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I would say that a TW fits quite well for the technophile Altess - maybe raising XP costs for extra skills, or "jumping" back and forth between TW and rogue scholar/scientist OCC also explainable and seems fitting.

As for spell progression... Check spell prices and Altess wallet.

torkair wrote:Ever since I saw the Altess RCC in Anvil Galaxy I have wanted to write one up as a magic/mystic OCC. Now of course there's the popular fall back of going with a LLW but I want to avoid that route. I know that there are a ton of magic OCCs to choose from but what I'm mostly looking for is good spell progression as well as skill progression. I've toyed with the idea of using the White Rose Mystic knight template but that just seems overpowered. Then there's the R:UE Mystic, R:CE D-Phase Shifter, Obsidian Spell thief... That's just to name a few. Any advise would be greatly appreciated

A RCC is a Class. Racial Char Class.
A class is not a race so can not 'take' another class.

If the Altess has a RCC they have to take then they can not take any other class. (The quick and drirty way to determin this is is their racial stats mixed into the class text, then the race has to take the race's RCC.)

However, if the Aless race can take classes other then I would take my fav mage type, the Mystic Study.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

torkair wrote:Ever since I saw the Altess RCC in Anvil Galaxy I have wanted to write one up as a magic/mystic OCC. Now of course there's the popular fall back of going with a LLW but I want to avoid that route. I know that there are a ton of magic OCCs to choose from but what I'm mostly looking for is good spell progression as well as skill progression. I've toyed with the idea of using the White Rose Mystic knight template but that just seems overpowered. Then there's the R:UE Mystic, R:CE D-Phase Shifter, Obsidian Spell thief... That's just to name a few. Any advise would be greatly appreciated

A RCC is a Class. Racial Char Class.
A class is not a race so can not 'take' another class.

If the Altess has a RCC they have to take then they can not take any other class. (The quick and drirty way to determin this is is their racial stats mixed into the class text, then the race has to take the race's RCC.)

However, if the Aless race can take classes other then I would take my fav mage type, the Mystic Study.

The write-up specifically says that Altess can choose OCCs, but a majority of them are the OCC (can't remember the name) presented in the Anvil Galaxy.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

torkair wrote:Ever since I saw the Altess RCC in Anvil Galaxy I have wanted to write one up as a magic/mystic OCC. Now of course there's the popular fall back of going with a LLW but I want to avoid that route. I know that there are a ton of magic OCCs to choose from but what I'm mostly looking for is good spell progression as well as skill progression. I've toyed with the idea of using the White Rose Mystic knight template but that just seems overpowered. Then there's the R:UE Mystic, R:CE D-Phase Shifter, Obsidian Spell thief... That's just to name a few. Any advise would be greatly appreciated

A RCC is a Class. Racial Char Class.
A class is not a race so can not 'take' another class.

If the Altess has a RCC they have to take then they can not take any other class. (The quick and drirty way to determin this is is their racial stats mixed into the class text, then the race has to take the race's RCC.)

However, if the Aless race can take classes other then I would take my fav mage type, the Mystic Study.

The write-up specifically says that Altess can choose OCCs, but a majority of them are the OCC (can't remember the name) presented in the Anvil Galaxy.

--flatline

What you call an OCC that is actually an RCC, the Altess Noble RCC. Only 15% of the Altess population choose specific OCC instead of their own Noble Racial Class.

torkair wrote:I think a bit of the confusion here comes from the fact that the term "RCC" in my understanding is a characters race, although I have seen a few instances where there are race specific OCCs such as the Wolfen Quatora and the Silhouette. With that being said, I feel that the Altess racial template would be excellent for a magic user and I feel stuck between the O.S.T. and the D-Phase Shifter.

What an RCC actually is is a VERY hotly contested issue (particularly with drewkitty and a lesser degree myself), and even though Palladium admits they used it in contradictory ways some insist that everything that says 'RCC' without exception can't learn anything else in spite of Palladium declaring that not to be the case. So you have a case of 'Well Palladium wasn't clear on it so even though they say they messed up so I insist every RCC is right even though Palladium clearly said that's wrong'.

Nightmask wrote:

torkair wrote:I think a bit of the confusion here comes from the fact that the term "RCC" in my understanding is a characters race, although I have seen a few instances where there are race specific OCCs such as the Wolfen Quatora and the Silhouette. With that being said, I feel that the Altess racial template would be excellent for a magic user and I feel stuck between the O.S.T. and the D-Phase Shifter.

What an RCC actually is is a VERY hotly contested issue (particularly with drewkitty and a lesser degree myself), and even though Palladium admits they used it in contradictory ways some insist that everything that says 'RCC' without exception can't learn anything else in spite of Palladium declaring that not to be the case. So you have a case of 'Well Palladium wasn't clear on it so even though they say they messed up so I insist every RCC is right even though Palladium clearly said that's wrong'.

best way to look at it is...
An RCC is a race
but
Race is not necessarily an RCC.
Beyond that I think there are very few TRUE RCCs left since RUE changed the rules on that.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

torkair wrote:I think a bit of the confusion here comes from the fact that the term "RCC" in my understanding is a characters race, although I have seen a few instances where there are race specific OCCs such as the Wolfen Quatora and the Silhouette. With that being said, I feel that the Altess racial template would be excellent for a magic user and I feel stuck between the O.S.T. and the D-Phase Shifter.

What an RCC actually is is a VERY hotly contested issue (particularly with drewkitty and a lesser degree myself), and even though Palladium admits they used it in contradictory ways some insist that everything that says 'RCC' without exception can't learn anything else in spite of Palladium declaring that not to be the case. So you have a case of 'Well Palladium wasn't clear on it so even though they say they messed up so I insist every RCC is right even though Palladium clearly said that's wrong'.

best way to look at it is...
An RCC is a race
but
Race is not necessarily an RCC.
Beyond that I think there are very few TRUE RCCs left since RUE changed the rules on that.

Unless I see something about a particular race that would justify it only ever being able to know that limited skill set selection I just treat it as a race specific OCC, as the idea that there would be a hard-wired restriction to learning those skills in nearly all the cases I've seen just doesn't track with what we see of the race. It's either a common educational background for the race or what the most common representatives have had time to learn but not the only thing they can learn particularly if cut off from that background. And of course the special abilities are clearly natural to the race and not 'well we're taught how to heal fast and see the invisible growing up'.

Well, the RCC/Race discussion is moot for the Altess since there is an "Available OCCs" section in the description.

--flatline

sagajr wrote: Only 15% of the Altess population choose specific OCC instead of their own Noble Racial Class.

flatline wrote:Well, the RCC/Race discussion is moot for the Altess since there is an "Available OCCs" section in the description.

--flatline

If the former is true, the Latter is true in only 15% of the cases. Sort of like rolling for minor/major Psi powers for human chars.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

sagajr wrote: Only 15% of the Altess population choose specific OCC instead of their own Noble Racial Class.

flatline wrote:Well, the RCC/Race discussion is moot for the Altess since there is an "Available OCCs" section in the description.

--flatline

If the former is true, the Latter is true in only 15% of the cases. Sort of like rolling for minor/major Psi powers for human chars.

Just because 85% of a race chooses a particular class doesn't mean that they had to choose that class. Unless you believe in predestination, I suppose.

--flatline

Maybe that race does acknowledge predestination?
However, that is for each particular GMs to deal with. *waves that aside as a dead argument*
Is not saying Player chars Have to make a % roll to see if they can take an OCC. That is because the player is making a choice about it. However, I can see a GM having the player roll a % to see if the char can take a OCC or have to have the race's RCC.

Oh fopr the luva...
PLEASE RE-READ the description.
the Altess can be whatever the heck the GM / Player wants.
Now go away.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Maybe that race does acknowledge predestination?
However, that is for each particular GMs to deal with. *waves that aside as a dead argument*
Is not saying Player chars Have to make a % roll to see if they can take an OCC. That is because the player is making a choice about it. However, I can see a GM having the player roll a % to see if the char can take a OCC or have to have the race's RCC.

would that same logic apply to a character that wants to play oooohhh, a burster in the CS? I mean only X% of humanity is master psis, and then only Y% are bursters.......

DhAkael wrote:Oh fopr the luva...
PLEASE RE-READ the description.
the Altess can be whatever the heck the GM / Player wants.
Now go away.

What part of what I said say "has to" or "this is the way it is"?
None of it.

In fact I put text in twice in the last post that says that I am say is not stating a "has to" or "this is the way it is."
Open your <descriptive adverb> eyes. Your critical reading skill was a failed roll.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Oh fopr the luva...
PLEASE RE-READ the description.
the Altess can be whatever the heck the GM / Player wants.
Now go away.

What part of what I said say "has to" or "this is the way it is"?
None of it.

In fact I put text in twice in the last post that says that I am say is not stating a "has to" or "this is the way it is."
Open your <descriptive adverb> eyes. Your critical reading skill was a failed roll.

That being said, if a GM EVER made me roll dice to see if I could play a character I wanted to play I would beat him with the dice!

That being said, PCs are the exceptions, not the rule. Do whatever you want as long as your group thinks it will be fun. That's the only rule you need (Oh, and DrewKitty, this last part is Canon).

barna10 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Oh fopr the luva...
PLEASE RE-READ the description.
the Altess can be whatever the heck the GM / Player wants.
Now go away.

What part of what I said say "has to" or "this is the way it is"?
None of it.

In fact I put text in twice in the last post that says that I am say is not stating a "has to" or "this is the way it is."
Open your <descriptive adverb> eyes. Your critical reading skill was a failed roll.

That being said, if a GM EVER made me roll dice to see if I could play a character I wanted to play I would beat him with the dice!

That being said, PCs are the exceptions, not the rule. Do whatever you want as long as your group thinks it will be fun. That's the only rule you need (Oh, and DrewKitty, this last part is Canon).

I can think of several reasons why a GM might require a player to roll dice for a class.
The biggest being too many abuses of the "well it says xx% of the rave CS be" causing an imbalance in the setting. (IE: too many of one race/class type being made.)

Damian Magecraft wrote:

barna10 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Oh fopr the luva...
PLEASE RE-READ the description.
the Altess can be whatever the heck the GM / Player wants.
Now go away.

What part of what I said say "has to" or "this is the way it is"?
None of it.

In fact I put text in twice in the last post that says that I am say is not stating a "has to" or "this is the way it is."
Open your <descriptive adverb> eyes. Your critical reading skill was a failed roll.

That being said, if a GM EVER made me roll dice to see if I could play a character I wanted to play I would beat him with the dice!

That being said, PCs are the exceptions, not the rule. Do whatever you want as long as your group thinks it will be fun. That's the only rule you need (Oh, and DrewKitty, this last part is Canon).

I can think of several reasons why a GM might require a player to roll dice for a class.
The biggest being too many abuses of the "well it says xx% of the rave CS be" causing an imbalance in the setting. (IE: too many of one race/class type being made.)

I would consider that poor form. Either allow it or disallow it. Making the player roll dice is just petty.

--flatline

Damian Magecraft wrote:I can think of several reasons why a GM might require a player to roll dice for a class.
The biggest being too many abuses of the "well it says xx% of the rave CS be" causing an imbalance in the setting. (IE: too many of one race/class type being made.)

I'm not following you. Are you trying to say that the players making up too many of a certain character type is going to throw off the demographics of the game world? If so, I find logic in your argument.

Percentages would have to be infinitesimally small for the players to ever hope to unbalance demographics. Also, you can't expect the player group (or even all of the characters created in your world over a lifetime of gaming) to reflect the demographic information provided. The sample size is way to small.

For instance, 12.6% of the United States is considered Black or African American. So, if playing in a modern day setting, are you going to limit the numbers of black or African American characters to 1 in 10, or make any player wanting to play a black or African American character roll dice to see if he or she is one of the 12%?

Or how about Hawaiian? 0.2% of the population is Hawaiian OR other Pacific islander. How would you rule someone wanting to play a full-blooded Hawaiian? What dice would you make the player roll to see if he could make up his Hawaiian character?

In addition, look at NBA or NFL teams. Do they reflect the demographics of the United States? No, they don't, not even close.

In short, the players' characters do not affect the demographics of a game world, nor should the players' choices be affected by demographical data provided in a rule book. This information is background material, not a rule that limits character selection.

I once had an argument with one of my Shadowrun players over just this thing. In Shadowrun (1st edition at least, and this is remembering from 20 years ago) it is stated that less than 5% of the pop. has magical potential, and less than 25% of those with potential ever get training. He argued that no more mages should be allowed in the group (3 of 6 in the group were mages) because we it went against the demographical data. I told him, "What percentage of the population are Shadowrunners (it was stated as something less than .1%)? All of your characters are Shadowrunners and you don't seem to have a problem with that stat being off!"

The same can be said about any game. What percentage of the pop. are adventures? Should you have to roll dice to see if you can even play the game in the first place?

flatline wrote:I would consider that poor form. Either allow it or disallow it. Making the player roll dice is just petty.

--flatline

Petty is one word for it.

barna10 wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Oh for the luva...
PLEASE RE-READ the description.
the Altess can be whatever the heck the GM / Player wants.
Now go away.

What part of what I said say "has to" or "this is the way it is"?
None of it.

In fact I put text in twice in the last post that says that I am say is not stating a "has to" or "this is the way it is."
Open your <descriptive adverb> eyes. Your critical reading skill was a failed roll.

That being said, if a GM EVER made me roll dice to see if I could play a character I wanted to play I would beat him with the dice!.

Finally a proper response.

barna10 wrote:That being said, PCs are the exceptions, not the rule. Do whatever you want as long as your group thinks it will be fun. That's the only rule you need (Oh, and DrewKitty, this last part is Canon).

Didn't say anything here that would contradict these things that are usually left unsaid things. Even if some here might of taken what I said w/o taking the usually unsaid things into count.

I was just messing with you, Drewkitty. No hard feelings?

barna10 wrote:I was just messing with you, Drewkitty. No hard feelings?

I was surprised at how everybody misread my intentions with my posts.

barna10 wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:I can think of several reasons why a GM might require a player to roll dice for a class.
The biggest being too many abuses of the "well it says xx% of the rave CS be" causing an imbalance in the setting. (IE: too many of one race/class type being made.)

I'm not following you. Are you trying to say that the players making up too many of a certain character type is going to throw off the demographics of the game world? If so, I find logic in your argument.

Percentages would have to be infinitesimally small for the players to ever hope to unbalance demographics. Also, you can't expect the player group (or even all of the characters created in your world over a lifetime of gaming) to reflect the demographic information provided. The sample size is way to small.

For instance, 12.6% of the United States is considered Black or African American. So, if playing in a modern day setting, are you going to limit the numbers of black or African American characters to 1 in 10, or make any player wanting to play a black or African American character roll dice to see if he or she is one of the 12%?

Or how about Hawaiian? 0.2% of the population is Hawaiian OR other Pacific islander. How would you rule someone wanting to play a full-blooded Hawaiian? What dice would you make the player roll to see if he could make up his Hawaiian character?

In addition, look at NBA or NFL teams. Do they reflect the demographics of the United States? No, they don't, not even close.

In short, the players' characters do not affect the demographics of a game world, nor should the players' choices be affected by demographical data provided in a rule book. This information is background material, not a rule that limits character selection.

I once had an argument with one of my Shadowrun players over just this thing. In Shadowrun (1st edition at least, and this is remembering from 20 years ago) it is stated that less than 5% of the pop. has magical potential, and less than 25% of those with potential ever get training. He argued that no more mages should be allowed in the group (3 of 6 in the group were mages) because we it went against the demographical data. I told him, "What percentage of the population are Shadowrunners (it was stated as something less than .1%)? All of your characters are Shadowrunners and you don't seem to have a problem with that stat being off!"

The same can be said about any game. What percentage of the pop. are adventures? Should you have to roll dice to see if you can even play the game in the first place?

When N&SS was released and made clear it was compatable with HUr for the next three years all anyone wanted to play was a ninja. 3 or 4 of one class is one thing...
50 is quite another.
And after 25+ years as a GM I have examples of it for every genre and class...
(Often as an atempt to OP a char using the percentage as a loophole).
So I can see why a GM might require it.
I dont require the roll; I just concider the player and my current game world and either flat out tell them its not gonna happen or allow it.
But I can see why a GM might.

barna10 wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:I can think of several reasons why a GM might require a player to roll dice for a class.
The biggest being too many abuses of the "well it says xx% of the rave CS be" causing an imbalance in the setting. (IE: too many of one race/class type being made.)

I'm not following you. Are you trying to say that the players making up too many of a certain character type is going to throw off the demographics of the game world? If so, I find logic in your argument.

Percentages would have to be infinitesimally small for the players to ever hope to unbalance demographics. Also, you can't expect the player group (or even all of the characters created in your world over a lifetime of gaming) to reflect the demographic information provided. The sample size is way to small.

For instance, 12.6% of the United States is considered Black or African American. So, if playing in a modern day setting, are you going to limit the numbers of black or African American characters to 1 in 10, or make any player wanting to play a black or African American character roll dice to see if he or she is one of the 12%?

Or how about Hawaiian? 0.2% of the population is Hawaiian OR other Pacific islander. How would you rule someone wanting to play a full-blooded Hawaiian? What dice would you make the player roll to see if he could make up his Hawaiian character?

In addition, look at NBA or NFL teams. Do they reflect the demographics of the United States? No, they don't, not even close.

In short, the players' characters do not affect the demographics of a game world, nor should the players' choices be affected by demographical data provided in a rule book. This information is background material, not a rule that limits character selection.

I once had an argument with one of my Shadowrun players over just this thing. In Shadowrun (1st edition at least, and this is remembering from 20 years ago) it is stated that less than 5% of the pop. has magical potential, and less than 25% of those with potential ever get training. He argued that no more mages should be allowed in the group (3 of 6 in the group were mages) because we it went against the demographical data. I told him, "What percentage of the population are Shadowrunners (it was stated as something less than .1%)? All of your characters are Shadowrunners and you don't seem to have a problem with that stat being off!"

The same can be said about any game. What percentage of the pop. are adventures? Should you have to roll dice to see if you can even play the game in the first place?

I used to make players roll, but then the EEOC sued because I was discriminating by not having enough minorities.

-yawn-

Where is the Mystic Study occ from?
And what is the Artifact Hunter from?

As for determining what class you can play or party makeup, I am all for it is entirely up to the players what they want to play as long as the GM allows it due to balance.

All this random roll crap is just that, it is terrible to allow pc power differences based on rolls, as that one set of rolls gives favor, maybe great favor to that pc while other suffer to greatly suffer in comparison all because of random rolling. I am of the opinion that if you like rolling to see what is allowed or you make the bracket then you should go to vegas instead and gamble instead of roleplay.

Nether wrote:Where is the Mystic Study occ from?
And what is the Artifact Hunter from?
.

Artifact Hunter is from Megaversal Builder. Dunno where Mystic Studies comes from, sorry.

taalismn wrote:

Nether wrote:Where is the Mystic Study occ from?
And what is the Artifact Hunter from?
.

Artifact Hunter is from Megaversal Builder. Dunno where Mystic Studies comes from, sorry.

Mystic Studies is a Power class from HU2.