Northern Gun What do you want to see...

Sureshot · Unread post by **Sureshot** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:57 pm

and not want to see.

For myself more world inforamtion on that area of the world. Less toys. Not because I don't like new tech just that we have imo enough of it. At the very least something different. Not another laser rifle clone with new art same stats and range. No reprints from other books. At the very least not unless it has to be included. I'm buying new material not reprints from something I already have in another Rifts book. Will the NG series also include the Mansantique Imperium (not sure if I got that right) or will it get it's own line of books. While I understand that on the surface NG has to bend over backwards to please the CS yet I would like to see them written has having their unique character. Just because they may agree with the Cs does not mena they need to be a osck pupper of the CS.

SAMASzero · Unread post by **SAMASzero** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:09 pm

For the most part, weapons are covered, though I wouldn't mind a few re-listings of their old stuff (Like Naruni Wave 2).

Stuff I wouldn't mind:

A knock-off of the Servo-Rig system And some super-heavy Plasma/Ion/P-beam Cannons built specifically for Borgs and Headhunters.

More NG vehicles: Hover Trucks, bikes, and maybe a few small and large aircraft

NG Tanks -- The Fall of New Kenora leaves a hole in the weapons market. NG has gotta see the opportunities in that.

Gun Rovers -- Maybe to compete with Naruni in the Drone Market. These would be heavier, like the old G.I. Joe PAC RAT toys, with heavier support guns than found on Naruni's drones.

Wellington Industries: In Mercenaries, they seemed to carve a nice niche for themselves with their grenade and missile launchers. How about a Heavy Missile Launcher than fires two or three Short-Ranged Missiles (and maybe needs a Borg or Servo-Rig to carry)?

abtex · Unread post by **abtex** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:41 pm

The book would do to start with.

- Personal Defense weapons - larger that pistols, smaller that rifles.
- Weapons laid out for a range of characters and race sizes - from small light weight to heavy ones. Increases and decreased ranges, with overall weight and payloads.

- Vehicles designed or layout for a range of body types [like above] smaller or just normal humans size up to heavy cyborgs/Power armor. Ground, water - rivers to swamp and aircraft. Not just the vehicle, but trailers, sidecars and other options to expand the use of them. One might be the ability to mount personal weapons so they can be used while driving, no reason to purchase ones to carry then a second set for light use on your transport as well.

- Black market knockoffs ever if they a side line that NG is marketing to get around the CS.

- Area info.

Shark_Force · Unread post by **Shark_Force** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:29 am

SAMASzero wrote:NG Tanks -- The Fall of New Kenora leaves a hole in the weapons market. NG has gotta see the opportunities in that.

canonically speaking, the hole it left happens to jam-packed with thousands or even millions of dead boys, SAMAS pilots, and other CS military types pointing all manner of weapons at anyone aiming to fill it.

and given that NG basically decided to get all buddy-buddy with the CS, it really wouldn't make an awful lot of sense for them to start making the same kind of stuff as iron heart armaments... you know, the stuff that made the CS decide they should go kill/kidnap/enslave the people responsible for making that stuff the first time?

DBX · Unread post by **DBX** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:01 am

IMO

would like to see NG independent from CS as much as possible. Didn't really see NG as pals of the CS. Therefore never expected them to get closer to the CS, especially after what the CS did to New Kenora. NG would go out of its way to distance themselves from the CS, fearing the CS may do to them what they did to New Kenora.

Hopefully we will start seeing the power block of NG,Lazlo,MI taking firm root after what the CS have done to Tolkeen. In the great CS vs debates of the past on these forums, that power block was deemed as the balance to CS power in North America, someone that could defeat the CS if the CS was just to go on a rampage. hence why the CS needed their 20 year plan...

TechnoGothic · Unread post by **TechnoGothic** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:27 am

I Want to see NG telling the CS to Pisss Off, and rightly so.

I want to see NG Cyborg Body Models ready to use.
NG-Cyberhumaniod : Cyber-Police Model
NG-Knockoff of triax Gold, Blue, Red. With slight differences (no scarry face plates, More of Helmet look).
NG-Shocktrooper styled Cyborgs for Military use.

I want to see Robots of course.

I see NG and MI being the place in NA for GitS/Appleseed Stories being able to be told easier than othe rplaces in NA. And it has a Place there too, since they are big providers of Technology to NA. Heck, from RMB, I thought NG/MI was were most people went to get quality Equipment, Cyborg Bodies/parts, and vehicles as well as weapons. Kinda wish the later books left NG/MI has the main place to get the High-tech for their mercs, unless they travel to other parts of the world of course, but in NA, RMB made me think NG/MI was Place to go for High Tech legally.

azazel1024 · Unread post by **azazel1024** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:28 pm

No more than 33% of the book dedicated to tech stuff. Honestly I'd like to see them get a bit in to NG borgs maybe, some new cybernetics/bionics. Maybe some now PA or robot vehicles. I'd like to see them get a bit more in to consumer vehicles (cars, trucks, motorcycles, civilian planes and hover vehicles). I'd also like to see them expand upon equipment. Radios, civie/mil spec backpacking gear, survival gear, computer hacking equipment, construction equipment, etc. Some new weapons and armor are rarely a terrible thing, but yeah, I just don't know that there needs to be a huge amount of that.

I'd like at least 1/2 the book to talk about the kingdom itself, describe some of the cities even if not in super, super depth of stating out each one with a million and one "shops". More than just fluff descriptions though. A few of the notable personalities. Describe the gov't, military and politics of the kingdom some. Talk about how the company and the kingdom integrate and dovetail. Etc.

Oh, and maybe actually have the book see the light of day this year.

Colt47 · Unread post by **Colt47** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:36 pm

azazel1024 wrote:No more than 33% of the book dedicated to tech stuff. Honestly I'd like to see them get a bit in to NG borgs maybe, some new cybernetics/bionics. Maybe some now PA or robot vehicles. I'd like to see them get a bit more in to consumer vehicles (cars, trucks, motorcycles, civilian planes and hover vehicles). I'd also like to see them expand upon equipment. Radios, civie/mil spec backpacking gear, survival gear, computer hacking equipment, construction equipment, etc. Some new weapons and armor are rarely a terrible thing, but yeah, I just don't know that there needs to be a huge amount of that.

I'd like at least 1/2 the book to talk about the kingdom itself, describe some of the cities even if not in super, super depth of stating out each one with a million and one "shops". More than just fluff descriptions though. A few of the notable personalities. Describe the gov't, military and politics of the kingdom some. Talk about how the company and the kingdom integrate and dovetail. Etc.

Oh, and maybe actually have the book see the light of day this year.

Seconding the notion of more detailed commercial vehicles. So far the only thing really well laid out and given some sort of personality are hovercycles. I'd like to see some of the mainstream hover vehicle models and give them some personality. Also, a fleshed out Northern Gun? I'm all in!

I like Northern Gun and MI far more than Wilk's.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:44 pm

Considering it is apparently going to be a two book set I'd like to see something similar to what they did with Merctown and Merc Ops.

First book pretty much all world info and information as well as maps of the main cities of both NG and MI along with bits of info about notable people and places in said cities.

Second book is the tech book. Robots of all colours, civilian vehicles galour, and more "traditional" affordable weapons as I see the stuff we see in Mercs, Merc Ops and other books as the high end NG/WI stuff for sale.

Sureshot · Unread post by **Sureshot** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:51 pm

jaymz wrote:Considering it is apparently going to be a two book set I'd like to see something similar to what they did with Merctown and Merc Ops.

First book pretty much all world info and information as well as maps of the main cities of both NG and MI along with bits of info about notable people and places in said cities.

Second book is the tech book. Robots of all colours, civilian vehicles galour, and more "traditional" affordable weapons as I see the stuff we see in Mercs, Merc Ops and other books as the high end NG/WI stuff for sale.

Seconded.

I would also like to see NG make less bulky heavy weaposn. Yes I know it's been their trademark for years yet the lost a lot of market share to other competitors who make similar yet lighter, sleeker weapons.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:37 pm

Sureshot wrote:
jaymz wrote:Considering it is apparently going to be a two book set I'd like to see something similar to what they did with Merctown and Merc Ops.

First book pretty much all world info and information as well as maps of the main cities of both NG and MI along with bits of info about notable people and places in said cities.

Second book is the tech book. Robots of all colours, civilian vehicles galour, and more "traditional" affordable weapons as I see the stuff we see in Mercs, Merc Ops and other books as the high end NG/WI stuff for sale.

Seconded.

I would also like to see NG make less bulky heavy weaposn. Yes I know it's been their trademark for years yet the lost a lot of market share to other competitors who make similar yet lighter, sleeker weapons.

Naruni weapons come across as any but but sleek.... :lol:

TechnoGothic · Unread post by **TechnoGothic** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:44 pm

I want to see cyborgs like this :
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/ ... Police.jpg

cchopps · Unread post by **cchopps** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:59 pm

I'd like to see:

[*]Corporate Intrigue and back story about the major weapon's manufacturers. Not just in North America but relations and intel with the companies around the globe which at this point in a post-Merctown/Naruni 2nd Wave/Shifters for hire world should be not difficult for companies like Northern Gun and Wilks.

[*]A reason to use a Robot Vehicle over Power Armor.

[*]Updated rules to air combat that make sense. The vague references to cruising speed (based on the non-applicable ground vehicle rules) and dog tailing with nothing about fuel consumption or acceleration need to go. How would a hovercraft vs. flying power armor vs. jet actually play out?

[*]How does the speed of missile (or mini-missile) affect an opponent's ability to dodge it or shoot it before getting hit? Using the "Target is Moving" modifier in RUE we are looking at a -10 to hit a High Explosive mm traveling at 500mph and a -24 to hit a Plasma traveling at 1,200 mph. Does using high-tech sensors and having your own missiles or turret/defense weapon negate those penalties?

[*]Actually differences between Laser, Ion, Plasma, Particle Beam, and Rail besides range/damage that could make one type better in a specific situation.

[*]M.D.C. value of weapons.

C. Chopps

azazel1024 · Unread post by **azazel1024** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:12 pm

Personally for your second to last point cchopps, I like to play it a bit like this (I have never actually developed house rules for this, and it isn't hard science, but my sci fi looks like this).

Lasers, pretty much just damage, pretty quiet, yes you can see the beam (A nice high powered laser, around 1w, you can see EASILY at night, in the daylight lasers in the multimegawatt range which would correspond to MD lasers would also be easily visible). They basically just do the damage as mentioned, but effectively no recoil, so bursts and rapid fire have zero penalties to them, unlike most weapons.

Ion weapons, have some recoil, so burst/rapid fire penalties. However, because of their nature they have a chance to disable high tech systems. The ionization can pop circuit breakers, overload capacitor, etc, etc. I'd like to see some minor to moderate chance of knocking out electronic systems or subsystems in armor, PA, robots, etc that they hit. Really big vehicles only the subsystem nearest the hit has a chance of temp failure. Say something in the neighborhood of % chance of going off line for 1d4 actions equal to the MD dealth by the ion gun (so you roll 12MD, a 12% chance of going off line from that hit for 1d4 melee actions).

Plasma weapons have a big recoil, but also do minor damage around the point of impact from the huge amounts of thermal energy released as well as the diffuse nature of the plasma beam/packet. Kind of like hurling a conentrated incendiary/HE round all rolled in to one. Maybe small characters there is a chance of knock down/knock back and 1/10th damage to everything within a blast radius equal to the damage dealt divided by 2. So 40MD and 4MD is dealt to everything in a 20ft radius because of heat/blast.

Particle beam weapons also have a chance of overloading systems like ion weapons, but add in the plasma stuff above because of basically reflected particle shower instead of actual heat.

Rail guns, increased chance to hit with bursts because of the huge number of projectiles heading down range and of course damage to things not effected by energy weapons.

SAMASzero · Unread post by **SAMASzero** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:38 pm

Shark_Force wrote:
SAMASzero wrote:NG Tanks -- The Fall of New Kenora leaves a hole in the weapons market. NG has gotta see the opportunities in that.

canonically speaking, the hole it left happens to jam-packed with thousands or even millions of dead boys, SAMAS pilots, and other CS military types pointing all manner of weapons at anyone aiming to fill it.

and given that NG basically decided to get all buddy-buddy with the CS, it really wouldn't make an awful lot of sense for them to start making the same kind of stuff as iron heart armaments... you know, the stuff that made the CS decide they should go kill/kidnap/enslave the people responsible for making that stuff the first time?

What pissed the CS about Iron Heart Armaments wasn't the tanks, it was big stuff like the Air Castle and Sea King. If the CS were mad about the tanks, then they would've been all over Northern Gun in the first place for the Hunter Mobile Gun, Sky King, and Multi-Bot as it was.

azazel1024 · Unread post by **azazel1024** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:19 pm

I'd love to see New Kenora resurrected in some way. Maybe even by NG? They'd have to stay away from some of the bigger stuff, but things like the Grey Falcon, missile patrol boat and a few others should probably be good.

Sureshot · Unread post by **Sureshot** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:49 pm

azazel1024 wrote:I'd love to see New Kenora resurrected in some way. Maybe even by NG? They'd have to stay away from some of the bigger stuff, but things like the Grey Falcon, missile patrol boat and a few others should probably be good.

Or they could go the Free Quebec route which was to move everything to Old Bones and secretly control it. As much as I liek the CS they cant be everywhere everytime.

TechnoGothic · Unread post by **TechnoGothic** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:25 am

cchopps wrote:I'd like to see:

[*]Corporate Intrigue and back story about the major weapon's manufacturers. Not just in North America but relations and intel with the companies around the globe which at this point in a post-Merctown/Naruni 2nd Wave/Shifters for hire world should be not difficult for companies like Northern Gun and Wilks.
C. Chopps

THIS. Corporate Espionage Between Companies in general.

Also how Local Police Forces fight Cyber-crime, and they attempt to stop Corporate Espionage, or just Espionage in general in the world of Rifts.

I also want to see NG having some Alien Technologies they have reversed engineered not available to Triax or Chi-Town. Like limited Anti-gravity devices to Point-Barrier Riot Shields which protect a Forcefield in in a circle-shield-like formation. Which could have been their result in trying to copy naurani force fields but instead coming up with a Force-Shield...

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:47 am

Artillery. Rockets, mortars and large caliber guns, and tracked self propelled artillery. Specialized interceptor missiles and radar directed AA guns to shoot down missiles and aircraft would be good also. Good electronic warfare and countermeasures equipment and rules. Tanks in the proper scale and profile (not 25 plus feet tall). Some hover or rotary wing gunships and transports.

But most of all, maps, information on populations and political workings.

llywelyn · Unread post by **llywelyn** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:23 pm

Myself:

A fleshed out and interesting description (some posters above have good ideas, I think) that neither ties the place firmly to the CS yoke OR breaks free in a moment of glory, but shows the players the different wheels and gears that are turning and the effects of adding grease or monkey wrenches.

The CS intelligence officers and diplomatic attaches with some PC-exploitable weaknesses.

Probably too geeky, but still interesting to me:
* Treatment of inflation from insane players trying to cash in 50 billion in credits.
* Long-range military escorts & their mining operations: there's no uranium anywhere near these countries and everything's nuke powered. We should really see their resource bases fleshed out more thoroughly.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:27 pm

llywelyn wrote:* Long-range military escorts & their mining operations: there's no uranium anywhere near these countries and everything's nuke powered. We should really see their resource bases fleshed out more thoroughly.

I think in many ways this may be an example of a very little goes a very long way in regards to needing uranium for the nuclear power supplies.

They may have already gotten all they think they may need for quite some time. Hard to say.

Shark_Force · Unread post by **Shark_Force** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:40 pm

jaymz wrote:
llywelyn wrote:* Long-range military escorts & their mining operations: there's no uranium anywhere near these countries and everything's nuke powered. We should really see their resource bases fleshed out more thoroughly.

I think in many ways this may be an example of a very little goes a very long way in regards to needing uranium for the nuclear power supplies.

They may have already gotten all they think they may need for quite some time. Hard to say.

or, more likely, kevin just never bothered thinking about where they were getting all their uranium.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:46 pm

Shark_Force wrote:
jaymz wrote:
llywelyn wrote:* Long-range military escorts & their mining operations: there's no uranium anywhere near these countries and everything's nuke powered. We should really see their resource bases fleshed out more thoroughly.

I think in many ways this may be an example of a very little goes a very long way in regards to needing uranium for the nuclear power supplies.

They may have already gotten all they think they may need for quite some time. Hard to say.

or, more likely, kevin just never bothered thinking about where they were getting all their uranium.

I think that goes without saying but better to make it work than not

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:21 pm

lol Who even knows what kind of nuclear fuel Rifts uses. It could be anything, even something like Helium-3 for all we know.

SAMASzero · Unread post by **SAMASzero** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:30 pm

So that's why the weapon ranges are so short! Minovsky Particle interference!:D

azazel1024 · Unread post by **azazel1024** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:53 pm

Jerell wrote:lol Who even knows what kind of nuclear fuel Rifts uses. It could be anything, even something like Helium-3 for all we know.

Actually we do know, something fissionable. There are no books that SPECIFICALLY say that they are fission based power supplies, but every single bit of flavor text or description points that out.

Fusion is a completely seperately mentioned power supply in more advanced than Rifts Earth settings as well as various persistant radiation leaks/hazards in a few adventures listed in source books and world books points towards fissionables.

So it is either thorium or uranium (or plutonium), none of which are common to areas within the kingoms of humans in North America on Rifts Earth.

At any rate, I would like to see an expansion on hard core military tech.

Some decent artillery rules and some introduction of NG and CS artillery. Other than the authors not feeling like including it there has been no decent explination as to why artillery is not common. Arty shells are going to be cheaper than missiles, even guided ones will be. Despite arching they are going to be harder to hit and can be "armored" to a certain degree, a lot more so than missiles can be. So even though they will be "more visible" because of being above the horizon, making them eligible to be hit and seen, they are going to be moving faster (in general) than a missile, a smaller target and can be designed to be harder to destroy if hit than a missile. All of which are pluses.

Armorlord · Unread post by **Armorlord** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:03 pm

Between Northern Gun and Black Market, I'd like to see more political and city detail on major places that have been left fuzzy since the beginning. After that we just need Lazlo covered and we'll finally have decent detail on all the major powers in the region.

Another thing I'd like to see in all of those are good asides regarding the state of places at different points in the timeline, so it is easier to integrate into games that are behind the 'current' date.

More toys can be nice when handled well, as can additional OCCs, and you know they'll be there, so no use struggling.

kogwar · Unread post by **kogwar** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:08 am

More area info maybe a o.c.c. if it is a good one some npcs and definatley a good sp mdc weapon

Sureshot · Unread post by **Sureshot** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:25 am

Winterhawk wrote:What I want to see - The book printed

What I don't want to see - That the book is done and it is the best book even, at the printers soon....A month later - Never fear someone somewhere had a cold, but the book is done at the printers soon for sure.....A month later - The book is the best thing ever, I am almost finished editing, end of the month release.....Repeat the above for a year then ... The book has been cancelled.

This so very much this. If this happens with this book then they really have not learned their mistake with Lemuria.

TechnoGothic · Unread post by **TechnoGothic** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:01 am

I want to see a Grand Fortress Mega-city, with automated GIANT Railgun Robots as big as 20+ stories at least, which walk on giant spider-like legs if they need to move themselves to defend the city. These guns need to be so huge and so powerful, that they are Worthy of the name "Northern Guns".

Akashic Soldier · Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:23 am

Scantly clad women and power armor.

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:23 am

SAMASzero wrote:So that's why the weapon ranges are so short! Minovsky Particle interference!:D

Exactly. Explains the lack of actual long range weapon duals too.

azazel1024 · Unread post by **azazel1024** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:44 am

Meh, in a lot of ways I want to see MI as a completely seperate book. Otherwise I just can't imagine they can do a decent job describing NG and throwing in equipment and tech stuff. I would also like to see them focus on non-weapon, non-robot vehicle, non-PA stuff. I'd like to see some of that, but I feel like "adventuring gear" and "tech equipment" generally gets the shaft compared to the number of laser rifles and body armor we have between all of the books. Some new cybernetics would be nice as well.

Armorlord · Unread post by **Armorlord** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:00 pm

Jerell wrote:
SAMASzero wrote:So that's why the weapon ranges are so short! Minovsky Particle interference!:D

Exactly. Explains the lack of actual long range weapon duals too.

As far as serious artillery use, it's a concept that more or less had to be reinvented, or borrowed from the NGR or Sovetski, as far as the Coalition goes. They seem to be beginning to get the hang of it though. Missile volleys are still deadlier against moving targets, however.
Everything else is MD-threshold drop-off distance. Once it goes far enough to drop below that high-energy state, they run head first into the standard physics model, and experience extreme performance drop off.

Mech-Viper Prime · Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:37 pm

I would like to see everyday equipment and vehicles.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:00 pm

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:I would like to see everyday equipment and vehicles.

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:09 pm

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:I would like to see everyday equipment and vehicles.

Agreed. More motor cycles, cars, construction, police, fire and hover vehicles and the like would be good to see.

azazel1024 wrote: ... I feel like "adventuring gear" and "tech equipment" generally gets the shaft compared to the number of laser rifles and body armor we have between all of the books. Some new cybernetics would be nice as well.

popscythe · Unread post by **popscythe** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:13 am

Gear. Robots. Power Armor.

TechnoGothic · Unread post by **TechnoGothic** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:32 am

Company Information
Locations and Maps
Espionage Happenings
Normal Gear and Equipment
Common SD/SDC weapons still being made by them
New or Expanded PA/RV products for sale
Old and New Robots
New OCCs ... The Salesman/Merchant ... Product Transportation Severice ... Research & Development

Kagashi · Unread post by **Kagashi** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:44 am

Id like to see:

-Less toys (we already have a 109 PA update with NG equipment in the Merc Ops books)
--Toys I wouldnt mind seeing: Less weapons, power armor and bots; more conventional vehicles like tanks, helos, jets...the stuff Iron Heart used to make but no longer does.
-- I do not want to see copy and paste from previous books in this books. thats what the Game Masters Guide is for. Do NOT make be buy the same printed material again. The only exception to this would be the accidentally edited out Sky King from RUE. The only canon stats we have are the watered down version in the GMG. Otherwise we have to break out the RMB.

-More setting: I want more on the area, the armed forces (we only have a very small section that describes their army, and its all fighting forces, no support elements what-so-ever), the government, why are they not part of the CS?, why are they allies with the CS?, what the CS sees them better as allies and does not forcibly take them over (especially since they pretty much arm most non-CS affiliated merc armies in North America)?
-What are NG's plans? Are they just out to make a buck, or is there something bigger going on? Does NG have influence outside North America?
-Include the Manistique Imperium in everything above.

Kagashi · Unread post by **Kagashi** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:47 am

TechnoGothic wrote:I want to see a Grand Fortress Mega-city, with automated GIANT Railgun Robots as big as 20+ stories at least, which walk on giant spider-like legs if they need to move themselves to defend the city. These guns need to be so huge and so powerful, that they are Worthy of the name "Northern Guns".

This...is...epic. :ok: