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When I first read Triax and the NGR I saw the Gargoyles trying to be a true NGR rival. Emperor Zerostein bringing other D-bees under their banner to crush the humans and other goodie-two-shoes forces. Simvan, orcs, giants, and other monsterous D-bees brought into their society to show the "Powers That Be" that they are more than demonic cannon fodder. Forcing his subjects to adapt to Rifts Earth and technology putting them on par with the NGR.

So my question is, after Triax 2 how do you guys play the Gargoyles?

I haven't done a game in Europe since Traix 2 came out, but if I did I'd show them as a fractured and more and more disorganized. The Gargoyles were sort of held by the cult of charisma of their leaders. When the Brodkill broke away and they started fighting amongst themselves, they lost that, and being armies of evil demonic beings, unless they're just terrorified of their leaders or have a GOOD reason to follow along they won't.

So there's alot of infighting and descention in the ranks which makes them alot less effective as a fighting force. The NGR and CS are taking advantage of it.

The real question is, when Megaverse in flames comes out and the Demon and Devils hit rifts earth, will the Gargoyles be bolstered and sweep back to kick some NGR/CS ass, or will the Demons and Devils absorb the gargoyle empire into one of their forces, or.... will the Demons or Devils Obliterate the remaining Gargoyles?

lots of possibilities. And we really don't know which (( if any)) Kevin will choose.

I will be interested to see the Phoenix Empire when the Demon/Devil war makes it to Rifts Earth. Or any of the other major powers of evil.

Triax 2 basically says Zerostein has held on to a core of his empire. Do either of you have that effect things?

Does anyone use other races as clients or auxilieries in your Gargoyle Empires? Or is it strictly the Gargoyles alone?

Seneca wrote:Triax 2 basically says Zerostein has held on to a core of his empire. Do either of you have that effect things?

Does anyone use other races as clients or auxilieries in your Gargoyle Empires? Or is it strictly the Gargoyles alone?

This is a good thread and a good topic. You will have my answer when I'm done with Monster Kingdoms of Europe.

the main thing Zerstrum needs is a new source of weapons. IIRC, Splynncryth and atlantis has basically dropped the Garg's almost entirely, and while the Phoenix Empire gives some support, i doubt it can supply enough guns, ammo, mecha, and so on to let Zerstrum reclaim territory. at least not without some major industrial improvements.

however, i don't know who else might back them. most of the major 'badguys' see gargoyles as just disposable minions (and thus would either try to take over themselves, or would prefer to see the Garg empire collapse.)

Naruni will always sell them.

maybe.. though it would depend on what their long term goals are and whether the garg's can afford naruni products.
the Naruni aren't really interested in slavestock like the splugorth, and the garg's basically don't have any resources to speak of aside from the people and critters they could capture. and supplying naruni guns to the garg's might prevent sales in europe, since the garg's are so disliked there. and the garg's having former ties with the Splugorth, and current ties with the Phoenix empire (a Splugorth ally of sorts) might make the naruni wary of getting involved.

personally i like the idea of the Phoenix empire deciding to play a larger role in the regions power disputes by backing the garg's.. it would give the empire an excuse to improve its own military capabilities (by building up production infrastructure and establishing allies), and the NGR's amphibious landing would seem to be a big sign that with the garg threat gone, the NGR now has not only the reach to start picking off some of the other enemies in the region, but also the actual capability to prosecute such a conflict. making the NGr a major potential threat to the Phoenix empire.

glitterboy2098 wrote:maybe.. though it would depend on what their long term goals are and whether the garg's can afford naruni products.
the Naruni aren't really interested in slavestock like the splugorth, and the garg's basically don't have any resources to speak of aside from the people and critters they could capture. and supplying naruni guns to the garg's might prevent sales in europe, since the garg's are so disliked there. and the garg's having former ties with the Splugorth, and current ties with the Phoenix empire (a Splugorth ally of sorts) might make the naruni wary of getting involved.

On the other hand, the opportunity to steal a market from the Sploogies might be awfully tempting...

personally i like the idea of the Phoenix empire deciding to play a larger role in the regions power disputes by backing the garg's.. it would give the empire an excuse to improve its own military capabilities (by building up production infrastructure and establishing allies), and the NGR's amphibious landing would seem to be a big sign that with the garg threat gone, the NGR now has not only the reach to start picking off some of the other enemies in the region, but also the actual capability to prosecute such a conflict. making the NGr a major potential threat to the Phoenix empire.

There's also the possibility of the Naut'Yll getting involved to spite the New Navy or forestall their making a real alliance with the NGR.

Doing something about the Angel of Death - that is a technological powerhouse AND the true power behind the Brodkill - could have considerable benefits too, resource AND morale-wise.

Seeking out some way to enhance the Gargoyle's limited magic capabilities. Something that made the seed of earth elemental power inherent to the race blossom could certainly bolster the might of Zerstrun's forces overall.

And if desperate for destruction and revenge, pledging his forces to the service of Hades as a minor lord or somesuch to get their help in ganking the NGR is not exactly the worse he could do.

Ive ran the Gargoyle wars in the past (prior to Triax 2). In that setting, the New Phoenix Empire was sending troops of demons to aid in an offensive (so Hades style demons) as well as organizing the Orcs, Simvan, and Ogres of Europe. Splynn was supplying these troops with Kittani weapons, although they were not directly involved. Had I continued to campaign after Triax 2, I would have had the NGR gain the upper hand and splinter all the groups like what happened to the Brodkil and Gargoyles in Triax 2. As mentioned above, the next big change of events would depend on what happens with the Minion War.

As far as the OP, Id play the Gargoyles in two different camps. One is still loyal to Zerostein and armed with the Kittani Gargoyle weapons and they are on the defensive trying to salvage the empire. But since the NGR offensive, Atlantis has pulled out of supplying weapons of war, and the New Phoenix Empire withdrew their troops. The other, in France, would be disorganized, cut off from their Eastern former allies and poorly equipped. Not really on the offensive, but not really on the defensive either. Should be easy for NGR troops to mop up those Gargoyles.

Of late i have toyed with the idea of Demon Lords using the disorder in France to infiltrate a force of their own, as the place is already full of divided and disorganized gargoyle flocks and tribes, no one might catch on to a few thousand more joining the general brawl and dominate the splintered groups taking over France and making it into a major beachead of the forces of Hades in Rifts Earth.

How do you think this kind of thing could play out?

SolCannibal wrote:Of late i have toyed with the idea of Demon Lords using the disorder in France to infiltrate a force of their own, as the place is already full of divided and disorganized gargoyle flocks and tribes, no one might catch on to a few thousand more joining the general brawl and dominate the splintered groups taking over France and making it into a major beachead of the forces of Hades in Rifts Earth.

How do you think this kind of thing could play out?

I think this would play out pretty well for them. The Blood Druids are pretty territorial though and might take issu with this.

The Galactus Kid wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:Of late i have toyed with the idea of Demon Lords using the disorder in France to infiltrate a force of their own, as the place is already full of divided and disorganized gargoyle flocks and tribes, no one might catch on to a few thousand more joining the general brawl and dominate the splintered groups taking over France and making it into a major beachead of the forces of Hades in Rifts Earth.

How do you think this kind of thing could play out?

I think this would play out pretty well for them. The Blood Druids are pretty territorial though and might take issue with this.

Great - the more complications, the better, as i'm planning for this invasion to be a great show of the "whoever wins a war is the side that commits less bone-headed mistakes" principle, with a bunch of far from loyal shangaied minions of darkness. Command mistakes for the PCs to deal with is half the fun.