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So I finally got my hands on Triax 2, due to my local comic shop taking forever to get any new Palladium products (IIRC, they still have some of the old Robotech books!), and I was suddenly inspired to do something I've wanted to do for a while: Review the mechanical designs and rules of various vehicles, mecha, and powered armor in the books.

It should be noted that I'm looking at this from a narrative standpoint. I haven't had the chance to play the game in a very very long time, and as such this doesn't take any kind of game balance into consideration, unless it's obvious.

What I'm looking at is what the weapon, or machine is designed to do, and how well the rules convey their ability to do so. I will also be looking at how well the rules and image of said weapon match up, and comparative abilities and strength compared to contemporary weapons and systems. I may also make additional comments about the weapon's aesthetics.

As an example:

Coalition PA-06A SAMAS

Design -- Simple but pretty damn effective. Like most original Coalition gear, the Death's Head imagery is pretty much the only symbolic part.

Abilities -- Also simple but effective. It flies at a good pace, and has decent protection. It's MDC is kind of light nowadays, but so it was back when it came out.

Weaponry -- The SAMAS's relative firepower only falls a little short in the face of the usual Codex Creep, but is still good in the patrol sense. The railgun only adds a few extra bursts to cut through modern armor, and the missiles are as effective as ever. Not much to say really.

Improvements -- It's successor the Smiling Jack has the right idea: Increasing the payload of it's missiles. As to improving the SAMAS itself, just simply make the wrist launcher re-loadable and give it a utility belt for carrying an additional four to six missiles.

Basically, something like that. So anyway, here we go:

Triax Weapons

Most of Triax's new weapons are pretty good. A few issues stand out, though:

TX-SL-13 Ultra Sniper Rifle -- The rules kind of under-sell what the description says it is capable of. The damage should probably be at least twice as much as stated. The fluff is contradictory is one thing, too: Earlier texts say that laser weapons have no kick to them, yet the USR apparently has to be braced.

Improvements: Double the MDC damage by at least 50%, if not double or more. Also, consider making it a single-shot railgun instead.

TX Pump weapons, TX-A1 Aktenkoffer Concealed Shotgun -- Nothing wrong per se, but I kind of wish these were mixed together. It would make them a bit more versatile.

TX-H5 Plasma Whip -- It seems a little weird that the spike on the weapon inflicts SDC damage when it's usually being wielded by something with Robotic or Supernatural PS.


TX-11 Predator II

Design -- The classic Trix "Cyclops" look still shines through even with the different artist (this goes for most designs here) Looks very deadly.

Abilities -- While it doesn't have the mass and power of a Super SAMAS, I do think it seems a little slow. I think the Triax engineers would've felt at least a little competitive after seeing that monster.

Weaponry -- The X-11 453E lasers are awesome, but I feel the TX-252 Rail gun is a little redundant. The missiles are also a big improvement, and the blades give it some close combat punch when the Gargoyles get too close.

Improvements -- None. Maybe give it a less redundant weapon.


X-21 War Eagle

Design -- Is it just me, or does the picture make it look like it was originally conceived as a Glitter Boy type? It's too shiny for normal armor.

Weaponry -- It's good for what it needs. Lasers are powerful but quiet, while the forearm lasers make good sidearms.

Improvements -- None. It's a good machine.


X-80 Butterfly

Concept -- Okay, I wanna step back and say a few words about this suit's very existence. It would've made an excellent counterpart to the old T-31 Super Trooper (designed for long range support instead of anti-mecha). Nonetheless, it's cool as is.

Design -- Looks nice, that's all that needs to be said.

Weaponry -- You actually used Short-range Missiles! Thank you so very much. Ever since you came out with Mini-Missiles, the ol' SRMs never got the love they deserved (let's face it, you use Mini-missiles way too much). The things on the back between the launchers look like they could've been Slammers or Medium-Range Missiles.

One thing that bothers me is that the leg missiles seem to be kind of small, given that the previously-mentioned Super Trooper can carry twice as many despite being half the size.

Improvements -- Pretty much what I said about the launchers. It also has the same redundancy issue as the Predator II.


X-700 Fat Boy

Design -- Okay, I admit to saying "huh????" when I first saw it alone. But it, the Hell Angel, and the Devastator II show that Trix sees the Glitter Boy technology differently than North America. It still looks funny.

Weaponry -- A Double-barreled Boom Gun? Seriously? At least that justifies the size. One thing I [/i] don't like, however, is the whole "Laser Gun in one arm, Ion Gun in the other" setup. It's not the first time you've done this, and it's kinda redundant. The extra range (for lowered damage) of the laser is really not justified, especially in the face of the fact that this unit in particular carries Double-barreled Boom Guns.

Improvements: Give it better forearm weapons. That's about it.


X-710 Hell Angel

What's the only thing scarier than a Double-Barreled Boom Gun? A Flying Boom Gun!

Design -- Not very distinctive. It looks a lot like a War Eagle with bigger guns. I know there are real differences, but that's the overall effect.

Weaponry -- Boom Guns, even Flying Boom Guns, are Boom Guns. The Particle Beam Rifle actually works well here, and the plasma guns make good emergency weapons. In fact, put those on the Fat Boy's arms.

Improvements -- None.


X-1001 Ulti-Max II

Design -- While I do kinda miss the lines of the original, I like the fact that this redesign makes it look like it's been accepted into the NGR Military "family".

Abilities -- Sadly, all the new armor plating of the Ulti-Max II seems to be made of tin, as it has about the same MDC as the original. That is to say, it's got less MDC than smaller power armor suits that have to save room to fit a pilot's limbs.

Weaponry -- The original Ulti-Max seemed to be fit for a Shock Trooper role: stride into the teeth of the enemy assault, taking everything thrown at it and providing mobile cover for Jaegers behind it (at least, that's my opinion. The original could do it through sheer MDC, but comparatively, the present suit is a little lacking. It makes up for that with a metric *bleep*ton of mini-missiles to blow whatever's shooting at it away. The vibro-blades are also a very nice touch for close-range combat. Also, the TX-series shields can help offset the lack of MDC growth.

Improvements -- Seriously, the Ulti-Max II needs at least another 100-200 Main Body MDC.

Coming in part II: Robots and Vehicles.

Now the first round was pretty easy, because the stats work pretty well, from a semi-in-universe standpoint, at the personal level (Which includes Power Armor). Problems, in my opinion, start when you try to scale up the damage. This starts at the Vehicle/Mech scale, and honestly starts to get worse as the guns supposedly get bigger. I say "supposedly" because for the most part they don't. So once more, here we go...

X-1471 Wolfhound
I like this machine. It's almost the Rifts equivalent of a Zoid.

Design -- From an aesthetic standpoint, I don't like the recessed head, but it makes tactical sense, so I can let it slide. I also think the lack of a top-mounted turret (okay, so Zoids has spoiled me some) leaves the flanks and rear kind of unprotected, but the Wolf bots make up for that some.

Abilities -- It runs pretty darn fast, and the fact that it's designed to operate as the nerve center (Alpha) for a pack of Wolf robot drones is awesome. It's a good way to help offset the Gargoyles' numbers, and it's something the other big bots probably should've looked into.

Weaponry -- As a main weapon, the laser is kind of weak. Seriously, 1D4x10 on a heavy machine like a tank or mecha is something that should be considered Anti-personnel. This, sadly, is not the first time this problem is made in the book, much less Rifts as a whole. In this case it's actually not all that bad, as the Wolfhound isn't that much bigger than the Triax heavy Power Armors.

The Railgun is good as it is, though if you're going to use a Gatling, it should either be an early design or have a much higher rate of fire.

Mini-missiles are okay, but like I said with the Butterfly, They're a little overused.

The laser eyes are another bit of contention. Just because they are based on the old EIR laser eyes, doesn't mean they should be just as weak. They should be about twice the damage, or maybe use the Particle Beam eyes at least.

Improvements -- Aside from the weapon notes above, I would say give it something to cover it's rear. Even a smoke discharger would do it some good.

X-2010 Longstrike -- Probably one of the best "F You and the Horse You Rode in On" designs Triax ever created. It has only one purpose: Blow the crap outta the enemy from way over there.

Design -- The Longstrike looks nothing like the usual Triax military designs, and the fluff actually justifies this. The only problem I have is that it's hard to tell where the other two crewmen go. Does the cockpit slide out like a drawer or something?

Weaponry -- The Dragonwing arms or gatlings may be a little redundant both together. Consider that a Longstrike isn't supposed to be anywhere near the front. But no kill like overkill.

Improvements -- Nothing really. The Longstrike has one job, and does it petty darn well. If something else needs to be done, Triax has plenty of other mecha for that. Maybe an option for carrying Medium Range Missiles is all I could possibly think of.


X-2020 Rainmaker
The mech with the best vision.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Design -- Looks kinda weird, but definitely looks like it gets the job done. The missile launchers may be a little small, though.

Abilities -- The automatic tracking option for the guns is an awesome idea.

Weaponry -- Ah, Flak! I'm sure the Gargoyles'll love picking shrapnel out of their wings on the off chance they do survive. The missiles are a nice touch, too.

Improvements -- None.

X-2525 Faust
If man is still alive.... Whoops, there I go again.

Design -- I'm reminded of the Scout's Domination quote against the Sniper all of a sudden.

Weaponry -- The saws are nice, but maybe a little flashy. The lighting fists literally so . The Slammer actually makes sense, moreso than the ubiquitous Mini-Missiles.

Improvements -- The Faust really needs a powerful but short-ranged energy weapon, probably right under or in place of the Slammer launcher (which can be moved to the shoulders or legs). Something that, after grappling with a Gargoyle or Gargoyle Lord, it can just open up with at point-blank range. Alternately, it could've had a pair of mini-arms with a pair of smaller lasers (4-5D6) and a saw or Vibro-Bayonet.

Next post: The Flyers and Big Boys

This thread is relevant to my interests. I like this. Keep it up.

X-2730 Griffon
On a conceptual level, this is a mecha that I like, but I do not exactly get. The very concept is kind of against most modern military doctrine. You don't want to fight Gargoyles one-on-one in HTH, you want to kill them en masse long before they get that close. Purely speaking, the Longstrike is a better anti-Gargoyle machine than the Griffon. You think this is something Triax would primarily offer to the Adventurer/mercenary market: something that is good at it's job, but it's job doesn't make it a big threat to the NGR military on the off chance it gets into the wrong hands.

But you have to realize that the Gargoyles often use Magic to bypass their shortcomings (no pun intended) when it comes to range. You may not want to engage Gargoyles in hand-to-hand combat, but they DO, and they spend a lot of time and effort in making sure they can do so. So you want to be able to fight Gargoyles effectively, whether you're a hundred miles away like with the Longstrike, or right up close and personal.

Like with the Griffon.

Design -- There's no other way to say it: The Griffon looks like a giant Cyborg chicken. A surprisingly badass-looking Chicken, but I'm fairly certain that Cossacks will refuse to pilot them.

Abilities -- The top speed, feels kind of slow, though faster than any Gargoyle can fly. One would think they'd try to figure out the fastest speed at which the design could safely sideswipe or ram a flying gargoyle, and give it an engine that could do that.

Weaponry -- The Griffon, like the Longstrike, is designed primarily to do one thing pretty damn well: Get in close and make bloody chunks of Gargoyle fall from the sky (You think Faust pilots are "special?" I can think of some really ugly things you could do to a Gargoyle with a Griffon). To soften up the enemy, it has a short-ranged Ion blaster and mini-missiles. The only problem is, you guessed it, bad damage scaling. The Ion blaster has a quarter of the range of the Wolfhound's laser gun but doesn't do any more damage. This would not make it too powerful. Remember, the Gargoyles have a serious numbers advantage the NGR has only recently begun trying to mitigate (and the results of such actions will not be made apparent for another four or five years at least). The idea is not to take on a Gargoyle one-on-one, but to kill the Gargoyle quickly so you can move onto the next one (and thus not get double- or triple-teamed).

Improvements: Increase the MD of the Ion Blaster to 2D4x10. If they decide to make a Griffon II, they might want to increase the speed and Maybe look into some bladed wings.


X-2750 Talon
The Talon seems to be a "Jack-of-all-Trades, Master of None" unit. Not as much firepower as the Dragonwing, not as downright evil in close combat as the Griffon. I suppose the best comparison would be that the Griffon and Dragonwing are like enemy mecha in a Super Robot Wars game, while the Talon would be the one used by the Protagonist.

Design -- The Talon is a decent design, a little more conventional than the Dragonwing and Griffon, and the leg wings are a nice touch.

Weaponry -- The Talon's weaponry is actually pretty decent when you take into account that it's supposed to carry a rifle into battle on top of that. I can't think of any real complaints. But it does bring up a good question: What happens when you use Slammers an airborne Gargoyle?

Improvements -- For what it is, it's good enough.


X-4500 Gunman and X-4600 Sharpshooter
These two mecha are so similar, in both design and armament, I wonder if they didn't both start as two different takes on the same mecha that Kevin (or Taylor and Brandon) couldn't decide between and chose to use both.

Design -- On the outside, these two mecha look like the same robot in different color schemes: A humanoid design with a long-barreled gun over the left shoulder. The primary difference is the sheer number of additional armaments the Gunman carries, while the Sharpshooter focuses primarily on the main gun.

Armaments -- Gunman: The Gunman is probably one of the most underpowered mecha for it's size class in the book. Once again, Weak Lasers rear their ugly heads again. Seriously, you have a laser rifle with literally a tenth of this thing's size (or less) that can match the shoulder cannon's damage. The only advantage the forearm lasers have over the railgun arms is an unlimited capacity, and the leg missiles, just looking at the picture, should have been Short- or Medium-Ranged instead (remember how I said Mini-Missiles tend to be used too much? This is probably one of the clearest examples of that outside of the Three Galaxies). The Slammer launcher and optional armaments are more sensible, though the Particle Beam Cannon option could've stood to be more powerful.

Sharpshooter: The damage of the Sharpshooter's shoulder cannon is more acceptable damage-wise, but I honestly see a missed opportunity here. Simply put, it should've been more like a scaled-up Boom Gun. Probably not that much more powerful than the original model (probably 4D6x10 is fair), but a range of around ten miles (roughly about the range of a modern MBT's main gun). As befits it's name, the Sharpshooter should be picking it's targets carefully (stuff like the heads of Gargoyle Lords, Mages, and Power Armored Gargoyle commanders or the major weapons and parts of Wreckers and Super Bots), firing one to three times to take it out, then moving to a new firing position and finding the next target. You could even give it a low-velocity setting (basically similar to the present weapon) for when it's got to work closely with friendly units or in a town/city.

Improvements -- Pretty much what I stated in Weapons. On the other hand, Maybe next time Triax could design a modular design that could be configured into either design instead of having two separate mechs.


X-5050 Black Death

Design -- I'm not really sure who thought this would be a good idea. I suppose the legs would make it good for climbing the Alps and other mountains, but aside from that, the Misfits should work just fine. Besides, no transport vehicle should ever travel unescorted in the first place.

Weaponry -- To quote Agent J: "Now that's what I'm talkin' about!" A Big Gun that actually delivers Big Damage. The secondary "Heavy" laser cannon, much less so. Ditto with the front lasers. All are underpowered yet again.

Improvements -- Aside from the ones admitted to in it's own fluff text, It needs at least a second pair of side gun turrets, and probably missile launchers for the middle and rear legs. Also, invest in a force field.


X-5001 Devastator Mk II
Fun Fact: The Devastator is slightly smaller than a Mobile Suit (from Gundam).

Design -- Speaking of which, the original Devastator had a lot of design cues from the Gundam. The Mk II is much more clearly it's own mecha, and all the better for it. It looks seriously badass. Well done, Michael (it's kinda a shame the book clips off the right foot and the barrel of the cannon, though. I'd seriously like a full-color print of the picture).

Weaponry -- A very nice selection but... You guessed it, underpowered. Both main weapons could stand for another one or two D6x10 (seriously, as powerful as you made the Black Death's main cannon, the Devastator should at least be half that).

The missiles are all nice. No complaints.

The Belly Guns probably needed to be a little more powerful (like 1D4x10 per barrel).

The vibro-swords, Arm-mounted Boom Guns, and Shocker system are just Eeeeeevil.

Improvements -- Most Improvements, aside from those mentioned, would go towards discouraging and eliminating swarmers: Give the belly guns an automated targeting system, and add a third gun to the rear. Also a simpler system, extrapolated from the Black Knight, also would go a long way to deterring swarmers: Leg-mounted Grenade Launchers that could shower the area around the Mech. Think the systems used by the Zakus in episode 1 of MS Igloo 2: The Gravity Front and episode 8 of Mobile Suit Gundam: the 08th MS Team.

That's all for now, And thanks for the comment. Next up, vehicles.

Also, I'm considering what book/setting to go over next. I'm presently leaning towards the Three Galaxies series, Coalition War Campaign, or South America books. Or maybe I can go back to the first Triax book.

1) I really like the feedback. This is a great thread.
2) Most of the damages have been scaled the way they are because of game play. In the original manuscript, there were larger weapon damages for particular weapons, but some were reduced in the final.
3) Please take into account the number of attacks and damage output that a single vehicle can do when crewed by multiple members. I ran a game at the open house a couple years ago where a fully crewerd gunman and a couple of Ulti-Max IIs laid wasted to a bunch of Gargs. I also ran a game at the Creators Conference where a Devestator Mk. II had destroyed 38 gargoyles before it had taken its first point of damage. Multi-crewed vehicles are the great equalizer. Also, the particle beam weapons of triax have an increased crit range and the Marksman has an increased crit range too.

I would love for additional feedback on the Rifter #55 O.C.C.s if and when you get the chance.

The Galactus Kid wrote:Please take into account the number of attacks and damage output that a single vehicle can do when crewed by multiple members. I ran a game at the open house a couple years ago where a fully crewerd gunman and a couple of Ulti-Max IIs laid wasted to a bunch of Gargs. I also ran a game at the Creators Conference where a Devestator Mk. II had destroyed 38 gargoyles before it had taken its first point of damage. Multi-crewed vehicles are the great equalizer. Also, the particle beam weapons of triax have an increased crit range and the Marksman has an increased crit range too.

Just out of curiosity, where are the rules regarding multiple crewmembers and how many actions the robots get?

Each crew member would get his number of attacks. So if he has 6 attacks and is manning a rail gun, then he would get 6 attacks with that weapon.

XM-350 Rhino

Not only is the Rhino superior to the Phantom in almost every way, it stacks up well against modern tanks in ways other than dishing out/taking damage.

Design -- One primary advantage over the Phantom is, yes, found in the design. The twin-pronged front is cool-looking, but in truth is also a bomb trap. The Rhino eliminates that. I do wish the picture was at a better angle, though.

Weaponry -- The twin particle beam cannons are a small but noticeable improvement over the Phantom's paired laser and PBC. The turrets might not have the variety of the railguns/ion cannon, and the missiles are also a little better. The turrets also give better coverage.


XM-279 Earth Lifter
Triax's Death's Head ripoff was pretty obvious from the start, but they did do something uncharacteristically dumb here...

Weaponry -- Seriously, Triax. The original Death's Head had those side turrets for a reason. Taking them off when you have even more stuff coming at you from the air was just stupid. Other than that, the loadout ain't too bad.

Improvements: Stick a Sonic Stun Projector on that baby. Better yet, install four of them.


XM-199 Phoenix
The bigger brother of the Dragonfly from WB5. Not much else needs to be said. I can only guess they really needed to move more troops for Sea Storm.


XML-280 Black Eagle
I just had a thought. Back in Rifts Underseas, in the picture for the NGR's escort battleship, they show a jet on the landing pad that doesn't resemble any of the planes in WB5. The Black Eagle, on the other hand, does look like it.

Weaponry -- I always find it funny that vehicular "High-powered" lasers only do 3D6 damage. ^_^ But at least the Eagle is carrying three of these babies. That said, the rest of it's list is pretty much boring but effective.


XML-283 Wraith
Now this is a fun design. Again, the next Rifts game, if it comes up with an NGR/Gargoyles expansion, you gotta let people play with one of these.

Weaponry -- Lasers are nice. The only real problem I have is that the launcher should've been made more modular. Of course, there wouldn't be that many Short-or Medium-range missiles there, but what can you do?


XML-285 Ghost

The Ghost is like most Stealth Fighters on the surface, though the optional communications center is a nice tough.


No, I didn't forget this, Not entirely anyway.

very well done man!!!!

I really like your assessment. I would like to point a few things out. The Triax military machine is fairly integrated with aircraft, robots and power armor in everylevel of the armed forces. Many things were designed at the same time and the book (and additional official material in Rifter #51) offers a ton of options for players. Take a look below.

SAMASzero wrote: XM-199 Phoenix
The bigger brother of the Dragonfly from WB5. Not much else needs to be said. I can only guess they really needed to move more troops for Sea Storm.

Not only is there a need to move troops,. but there more of a need to move and transport materiel. The Phoenix allos for rapid deployment of robots, power armor, deployment pods AND mobile fortifications (Rifter #51).

SAMASzero wrote:
XML-280 Black Eagle
I just had a thought. Back in Rifts Underseas, in the picture for the NGR's escort battleship, they show a jet on the landing pad that doesn't resemble any of the planes in WB5. The Black Eagle, on the other hand, does look like it.

Weaponry -- I always find it funny that vehicular "High-powered" lasers only do 3D6 damage. ^_^ But at least the Eagle is carrying three of these babies. That said, the rest of it's list is pretty much boring but effective.

XML-283 Wraith
Now this is a fun design. Again, the next Rifts game, if it comes up with an NGR/Gargoyles expansion, you gotta let people play with one of these.

Weaponry -- Lasers are nice. The only real problem I have is that the launcher should've been made more modular. Of course, there wouldn't be that many Short-or Medium-range missiles there, but what can you do?


XML-285 Ghost

The Ghost is like most Stealth Fighters on the surface, though the optional communications center is a nice tough.


No, I didn't forget this, Not entirely anyway.

The vehicles here sre fairly basic and could even be percieved as lackluster. That is, of course, until you ALSO take into account that the vehicles can only be piloted by the Luftwaffe Cyborg pilots, a new O.C.C. in Triax 2. They fully integrate with the vehicles and are among the best pilots on earth. The vehicles can also be modified with wing hardpoint attachments that carry more ordinance that suppliments what the vehicles already bring to the table.

The vehicles here sre fairly basic and could even be percieved as lackluster. That is, of course, until you ALSO take into account that the vehicles can only be piloted by the Luftwaffe Cyborg pilots, a new O.C.C. in Triax 2. They fully integrate with the vehicles and are among the best pilots on earth. The vehicles can also be modified with wing hardpoint attachments that carry more ordinance that suppliments what the vehicles already bring to the table.

Reminds my of this old joke

An F-16 pilot and the other an A-10 pilot talking about the merits of their respective aircraft. The F-16 pilot pointed out his jet, loaded with massive bombs on pylons under the wings. 'Just look at that baby sitting there with those thousand-pounders,' he bragged. 'Can you believe that armament?'
'Nice,' the A-10 pilot said, 'but do you see those two empty pylons under my jet?'
'Yeah -- what do you hang there?'
'F-16s!'

Gamer wrote:

The vehicles here sre fairly basic and could even be percieved as lackluster. That is, of course, until you ALSO take into account that the vehicles can only be piloted by the Luftwaffe Cyborg pilots, a new O.C.C. in Triax 2. They fully integrate with the vehicles and are among the best pilots on earth. The vehicles can also be modified with wing hardpoint attachments that carry more ordinance that suppliments what the vehicles already bring to the table.

Reminds my of this old joke

An F-16 pilot and the other an A-10 pilot talking about the merits of their respective aircraft. The F-16 pilot pointed out his jet, loaded with massive bombs on pylons under the wings. 'Just look at that baby sitting there with those thousand-pounders,' he bragged. 'Can you believe that armament?'
'Nice,' the A-10 pilot said, 'but do you see those two empty pylons under my jet?'
'Yeah -- what do you hang there?'
'F-16s!'

HA

The Galactus Kid wrote:The vehicles here sre fairly basic and could even be percieved as lackluster. That is, of course, until you ALSO take into account that the vehicles can only be piloted by the Luftwaffe Cyborg pilots, a new O.C.C. in Triax 2. They fully integrate with the vehicles and are among the best pilots on earth.

i think the Flesh and Blood pilots of the Scandinavian Flygvapnet would disagree, but then the Luftwaffe borg's would point out the NGR doesn't fly planes that practically fly themselves..

The Galactus Kid wrote:I really like your assessment. I would like to point a few things out. The Triax military machine is fairly integrated with aircraft, robots and power armor in everylevel of the armed forces. Many things were designed at the same time and the book (and additional official material in Rifter #51) offers a ton of options for players. Take a look below.

SAMASzero wrote: XM-199 Phoenix
The bigger brother of the Dragonfly from WB5. Not much else needs to be said. I can only guess they really needed to move more troops for Sea Storm.

Not only is there a need to move troops,. but there more of a need to move and transport materiel. The Phoenix allos for rapid deployment of robots, power armor, deployment pods AND mobile fortifications (Rifter #51).

I wasn't complaining. I was just saying the extra transport capability is pretty much the only reason it exists. Nothing wrong with that, just a fact.

SAMASzero wrote:
XML-280 Black Eagle
I just had a thought. Back in Rifts Underseas, in the picture for the NGR's escort battleship, they show a jet on the landing pad that doesn't resemble any of the planes in WB5. The Black Eagle, on the other hand, does look like it.

Weaponry -- I always find it funny that vehicular "High-powered" lasers only do 3D6 damage. ^_^ But at least the Eagle is carrying three of these babies. That said, the rest of it's list is pretty much boring but effective.

XML-283 Wraith
Now this is a fun design. Again, the next Rifts game, if it comes up with an NGR/Gargoyles expansion, you gotta let people play with one of these.

Weaponry -- Lasers are nice. The only real problem I have is that the launcher should've been made more modular. Of course, there wouldn't be that many Short-or Medium-range missiles there, but what can you do?


XML-285 Ghost

The Ghost is like most Stealth Fighters on the surface, though the optional communications center is a nice tough.


No, I didn't forget this, Not entirely anyway.

The vehicles here sre fairly basic and could even be percieved as lackluster. That is, of course, until you ALSO take into account that the vehicles can only be piloted by the Luftwaffe Cyborg pilots, a new O.C.C. in Triax 2. They fully integrate with the vehicles and are among the best pilots on earth. The vehicles can also be modified with wing hardpoint attachments that carry more ordinance that suppliments what the vehicles already bring to the table.

Why do you think I believe being able to play a Luftwaffe cyborg in a Wraith would be so awesome?

Besides, nothing's wrong with Boring but Effective. It just means the weapon loadout is light on the gimmickry (Which in this case I guess would mean no Slammers). Nothing showy, just fly and kill.

Gamer wrote:

The vehicles here sre fairly basic and could even be percieved as lackluster. That is, of course, until you ALSO take into account that the vehicles can only be piloted by the Luftwaffe Cyborg pilots, a new O.C.C. in Triax 2. They fully integrate with the vehicles and are among the best pilots on earth. The vehicles can also be modified with wing hardpoint attachments that carry more ordinance that suppliments what the vehicles already bring to the table.

Reminds my of this old joke

An F-16 pilot and the other an A-10 pilot talking about the merits of their respective aircraft. The F-16 pilot pointed out his jet, loaded with massive bombs on pylons under the wings. 'Just look at that baby sitting there with those thousand-pounders,' he bragged. 'Can you believe that armament?'
'Nice,' the A-10 pilot said, 'but do you see those two empty pylons under my jet?'
'Yeah -- what do you hang there?'
'F-16s!'

love the A10 man funny man!!!

SAMASzero wrote:

The Galactus Kid wrote:I really like your assessment. I would like to point a few things out. The Triax military machine is fairly integrated with aircraft, robots and power armor in everylevel of the armed forces. Many things were designed at the same time and the book (and additional official material in Rifter #51) offers a ton of options for players. Take a look below.

SAMASzero wrote: XM-199 Phoenix
The bigger brother of the Dragonfly from WB5. Not much else needs to be said. I can only guess they really needed to move more troops for Sea Storm.

Not only is there a need to move troops,. but there more of a need to move and transport materiel. The Phoenix allos for rapid deployment of robots, power armor, deployment pods AND mobile fortifications (Rifter #51).

I wasn't complaining. I was just saying the extra transport capability is pretty much the only reason it exists. Nothing wrong with that, just a fact.

SAMASzero wrote:
XML-280 Black Eagle
I just had a thought. Back in Rifts Underseas, in the picture for the NGR's escort battleship, they show a jet on the landing pad that doesn't resemble any of the planes in WB5. The Black Eagle, on the other hand, does look like it.

Weaponry -- I always find it funny that vehicular "High-powered" lasers only do 3D6 damage. ^_^ But at least the Eagle is carrying three of these babies. That said, the rest of it's list is pretty much boring but effective.

XML-283 Wraith
Now this is a fun design. Again, the next Rifts game, if it comes up with an NGR/Gargoyles expansion, you gotta let people play with one of these.

Weaponry -- Lasers are nice. The only real problem I have is that the launcher should've been made more modular. Of course, there wouldn't be that many Short-or Medium-range missiles there, but what can you do?


XML-285 Ghost

The Ghost is like most Stealth Fighters on the surface, though the optional communications center is a nice tough.


No, I didn't forget this, Not entirely anyway.

The vehicles here sre fairly basic and could even be percieved as lackluster. That is, of course, until you ALSO take into account that the vehicles can only be piloted by the Luftwaffe Cyborg pilots, a new O.C.C. in Triax 2. They fully integrate with the vehicles and are among the best pilots on earth. The vehicles can also be modified with wing hardpoint attachments that carry more ordinance that suppliments what the vehicles already bring to the table.

Why do you think I believe being able to play a Luftwaffe cyborg in a Wraith would be so awesome?

Besides, nothing's wrong with Boring but Effective. It just means the weapon loadout is light on the gimmickry (Which in this case I guess would mean no Slammers). Nothing showy, just fly and kill.

Don't get me wrong, man. I really appreciate the review and the opinion. I really dig it, so let me just say a big THANK YOU!!! I was just making some clarifying comments. Keep up the good work.

glitterboy2098 wrote:

The Galactus Kid wrote:The vehicles here sre fairly basic and could even be percieved as lackluster. That is, of course, until you ALSO take into account that the vehicles can only be piloted by the Luftwaffe Cyborg pilots, a new O.C.C. in Triax 2. They fully integrate with the vehicles and are among the best pilots on earth.

i think the Flesh and Blood pilots of the Scandinavian Flygvapnet would disagree, but then the Luftwaffe borg's would point out the NGR doesn't fly planes that practically fly themselves..

We'll see...

hahaha

Question on the XM-279 Earth Lifter, the fluff describes how the Earth Lifter was vulnerable to swarming tactics by Gargoyles, however the thing flies at 300mph and 40000ft. Just how do the gargoyals catch it when they average around 40mph flight speed with the fastest ones in the flock reaching only 60mph. Or for that matter how can the Gargoyles hope to ever compete with an enemy that is many times faster and has longer range weapons. I have been scouring the texts and the only ways I can think of involve knowing in advance where it is going to land and hitting it when it does, or some kind of magic invisibility hidden assault, but those Gargoyle mages aren't common enough to be part of every gargoyle squad that the flying units just happen to stumble upon. Sure the Gargoyles can always hide in the tree's to prevent detection until flying units come close by, but how can they ever catch something going even 100mph.

Gargoyle flying speed 2d4x10+10 maxes out at 90, 90*20yard/min*60min/hr*1mi/1760yard=61.36mph
Heck Even the X-5050 running on the ground at 45 mph would be difficult to catch since the average speed 2d4x10+10 is 60 ==> 41 mph

Is it the case that anytime a battle goes sour for the NGR troops, anyone that can run more than 60mph can escape for free?

This analysis certainly explains why the Jagger's are the favorite workhorse of the NGR with running speeds of 140mph

frankly, if anyone asks me, the problems the NGR has with the gargoyles has more to do with doctrine than hardware. the earthmover for example, could only be vulnerable to swarming if it loiters around an active battlefield rather than using its speed and altitude to get in and get out, with minimal time over the LZ. the NGR Luftwaffe apparently has trouble with the Gargoyles attacking it's airbases... but doesn't operate a single STOL or VTOL aircraft. either one would allow them to use no airbases, just stretches of highway or reasonably firm fields respectively, allowing them to spread their aircraft out over a wide area and keep them from all being taken out in one strike. likewise they don't have a decent air to ground platform. you can't really dogfight a gargoyle, the NGR needs bombers, mostly tactical bombers, more than they need hyper-fast interceptors or air superiority planes.

on the ground they have similar issues. they invest major resources into giant 'landship' mobile bases..then arm them with weapons useless in taking out gargoyles, like space-opera-warship-sized plasma cannon. when instead they could be feilding a triple turret (or two!) of 16" or 18" guns firing Flak rounds or cannister.. WW2 technology yes, but it works. toss on a few dozen automatic anti-aircraft guns like the jeager can mount, and you have a nice land battleship that is murder on both ground and air targets.


sadly, their gear not matching the needs of their war just means they are human... just look at some of the boondoggles real world militaries have invested heavily in, despite being largely useless in the conflicts they were fighting.

Love the 16-18" cannon idea.
Not only could they be used for gargoyles but it would tear the hell out of a brodkil attack.
Wouldn't have to use conventional cannons make a larger version of the GR155 railgun howitzer.
Hmm might have to alter some landships now.
I wish bombs were paid more attention too as well.
Missiles are nice but expensive and guided bombs are just as accurate and much cheaper.
I've always been impressed with the zoomies and their guided ordnance and ability to wipe targets out.
Airforce generals may not like providing ground support -so the story is said to us- but they have saved more lives on the ground than they think.
Nothing but utmost respect for them pilots.

All right if you wanna talk about tactics the NRG should use against the Gargoyles then its simple, just build more Jaggers with them TX-871mm Interchangeable Rotary Missile Drum Launchers that fire volleys of 48 Short Range Missiles. There's your air superiority, everything dies in one melee action.
What I really want to hear is how can the Gargoyles possibly fight back against the NGR, I mean they are just to slow.

The Galactus Kid wrote:1) I really like the feedback. This is a great thread.
2) Most of the damages have been scaled the way they are because of game play. In the original manuscript, there were larger weapon damages for particular weapons, but some were reduced in the final.
3) Please take into account the number of attacks and damage output that a single vehicle can do when crewed by multiple members. I ran a game at the open house a couple years ago where a fully crewerd gunman and a couple of Ulti-Max IIs laid wasted to a bunch of Gargs. I also ran a game at the Creators Conference where a Devestator Mk. II had destroyed 38 gargoyles before it had taken its first point of damage. Multi-crewed vehicles are the great equalizer. Also, the particle beam weapons of triax have an increased crit range and the Marksman has an increased crit range too.

Feedback about the Devestator as i know you have heard it many times, but just chiming in with the choir,

Is the main gun damage is just silly on both MK1&2,

I know that it can be hell when fully crewed but it doesnt change the fact that the mamoth gun on it does such pathetic damage that it really doesnt make sense.

I am not understanding why it is so hard to just give it some decent damage, and for something that size i would go with 1d4x100. It has to do more than boom guns which are a fraction of its size but not necessarily soo much more due to the tech of the gun not being on par with boomguns. That said, it is equal to a heavy small arm in some places which isnt boomgun tech and makes things that much more unbelievable.

So my suggestion would be is
a)up the damage of it to reflect its massive size
or
b)get rid of the damn thing and just have the mech be a multi weapon platform.

It doesnt matter how good the mech is with all the other guns, as you just need to measure the gun on its basic merits, size, tech lvl and any drawbacks to its design.

I've had the book for almost a year now, but you guys have gotten me in the mood and I think I will do my own review

The new weapons were all very well scaled to the previous weapons produced by triax that is with one exception.
The TX-002 Heavy Weapon Shield is clearly a joke, 30 mini missiles packed into a shield? who needs a gun when you can kill your opponent in the first melee action with this, but you better shoot first or your protective shield will blow up in your face.

I loved the new Predator, SAMASzero made some comparisons with the CS SuperSAMAS, and I honestly believe that it fares quite well in that comparison, its slower but has longer range guns. In any case it is significantly more powerful then the original one. The new pulse lasers might even be a little over powered comparing with similar weapons systems. A really interesting comparison can be made between the Predator II and the Ulti-max II. They have very similar stats with the exception of trading 300mph flight and 6 medium range missles for a 150mdc force field and a whole bunch of mini missiles. Oh yeah and the price difference, 4.9mill to 30mill -- well robots are always a lot more expensive then PAs.

The War Eagle, all right a stealth flying power armor, looks kinda dorky but I can see its value. It could use another stealth system of some kind though.

The Butterfly is another nice addition, looks a lot like the super trooper, although I feel that its role in the NGR military can be better filled by a Jager with the Rotary Missile Drum launcher attachments.

I am not a fan of the new Glitter Boys, I feel that they are very overpowered, especially the Hell Angel. I mean the vulnerability of glitter boys that makes their high Main Body and powerful weapon ballanced in the Rifts series is that they are immobile, but here we are presented with a flying one that can continue to fire while flying at 50mph.

Next we have the Aerial spy drone (which was definitely needed) and extermination bots. The extermination bots I found particularly interesting and can think of entire campaigns that could be based around them.

This brings us to the DV-39 Wolf Drones and the X-1471 Wolfhound. You know when I first saw them I instantly went back to Rifter#1 and remembered the proposed Wolfen Roman Republic in Italy by Robyn Stott. I was disappointed that they were never referenced in the diplomatic relations section or the explanation around operation sea storm (cause I am sure they would have helped), but I guess the roman republic never made it into cannon. In any case these wolf themed vehicles would have been a perfect export to the new roman republic.

I agree with everything SAMASzero said about the X2010 Longstrike. Its a converted civilian robot, although you wouldnt know it from looking at the stats.

The rainmaker has the longest range weapon I have ever seen on Rifts Earth, at 20,000ft. The Galactus Kid pointed out that "Most of the damages have been scaled the way they are because of game play" and I am sure they do the same thing with the ranges. Everything in Rifts is scaled around a small party, which is why even the big guns are limited to 1d6x10 or 2d4x10 even when you have 6 lbs rifles like the wilks 457 that also do 1d6x10. Sitting around chatting with friends that play we often joke around about replacing our big battle tanks main gun that does 1d6x10 with 100 of those pulse rifles duck taped together with a string around the triggers which will do 1d6x1000. The only reason why I think the range on that Rainmakers AA gun got through the filter is because too many aircraft can fly above 10,000 ft and they wanted to add something besides missiles into the game to shoot them down.

The Faust, a robot designed for close range combat with gargoyles... Seems like a bad idea but all right, at the very least it will be helpful in defending the other less melee skilled units when situations get dicey. The same can be said of the Griffon, I'd still rather have a dragonwing.

The Talon seems to be pretty decent. I think SAMASzero was right to compare it to the dragonwing and the Griffon, however I believe that its combat stats are just a little more powerful then either the dragonwing at longer ranges or the Griffon at close range, and its a lot smaller then the dragonwing. While I don't think that they are overpowered, they are slightly more powerful then their contemporaries. As a GM I think I would tag on some additional fluff clarifying that it was an experimental unit that, while outperforming its peers, it went over budget, and as a result its production was limited and is now restricted to specialty roles, like a commander's unit.

I think SAMASzero got the Gunman all wrong. Clearly from the stats it is the new version of the Dyna-Max. Just put slammer missiles on either shoulder and you will see that the stats line up perfectly with minor improvements over the original Dyna-Max. The real significant change is the ability to switch out the shoulder slammer missiles for another type of gun (admittedly the replacements seem a bit weak - the HI laser cannons advantage is the 8000ft range at the cost of 1d4x10 worth of damage). This modular weapon exchange system mimics what the Jagger's can do with their shoulder mounts. Also dong forget about that rocked propulsion system that can boost the speed to 130mph. Although I still would like to see the sharpshooters gun as an option for the shoulder guns

The Sharpshooter is a sniper robot vehicle, designed to shoot them gargoyles in the head from 10000ft away.

I think the X5050 Black death is cool. Its like a bigger Leopard APC, it only goes 45mph but with the proper support that it should have I think it fills its role nicely.

The X5001 Devastator MkII is exactly what everyone says it is, a huge mech with boom guns for wrist blasters, of course it will be a favorite.

Love the Rhino, its my favorite tank in all of rifts by a wide margin, and its stats are all that different then the phantom

Earth Lifter and Pheonix; the NGR has had nice air transport for a while now in the mosquito and dragonfly but the numbers of soldiers and mechs that could be carried were limited. These two new additions fix that.

The new fighters are all quite weak, but when viewed in the context of the amazing skills of the Cyborg Combat Pilot, they become deadly. They basicly have add the combat skills of a Juicer to the vehicle they are flying. I must caution that the potential for abuse of this OCC is significant. The first time I read them I was instantly thinking of ways I could get them into a phaseworld Star Fighter modified to use skills. If the GM allows such a thing then these guys would be unstoppable. Heck even if you were able to modify a mosquito to use the XML interface one of these Cyborg super pilots they would be unstoppable.

But of all the sections in the book, my favorite are the first few sections on the background of events since 104PA, the sacking of Wroclaw, the split in Gargoyle/Brodkil relations, the assassination of the president, the alliance with the New Navy, the Coalition sending 30,000 troops, Operation Sea Storm, and the splintering of the Gargoyle kingdom. You really get a feeling of everything coming together for the forces of mankind and progress moving forward on restoring earth.

Honestly I can say reading the entire book over again really makes me think even more about what the bad guy's are going to do. Atlantis isn't going to let this alliance continue, and I expect the Phoenix Empire to start moving in soon as well. What are the Blood Druids doing? Within the splintered gargoyle factions are there any new gargoyle warlords that are rising up the ranks, you know because conflict breeds hero's both for the good guys and the bad. This line of thought leaves me wanting more, specifically more content on the enemies of mankind. I wanna see new equipment from the phoenix empire and the legions of dead that are being sent to crush the NGR's forces in France. I wanna see reports of fleets of Splugorthian Ark's intercepting Coalition forces crossing the Atlantic. I wanna see a pact between Emperor Zerstrun and the Gene Splicers to create armies of Super Gargoyles in exchange for test specimen. I wanna see the evil millennial tree corrupt the mind of an NGR General and drive him to burn down towns of innocent people. I wanna see the Blood Druids summon a True Demon Lord in Paris who will unite the western gargoyle tribes under his unholy banner. I wanna see the Tarnow Crystal fall into the hands of the Gargoyles.

I sure hope that you guys at Palladium have something in the works to satisfy my appetite. Maybe this whole Demon wars thing will come into play on rifts earth somehow.

DD The Shmey wrote:I sure hope that you guys at Palladium have something in the works to satisfy my appetite. Maybe this whole Demon wars thing will come into play on rifts earth somehow.

One of my upcoming projects that I HOPE to be working on with Josh Sinsapaugh is Monster Kingdoms of Europe which should give you information on a lot of what you're asking for here.

Awesome ^_^
Make sure you include lots of monster equipment, and don't forget anyone.
Is there another forum thread that talks about Monster Kingdoms of Europe and your Sovietski Sourcebook???

DD The Shmey wrote:Awesome ^_^
Make sure you include lots of monster equipment, and don't forget anyone.
Is there another forum thread that talks about Monster Kingdoms of Europe and your Sovietski Sourcebook???

Lots of them. hahaha

DD The Shmey wrote:Question on the XM-279 Earth Lifter, the fluff describes how the Earth Lifter was vulnerable to swarming tactics by Gargoyles, however the thing flies at 300mph and 40000ft. Just how do the gargoyals catch it when they average around 40mph flight speed with the fastest ones in the flock reaching only 60mph. Or for that matter how can the Gargoyles hope to ever compete with an enemy that is many times faster and has longer range weapons. I have been scouring the texts and the only ways I can think of involve knowing in advance where it is going to land and hitting it when it does, or some kind of magic invisibility hidden assault, but those Gargoyle mages aren't common enough to be part of every gargoyle squad that the flying units just happen to stumble upon. Sure the Gargoyles can always hide in the tree's to prevent detection until flying units come close by, but how can they ever catch something going even 100mph.

Gargoyle flying speed 2d4x10+10 maxes out at 90, 90*20yard/min*60min/hr*1mi/1760yard=61.36mph
Heck Even the X-5050 running on the ground at 45 mph would be difficult to catch since the average speed 2d4x10+10 is 60 ==> 41 mph

Is it the case that anytime a battle goes sour for the NGR troops, anyone that can run more than 60mph can escape for free?

This analysis certainly explains why the Jagger's are the favorite workhorse of the NGR with running speeds of 140mph

The ability to retreat faster than the enemy can fly is probably why the NGR has a 20+ to 1 kill ratio against the Gargoyles.

But not every Earth Mover is gonna get hit by Gargoyles every time it flies. It's just that Gargoyles hit them (and other aircraft) every single chance they get, and are usually suicidal in their determination when they do.

Basically, the Gargoyles seem to think the sky is their domain (and advantage), and take Human "intrusion" into it very seriously. Remember, the Gargoyles know where most NGR airports and bases are, and raid most of them sooner or later. You don't always have to know where the enemy is going if you know where they're coming from.

Imagine if you will, that an Earth mover is taking off to supply some NGR forces out beyond their borders. The first opportunity to get hit can come before the ship even takes off, or is even scheduled to. If it happens to be at the airbase when the Gargoyles attack, they're going to make it a priority target as soon as they see it.

The Earth Lifter, assuming it was not attacked (or survived the attack) then takes off and moves towards it's destination. Then there's the chance of attack by an enemy force that has snuck behind the border, spots the lifter coming their way, and acts like a bull seeing a wavy cape. Sure you can outrun a pursuing flock of Gargoyles, but what about when they rise up in front of you? Can you afford to spend the time needed to turn around and run until they give up the chase (not all that likely) or help arrives? And the further out to the border you go, the more likely the chance of attack, and the slower help may be in arriving. These odds shift drastically once you actually pass the border, and the enemy forces rising to challenge you will definitely be bigger, and more likely to include robots and power armor. How confident will you be in your speed advantage when you have a few dozen mini-missiles targeted at your engines?

And even if your survive your first encounter, you'll likely take some damage. How will you fare against a second attack? A third? A fifth?

And you still gotta make the trip back.

DD The Shmey wrote:I've had the book for almost a year now, but you guys have gotten me in the mood and I think I will do my own review

The new weapons were all very well scaled to the previous weapons produced by triax that is with one exception.
The TX-002 Heavy Weapon Shield is clearly a joke, 30 mini missiles packed into a shield? who needs a gun when you can kill your opponent in the first melee action with this, but you better shoot first or your protective shield will blow up in your face.

Yes, but what will you do about the other seven or nine Ga/urgoyes that came with him?

The Butterfly is another nice addition, looks a lot like the super trooper, although I feel that its role in the NGR military can be better filled by a Jager with the Rotary Missile Drum launcher attachments.

I was gonna save this for if/when I went through the first Triax book (I'm considering expanding this to cover the entire NGR like I'm doing with the Three Galaxies), but I really, really hate the implementation of those attachments. Besides, the Butterfly's launchers have better range, and they can accompany other infantry and power armored forces more directly.

I am not a fan of the new Glitter Boys, I feel that they are very overpowered, especially the Hell Angel. I mean the vulnerability of glitter boys that makes their high Main Body and powerful weapon ballanced in the Rifts series is that they are immobile, but here we are presented with a flying one that can continue to fire while flying at 50mph.

Consider that other flying PAs are going two to six times as fast or more, and can fight at full capacity without stopping or slowing down. A Hell Angel in a dogfight against a Super or V-SAM can end very badly for the Glitter Boy if it tries to depend on the Boom Gun.

The rainmaker has the longest range weapon I have ever seen on Rifts Earth, at 20,000ft. The Galactus Kid pointed out that "Most of the damages have been scaled the way they are because of game play"

Now that you mention it, I would still like some better clarification on what that means.

and I am sure they do the same thing with the ranges. Everything in Rifts is scaled around a small party, which is why even the big guns are limited to 1d6x10 or 2d4x10 even when you have 6 lbs rifles like the wilks 457 that also do 1d6x10. Sitting around chatting with friends that play we often joke around about replacing our big battle tanks main gun that does 1d6x10 with 100 of those pulse rifles duck taped together with a string around the triggers which will do 1d6x1000. The only reason why I think the range on that Rainmakers AA gun got through the filter is because too many aircraft can fly above 10,000 ft and they wanted to add something besides missiles into the game to shoot them down.

I'm suddenly reminded of the Shamrock from Valkyria Chronicles, whichhas the option of switching out the main gun for four machineguns. By Rifts' weapon stats, it would be an improvement in the case of many tanks.

The Faust, a robot designed for close range combat with gargoyles... Seems like a bad idea but all right, at the very least it will be helpful in defending the other less melee skilled units when situations get dicey. The same can be said of the Griffon, I'd still rather have a dragonwing.

I blame the Electro-Mace myself. Too many pilots probably got way too fired up when they used that thing (I mean Triax got lots of requests to build a mech-scale Vibro-axe, clearly somebody is channeling the spirit of their Barbarian/Teutonic ancestors a little too well)

The Talon seems to be pretty decent. I think SAMASzero was right to compare it to the dragonwing and the Griffon, however I believe that its combat stats are just a little more powerful then either the dragonwing at longer ranges or the Griffon at close range, and its a lot smaller then the dragonwing. While I don't think that they are overpowered, they are slightly more powerful then their contemporaries. As a GM I think I would tag on some additional fluff clarifying that it was an experimental unit that, while outperforming its peers, it went over budget, and as a result its production was limited and is now restricted to specialty roles, like a commander's unit.

Actually, between Medium-range missiles (even discounting that the CWC missile stats are standard now) and the ability to inflict quad-damage with it's guns at close range, the Dragonwing still holds a big edge in firepower, and that's not counting the optional Slammer bombs and Mace.

I think SAMASzero got the Gunman all wrong. Clearly from the stats it is the new version of the Dyna-Max. Just put slammer missiles on either shoulder and you will see that the stats line up perfectly with minor improvements over the original Dyna-Max. The real significant change is the ability to switch out the shoulder slammer missiles for another type of gun (admittedly the replacements seem a bit weak - the HI laser cannons advantage is the 8000ft range at the cost of 1d4x10 worth of damage). This modular weapon exchange system mimics what the Jagger's can do with their shoulder mounts. Also dong forget about that rocked propulsion system that can boost the speed to 130mph. Although I still would like to see the sharpshooters gun as an option for the shoulder guns

More like the Gunman is designed to cover the shortcomings of the Dyna-max and Black Knight. The Dyna-max is still the superior missile-support machine (even though the Longstrike now smokes it by a large margin), while the Gunman is made more for direct fire, something the Dyna and Black Knight are kinda lacking in separately. In that regard, I suppose it's again like the Talon: The Dyna is close-range missile support, the Black Knight is mostly close combat, and the Gunman is more of, well, a gunner.

The Sharpshooter is a sniper robot vehicle, designed to shoot them gargoyles in the head from 10000ft away.

Which is why I think the gun needs to be a little more powerful.

The new fighters are all quite weak, but when viewed in the context of the amazing skills of the Cyborg Combat Pilot, they become deadly. They basicly have add the combat skills of a Juicer to the vehicle they are flying. I must caution that the potential for abuse of this OCC is significant. The first time I read them I was instantly thinking of ways I could get them into a phaseworld Star Fighter modified to use skills. If the GM allows such a thing then these guys would be unstoppable. Heck even if you were able to modify a mosquito to use the XML interface one of these Cyborg super pilots they would be unstoppable.

They already are. It's listed in the Luftwaffe Cyborg O.C.C., bionics section 2. The thing is, the older craft aren't specifically built to make full use of the Cyborg's enhanced abilities like the XML jets are.

Besides, remember the problems of availability, cost, and time. You'd need to find someone with the skill to make such an upgrade, and the patience to learn the Triax XML OS algorithms then adapt them to Three Galaxies standard . And they might need a Cyber-Doc to help for it to work on the pilot's end. Not to mention they'll probably charge the player and arm and a leg for all this work, too.

You know who might be able to do that? Going by established fluff, maybe somebody somewhere in the Free Worlds Council. Are your players up to running a Khreegor gauntlet to find (and with typical PC luck, rescue) this person? And what if their CO is a General Ripper type who thinks the rebellion might be better served if they detained this awesome piloting Cyborg andsaw what made him tick so they could make similar upgrades to their pilots? Not to mention Imperial Security spies who may have the same idea for their side, and are most likely willing to just kill the cyborg outright to keep this technology out of rebel hands? If they can get through all that, they probably deserve the upgrade.

Remember, sometimes the best answer to attempted exploitation is not "Yes" or "No", but "You can try... "

But of all the sections in the book, my favorite are the first few sections on the background of events since 104PA, the sacking of Wroclaw, the split in Gargoyle/Brodkil relations, the assassination of the president, the alliance with the New Navy, the Coalition sending 30,000 troops,

Sometimes it's nice to see the CS be the good guys for a change.

Honestly I can say reading the entire book over again really makes me think even more about what the bad guy's are going to do. Atlantis isn't going to let this alliance continue, and I expect the Phoenix Empire to start moving in soon as well. What are the Blood Druids doing? Within the splintered gargoyle factions are there any new gargoyle warlords that are rising up the ranks, you know because conflict breeds hero's both for the good guys and the bad. This line of thought leaves me wanting more, specifically more content on the enemies of mankind. I wanna see new equipment from the phoenix empire and the legions of dead that are being sent to crush the NGR's forces in France. I wanna see reports of fleets of Splugorthian Ark's intercepting Coalition forces crossing the Atlantic. I wanna see a pact between Emperor Zerstrun and the Gene Splicers to create armies of Super Gargoyles in exchange for test specimen. I wanna see the evil millennial tree corrupt the mind of an NGR General and drive him to burn down towns of innocent people. I wanna see the Blood Druids summon a True Demon Lord in Paris who will unite the western gargoyle tribes under his unholy banner. I wanna see the Tarnow Crystal fall into the hands of the Gargoyles.

I would also point you (and our esteemed writers) to the original Conversion Book and Rifts' Mercenaries. Particularly the paragraphs surrounding any use of the Johtan (sp) Giant race.

Just a heads-up, the conclusion of this is being delayed because I actually got my hands on a copy of Rifter #51, and decided I may as well do those too, so I'm taking time to read it a few times (also, it made me pick up Splicers, and I think you can see where this is going...). I found a few other things to say about the various hand guns anyway.

For Triax, you may want to check out Rifter 55 since it has the updated Triax O.C.C.s

If you picked up splicers, you're going to want to get Rifters 30 and 50 and the upcoming Rifter 59 too. The PDF Rifter 0 also has some great Splicers stuff too.

SAMASzero wrote:
I would also point you (and our esteemed writers) to the original Conversion Book and Rifts' Mercenaries. Particularly the paragraphs surrounding any use of the Johtan (sp) Giant race.

you mind giving me some page numbers? especially for Mercenaries? i don't remember any such notes, but i may have missed them.

Mercenaries under Robot Control. The jotun in power armor is from Europe.

DD The Shmey wrote:But of all the sections in the book, my favorite are the first few sections on the background of events since 104PA, the sacking of Wroclaw, the split in Gargoyle/Brodkil relations, the assassination of the president, the alliance with the New Navy, the Coalition sending 30,000 troops, Operation Sea Storm, and the splintering of the Gargoyle kingdom. You really get a feeling of everything coming together for the forces of mankind and progress moving forward on restoring earth.

Honestly I can say reading the entire book over again really makes me think even more about what the bad guy's are going to do. Atlantis isn't going to let this alliance continue, and I expect the Phoenix Empire to start moving in soon as well. What are the Blood Druids doing? Within the splintered gargoyle factions are there any new gargoyle warlords that are rising up the ranks, you know because conflict breeds hero's both for the good guys and the bad. This line of thought leaves me wanting more, specifically more content on the enemies of mankind. I wanna see new equipment from the phoenix empire and the legions of dead that are being sent to crush the NGR's forces in France. I wanna see reports of fleets of Splugorthian Ark's intercepting Coalition forces crossing the Atlantic. I wanna see a pact between Emperor Zerstrun and the Gene Splicers to create armies of Super Gargoyles in exchange for test specimen. I wanna see the evil millennial tree corrupt the mind of an NGR General and drive him to burn down towns of innocent people. I wanna see the Blood Druids summon a True Demon Lord in Paris who will unite the western gargoyle tribes under his unholy banner. I wanna see the Tarnow Crystal fall into the hands of the Gargoyles.

I sure hope that you guys at Palladium have something in the works to satisfy my appetite. Maybe this whole Demon wars thing will come into play on rifts earth somehow.

Honestly I think the ommission of details on the Monster Kingdoms is my only complaint for Triax 2.A page of general details would not of been out of place especially after the German Freddy Krueger information. Something like this.

Gargoyle Empire Population: 14,275,399
Population Breakdown:

Gargoylelites: 2,140,327
Gargoyles: 4,028,961
Gurgoyles: 4,732,489
Gargoyle Mages: 1,106,765
Gargoyle Lords: 326,740
Pledged Simvan Tribes: 509,145
Orcs: 140,598
Golblins: 891,407
Giants: 189,641
D-bees: 165,483
Lesser Demonic Beings: 43,843

This does not include slaves (well it might if you include the goblins, orcs, and any summoned lesser demons).

This is also one of the biggest misconceptions as I see it about the Gargoyle Empire. That it is just for Gargoyles and made up of gargoyles. After all it clearly says that roughly a third of the Simvan tribes in Europe back the Gargoyles and that other half support the Brodkil, with a few unallied tribes left over. Also someone has to build/repair the gargoyles tech. Why not enslaved humans or loyal d-bees?