear on the maximum amount of tattoos someone can get. I think the 'per level' listed in various classes should basically be the maximum that a person can handle. Something like the body will reject additional tattoos if someone with the power to make them tries to make them. Though it does beg the question regarding multiple OCCs of how many tats a Sunaj Assassin/Undead Slayer (the Ahriman have those too) could handle.