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Need some clarification on rules as written. Without getting into the whole gray area of borrowing attacks from later rounds, a dodge uses one action per attack dodged and not one action allows you to dodge all attacks until yoru next action, correct?

Voodoolaw wrote:Need some clarification on rules as written. Without getting into the whole gray area of borrowing attacks from later rounds, a dodge uses one action per attack dodged and not one action allows you to dodge all attacks until yoru next action, correct?

A dodge against an incoming attack/threat uses up your next melee action... If you do not have another melee action, ie if you're out of attacks for that melee round, you cannot dodge... either parry the attack somehow or stand there and take it like a champ. Multiple, back-to back dodges, will use up multiple attacks/actions for te round as well...
For example, you have 5 attacks per melee... you use your first attack swinging at your opponent... you then attempt to dodge your opponent's attack... successful or not, you lose your second attack/action because you're recovering from the dodge. Now if your opponent has a buddy and he attacks you, you try dodging that one, you'll have burned up your third attack... when the initiative rolls around to you again afterward, your second attack has been spent dodging... no attack or action for you... move on to your opponent... and his buddy... and so on...

Many thanks. Just what I was looking for.

Voodoolaw wrote:Many thanks. Just what I was looking for.

And that is why auto dodge is so potent or spells that allow you to make parry attempts instead of having to dodge inbound blasts.

Voodoolaw wrote:Need some clarification on rules as written. Without getting into the whole gray area of borrowing attacks from later rounds, a dodge uses one action per attack dodged and not one action allows you to dodge all attacks until yoru next action, correct?

In most PB settings, Dodge takes up/costing the char's next APM.
In rifts, (I believe) your char need to have at least one APM to, for chars with it, auto-dodge attacks.

Voodoolaw wrote:Need some clarification on rules as written. Without getting into the whole gray area of borrowing attacks from later rounds, a dodge uses one action per attack dodged and not one action allows you to dodge all attacks until yoru next action, correct?

If you're looking for a place to find the ability to roll once and dodge multiple attacks, it exists in Ninjas & Superspies as "Multiple Dodge". In essence you would make one dodge roll and then compare it against all the attacks faced in that period. Those you beat you would dodge, those that beat you would hit you.

It's moot because it's not part of Rifts hand-to-hand skills, but if you're looking for a way to do it, there you go

Multiple Dodge does exist in Rifts, to a limited degree. Characters transplanted from N&SS could have access to it, but the only way to get it through Rifts that I can think of off hand is the "Leap Dodge" (I think that's what it's called) that can be learned if you have studied the Tengu martial art in Rifts Japan. IIRC, it uses the same basic mechanic.

Other than that little bit of trivia, everybody's got the right of it so far.

JuliusCreed wrote:

Voodoolaw wrote:Need some clarification on rules as written. Without getting into the whole gray area of borrowing attacks from later rounds, a dodge uses one action per attack dodged and not one action allows you to dodge all attacks until yoru next action, correct?

A dodge against an incoming attack/threat uses up your next melee action... If you do not have another melee action, ie if you're out of attacks for that melee round, you cannot dodge... either parry the attack somehow or stand there and take it like a champ. Multiple, back-to back dodges, will use up multiple attacks/actions for te round as well...
For example, you have 5 attacks per melee... you use your first attack swinging at your opponent... you then attempt to dodge your opponent's attack... successful or not, you lose your second attack/action because you're recovering from the dodge. Now if your opponent has a buddy and he attacks you, you try dodging that one, you'll have burned up your third attack... when the initiative rolls around to you again afterward, your second attack has been spent dodging... no attack or action for you... move on to your opponent... and his buddy... and so on...

Is this actually how it works?
I haven't been playing it that way but I admit that there is a high likelihood that I am playing incorrectly...
The way I have always played is that dodging subtracts an action from your total but it doesn't cost your next attack, meaning you can dodge and actually fight back instead of constantly dodging fruitlessly.

Giant2005 wrote:

JuliusCreed wrote:

Voodoolaw wrote:Need some clarification on rules as written. Without getting into the whole gray area of borrowing attacks from later rounds, a dodge uses one action per attack dodged and not one action allows you to dodge all attacks until yoru next action, correct?

A dodge against an incoming attack/threat uses up your next melee action... If you do not have another melee action, ie if you're out of attacks for that melee round, you cannot dodge... either parry the attack somehow or stand there and take it like a champ. Multiple, back-to back dodges, will use up multiple attacks/actions for te round as well...
For example, you have 5 attacks per melee... you use your first attack swinging at your opponent... you then attempt to dodge your opponent's attack... successful or not, you lose your second attack/action because you're recovering from the dodge. Now if your opponent has a buddy and he attacks you, you try dodging that one, you'll have burned up your third attack... when the initiative rolls around to you again afterward, your second attack has been spent dodging... no attack or action for you... move on to your opponent... and his buddy... and so on...

Is this actually how it works?
I haven't been playing it that way but I admit that there is a high likelihood that I am playing incorrectly...
The way I have always played is that dodging subtracts an action from your total but it doesn't cost your next attack, meaning you can dodge and actually fight back instead of constantly dodging fruitlessly.

The example is the canon way it is done...
but...
your method of subtracting from the back end is so common a House rule that it has become a secondary pseudo canon method.
neither is incorrect.
each has its advantages and disadvantages.

Giant2005 wrote:

JuliusCreed wrote:

Voodoolaw wrote:Need some clarification on rules as written. Without getting into the whole gray area of borrowing attacks from later rounds, a dodge uses one action per attack dodged and not one action allows you to dodge all attacks until yoru next action, correct?

A dodge against an incoming attack/threat uses up your next melee action... If you do not have another melee action, ie if you're out of attacks for that melee round, you cannot dodge... either parry the attack somehow or stand there and take it like a champ. Multiple, back-to back dodges, will use up multiple attacks/actions for te round as well...
For example, you have 5 attacks per melee... you use your first attack swinging at your opponent... you then attempt to dodge your opponent's attack... successful or not, you lose your second attack/action because you're recovering from the dodge. Now if your opponent has a buddy and he attacks you, you try dodging that one, you'll have burned up your third attack... when the initiative rolls around to you again afterward, your second attack has been spent dodging... no attack or action for you... move on to your opponent... and his buddy... and so on...

Is this actually how it works?
I haven't been playing it that way but I admit that there is a high likelihood that I am playing incorrectly...
The way I have always played is that dodging subtracts an action from your total but it doesn't cost your next attack, meaning you can dodge and actually fight back instead of constantly dodging fruitlessly.

By canon law, yes. It is actually possible for a person to keep their opponent dodging attacks during the entire melee round and not be able to launch a single counter-attack until either A>the defender actually manages to find some form of cover that protects him/her well enough that they no longer have to dodge, such as ducking into a building or behind a car, B>the attacker runs out of ammo and has to spend an attack/action to reload their weapon or C>the defender manages to maneuver close enough to their attacker while dodging to engage them in hand to hand combat. This option is particularly dangerous as it puts a character in the ever deadly point blank range zone, but if a player manages to pull it off, he can get close enough to a gun wielding enemy to throw a punch or kick, disarm his opponent by knocking the gun away... I even allow them to parry attacks from a gun if they are close enough. This is the classic "Rush the shooter and wrestle him for the gun" scene we've all grown accustomed to in many spy and action movies. The shooter brings the gun up/around/down to blast his target, the victim desperately grabs for his opponent's wrist or forearm of even tries knocking the gun away as it swings around trying to get a bead on him, and the wrestling match begins.

So how does the Sharpshooter's "dodge and come up shooting" ability factor in?
Does a Sharpshooter with that ability play the way I have been playing with every character? The dodge action comes off the tally but the dodger can still attack with his next attack?

Giant2005 wrote:So how does the Sharpshooter's "dodge and come up shooting" ability factor in?
Does a Sharpshooter with that ability play the way I have been playing with every character? The dodge action comes off the tally but the dodger can still attack with his next attack?

That is how I would play it you dodge the action and you can shoot with your next but would be limited to a shoot action and nothing else.

Giant2005 wrote:So how does the Sharpshooter's "dodge and come up shooting" ability factor in?
Does a Sharpshooter with that ability play the way I have been playing with every character? The dodge action comes off the tally but the dodger can still attack with his next attack?

If memory serves correctly (No books available to reference) the Sharpshooter's Dodge and Come Up Shooting ability is based on a combination move basis similar to the ones characterized in N&SS books, such as the Reverse Turning Kick and the Drop Kick, both of which are a combined Dodge/Attack. The next attack is still used in the Dodge, but it is in the process of executing the dodge that the character is attacking. Game mechanics on how it works...

Attacker rolls to strike... Defender rolls for combo Dodge/Attack, first by rolling to beat the Strike roll with a Dodge... if successful, the Dodge roll is immediately followed by a Strike roll against the opponent, who may defend normally... if the Dodge is unsuccessful, the combo has been disrupted and no Strike roll is made, but the Defender's next attack is still used up in the attempt at dodging.... Attacker rolls to Strike again...

Again, I do not have the proper books available for reference on this point, though I am aware of what you're talking about... I'm only uncertain of whether or not I'm correct in my assumptions in this post about the Sharpshooter's special ability. At the very least, you know how the combo moves work in Ninjas and Superspies now

JuliusCreed wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:So how does the Sharpshooter's "dodge and come up shooting" ability factor in?
Does a Sharpshooter with that ability play the way I have been playing with every character? The dodge action comes off the tally but the dodger can still attack with his next attack?

If memory serves correctly (No books available to reference) the Sharpshooter's Dodge and Come Up Shooting ability is based on a combination move basis similar to the ones characterized in N&SS books, such as the Reverse Turning Kick and the Drop Kick, both of which are a combined Dodge/Attack. The next attack is still used in the Dodge, but it is in the process of executing the dodge that the character is attacking. Game mechanics on how it works...

Attacker rolls to strike... Defender rolls for combo Dodge/Attack, first by rolling to beat the Strike roll with a Dodge... if successful, the Dodge roll is immediately followed by a Strike roll against the opponent, who may defend normally... if the Dodge is unsuccessful, the combo has been disrupted and no Strike roll is made, but the Defender's next attack is still used up in the attempt at dodging.... Attacker rolls to Strike again...

Again, I do not have the proper books available for reference on this point, though I am aware of what you're talking about... I'm only uncertain of whether or not I'm correct in my assumptions in this post about the Sharpshooter's special ability. At the very least, you know how the combo moves work in Ninjas and Superspies now

Thats how I play it as well (even tho the rules are not clear on this) bith the dodge and the attack count as one action. (important note: I treat the shooting half of the combo action as a wild shot.)

Rappanui wrote:actually combination moves are not defended normally. unless they have multiple or automatic dodge, or paired weapon .. they can not defend against the 2nd strike
because it occurs at the same step. They are then struck with a 5 or higher.

combo moves are not treated the same as simultaneous attacks.
and yet are at the same time...
they still require a roll for both actions but only count as one.
also depending on range and circumstances the dodge and shoot person may require a 8 or even higher to strike.