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I'm just wondering cuz I've been in a campaign were it's happened before.

As long as the GM isn't having his PC hog up all the action.

The Beast wrote:As long as the GM isn't having his PC hog up all the action.

What he said.

The Beast wrote:As long as the GM isn't having his PC hog up all the action.

What if he's giving his PC EXP?

SamBell wrote:

The Beast wrote:As long as the GM isn't having his PC hog up all the action.

What if he's giving his PC EXP?

I don't think it's all that unusual for NPCs in the party to be awarded experience points.

Is this NPC ruining the game for everyone else? If not, then I wouldn't worry about it.

--flatline

While I dislike the practice, it tends to lead to Marysueism in my experience and deprotagonizes the actual player characters, a skilled GM who actively avoids the problems associated with it can play a character in his own game. I have 42 named NPCs in my current game, about half a dozen of whom are recurring characters. I'm not sure that I could keep all of them straight if I were focused on my own player character.

We had a GM keep trying to insert some dog boy into the party. We'd kill it and then he'd bring it back. I think that's the only time we ever had this type of thing happen in a negative fashion.

--flatline

All NPCs are technically the GM's characters...

If you don't like the way your GM handles things, you can always volunteer to GM

Athos wrote:All NPCs are technically the GM's characters...

What he said.

Now, if you mean an active member of the adventuring party, it's probably best if he sticks to a support or command role, and let the players have the lion's share of the action. Keep in mind that Binder of Shame story where the GM had an NPC he tried to regulate the player characters as sidekicks to? Yeah, you want to avoid that. In fact, it should be the other way around.

It comes down to how the character is used. Traveling merchants, guides, and other similarly useful NPCs can make decent travel buddies.

I think in theory it's fine. The only time I did it the NPC was actually a sunaj assassin. So needless to say the PCs were not happy. But the players had fun.

Nop!e . . . It's only wrong if the GM shows favortism.

In my experience GMPC's have been used for either extra muscle, but doesn't really flex it until the rest of the group is in trouble. They only contribute a good idea after the team goes through a few bad ideas.

Also my group tends to have rotating GM's . . . so for 6 months my character may be a PC, then I come GM I'm not about to have my PC leave the group . . . although he will become much more soft spoken.

One of the most fond NPCs our group even adventured with was a GM NPC. I always liked it as a way to nudge the story along when the PCs get stuck, and as way for the GM to have a "line of communication" with the players. Provided of course, the above cautions are taken into consideration. That being said, in an emergency circumstance you never know what happens...we ended up losing our guy simply because we panicked and forgot to grab him before porting out! Lol.

SamBell wrote:I'm just wondering cuz I've been in a campaign were it's happened before.

What I meant by this is he brings in his own personal character that he plays when he doesn't GM because we rotate gm's

Speaking as a GM, I would never do this to a group - I already get to play everyone other than then Player Characters, so why the need to introduce a personal NPC like that?

The emphasis should be on the players and their characters.

Dr Megaverse wrote:One of the most fond NPCs our group even adventured with was a GM NPC. I always liked it as a way to nudge the story along when the PCs get stuck, and as way for the GM to have a "line of communication" with the players. Provided of course, the above cautions are taken into consideration. That being said, in an emergency circumstance you never know what happens...we ended up losing our guy simply because we panicked and forgot to grab him before porting out! Lol.

That sounds just like my old Dungeons and Dragons 3rd ed fighter/cleric who was trying to become a paladin and failing miserably all the way. Honestly, as long as the game isn't done by the seat of someones pants and there was some actual preparation, the game should work out fine.

SamBell wrote:

SamBell wrote:I'm just wondering cuz I've been in a campaign were it's happened before.

What I meant by this is he brings in his own personal character that he plays when he doesn't GM because we rotate gm's

If you rotate GMs, then doesn't every GM have his character, or just this one?

SamBell wrote:

SamBell wrote:I'm just wondering cuz I've been in a campaign were it's happened before.

What I meant by this is he brings in his own personal character that he plays when he doesn't GM because we rotate gm's

Uh, shouldn't he have a PC if he's not GMing?

I'm going to say no it is not okay.
It probably could be okay but my only experience with that sort of situation wasn't.
The GM was a munchkin who wanted to be a player more than a GM, he was just GMing so he could steer the story into giving his character opportunities for power.
I think the only reason he wasn't playing alone, without us was he wanted people to witness his awesomeness.

Giant2005 wrote:I'm going to say no it is not okay.
It probably could be okay but my only experience with that sort of situation wasn't.
The GM was a munchkin who wanted to be a player more than a GM, he was just GMing so he could steer the story into giving his character opportunities for power.
I think the only reason he wasn't playing alone, without us was he wanted people to witness his awesomeness.

This.

It's my experience that game masters who make their PC are just Mary Sueing.

How on earth would that be mary sueing as you put it, if they are rotating GMs as he said. If that is indeed the case, all the GMs would have PCs and it would seem like they would all be NPC'd when their player has a turn at GMing. How would this one be any different than the rest?

Once again, if you don't like the way someone GM's, you should probably step up and volunteer yourself as GM. I personally get sick of whiney players that want to backseat GM, but never have the balls to be the actual GM.

SamBell wrote:

SamBell wrote:I'm just wondering cuz I've been in a campaign were it's happened before.

What I meant by this is he brings in his own personal character that he plays when he doesn't GM because we rotate gm's

If you're rotating GMs, then each player's character would be the GM's PC when that player is the GM...unless they mysteriously disappear from the party when that player is GMing.

I think having the GM's character remain part of the party is better for the continuity of the campaign than having it disappear whenever he's the GM.

When I was playing, we had rotating GMs, but each GM was running a different campaign, so this never became an issue.

--flatline

SamBell wrote:

SamBell wrote:I'm just wondering cuz I've been in a campaign were it's happened before.

What I meant by this is he brings in his own personal character that he plays when he doesn't GM because we rotate gm's

How was the PC treated differently from the other PC's? If at all?

If he just followed the other PC's and provided firepower when the party is attacked, I've seen plenty of players play that way and get XP.

Do you think the GM will never allow anything that could TPK (total party kill) the party, while his PC is in it?

Well here's the hard question - what if any of your other GM's wouldn't allow a TPK even when they don't have a PC of their own in the party?

Athos wrote:How on earth would that be mary sueing as you put it, if they are rotating GMs as he said. If that is indeed the case, all the GMs would have PCs and it would seem like they would all be NPC'd when their player has a turn at GMing. How would this one be any different than the rest?

Once again, if you don't like the way someone GM's, you should probably step up and volunteer yourself as GM. I personally get sick of whiney players that want to backseat GM, but never have the balls to be the actual GM.

I do run a game.

In a rotating GM situation, their established character would need to be an NPC when it's their turn to run. They should NOT award themselves XP. EVER. To keep the character advancing with the rest of the party, maybe give them XP = to the lowest amount awarded to another character or even have a separate person track the NPC's XP, for example.

Grell wrote:In a rotating GM situation, their established character would need to be an NPC when it's their turn to run. They should NOT award themselves XP. EVER. To keep the character advancing with the rest of the party, maybe give them XP = to the lowest amount awarded to another character or even have a separate person track the NPC's XP, for example.

If all characters spend an equal amount of time as an NPC, then the group should decide what the policy is for assigning XP when the character is an NPC. My personal preference would be to award zero XP to NPCs just to avoid any potential abuse. Once you get past level 3, you'll raise level slowly enough that missing XP every so often won't make a difference.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

Grell wrote:In a rotating GM situation, their established character would need to be an NPC when it's their turn to run. They should NOT award themselves XP. EVER. To keep the character advancing with the rest of the party, maybe give them XP = to the lowest amount awarded to another character or even have a separate person track the NPC's XP, for example.

If all characters spend an equal amount of time as an NPC, then the group should decide what the policy is for assigning XP when the character is an NPC. My personal preference would be to award zero XP to NPCs just to avoid any potential abuse. Once you get past level 3, you'll raise level slowly enough that missing XP every so often won't make a difference.

--flatline

That depends how strict they are on the xp reward tables in the books. It might turn out that one GM awards a lot more xp than the others, if that were the case that GM's character would start falling behind the curve pretty quickly.
You might even end up with situations where the GMs are intentionally giving out as little xp as possible to ensure their characters don't fall behind.

I successfully used an NPC avatar in a Robotech campaign as a means of GMing 'from within the game' rather than as the disembodied voice form on high, although that may be irrelevant to the OP, since the NPC never played in another person's game.

Still, if a GM doesn't use the NPC to dominate the action, having a fully fleshed PC do a cameo turn as a walk-on (or doing a 'Hitchcock') can be fun for everybody concerned.

DhAkael wrote:

The Beast wrote:As long as the GM isn't having his PC hog up all the action.

What he said.

Yup.

What I meant is he cheats to give his guy EXP. Just so he could be on Par.

SamBell wrote:What I meant is he cheats to give his guy EXP. Just so he could be on Par.

If the goal is be on par, I wouldn't consider it cheating. It sounds both fair and reasonable.

Giant2005 wrote:

SamBell wrote:What I meant is he cheats to give his guy EXP. Just so he could be on Par.

If the goal is be on par, I wouldn't consider it cheating. It sounds both fair and reasonable.

I respectfully disagree. He's a GM not a PC.

SamBell wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:

SamBell wrote:What I meant is he cheats to give his guy EXP. Just so he could be on Par.

If the goal is be on par, I wouldn't consider it cheating. It sounds both fair and reasonable.

I respectfully disagree. He's a GM not a PC.

If you have a GM rotation policy in place, I think it is more fair to say that he is both.
Just try to keep things balanced, learn from him and give yourself the similar boosts when you GM. As long as things are balanced, there shouldn't be an issue.

Of course if he really just wants to give his player an advantage over yours, if you give yourself the same boosts he is likely to esculate and give himself even higher boosts.

It's a shame that there are so few roleplayers to begin with . . . cause if you're afraid that your GM would cheat for his PC then you're playing in the wrong group! I have killed my PC while I was the GM [Fortunetly it was D&D with a revolving door policy on death] I couldn't imagine any of my freinds trying to overly award their character when it was their turn to GM. . . not even Rojo.

SamBell wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:

SamBell wrote:What I meant is he cheats to give his guy EXP. Just so he could be on Par.

If the goal is be on par, I wouldn't consider it cheating. It sounds both fair and reasonable.

I respectfully disagree. He's a GM not a PC.

Which means the characters he's running operate under just about any rules he wants, so if he's running a 'well this NPC needs to keep up with the PC group' rule then the NPC keeps up, because level advancement rules don't really apply to NPC. GM wants to say the NPC is really a level 20 Dragon Techno-Wizard well it is, that's just how it works. As long as he's running things without slanting them so far in favor of the NPC that it's over-shadowing the PC group and it's just keeping up so it's not an anchor there isn't anything wrong going on.

SamBell wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:

SamBell wrote:What I meant is he cheats to give his guy EXP. Just so he could be on Par.

If the goal is be on par, I wouldn't consider it cheating. It sounds both fair and reasonable.

I respectfully disagree. He's a GM not a PC.

You'll have to provide more details.

As long as you are careful you should be fine I had a bad experience when I played a game called dark herasy me and a bud would switch out when I played i had my chari go in and through awesome luck/risk taking hid power lv eclipsed the group and when I gmed I used him as group leader in the end from luck and how I gmed he eclipsed the group I learned to tone it down when having a npc that is a old pc I can be done but it requires alot of gm maturity to do.

A GM-PC is just an NPC who happens to be more involved than most NPCs.
Should GM-PCs get EXP ? YES. If they use a skill, Exp, If they help defeat a meance Exp, If they come up with a cleaver idea the group did not Exp, and so on.

As I GM in most games with most groups. I do treat my NPCs as PCs. They get EXP for doing things, for helping, etc... They are still Characters aren't they ? All characters should get Exp when they do stuff.

I had an NPC Operator who spent ALOT of the groups money on Spare NG-SAMSON PAs. The group ***** and moaned at the operator (and me) for "Wasting their Credits". Well it turned out that the Operator going out and buying those Samason PAs was a great idea, because the group picked a fight that ended up geting their older Samson PAs trashed. I awarded the Operator NPC extra EXP for thinking ahead and cleaver idea which helded the group out. As a GM, I had the Operator buy the suits, cause they had ALOT of spare credits, and he did not want to sit around repairing the gear all the time without a break for the millionth time. Just turned out, the group would need those new samsons sooner than later. Later on the Operator bought the group a Triax Predator PA. Again the group ***** and moaned he went and spent money. Again the group found out that Predator PA was very useful to the group, and one of the PCs even switched over to the Predator full time.

SamBell wrote:What I meant is he cheats to give his guy EXP. Just so he could be on Par.

Obviously, cheating is wrong. Sounds like someone needs to have their GM priveleges revoked.

Grell wrote:

SamBell wrote:What I meant is he cheats to give his guy EXP. Just so he could be on Par.

Obviously, cheating is wrong. Sounds like someone needs to have their GM priveleges revoked.

IT IS NOT CHEATING. Geeze.

All Characters are suppose to get EXP, even NPCs. That is how an NPC goes up in levels as the games go on. Just like normal Player Characters do.

Would you prefer GM to just hand-wave their NPCs levels whenever they wish to ?

SamBell wrote:What I meant is he cheats to give his guy EXP. Just so he could be on Par.

ALL Characters get EXP Sambell. Player Characters and Non Player Characters alike.
How do you think you run into NPCs that are greater than 1st level ever get there. They recieved EXP.

If the NPC is a member in your Group, then it makes sense the NPC gets EXP also, so they can rise in levels like you do.

I used my PCs as NPCs all the time , some are higher levels then the PCs but it helps keeping them under control and I don't have problems like other GMs.

TechnoGothic wrote:

Grell wrote:

SamBell wrote:What I meant is he cheats to give his guy EXP. Just so he could be on Par.

Obviously, cheating is wrong. Sounds like someone needs to have their GM priveleges revoked.

IT IS NOT CHEATING. Geeze.

All Characters are suppose to get EXP, even NPCs. That is how an NPC goes up in levels as the games go on. Just like normal Player Characters do.

Would you prefer GM to just hand-wave their NPCs levels whenever they wish to ?

The way he is doing it IS cheating. He gives his waaay to much EXP. And btw npc's when you make the generally have a leveling thing.

SamBell wrote:

TechnoGothic wrote:

Grell wrote:

SamBell wrote:What I meant is he cheats to give his guy EXP. Just so he could be on Par.

Obviously, cheating is wrong. Sounds like someone needs to have their GM priveleges revoked.

IT IS NOT CHEATING. Geeze.

All Characters are suppose to get EXP, even NPCs. That is how an NPC goes up in levels as the games go on. Just like normal Player Characters do.

Would you prefer GM to just hand-wave their NPCs levels whenever they wish to ?

The way he is doing it IS cheating. He gives his waaay to much EXP. And btw npc's when you make the generally have a leveling thing.

Then you need to address the problem with the GM and the other players

TechnoGothic wrote:

Grell wrote:

SamBell wrote:What I meant is he cheats to give his guy EXP. Just so he could be on Par.

Obviously, cheating is wrong. Sounds like someone needs to have their GM priveleges revoked.

IT IS NOT CHEATING. Geeze.

All Characters are suppose to get EXP, even NPCs. That is how an NPC goes up in levels as the games go on. Just like normal Player Characters do.

Would you prefer GM to just hand-wave their NPCs levels whenever they wish to ?

GM's should just assign the level they need the NPC to be at in order to deal with the party (for good or ill). It's their responsibility not to assign a level so high that it is unbeatable or that the helpful NPC outshines the rest of the group. In this situation with rotating GM's, whoever's character has to be NPC'd should have a static number assigned (points for participation, if you will); preferably based upon how well the party performs for that session.

Grell wrote:GM's should just assign the level they need the NPC to be at in order to deal with the party (for good or ill). It's their responsibility not to assign a level so high that it is unbeatable

Last week I had Splynncryth release RASMA because my players had the GAUL to actually look like they might, almost, kind of be winning. Over 556,000 innocent civilians were killed and devoured. Luckily my PC's were able to come up with a way to stop it by using ingenuity. (God knows I didn't give them an inch of leverage) and I would have happily murdered them if they carelessly ran into Melee Combat with the hulking monster.

Does that make me a bad GM or them good players because they still won?

Isn't that the best kind of question.

If anyone is interested how it would be possible THIS is just one of the ways they came up with. Enjoy.

Did all of you have fun and was it memorable?

That is a better question.

Grell wrote:That is a better question.

Read the post.

It was without a doubt one of the most amazing games I have ever been apart of. I was so proud of them.

Akashic Soldier wrote:Isn't that the best kind of question.

Seems you've answered your own question.

Akashic Soldier wrote:

Grell wrote:That is a better question.

Read the post.

It was without a doubt one of the most amazing games I have ever been apart of. I was so proud of them.

Hold off that pride until they come back with helicopters so they can air lift Rasma to their enemies and drop him off and re-awaken him.