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hungry_hippo wrote:

flatline wrote:Because being an SDC critter in an MDC environment means your armor is your life.

--flatline

have you ever worn a set of body armor? it saves your life sure... but it sucks. And even then, most infantrymen only wear the torso portion and maybe the crotch protector.
they have the option to wear thigh and shoulder armor but they don't because it's uncomfortable.

hungry_hippo wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:rifts enviromental armor is more like a spacesuit or a deep diving suit. you have fans to circulate the air in the helmet. you have cooling tube garments to actively cool or heat your body and keep you from overheating or going hypothermic. you have plenty of padding to keep the suit from rubbing the wrong way.

is is comfortable? probably less so than regular clothes, but you wear armor for protection, not comfort.

but would the coalition army really pay to have all of those comforts like a self cooling unit put in for their most basic soldier? especially when they have millions to accommodate?

glitterboy2098 wrote:rifts enviromental armor is more like a spacesuit or a deep diving suit. you have fans to circulate the air in the helmet. you have cooling tube garments to actively cool or heat your body and keep you from overheating or going hypothermic. you have plenty of padding to keep the suit from rubbing the wrong way.

is is comfortable? probably less so than regular clothes, but you wear armor for protection, not comfort.

hungry_hippo wrote:Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

Killer Cyborg wrote:

hungry_hippo wrote:Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

Okay... here's why:
1. Armor is bulky, but if it keeps you from getting killed then it's worth it.
2. The armor has A/C.
3. Apparently, the armor does not make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.

Basically, you're kind of asking why Superman would ever jump off a building, since everybody knows that flight is impossible and he'd just fall to his death.
Either go with the premises of the setting, or don't try to interact with the setting.

hungry_hippo wrote:Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

hungry_hippo wrote:Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:If you have an issue with environmentally sealed body armor, you are in the wrong setting.

flatline wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:If you have an issue with environmentally sealed body armor, you are in the wrong setting.

Really? My characters never wore environmentally sealed body armor unless it was part of a disguise.

Made a lot of money selling "used" armor, though.

--flatline

hungry_hippo wrote:Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

flatline wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:If you have an issue with environmentally sealed body armor, you are in the wrong setting.

Really? My characters never wore environmentally sealed body armor unless it was part of a disguise.

Made a lot of money selling "used" armor, though.

--flatline

Evil Genius Prime wrote:

hungry_hippo wrote:Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

I smell a troll.

But anyway, you've made some false assumptions here.

1. It's not hot. It keeps the person inside at the ideal temperature.
2. The idea of environmental armor may be bs TO YOU, but the fact remains that in this setting it is environmental armor and it works like it says in the books. It's sealed, has an internal oxygen supply etc.
3. The helmet doesn't make you lose sensory capability. Otherwise there would be negative penalties to perception and similar skills in the description. If I remember correctly the new style Dead Boy armor has a HUD (Heads Up Display, with all manner of sensory info being displayed for the wearer) inside the helmet.

Have you read the description in the RUE page 261, of the specifics of environmental armor? I suggest you read it again. Or maybe play another RPG if the specifics of this one are as you put it, BS.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

flatline wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:If you have an issue with environmentally sealed body armor, you are in the wrong setting.

Really? My characters never wore environmentally sealed body armor unless it was part of a disguise.

Made a lot of money selling "used" armor, though.

--flatline

Your char's used magic to get the armor though, right?

Colt47 wrote:It comes down to a suspension of disbelief ordeal. The CS has ALWAYS had problems with their armor since the inception of the game, though thankfully they got away from some of it by moving to the newer design. The problems with the old armor include having a faceplate that would likely remind villagers of old legendary world slayer demons, undead, and necromancers, armor plates that would drive someone crazy (try wearing a storm trooper costume and imagine it with air conditioning... not much of an improvement), and an extreme lack of peripheral vision. In reality the CS would be taking more losses from people exploiting the armor weaknesses, even if the armor prevented opportunistic shots to a barely exposed face or neck.

The new style armor takes care of a lot of the issues of the old one by replacing the face mask with an EVA style visor. However, the armor would likely be uncomfortable for long periods just like the previous suit. Also, it seems kind of ironic that the CS like to hide their human faces behind helmets all the time as it provides some serious security risks, such as having a human like D-bee don a full environmental suit. It's not like a Dog Boy can smell someone through an air tight piece of equipment, especially one that probably has the smell of d-bee on it anyway given normal operations.

On a side note, wearing full EBA of any kind should probably give a -2 penalty to perception anyway due to the nature of wearing an enclosed suit. The only ones that probably could get away from it are Triax and Naruni, since they got the tech to make decent video projections on the inside of the helmet.

Wooly wrote:

Colt47 wrote:It comes down to a suspension of disbelief ordeal. The CS has ALWAYS had problems with their armor since the inception of the game, though thankfully they got away from some of it by moving to the newer design. The problems with the old armor include having a faceplate that would likely remind villagers of old legendary world slayer demons, undead, and necromancers, armor plates that would drive someone crazy (try wearing a storm trooper costume and imagine it with air conditioning... not much of an improvement), and an extreme lack of peripheral vision. In reality the CS would be taking more losses from people exploiting the armor weaknesses, even if the armor prevented opportunistic shots to a barely exposed face or neck.

The new style armor takes care of a lot of the issues of the old one by replacing the face mask with an EVA style visor. However, the armor would likely be uncomfortable for long periods just like the previous suit. Also, it seems kind of ironic that the CS like to hide their human faces behind helmets all the time as it provides some serious security risks, such as having a human like D-bee don a full environmental suit. It's not like a Dog Boy can smell someone through an air tight piece of equipment, especially one that probably has the smell of d-bee on it anyway given normal operations.

On a side note, wearing full EBA of any kind should probably give a -2 penalty to perception anyway due to the nature of wearing an enclosed suit. The only ones that probably could get away from it are Triax and Naruni, since they got the tech to make decent video projections on the inside of the helmet.

Heads up displays have been around on fighter pilot and attack helicopter pilot helmets for at least 20 years. They are not an advanced technology. The capability to produce small fairly high resolution LED screens is here now.

Enhanced electronic ear protection/enhancement also already exists. It enhances sound picking up quiet noises and cancels out loud noises over a certain decibel range (like gun shots). You can buy a cheap pair of ear muff style electronic ear pro for $50 from Peltor.

The higher end stuff that the military uses like MSA Sordin incorporates communications (radio) with the hearing protection. With a throat microphone that attaches around the neck against ones vocal cords. You can mutter under your breath and transmit a normal clear spoken message. All this technology has been around for 20 years. high resolution video cameras with zoom features are the size of a tube of lip stick.

I would not assign any penalty to a character wearing full EBA. In fact if anything the technology to build EBA exists now it is only a matter of materials technology improving to make it light enough to wear.

EBA should probably run on E-clips to power ancillary systems. Night Vision, Thermal, IR, video cameras, digital recorder, electronic hearing protection, fans, AC/heater, filters, air pump/compressor (I assume it can recharge its small internal tank with clean, filtered compressed air under non-NBC conditions), radio, radio encryption hardware, et al

Colt47 wrote:

Wooly wrote:

Colt47 wrote:It comes down to a suspension of disbelief ordeal. The CS has ALWAYS had problems with their armor since the inception of the game, though thankfully they got away from some of it by moving to the newer design. The problems with the old armor include having a faceplate that would likely remind villagers of old legendary world slayer demons, undead, and necromancers, armor plates that would drive someone crazy (try wearing a storm trooper costume and imagine it with air conditioning... not much of an improvement), and an extreme lack of peripheral vision. In reality the CS would be taking more losses from people exploiting the armor weaknesses, even if the armor prevented opportunistic shots to a barely exposed face or neck.

The new style armor takes care of a lot of the issues of the old one by replacing the face mask with an EVA style visor. However, the armor would likely be uncomfortable for long periods just like the previous suit. Also, it seems kind of ironic that the CS like to hide their human faces behind helmets all the time as it provides some serious security risks, such as having a human like D-bee don a full environmental suit. It's not like a Dog Boy can smell someone through an air tight piece of equipment, especially one that probably has the smell of d-bee on it anyway given normal operations.

On a side note, wearing full EBA of any kind should probably give a -2 penalty to perception anyway due to the nature of wearing an enclosed suit. The only ones that probably could get away from it are Triax and Naruni, since they got the tech to make decent video projections on the inside of the helmet.

Heads up displays have been around on fighter pilot and attack helicopter pilot helmets for at least 20 years. They are not an advanced technology. The capability to produce small fairly high resolution LED screens is here now.

Enhanced electronic ear protection/enhancement also already exists. It enhances sound picking up quiet noises and cancels out loud noises over a certain decibel range (like gun shots). You can buy a cheap pair of ear muff style electronic ear pro for $50 from Peltor.

The higher end stuff that the military uses like MSA Sordin incorporates communications (radio) with the hearing protection. With a throat microphone that attaches around the neck against ones vocal cords. You can mutter under your breath and transmit a normal clear spoken message. All this technology has been around for 20 years. high resolution video cameras with zoom features are the size of a tube of lip stick.

I would not assign any penalty to a character wearing full EBA. In fact if anything the technology to build EBA exists now it is only a matter of materials technology improving to make it light enough to wear.

EBA should probably run on E-clips to power ancillary systems. Night Vision, Thermal, IR, video cameras, digital recorder, electronic hearing protection, fans, AC/heater, filters, air pump/compressor (I assume it can recharge its small internal tank with clean, filtered compressed air under non-NBC conditions), radio, radio encryption hardware, et al

Then give the tech to the CS, because they don't have it according to the books. The only ones who have HUD camera displays are Triax and the NGR.

Wooly wrote:

Colt47 wrote:

Wooly wrote:

Colt47 wrote:It comes down to a suspension of disbelief ordeal. The CS has ALWAYS had problems with their armor since the inception of the game, though thankfully they got away from some of it by moving to the newer design. The problems with the old armor include having a faceplate that would likely remind villagers of old legendary world slayer demons, undead, and necromancers, armor plates that would drive someone crazy (try wearing a storm trooper costume and imagine it with air conditioning... not much of an improvement), and an extreme lack of peripheral vision. In reality the CS would be taking more losses from people exploiting the armor weaknesses, even if the armor prevented opportunistic shots to a barely exposed face or neck.

The new style armor takes care of a lot of the issues of the old one by replacing the face mask with an EVA style visor. However, the armor would likely be uncomfortable for long periods just like the previous suit. Also, it seems kind of ironic that the CS like to hide their human faces behind helmets all the time as it provides some serious security risks, such as having a human like D-bee don a full environmental suit. It's not like a Dog Boy can smell someone through an air tight piece of equipment, especially one that probably has the smell of d-bee on it anyway given normal operations.

On a side note, wearing full EBA of any kind should probably give a -2 penalty to perception anyway due to the nature of wearing an enclosed suit. The only ones that probably could get away from it are Triax and Naruni, since they got the tech to make decent video projections on the inside of the helmet.

Heads up displays have been around on fighter pilot and attack helicopter pilot helmets for at least 20 years. They are not an advanced technology. The capability to produce small fairly high resolution LED screens is here now.

Enhanced electronic ear protection/enhancement also already exists. It enhances sound picking up quiet noises and cancels out loud noises over a certain decibel range (like gun shots). You can buy a cheap pair of ear muff style electronic ear pro for $50 from Peltor.

The higher end stuff that the military uses like MSA Sordin incorporates communications (radio) with the hearing protection. With a throat microphone that attaches around the neck against ones vocal cords. You can mutter under your breath and transmit a normal clear spoken message. All this technology has been around for 20 years. high resolution video cameras with zoom features are the size of a tube of lip stick.

I would not assign any penalty to a character wearing full EBA. In fact if anything the technology to build EBA exists now it is only a matter of materials technology improving to make it light enough to wear.

EBA should probably run on E-clips to power ancillary systems. Night Vision, Thermal, IR, video cameras, digital recorder, electronic hearing protection, fans, AC/heater, filters, air pump/compressor (I assume it can recharge its small internal tank with clean, filtered compressed air under non-NBC conditions), radio, radio encryption hardware, et al

Then give the tech to the CS, because they don't have it according to the books. The only ones who have HUD camera displays are Triax and the NGR.

Is this a case of Triax was written after RMB? My memory is vague but I seem to recall that the new style CS EBA has HUDs? Either way it is silly to suggest that it is too high tech for the CS not to include in their armor.

hungry_hippo wrote:Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

hungry_hippo wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:rifts enviromental armor is more like a spacesuit or a deep diving suit. you have fans to circulate the air in the helmet. you have cooling tube garments to actively cool or heat your body and keep you from overheating or going hypothermic. you have plenty of padding to keep the suit from rubbing the wrong way.

is is comfortable? probably less so than regular clothes, but you wear armor for protection, not comfort.

but would the coalition army really pay to have all of those comforts like a self cooling unit put in for their most basic soldier? especially when they have millions to accommodate?

Traska wrote:RIFTS: We have dragons and hovercraft and flying motorcycles and roided out freaks and brain implant lunatics and cyborgs and robots and flying armor and laser guns and magic and demons and unicorns and rail guns that will knock a half ton suit on its tin plated kiester and doorways to other worlds and indestructible metal and fusion engines that can fit inside a human sized body and hives full of humanoid insects that are built like tanks and mind readers that can blow your head off like Scanners...

...but air conditioning? NO. N-O, NO. That's where I draw the line pal, what are you, crazy?

Traska wrote:RIFTS: We have dragons and hovercraft and flying motorcycles and roided out freaks and brain implant lunatics and cyborgs and robots and flying armor and laser guns and magic and demons and unicorns and rail guns that will knock a half ton suit on its tin plated kiester and doorways to other worlds and indestructible metal and fusion engines that can fit inside a human sized body and hives full of humanoid insects that are built like tanks and mind readers that can blow your head off like Scanners...

...but air conditioning? NO. N-O, NO. That's where I draw the line pal, what are you, crazy?

Traska wrote:RIFTS: We have dragons and hovercraft and flying motorcycles and roided out freaks and brain implant lunatics and cyborgs and robots and flying armor and laser guns and magic and demons and unicorns and rail guns that will knock a half ton suit on its tin plated kiester and doorways to other worlds and indestructible metal and fusion engines that can fit inside a human sized body and hives full of humanoid insects that are built like tanks and mind readers that can blow your head off like Scanners...

...but air conditioning? NO. N-O, NO. That's where I draw the line pal, what are you, crazy?

Traska wrote:RIFTS: We have dragons and hovercraft and flying motorcycles and roided out freaks and brain implant lunatics and cyborgs and robots and flying armor and laser guns and magic and demons and unicorns and rail guns that will knock a half ton suit on its tin plated kiester and doorways to other worlds and indestructible metal and fusion engines that can fit inside a human sized body and hives full of humanoid insects that are built like tanks and mind readers that can blow your head off like Scanners...

...but air conditioning? NO. N-O, NO. That's where I draw the line pal, what are you, crazy?

hungry_hippo wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:rifts enviromental armor is more like a spacesuit or a deep diving suit. you have fans to circulate the air in the helmet. you have cooling tube garments to actively cool or heat your body and keep you from overheating or going hypothermic. you have plenty of padding to keep the suit from rubbing the wrong way.

is is comfortable? probably less so than regular clothes, but you wear armor for protection, not comfort.

but would the coalition army really pay to have all of those comforts like a self cooling unit put in for their most basic soldier? especially when they have millions to accommodate?

Noon wrote:

hungry_hippo wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:rifts enviromental armor is more like a spacesuit or a deep diving suit. you have fans to circulate the air in the helmet. you have cooling tube garments to actively cool or heat your body and keep you from overheating or going hypothermic. you have plenty of padding to keep the suit from rubbing the wrong way.

is is comfortable? probably less so than regular clothes, but you wear armor for protection, not comfort.

but would the coalition army really pay to have all of those comforts like a self cooling unit put in for their most basic soldier? especially when they have millions to accommodate?

If it stops your soldiers from wearing their armour in a half assed way that gets them killed all too easily, yes.

Colt47 wrote:Actually, the truth about the stored Power Armor is that the CS likely recycles a limited supply of power cores. The armor doesn't need a power source when it is in storage and it makes the armor harder to steal (the thief would have to know how to hook up their own power supply to the stored suit and make it operational.) The question is how many power supplies are floating around and how often are they refitted.

flatline wrote:If there are hockey puck sized reactors floating around, how come we don't see any built into energy rifles for unlimited payloads?

--flatline

flatline wrote:If there are hockey puck sized reactors floating around, how come we don't see any built into energy rifles for unlimited payloads?

--flatline

Nightmask wrote:

Colt47 wrote:Actually, the truth about the stored Power Armor is that the CS likely recycles a limited supply of power cores. The armor doesn't need a power source when it is in storage and it makes the armor harder to steal (the thief would have to know how to hook up their own power supply to the stored suit and make it operational.) The question is how many power supplies are floating around and how often are they refitted.

When you consider how many skelebots and power-armor wearing troops the CS is said to have fielded (such as the supposed millions used in the war with Tolkeen) that doesn't seem very likely, somehow they do indeed have power cores for everything and more in stock when the time comes to replace a depleted one with a new one.

Colt47 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Colt47 wrote:Actually, the truth about the stored Power Armor is that the CS likely recycles a limited supply of power cores. The armor doesn't need a power source when it is in storage and it makes the armor harder to steal (the thief would have to know how to hook up their own power supply to the stored suit and make it operational.) The question is how many power supplies are floating around and how often are they refitted.

When you consider how many skelebots and power-armor wearing troops the CS is said to have fielded (such as the supposed millions used in the war with Tolkeen) that doesn't seem very likely, somehow they do indeed have power cores for everything and more in stock when the time comes to replace a depleted one with a new one.

The skelebots are a numerical issue for sure. The official numbers sound really off given what the CS controls and there is no way they found that many mothballed NEMA bots that they could scrap for skelebots and still have functional power cells. Also, their civilian infrastructure must be pretty underwhelming if they spend most of their recovered scrap materials on more giant robots and war machines, which is the impression the CWC seems to leave. It just doesn't feel as believable as Free Quebec (which still draws a few questions, but not nearly on the same scale), or the various independent kingdoms.

Nightmask wrote:

Colt47 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Colt47 wrote:Actually, the truth about the stored Power Armor is that the CS likely recycles a limited supply of power cores. The armor doesn't need a power source when it is in storage and it makes the armor harder to steal (the thief would have to know how to hook up their own power supply to the stored suit and make it operational.) The question is how many power supplies are floating around and how often are they refitted.

When you consider how many skelebots and power-armor wearing troops the CS is said to have fielded (such as the supposed millions used in the war with Tolkeen) that doesn't seem very likely, somehow they do indeed have power cores for everything and more in stock when the time comes to replace a depleted one with a new one.

The skelebots are a numerical issue for sure. The official numbers sound really off given what the CS controls and there is no way they found that many mothballed NEMA bots that they could scrap for skelebots and still have functional power cells. Also, their civilian infrastructure must be pretty underwhelming if they spend most of their recovered scrap materials on more giant robots and war machines, which is the impression the CWC seems to leave. It just doesn't feel as believable as Free Quebec (which still draws a few questions, but not nearly on the same scale), or the various independent kingdoms.

I imagine they have everyone well brainwashed to accept that on the civilian end as simply part of the eternal war against those 'evil' aliens, of which nearly all anymore are born and raised on Earth.

Yes Free Quebec at least is said to have spent centuries stockpiling Glitter Boys, making a few extra every year and prior to the war outsourced a lot of their needed production especially of power cores to Triax who could easily handle the demand. So they could just pop in the cores and have thousands of extra Glitter Boys ready to field that they didn't before. Not like the CS popping up millions of troops from nowhere.

I'm surprised that the war books didn't allow for more salvage particularly of power cores, it's extremely unlikely that nearly all of them were destroyed when the bots were (although we unfortunately aren't given an MDC rating or any idea of how large they actually are and have to extrapolate that from the size of the items that the cores are installed in). Those skelebot graveyards should provide dozens of handy cores to make use of.