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So for an up coming game, I decided to make a Danzi, I didn't know much about them except they were tribal and nomadic when I chose the race, and then I decided to make him a Danzi Barbarian Warrior, completely within reason to think tribal nomads would have barbarian types.

First and foremost, I think a Danzi with the running skill, is insanely powerful. With a good roll on your 5d6+6 for speed, and an average roll on the 4d4 for the running skill, I managed a speed attribute of 43. This puts me at the "just about" 30mph class (Speed attribute of 44 is 30mph according to table).

Danzi racial states I can run 2x my speed attribute for 1/4 of my PE, through good rolls and physical skills I have a PE of 32. 32/4=8. For 8 minutes I can run at 60 miles per hour. The even more impressive thing is that you can run HALF of your speed, for your PE in hours. So I can run at 15 miles and hour for 32 hours. A day and a half almost of moving 15 miles an hour. Forget having a horse, too damn temperamental anyhow.

Now mix that with innate magic, and me choosing I wanted minor psionics (I mean really, who HONESTLY rolls on the table... you either want psionics or you don't) and I only wanted two powers for the class build I was doing so I only needed to be a minor.

Now slap a magic resistance on them, give them two giant two-handed weapons which they can wield one handed from the barbarian OCC and give them a reason to not be with the Danzi and you have a wandering warrior who can travel from city to city in half the time.

Smiling_Bandit wrote:My favorite one in recent memory is the Jeridu from one of the Chaos Lands books. Six armed chap that has WP Paired three times. Kit them out with some nice knives and you'll pretty easily hold your own against most men-at-arms.

Though with your Danzi I'd suggest some of those speed doubling boots. That'll tip you up to 120 MPH during your sprint, which I think would break Palladium land speed records.

Smiling_Bandit - Totally going to take a closer look at Danzi in the coming days

If the character was smarter he could convince people he was a god of speed!

Display-Name-Alpha wrote:and me choosing I wanted minor psionics (I mean really, who HONESTLY rolls on the table... you either want psionics or you don't).

People who's GMs will only let you have minor or major psionics if you roll on the table, mostly in front of them.

Smiling_Bandit wrote:My favorite one in recent memory is the Jeridu from one of the Chaos Lands books. Six armed chap that has WP Paired three times. Kit them out with some nice knives and you'll pretty easily hold your own against most men-at-arms.

Rift a Jeridu to Rifts Earth, New West, then choose the Gunslinger OCC....

EmperorDoggie wrote:I just recently got the Eastern Territory book and read these guys. Your right, really powerful BUT, so a long history of opression and genocide, you have to playing the whole "i'm oppressed" thing. Really tiring for your party to listen to your historical woes no matter how much you smash.

Umm Not to rain on your parade man, but Danzi are alot more then 'Boo hoo hoo I'm the last of my kind.' if you play them that way, you've obviously missed something.

To me the Danzi are like the blue giant's from Avatar. except they can't plug into their enviroment.

As Gm I let my players pick if they want Psionics or not, I use the rules that you lose skills for anything but minor. Some Players pick them, some don't.

Also, re-read the Danzi write up. They [i]could[i] be Barbarian Warriors, but aren't likely to be so. In fact as GM I'd make a Danzi PC stick to the OCC's mentioned. Especially since the Barbarian Warrior OCC doesn't really fit them. their OCC fits perfectly as a Barbarian, without the need for the OCC in Hinterlands.

EmperorDoggie has a point, but I think hes taking them to be more the oppressed Native Americans, as opposed to the strong indignant "You might have ravaged us, but were still here dammit!" that they seem to portray in the text.

I mean, they are inherently compassionate, fiercely honor bound, always seek peaceful resolutions before resorting to violence. Yet, their preferred alignments are generally unprincipled or anarchist. To me, this reads as a race that stands tall and in a "You won't keep me down" kind of fashion that solves their problems in their own way, bloodily if need be. Especially since they are incredibly fast, most Danzi can out run the game they hunt for food.

The way I am playing my character, hes been Exiled from the clans for unintentionally breaking his honor, but, in doing so he marked the clan for dishonor as well. (he slaughtered a bunch of slavers without offering them the chance to surrender, as they were trying to take his son) So, the way I have him reacting is he offers a peaceful solution, if the party offered refuses, he hacks them to pieces.

We actually just had the first session with this character, and a caravan got obliterated by some zombies, the trading post leader hopped on a horse in a panic to go after the caravan. I told the caravan leader to stop, he would probably only die if he went, to let (us) go check it out and report back. He wouldn't listen so I killed his horse to protect him from his own stupidity.

Ravenwing wrote:
Also, re-read the Danzi write up. They [i]could[i] be Barbarian Warriors, but aren't likely to be so. In fact as GM I'd make a Danzi PC stick to the OCC's mentioned. Especially since the Barbarian Warrior OCC doesn't really fit them. their OCC fits perfectly as a Barbarian, without the need for the OCC in Hinterlands.

Also, the Northern Hinterlands book wasn't out when the Danzi were introduced I think... *checks*

Yeah, Danzi were introduced in WB 11, Eastern Territories; and the Barbarian wasn't put out until Northen Hinterlands, WB 13. So, its just one of those chronological things that only makes sense since they ARE nomadic and tribal by nature, and favor men at arms... a Barbarian Warrior fills that role nicely.

Display-Name-Alpha wrote:

Ravenwing wrote:
Also, re-read the Danzi write up. They [i]could[i] be Barbarian Warriors, but aren't likely to be so. In fact as GM I'd make a Danzi PC stick to the OCC's mentioned. Especially since the Barbarian Warrior OCC doesn't really fit them. their OCC fits perfectly as a Barbarian, without the need for the OCC in Hinterlands.

Also, the Northern Hinterlands book wasn't out when the Danzi were introduced I think... *checks*

Yeah, Danzi were introduced in WB 11, Eastern Territories; and the Barbarian wasn't put out until Northen Hinterlands, WB 13. So, its just one of those chronological things that only makes sense since they ARE nomadic and tribal by nature, and favor men at arms... a Barbarian Warrior fills that role nicely.

No you are right that Hinterlands came out after Eastern Territories.
However, I think the Barbarian Warrior is more suited to more violent and savage races. I see the Danzi as 'Noble Savages' myself. While they aren't afraid to use violence to end a dispute, they prefer peaceful solutions. The Barbarian Warrior just doesn't sit right in my mind. Maybe it's just a personal thing, but I see their RCC fitting the Barbarian Warrior 'type' better. Perhaps it's because it has a very Tribal Warrior feel to it.

Lol, although I tend to lift a lot of their spirituality and such from Spirit West(Yes I found a use for that book and its not for Rifts!), and the Avatar movie, since it appears the makers of that movie saw a Danzi and said, 'thats what the Nabu look like, just make them blue and give them a tail!'

I think the Barbarian O.C.C. fits well. I don't think you need to limit it to just savage races.

The killing of the horse was classic! Someone should reward bonus XP for that! Oh yeah, me!

When I was playing a Danzi, I never felt that it was overpowered. Ya he was fast, and the tattoos were cool. So as far as being a broken race, I don't think it is.

As a barbarian, you would be pretty powerful. But not any more so then a Bear-man or Dogre one.

Either way happy gaming. It was a fun race to play.

Display-Name-Alpha wrote:...Now mix that with innate magic, and me choosing I wanted minor psionics (I mean really, who HONESTLY rolls on the table... you either want psionics or you don't)...

Every group I've played in rolled on it unless they didn't want psionics, or were taking a PCC.

Ravenwing wrote:

EmperorDoggie wrote:I just recently got the Eastern Territory book and read these guys. Your right, really powerful BUT, so a long history of opression and genocide, you have to playing the whole "i'm oppressed" thing. Really tiring for your party to listen to your historical woes no matter how much you smash.

Umm Not to rain on your parade man, but Danzi are alot more then 'Boo hoo hoo I'm the last of my kind.' if you play them that way, you've obviously missed something.

To me the Danzi are like the blue giant's from Avatar. except they can't plug into their enviroment.

As Gm I let my players pick if they want Psionics or not, I use the rules that you lose skills for anything but minor. Some Players pick them, some don't.

Also, re-read the Danzi write up. They [i]could[i] be Barbarian Warriors, but aren't likely to be so. In fact as GM I'd make a Danzi PC stick to the OCC's mentioned. Especially since the Barbarian Warrior OCC doesn't really fit them. their OCC fits perfectly as a Barbarian, without the need for the OCC in Hinterlands.

Yes technically you "could" give them the Barbarian OCC.
but the standard Danzi class works just fine for that IMO.
as to the psi thing...
I allow my players to choose to be psi or not.
But...
Only wild talent (my own invention) is free
You have to roll for anything higher.

We've always allowed players to just choose what they wanted to play. While it might be interesting to leave everything to chance (and did play and GM that way for years), getting to design the PC you want instead of leaving everything to chance is just as satisfying and fun for all.

barna10 wrote:We've always allowed players to just choose what they wanted to play. While it might be interesting to leave everything to chance (and did play and GM that way for years), getting to design the PC you want instead of leaving everything to chance is just as satisfying and fun for all.

I used to do that...
but after the 50th merc; mage; or thief with major psi in a row; I said enough and developed my own chart.

I have had a Danzi in one of my past games- the player enjoyed it, the group enjoyed it, and I, as GM, enjoyed it.

Well, the Danzi race doesn't seem that overpowered as written. If you have some luck with the dice and roll up a genetically superior Danzi he'll seem powerful because he is an outlier. Also, if you ignore the dice and gift him psionics he is going to have yet another advantage over the majority of the Palladium population and the Danzi race. Finally, you throw in a very powerful OCC that may or may not be a logical fit and sure he'll be powerful. Of course, most of what you mentioned is speed and if the guy is fast, he's just fast. It doesn't help that much in a group because he'll just leave everyone behind but if he has to make an escape he'll be the last to be caught.

On a tangent, I always felt the idea that someone can use a 2 handed weapon 1 handed is silly. You're ability to use such a weapon would boil down to having the enormous strength to handle that 3rd class lever (the strength needed being multiplied by the mechanical advantage of the longer blade or haft) and just the space needed to swing the weapon. I'd nix that immediately, but I strive for a grittier game.

-Vek
"Versimultude."

Veknironth wrote:
On a tangent, I always felt the idea that someone can use a 2 handed weapon 1 handed is silly. You're ability to use such a weapon would boil down to having the enormous strength to handle that 3rd class lever (the strength needed being multiplied by the mechanical advantage of the longer blade or haft) and just the space needed to swing the weapon. I'd nix that immediately, but I strive for a grittier game.

-Vek
"Versimultude."

I'll never understand this thinking. Physics in a fantasy environment. I counter all of your arguments with Magic.

Well, I'd be somewhat fine with that if there were actually magic involved. Although, to my knowledge, the Danzi are not magic creatures nor are human barbarians. You have to draw the line somewhere, else you could just say they have huge hands and can grab three 1 handed weapons in each hand, doing triple the damage. Body Mechanics would seriously hamper an attempt to swing something that long as a weapon.

I forgot to mention, if you're making a Danzi character, it must be called Tony.

-Vek
"Hold me closer, Tony Danzi."

yeah there is something funny with the spd stat sometimes. we had a dwarf in my last campaign that rolled minimum on his spd stat and max on his digging speed. theoretically it would have been easier for him to keep up with the group if he was tunneling under them in the ground...i imagine him flying cartoon style behind a pick or shovel thats moving so fast it just looks like a circular outline with a rooster tail of dirt and rock behind him

Ive used the danzi as an adventure catalyst- Help the danzi tribe and gain a magic tattoo as a reward. Worked out great and unique!

Also very easy to do an Avatar type scenario (and they must be the inspiration for the film) around the danzi and the millenium tree in the disputed wilderness lands.

"Versimultude."[/quote]

I'll never understand this thinking. Physics in a fantasy environment. I counter all of your arguments with Magic.[/quote]

Physics is everywhere, you can't escape it. Without it there is no friction, no friction then you cannot even move! no gravity and we all just float away . . . gotta have physics! I do think that with uber strength a character could wield a large weapon one handed. Dwarf, PS of 24 uses a war hammer with a 30 pound head on it; no problem. Ogre with PS of 28 uses a ogre sized flamberge one handed; again no problem. Dwarf above uses the ogre flamberge? two handed only, and with some negatives to hit for being so much bigger than he is.
GM needs to consider the weapon, the character and strength to determine if the weapon can be used, and then with any penalties.

Veknironth wrote:I forgot to mention, if you're making a Danzi character, it must be called Tony.

The Dark Elf wrote:Ive used the danzi as an adventure catalyst- Help the danzi tribe and gain a magic tattoo as a reward. Worked out great and unique!

Also very easy to do an Avatar type scenario (and they must be the inspiration for the film) around the danzi and the millenium tree in the disputed wilderness lands.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner.

But who says there can only be one Millenium tree? there are alot of places in the Western Territroy that humans or wolfen have ever stepped foot on. Thats where I'd look.

Justthis Guy wrote:
Physics is everywhere, you can't escape it. Without it there is no friction, no friction then you cannot even move! no gravity and we all just float away . . . gotta have physics! I do think that with uber strength a character could wield a large weapon one handed. Dwarf, PS of 24 uses a war hammer with a 30 pound head on it; no problem. Ogre with PS of 28 uses a ogre sized flamberge one handed; again no problem. Dwarf above uses the ogre flamberge? two handed only, and with some negatives to hit for being so much bigger than he is.
GM needs to consider the weapon, the character and strength to determine if the weapon can be used, and then with any penalties.

I can see an argument for that I really can "The sword is taller than you". But if the Dwarf is a class like a Barbarian, and he gets the ability to fight with large twohanded swords 1 handed and you deny him that, does he get a bonus for being forced to use a weapon twohanded that the class says he could otherwise do? If not, you are forcing a physics nerf on a character that is designed to defy physics to begin with (Balance with a sword is an incredible part of the combat, and the class is removing that for the sake of a "power").

Justthis Guy wrote:GM needs to consider the weapon, the character and strength to determine if the weapon can be used, and then with any penalties.

This here is the major flaw in your argument. A GM need NOT do any such thing, be it consider physics, or obey rules as written, a GM need only follow his whims, and only stops when his players cease to accompany him on this flight of fantasy (sometimes not even then).

It is a fantasy game where there are fantastical elements that cannot be explained by our current level of real world knowledge or understanding. Maybe dwarves have a passive natural ability similar to the Mystic Fulcrum spell that has not yet even been discovered by the writers, and applies only when wielding weapons they would not otherwise be able to wield.

Who can say? The GM, that's who......

okay, Danzi being may absolute favourite Palladium Megaversal creation ever I think I'll put my foot into this ring.

Danzi can be quite powerful it is true, they have a lot of advantages over other races: Natural AR, superior S.D.C, slightly above average Hit Points. They also have some instinctive magical power that can be very helpful. So over all they have slightly better than average stats.
The biggest buff to the Danzi characters is the access to their Magic Tattoos, but these have a price. To activate them you must expend your Hit Points, which in a combat situation can be really risky. The rewards are big but the cost is huge.

The downsides to Danzi characters are their limited range of potential O.C.C's and their lower potential for psionics (which the OP skipped over as he elected to choose to have psionics, something I won't be able to see eye-to-eye with.) They also can not get super states other than with speed, PS and PB, every one of their other stats has a bonus that stops the "exploding 6's syndrome" from happening.
The remaining downsides are very "role-play" specific and as such some don't see them as downsides; the suspicion of all men of the cloth, the rarity of the race as a whole, their unique outlook on life and spirituality which is so very different from the mainstream religions of the Palladium world, the system of marking via body piercing and tattoos, the bond with faerie folk that all Danzi share, the mannerisms of the danzi (ALWAYS being polite, never resorting to violence unless peaceful alternatives have failed, Big thumbs up to the OP for playing this out).

Imagine a quiet village in the Eastern Territories, suddenly out from the forest a tall humanoid appears garbed in nothing but a loin cloth. Tattoos adorn his body everywhere and in his hand a short hafted spear of bone is clutched firmly. This tall (Danzi are 6.5-7 feet tall) strange being strides up to the village with swift strides, gracefully covering the open ground in mere seconds.
How do you think the villagers will react? How about when they see the Sternum hanging around his neck? Or the pouch that contains many bone fragments?


As to the point about the Danzi being a pretty boring character and playing the "I'm Being Oppressed" type of character. Nothing could be farther from the truth. All Danzi, with the exception of the Eh'Dehko, go about their lives as normal despite the adversities facing them. They are stalwarts who do not grumble or complain about their lot in life they go about things and if a problem arises they face it then and there. They do not dwell on the past save to know that each race as a whole can do bad things but each individual needs to be treated as such. The other alternative is to play a character that does not care that they are being oppressed and goes about with a "I might go down but I'm taking as many of you filthy Uldu-Set with me as I can" attitude.

I could go on for hours about these guys, but the I will end it with this: The reason the OP's Danzi seems over powered is the combination of an O.C.C that was not designed to be used by the race as well as opting to select Psionics rather than attempt the roll.
Danzi are a very balanced race.

barna10 wrote:I think the Barbarian O.C.C. fits well. I don't think you need to limit it to just savage races.

The killing of the horse was classic! Someone should reward bonus XP for that! Oh yeah, me!

Rofl. THAT HORSE HAD IT COMMING ! ! ! ! He saw it in his eyes...