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Posted: **Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:15 am**

I cast FLOAT ON WATER on one on the LOTD's tentacles when it comes at me.

What happens?

Posted: **Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:51 am**

Both spells say your about as buoyant as a piece of wood, so I'd say you still get dragged under.

Posted: **Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:20 am**

The Beast wrote:Both spells say your about as buoyant as a piece of wood, so I'd say you still get dragged under.

But it says it cannot submerge.

Posted: **Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:46 am**

Well, we can either sharpie out the part about it being as bouyant as wood, or we can sharpie out the part that involves it not being able to submerge.

It's one of those situations where someone has to make a judgement call on it and depending on the person either option A is going to be the right way to do things or option B is going to be the right way to do things. Given the scale of the Tentacle my thought would be that the buoyancy spell would only effect a section of it determined by the level of the spell caster. Therefore, only a section of the tentacle would be unable to submerge, while the rest of the tentacle could pretty much move about as the lord of the deep sees fit.

Posted: **Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:53 am**

A LOTD Tentacle is not a Individual Being, it's part of a Individual Being. To get the spell to work you would have to cast it on the LOTD's main body. That would be my interpretation

Posted: **Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:03 pm**

Mallak's Place wrote:A LOTD Tentacle is not a Individual Being, it's part of a Individual Being. To get the spell to work you would have to cast it on the LOTD's main body. That would be my interpretation

Interesting approach. I'd assumed that so long as part of him was within range he would be effected, drift to the surface at the same rate as wood and be unable to submerge until the spell had expired. (Assuming he failed his save of course).

Posted: **Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:23 pm**

Akashic Soldier wrote:
Mallak's Place wrote:A LOTD Tentacle is not a Individual Being, it's part of a Individual Being. To get the spell to work you would have to cast it on the LOTD's main body. That would be my interpretation

Interesting approach. I'd assumed that so long as part of him was within range he would be effected, drift to the surface at the same rate as wood and be unable to submerge until the spell had expired. (Assuming he failed his save of course).

Wait, so we seriously are going to go down this road again? :roll:

Not that it isn't a legitimate road to take since Palladium books hasn't officially fixed the spell description to account for these situations and probably will be a legitimate argument for the foreseeable future. Scope of a spell has been an ongoing issue with a lot of different spells in the system, as right now the way float on water is written, if someone could get a bathtub that was big enough and fill it with water, a person could make the moon float with no issue. The same can be said of the Petrification spell where there is no limit on the scale of the target of the spell, so someone could petrify the universe if it was a valid target (And it would be permanent since the universe is not a creature of magic or supernatural.)

The quickest fix for the spell is to just limit the spell by weight, which is the logic used for most of the transformation spells under the earth warlock. Or as an alternative, limit the float spell by size, which makes a bit more sense since the whole point of casting the spell is to make something that normally isn't buoyant capable of floating, such as a heavy piece of equipment.

Posted: **Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:08 pm**

Colt47 wrote:
Akashic Soldier wrote:
Mallak's Place wrote:A LOTD Tentacle is not a Individual Being, it's part of a Individual Being. To get the spell to work you would have to cast it on the LOTD's main body. That would be my interpretation

Interesting approach. I'd assumed that so long as part of him was within range he would be effected, drift to the surface at the same rate as wood and be unable to submerge until the spell had expired. (Assuming he failed his save of course).

Wait, so we seriously are going to go down this road again?

Not that it isn't a legitimate road to take since Palladium books hasn't officially fixed the spell description to account for these situations and probably will be a legitimate argument for the foreseeable future. Scope of a spell has been an ongoing issue with a lot of different spells in the system, as right now the way float on water is written, if someone could get a bathtub that was big enough and fill it with water, a person could make the moon float with no issue. The same can be said of the Petrification spell where there is no limit on the scale of the target of the spell, so someone could petrify the universe if it was a valid target (And it would be permanent since the universe is not a creature of magic or supernatural.)

The quickest fix for the spell is to just limit the spell by weight, which is the logic used for most of the transformation spells under the earth warlock. Or as an alternative, limit the float spell by size, which makes a bit more sense since the whole point of casting the spell is to make something that normally isn't buoyant capable of floating, such as a heavy piece of equipment.

This is a single being and a valid target. Plus if it could work it might be a way for the New Navy to be able to actually fight it.

Posted: **Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:59 pm**

Akashic Soldier wrote:
Colt47 wrote:
Akashic Soldier wrote:
Mallak's Place wrote:A LOTD Tentacle is not a Individual Being, it's part of a Individual Being. To get the spell to work you would have to cast it on the LOTD's main body. That would be my interpretation

Interesting approach. I'd assumed that so long as part of him was within range he would be effected, drift to the surface at the same rate as wood and be unable to submerge until the spell had expired. (Assuming he failed his save of course).

Wait, so we seriously are going to go down this road again?

Not that it isn't a legitimate road to take since Palladium books hasn't officially fixed the spell description to account for these situations and probably will be a legitimate argument for the foreseeable future. Scope of a spell has been an ongoing issue with a lot of different spells in the system, as right now the way float on water is written, if someone could get a bathtub that was big enough and fill it with water, a person could make the moon float with no issue. The same can be said of the Petrification spell where there is no limit on the scale of the target of the spell, so someone could petrify the universe if it was a valid target (And it would be permanent since the universe is not a creature of magic or supernatural.)

The quickest fix for the spell is to just limit the spell by weight, which is the logic used for most of the transformation spells under the earth warlock. Or as an alternative, limit the float spell by size, which makes a bit more sense since the whole point of casting the spell is to make something that normally isn't buoyant capable of floating, such as a heavy piece of equipment.

This is a single being and a valid target. Plus if it could work it might be a way for the New Navy to be able to actually fight it.

Here is the problem with that notion:

Level 1 ocean magic power level example:

Sense Direction Underwater: Provides a character with flawless sense of direction under water and with knowledge of ocean currents.

Water Pulse: A powerful blast of water that inflicts minor damage (SDC primarily) and knocks human sized and smaller targets away by a set number of yards or meters.

And here is Float on Water in the state you want to make use of (With the Akira Choir going in the background):

Float on Water: Makes anything in the universe float on water regardless of scope or size.

Not only does this not match up with the previous two spells, it's basically ludicrous. If you want to run it this way go ahead, but it doesn't make any sense when the other spells at the same level can barely do anything close to what is being stated. In fact, this places the spell on par with or even more so with spells of legend.

Posted: **Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:10 pm**

Akashic Soldier wrote:
Colt47 wrote:
Akashic Soldier wrote:
Mallak's Place wrote:A LOTD Tentacle is not a Individual Being, it's part of a Individual Being. To get the spell to work you would have to cast it on the LOTD's main body. That would be my interpretation

Interesting approach. I'd assumed that so long as part of him was within range he would be effected, drift to the surface at the same rate as wood and be unable to submerge until the spell had expired. (Assuming he failed his save of course).

Wait, so we seriously are going to go down this road again?

Not that it isn't a legitimate road to take since Palladium books hasn't officially fixed the spell description to account for these situations and probably will be a legitimate argument for the foreseeable future. Scope of a spell has been an ongoing issue with a lot of different spells in the system, as right now the way float on water is written, if someone could get a bathtub that was big enough and fill it with water, a person could make the moon float with no issue. The same can be said of the Petrification spell where there is no limit on the scale of the target of the spell, so someone could petrify the universe if it was a valid target (And it would be permanent since the universe is not a creature of magic or supernatural.)

The quickest fix for the spell is to just limit the spell by weight, which is the logic used for most of the transformation spells under the earth warlock. Or as an alternative, limit the float spell by size, which makes a bit more sense since the whole point of casting the spell is to make something that normally isn't buoyant capable of floating, such as a heavy piece of equipment.

This is a single being and a valid target. Plus if it could work it might be a way for the New Navy to be able to actually fight it.

I correct myself, I found this in the book about the tentacles under The Reachers from the Deep "can be considered independant life essences or extentions of the monster itself". So I guess the Limbs could be individualy targeted, then the question becomes how "Buoyant" does the spell make the target? As Colt47 points out these is no weight limit given for the 3 P.P.E. spell.

Posted: **Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:13 pm**

Akashic Soldier wrote:I cast FLOAT ON WATER on one on the LOTD's tentacles when it comes at me.

What happens?

If I was the GM I would have to think about it. Thinking on how much of the tentacle is effected and how long it would take for the LOTD to adjust to the effects of the magic.
But as an initial effect would be for the tentacle to float upward for 7-15 sec.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:07 am**

I adjust the PPE cost based on size. So for a LotD tentacle I'm feeling about 3000 PPE. But then that tentacle would float upward, but at a certain point it would just be pointing upward unless the LotD wanted to surface. However, if you cast it on enough tentacles, I could see the whole LotD floating upward.

But I run spells on the fly and I want players to do wacky stuff with them, but I set the balance by determining the final PPE cost of what they are attempting. I let players double PPE costs to double FX or half casting times, etc. Makes magic more fluid and I don't have to consult the rulebook.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:49 am**

Spinachcat wrote:I adjust the PPE cost based on size. So for a LotD tentacle I'm feeling about 3000 PPE. But then that tentacle would float upward, but at a certain point it would just be pointing upward unless the LotD wanted to surface. However, if you cast it on enough tentacles, I could see the whole LotD floating upward.

But I run spells on the fly and I want players to do wacky stuff with them, but I set the balance by determining the final PPE cost of what they are attempting. I let players double PPE costs to double FX or half casting times, etc. Makes magic more fluid and I don't have to consult the rulebook.

I let magic break the rules of common sense. :lol:

That is why in my game if he failed his save (unlikely lets face it) he'd start to surface and then the Players and whoever was unfortunate enough to be around would need deal with the damn thing.

Like THIS, except BIGGER.

Guess I was just hoping for funny scenarios or possible exploration of this more than just "would it work?"
I mean... within the rules... far as I can see... the ONLY defense he has (again other than making the save) is that the tentacle can count as its own thing, so the main body likely would not be targeted by the spell. However, without that "they count as their own thing" caveat I'd allow it to bring him to the surface with a massive surge of mystic power.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:57 am**

Akashic Soldier wrote:
Spinachcat wrote:I adjust the PPE cost based on size. So for a LotD tentacle I'm feeling about 3000 PPE. But then that tentacle would float upward, but at a certain point it would just be pointing upward unless the LotD wanted to surface. However, if you cast it on enough tentacles, I could see the whole LotD floating upward.

But I run spells on the fly and I want players to do wacky stuff with them, but I set the balance by determining the final PPE cost of what they are attempting. I let players double PPE costs to double FX or half casting times, etc. Makes magic more fluid and I don't have to consult the rulebook.

I let magic break the rules of common sense.
That is why in my game if he failed his save (unlikely lets face it) he'd start to surface and then the Players and whoever was unfortunate enough to be around would need deal with the damn thing.

Like THIS, except BIGGER.

Guess I was just hoping for funny scenarios or possible exploration of this more than just "would it work?"
I mean... within the rules... far as I can see... the ONLY defense he has (again other than making the save) is that the tentacle can count as its own thing, so the main body likely would not be targeted by the spell. However, without that "they count as their own thing" caveat I'd allow it to bring him to the surface with a massive surge of mystic power.

Looking at that "tentacle is it's own entity" thing I would say that, at most, the tentacle is effectively out of combat for the spell duration, and if you could get enough of them...not really sure how many...before the spell wore off, I would say they could displace enough of his weight and mass to float to the surface, plus he couldn't hold himself underwater.

I mean think about tying floatys to yourself and then trying to hold yourself underwater, at some point it's to much for you. and if a tentacle couldn't be submerged...

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:01 am**

GenThunderfist wrote:
Akashic Soldier wrote:
Spinachcat wrote:I adjust the PPE cost based on size. So for a LotD tentacle I'm feeling about 3000 PPE. But then that tentacle would float upward, but at a certain point it would just be pointing upward unless the LotD wanted to surface. However, if you cast it on enough tentacles, I could see the whole LotD floating upward.

But I run spells on the fly and I want players to do wacky stuff with them, but I set the balance by determining the final PPE cost of what they are attempting. I let players double PPE costs to double FX or half casting times, etc. Makes magic more fluid and I don't have to consult the rulebook.

I let magic break the rules of common sense.
That is why in my game if he failed his save (unlikely lets face it) he'd start to surface and then the Players and whoever was unfortunate enough to be around would need deal with the damn thing.

Like THIS, except BIGGER.

Guess I was just hoping for funny scenarios or possible exploration of this more than just "would it work?"
I mean... within the rules... far as I can see... the ONLY defense he has (again other than making the save) is that the tentacle can count as its own thing, so the main body likely would not be targeted by the spell. However, without that "they count as their own thing" caveat I'd allow it to bring him to the surface with a massive surge of mystic power.

Looking at that "tentacle is it's own entity" thing I would say that, at most, the tentacle is effectively out of combat for the spell duration, and if you could get enough of them...not really sure how many...before the spell wore off, I would say they could displace enough of his weight and mass to float to the surface, plus he couldn't hold himself underwater.

I mean think about tying floatys to yourself and then trying to hold yourself underwater, at some point it's to much for you. and if a tentacle couldn't be submerged...

Thats a good point (and an interesting "New Navy" adventure) as the PC's try to get the LOTD to surface so they can attack him. Kind of like a video game boss. The spell lasts 30 minutes per level of the caster (I believe) but they are very far apart so you have to race from tentacle to tentacle and then make him surface while dealing with his attacks and his minions. Then when he is fully surfaced they shoot him with the "big gun" or the entire navy and anything Lemuria has sitting around until he sinks back down beneath the water. Rinse and repeat until you destroy him or everyone is killed by him and his minions!

Of course that adventure would be how everyone learns that destroying his physical form is not actually enough to get rid of him permanently. :lol:

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:05 am**

Akashic Soldier wrote:
GenThunderfist wrote:
Akashic Soldier wrote:
Spinachcat wrote:I adjust the PPE cost based on size. So for a LotD tentacle I'm feeling about 3000 PPE. But then that tentacle would float upward, but at a certain point it would just be pointing upward unless the LotD wanted to surface. However, if you cast it on enough tentacles, I could see the whole LotD floating upward.

But I run spells on the fly and I want players to do wacky stuff with them, but I set the balance by determining the final PPE cost of what they are attempting. I let players double PPE costs to double FX or half casting times, etc. Makes magic more fluid and I don't have to consult the rulebook.

I let magic break the rules of common sense.
That is why in my game if he failed his save (unlikely lets face it) he'd start to surface and then the Players and whoever was unfortunate enough to be around would need deal with the damn thing.

Like THIS, except BIGGER.

Guess I was just hoping for funny scenarios or possible exploration of this more than just "would it work?"
I mean... within the rules... far as I can see... the ONLY defense he has (again other than making the save) is that the tentacle can count as its own thing, so the main body likely would not be targeted by the spell. However, without that "they count as their own thing" caveat I'd allow it to bring him to the surface with a massive surge of mystic power.

Looking at that "tentacle is it's own entity" thing I would say that, at most, the tentacle is effectively out of combat for the spell duration, and if you could get enough of them...not really sure how many...before the spell wore off, I would say they could displace enough of his weight and mass to float to the surface, plus he couldn't hold himself underwater.

I mean think about tying floatys to yourself and then trying to hold yourself underwater, at some point it's to much for you. and if a tentacle couldn't be submerged...

Thats a good point (and an interesting "New Navy" adventure) as the PC's try to get the LOTD to surface so they can attack him. Kind of like a video game boss. The spell lasts 30 minutes per level of the caster (I believe) but they are very far apart so you have to race from tentacle to tentacle and then make him surface while dealing with his attacks and his minions. Then when he is fully surfaced they shoot him with the "big gun" or the entire navy and anything Lemuria has sitting around until he sinks back down beneath the water. Rinse and repeat until you destroy him or everyone is killed by him and his minions!

Of course that adventure would be how everyone learns that destroying his physical form is not actually enough to get rid of him permanently.

Like any classic baddie boss would he only take 3 surface trips to destroy and sit there with a flashing weakpoint while we open up on him? :lol:

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:10 am**

GenThunderfist wrote:Like any classic baddie boss would he only take 3 surface trips to destroy and sit there with a flashing weakpoint while we open up on him?

It depends on what you have shooting him. :lol:

If I was running it I would just add the average of all the attacks together from every single thing attacking him and then reduce that by 1/4th to account for "misses" and wear away at his M.D.C. since its specifically listed. Though if you have ALL the New Navy and Lemuria there fighting the bastard in one last "final battle" scene you MIGHT be able to bring him down with one or two surfaces. MIGHT. :lol:

He has so much M.D.C.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:18 am**

Akashic Soldier wrote:
GenThunderfist wrote:Like any classic baddie boss would he only take 3 surface trips to destroy and sit there with a flashing weakpoint while we open up on him?

It depends on what you have shooting him.
If I was running it I would just add the average of all the attacks together from every single thing attacking him and then reduce that by 1/4th to account for "misses" and wear away at his M.D.C. since its specifically listed. Though if you have ALL the New Navy and Lemuria there fighting the bastard in one last "final battle" scene you MIGHT be able to bring him down with one or two surfaces. MIGHT.

He has so much M.D.C.

It's a pretty stupid amount really. It's inane...haha

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:21 am**

GenThunderfist wrote:
Akashic Soldier wrote:
GenThunderfist wrote:Like any classic baddie boss would he only take 3 surface trips to destroy and sit there with a flashing weakpoint while we open up on him?

It depends on what you have shooting him.
If I was running it I would just add the average of all the attacks together from every single thing attacking him and then reduce that by 1/4th to account for "misses" and wear away at his M.D.C. since its specifically listed. Though if you have ALL the New Navy and Lemuria there fighting the bastard in one last "final battle" scene you MIGHT be able to bring him down with one or two surfaces. MIGHT.

He has so much M.D.C.

It's a pretty stupid amount really. It's inane...haha

Its not so unreasonable when you actually consider how big he is. Do a bit of research into how deep that trench is than keep in mind that from it he can reach out of the ocean and inland. He is large beyond our imagining. I'm willing to bet he is bigger than some small countries.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:25 am**

Akashic Soldier wrote:
GenThunderfist wrote:
Akashic Soldier wrote:
GenThunderfist wrote:Like any classic baddie boss would he only take 3 surface trips to destroy and sit there with a flashing weakpoint while we open up on him?

It depends on what you have shooting him.
If I was running it I would just add the average of all the attacks together from every single thing attacking him and then reduce that by 1/4th to account for "misses" and wear away at his M.D.C. since its specifically listed. Though if you have ALL the New Navy and Lemuria there fighting the bastard in one last "final battle" scene you MIGHT be able to bring him down with one or two surfaces. MIGHT.

He has so much M.D.C.

I meant inane to fight him...forgot to finish that thought, haha.

But yeah, he's huge. And impossible to technically kill...
It's a pretty stupid amount really. It's inane...haha

Its not so unreasonable when you actually consider how big he is. Do a bit of research into how deep that trench is than keep in mind that from it he can reach out of the ocean and inland. He is large beyond our imagining. I'm willing to bet he is bigger than some small countries.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:41 am**

GenThunderfist wrote:
Akashic Soldier wrote:
GenThunderfist wrote:Like any classic baddie boss would he only take 3 surface trips to destroy and sit there with a flashing weakpoint while we open up on him?

It depends on what you have shooting him.
If I was running it I would just add the average of all the attacks together from every single thing attacking him and then reduce that by 1/4th to account for "misses" and wear away at his M.D.C. since its specifically listed. Though if you have ALL the New Navy and Lemuria there fighting the bastard in one last "final battle" scene you MIGHT be able to bring him down with one or two surfaces. MIGHT.

He has so much M.D.C.

It's a pretty stupid amount really. It's inane...haha

Don’t forget that the LOTD is sitting at the bottom of the Deepest trench in the Ocean. It would take him a long time to reach the surface, just as it takes a while for some one who jumped out of a plane to hit the ground (air resistance/terminal velocity), water resistance (which is a lot more then air) would slow his assent. Plus the second he realized what was happening he would cast negate magic on himself or his tentacles and sink back to the ocean floor. I’d be surprised if he managed to rise for the 100 feet before he canceled the spell.

Also Rifts: Lemuria has a new spell called Buoyancy Blast (3rd level spell, 9 P.P.E.) That goes into more detail of using buoyancy as a combat weapon.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:02 am**

I try to basically ignore the Lord of the Deep whenever possible, as the reach and range of the creature are effectively ridiculous. If there's one thing I dislike about Rifts, it's that. Why does anything live east of the Appalachians or West of the Rockies? Let me explain to you how this actually works.

Lord of the Deep gets a cramp. Needs to stretch. Stretches some tentacles out and flounders around. SMASH, SMASH, SMASH, SMASH!

Random communities are destroyed, trees crushed, etc.

Lord of the Deep says "Ahhhh...I feel so much better now." and retracts the tentacle.

This defies the bounds of quality storytelling in every possible way.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:12 pm**

Akashic Soldier wrote:I cast FLOAT ON WATER on one on the LOTD's tentacles when it comes at me.

What happens?

It saves.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:21 pm**

Akashic Soldier wrote:I cast FLOAT ON WATER on one on the LOTD's tentacles when it comes at me.

What happens?

Either its resisted and or its soo powerful it does not matter an the tentical is under his power and can do what it wants either way ..

No matter what no real negligable effect noticeable ..

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:54 pm**

Balabanto wrote:This defies the bounds of quality storytelling in every possible way.

I disagree with this on so many levels. Basically you're saying that the work of Lovecraft exceeds the bounds of quality storytelling when he is one of the greatest authors of our time--that for something to be a quality story it has to be limited or restricted to bounds you can fathom.

With this kind of thinking man would never have reached the moon.

Do I mean that every adventure with the Lord of the Deep should involve him smashing coastal cities... of course not. Why do you think he has minions after all--its so he doesn't need to waste his time doing things as trivial as that... but should he so wish, he CAN. Also, it is unlikely that the Alien Intelligence suffers from cramps but that's just me. I guess my point is that The Lord of the Deep is an earth-bound Alien Intelligence. One step down from Great Old one and there is a good chance that he is not SUPPOSED to be Cthulhu at all but Dagon though that is neither here nor there.

H.P. Lovecraft wrote:With only a slight churning to mark its rise to the surface, the thing slid into view above the dark waters. Vast, Polyphemus-like, and loathsome, it darted like a stupendous monster of nightmares to the monolith, about which it flung its gigantic scaly arms, the while it bowed its hideous head and gave vent to certain measured sounds.

Quality storytelling has many, many forms and I do not believe that there are bounds in which size nor fear should be quantified in the cataclysmic chaos of Rifts Earth. He is nightmare made manifest, he is the infinite black abyss and the incarnate manifestation of the eons of dread and terror with but gesture he reaches from the unknown like foul tide on dark waters and plucks you from your home to pull you to his murky depths so he might show you both wonderful and terrible things. He is the Lord of the Deep, the last great unknowable, the monster Fisher King and supreme master of the Watery-Abyss.

H.P. Lovecraft wrote:I cannot think of the deep sea without shuddering at the nameless things that may at this very moment be crawling and floundering on its slimy bed, worshipping their ancient stone idols and carving their own detestable likenesses on submarine obelisks of water-soaked granite. I dream of a day when they may rise above the billows to drag down in their reeking talons the remnants of puny, war-exhausted mankind --of a day when the land shall sink, and the dark ocean floor shall ascend amidst universal pandemonium.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:04 pm**

Instead of dragging half a dozen or so people to their watery fate, the Reacher destroys everything around it. The retreats back beneath the waves when spell duration expires.

The Lord of the Deep, very annoyed, either holds onto the bottom of the sea until duration expires (Supernatural PE means it will be a looong time before he gets tired), or he surfaces and wreaks furious vengeance on every thing he encounters, slaying thousands.

Smooth move.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:08 pm**

Mercdog wrote:Instead of dragging half a dozen or so people to their watery fate, the Reacher destroys everything around it. The retreats back beneath the waves when spell duration expires.

The Lord of the Deep, very annoyed, surfaces and wreaks furious vengeance on every thing he encounters, slaying thousands.

Smooth move.

Welcome to my signature. :lol:

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:09 pm**

Akashic Soldier wrote:
Mercdog wrote:Instead of dragging half a dozen or so people to their watery fate, the Reacher destroys everything around it. The retreats back beneath the waves when spell duration expires.

The Lord of the Deep, very annoyed, surfaces and wreaks furious vengeance on every thing he encounters, slaying thousands.

Smooth move.

Welcome to my signature.

A pleasure and a privilege.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:14 pm**

Balabanto wrote:I try to basically ignore the Lord of the Deep whenever possible, as the reach and range of the creature are effectively ridiculous. If there's one thing I dislike about Rifts, it's that. Why does anything live east of the Appalachians or West of the Rockies? Let me explain to you how this actually works.

Lord of the Deep gets a cramp. Needs to stretch. Stretches some tentacles out and flounders around. SMASH, SMASH, SMASH, SMASH!

Random communities are destroyed, trees crushed, etc.

Lord of the Deep says "Ahhhh...I feel so much better now." and retracts the tentacle.

This defies the bounds of quality storytelling in every possible way.

Look, he's the Inspector Gadget of the deep. Not everyone has to deal with having the ability to extend their arms accidently hundreds of miles across the ocean and smacking some poor Ocean God Worshiper into pudding. :-(

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:02 am**

i would have the tentacle attack in a frenzied state since it is unable to retreat for the duration of the spell. like
+1 attack +2 strike,parry,and dodge +4 roll. unable to escape the tentacle must fight to win.lol

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:11 pm**

say652 wrote:i would have the tentacle attack in a frenzied state since it is unable to retreat for the duration of the spell. like
+1 attack +2 strike,parry,and dodge +4 roll. unable to escape the tentacle must fight to win.lol

The point of the spell though is that the tentacle would no longer be able to move due to the fact that it can't be submerged. The lord of the deep would spend all of his time (with that tentacle at least) trying to keep it underwater, he's big enough to where he could do it, but the tentacle would be pointing straight up the whole time, not moving about. That's not possible.

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:58 pm**

GenThunderfist wrote:
say652 wrote:i would have the tentacle attack in a frenzied state since it is unable to retreat for the duration of the spell. like
+1 attack +2 strike,parry,and dodge +4 roll. unable to escape the tentacle must fight to win.lol

The point of the spell though is that the tentacle would no longer be able to move due to the fact that it can't be submerged. The lord of the deep would spend all of his time (with that tentacle at least) trying to keep it underwater, he's big enough to where he could do it, but the tentacle would be pointing straight up the whole time, not moving about. That's not possible.

I don't have my books to check, but I don't recall the spell making people rigid like a wooden plank, only bouyant like driftwood. The Reacher can still move and twist around above the water, slapping down on ships as the hundreds of smaller tentacles lining it grabbed up sailors and tossed them about.

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:17 pm**

Mercdog wrote:
GenThunderfist wrote:
say652 wrote:i would have the tentacle attack in a frenzied state since it is unable to retreat for the duration of the spell. like
+1 attack +2 strike,parry,and dodge +4 roll. unable to escape the tentacle must fight to win.lol

The point of the spell though is that the tentacle would no longer be able to move due to the fact that it can't be submerged. The lord of the deep would spend all of his time (with that tentacle at least) trying to keep it underwater, he's big enough to where he could do it, but the tentacle would be pointing straight up the whole time, not moving about. That's not possible.

I don't have my books to check, but I don't recall the spell making people rigid like a wooden plank, only bouyant like driftwood. The Reacher can still move and twist around above the water, slapping down on ships as the hundreds of smaller tentacles lining it grabbed up sailors and tossed them about.

I remember something about moving across the surface, so I think you can still move.

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:53 pm**

Akashic Soldier wrote:
Mercdog wrote:
GenThunderfist wrote:
say652 wrote:i would have the tentacle attack in a frenzied state since it is unable to retreat for the duration of the spell. like
+1 attack +2 strike,parry,and dodge +4 roll. unable to escape the tentacle must fight to win.lol

The point of the spell though is that the tentacle would no longer be able to move due to the fact that it can't be submerged. The lord of the deep would spend all of his time (with that tentacle at least) trying to keep it underwater, he's big enough to where he could do it, but the tentacle would be pointing straight up the whole time, not moving about. That's not possible.

I don't have my books to check, but I don't recall the spell making people rigid like a wooden plank, only bouyant like driftwood. The Reacher can still move and twist around above the water, slapping down on ships as the hundreds of smaller tentacles lining it grabbed up sailors and tossed them about.

I remember something about moving across the surface, so I think you can still move.

No no, maybe I was unclear.

I meant if I were to tie a flotation device to my hand, which COULD NOT BE SUBMERGED, then while underwater I would be using all my strength to keep my arm down. That arm would become immobile because the device is pulling my hand up and all my strength would only ever make it so I could just keep it down, not move it around.

Adding an attack and bonuses to combat would signify a quicker movement, but I just showed that even if I could still move it would be slower. Not faster. Faster and more fluid movement would be impossible. It had nothing to do with "making it rigid" just that movement wold be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:55 pm**

GenThunderfist wrote:No no, maybe I was unclear.

I meant if I were to tie a flotation device to my hand, which COULD NOT BE SUBMERGED, then while underwater I would be using all my strength to keep my arm down. That arm would become immobile because the device is pulling my hand up and all my strength would only ever make it so I could just keep it down, not move it around.

Adding an attack and bonuses to combat would signify a quicker movement, but I just showed that even if I could still move it would be slower. Not faster. Faster and more fluid movement would be impossible. It had nothing to do with "making it rigid" just that movement wold be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Oh, that's a really interesting point!
I had not considered that!

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:59 pm**

Akashic Soldier wrote:
GenThunderfist wrote:No no, maybe I was unclear.

I meant if I were to tie a flotation device to my hand, which COULD NOT BE SUBMERGED, then while underwater I would be using all my strength to keep my arm down. That arm would become immobile because the device is pulling my hand up and all my strength would only ever make it so I could just keep it down, not move it around.

Adding an attack and bonuses to combat would signify a quicker movement, but I just showed that even if I could still move it would be slower. Not faster. Faster and more fluid movement would be impossible. It had nothing to do with "making it rigid" just that movement wold be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Oh, that's a really interesting point!
I had not considered that!

Right? So for the duration of the spell, that tentacle would be effectively out of combat, or at the very least, no chance of initiative and penalties to strike, parry, and dodge.

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:18 pm**

since we've determined that the spell would effect only the tentacle in this scenario, acting as an independent creature and all, it would be effectively useless as unlike a normal person affected by the spell, the tentacle is anchored to the LotD. Who could keep it from surfacing, like a person attached to an anchor on a short chain, except that this chain is a supernaturally strong muscle which could make it move and behave however he wanted it to. So if the LotD went limp, the tentacle would float up and stay there, but the moment he wanted to he could just pull it back down and thrash around with it as normal.

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:58 pm**

GenThunderfist wrote:
Akashic Soldier wrote:
Mercdog wrote:
GenThunderfist wrote:
say652 wrote:i would have the tentacle attack in a frenzied state since it is unable to retreat for the duration of the spell. like
+1 attack +2 strike,parry,and dodge +4 roll. unable to escape the tentacle must fight to win.lol

The point of the spell though is that the tentacle would no longer be able to move due to the fact that it can't be submerged. The lord of the deep would spend all of his time (with that tentacle at least) trying to keep it underwater, he's big enough to where he could do it, but the tentacle would be pointing straight up the whole time, not moving about. That's not possible.

I don't have my books to check, but I don't recall the spell making people rigid like a wooden plank, only bouyant like driftwood. The Reacher can still move and twist around above the water, slapping down on ships as the hundreds of smaller tentacles lining it grabbed up sailors and tossed them about.

I remember something about moving across the surface, so I think you can still move.

No no, maybe I was unclear.

I meant if I were to tie a flotation device to my hand, which COULD NOT BE SUBMERGED, then while underwater I would be using all my strength to keep my arm down. That arm would become immobile because the device is pulling my hand up and all my strength would only ever make it so I could just keep it down, not move it around.

Adding an attack and bonuses to combat would signify a quicker movement, but I just showed that even if I could still move it would be slower. Not faster. Faster and more fluid movement would be impossible. It had nothing to do with "making it rigid" just that movement wold be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

OK, I see where your coming from now.

Posted: **Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:21 pm**

GenThunderfist wrote:
Akashic Soldier wrote:
Mercdog wrote:
GenThunderfist wrote:
say652 wrote:i would have the tentacle attack in a frenzied state since it is unable to retreat for the duration of the spell. like
+1 attack +2 strike,parry,and dodge +4 roll. unable to escape the tentacle must fight to win.lol

The point of the spell though is that the tentacle would no longer be able to move due to the fact that it can't be submerged. The lord of the deep would spend all of his time (with that tentacle at least) trying to keep it underwater, he's big enough to where he could do it, but the tentacle would be pointing straight up the whole time, not moving about. That's not possible.

I don't have my books to check, but I don't recall the spell making people rigid like a wooden plank, only bouyant like driftwood. The Reacher can still move and twist around above the water, slapping down on ships as the hundreds of smaller tentacles lining it grabbed up sailors and tossed them about.

I remember something about moving across the surface, so I think you can still move.

No no, maybe I was unclear.

I meant if I were to tie a flotation device to my hand, which COULD NOT BE SUBMERGED, then while underwater I would be using all my strength to keep my arm down. That arm would become immobile because the device is pulling my hand up and all my strength would only ever make it so I could just keep it down, not move it around.

Adding an attack and bonuses to combat would signify a quicker movement, but I just showed that even if I could still move it would be slower. Not faster. Faster and more fluid movement would be impossible. It had nothing to do with "making it rigid" just that movement wold be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Well the first 6 miles of the tentacle would be sticking straight up from the LOTD position in the trench, the other 1994 miles of it would be floating on the Surface of the water and could move as it wished, it just would not be able to submerge. so it would be more like attaching a flotation device to your upper arm.

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