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I am starting a campaign soon (if my play group goes for it) where aliens invade but starting with a world wide plague 6 months ago that results in one of three results for the person: Dead, Minor powers (1 major & 1 or 2 minor for pc's less for npcs) or bio freak (mutated but very powerful) in roughly equal chances.

This is inspired by Skraypers & i will be using the alien race (Turloks) in it as the main villains. There was a basically a kenetic strike on all world capitols. then they broadcast on all radio & TV channels that they were sorry about the kenetic strikes & the person in charge has been disciplined. We had 24 hours to surrender or face incoming invasion as best we could.

I could use some suggestions for who is the president of the us now (aka who is left). also which countries are holding out & who surendered. I am leaning towards US, Mexico, 1/2 of South America, 1/2 of of Africa the middle east & France as resisting after the first week (which is when the game will be starting in the timeline). France because paris is destroyed & they refuse to let this be WW2 all over again. the rest because weapons are fairly common in these areas.

I could use some suggestions for who is the president of the us now (aka who is left).

What are you talking about? He's still the same guy as before. It's not like some newly-empowered opportunist with Extraordinary Intelligence is using Shapechanger and Vocalization to pass himself off as the Commander-in-Chief; that's just crazy talk.

I would say France, and Africa are the 1st to surrender. Africa because they almost worship the invaders. Also many people in South America may be willing to surrender early on.

Canada and England won't surrender due to being aligned with the US. Japan won't surrender but could be the 1st ones wiped out due to being so small and surrounded by the ocean.

Aliens could set up shop in Japan after giant tsunamis whipe the island clean. They could also take out other islands in the ocean like Hawaii, Cuba, and any other smaller ones.

a Plague that only kills 1/3rd of the people and empowers 2/3ds of them with half of them being "Very powerful" seems like a bad idea. lol It'd be easier to kill people not empowered at all, wouldn't it?

Your empowerment to death ratio seems way skewed. That's a lot of super powered beings your getting ready to create; over 2 billion of them, most of whom have lost loved ones to disease and seen their civilization brought to the brink of destruction. Six months of disease and anarchy before the invasion, catalyzed by billions of normal people with super powers, would probably leave few standing governments around to even receive the alien ultimatum.

If you're familiar with the old George R. Martin Wild Card books, the alien Wild Card virus kills something like 90% of everyone infected, mutates 9% into "jokers" who more often than not possess no powers at all, just gross physical deformities, and the final 1% gained genuine super powers without significant side effects. Even with only 1% being empowered, you end up with a metric crapton of superhumans.

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:Your empowerment to death ratio seems way skewed. That's a lot of super powered beings your getting ready to create; over 2 billion of them, most of whom have lost loved ones to disease and seen their civilization brought to the brink of destruction. Six months of disease and anarchy before the invasion, catalyzed by billions of normal people with super powers, would probably leave few standing governments around to even receive the alien ultimatum.

If you're familiar with the old George R. Martin Wild Card books, the alien Wild Card virus kills something like 90% of everyone infected, mutates 9% into "jokers" who more often than not possess no powers at all, just gross physical deformities, and the final 1% gained genuine super powers without significant side effects. Even with only 1% being empowered, you end up with a metric crapton of superhumans.

I like this ratio of Superhumans more but even 1% is still high. Would be better if it was about 5% of the 1% get super powers and the other 95% are just odd looking.

the virus was not supposed to produce super powered people it was supposed to kill around half. & by minor i mean make a spot appear on a wall type power.

Juce734 wrote:I would say France, and Africa are the 1st to surrender. Africa because they almost worship the invaders. Also many people in South America may be willing to surrender early on.

Canada and England won't surrender due to being aligned with the US. Japan won't surrender but could be the 1st ones wiped out due to being so small and surrounded by the ocean.

Aliens could set up shop in Japan after giant tsunamis whipe the island clean. They could also take out other islands in the ocean like Hawaii, Cuba, and any other smaller ones.

These political reactions to a hostile alien force seem wildly unrealistic. Historically speaking, when foreign invaders come, no one just surrenders. They fight, even against superior technology and greater numbers. That's human nature: us vs. them. You always fight for "us". There are very few instances in history where a country has just laid down before invaders. Even France. Historically, france had a world-spanning empire. The idea of them as "surrender monkeys" is a fairly recent (post WWII) stereotype not based on fact. Further, there are 60+ countries in Africa. the idea of them doing anything uniformly is, frankly, juvenile.

More realistically, the aliens need to strategically eliminate military power (specifically airfields, military bases, and industrial/scientific centers) and other infrastructure that would curtail humanity's ability to pull together an organized response. If the military can't intervene, then the aliens are free to do with the civilians as they please (though even some of them will fight to the death).

Humans of any nationality aren't going to surrender. But they may be put down easily. BUT, underneath that, you're going to have secret rebellions. Someone's got to unify all these disparate rebel forces into a cohesive force, arm them with state-of-the-art weapons (maybe stolen from the aliens) and strike at the aliens where it hurts THEM most. Perhaps a small band of super-powered agents who can do black-ops style insertions and extractions, led by a charismatic NPC with some diplomatic clout, who can convince old enemies to work together for the common good of humanity?

If it were my campaign, against a superior alien force, and following a plague (historically, a very bad combination. This is exactly what happened to the native Americans just before the Europeans arrived), I'd ask myself: "What do the humans need to win?" Then I'd lay out a series of objectives that move the campaign toward this goal, and I'd keep it by my side as I plan from adventure to adventure. You'd definitely need to keep an eye on the big picture. And stay away from stereotypes - that's just lazy storytelling.

LeeNapier wrote:

Juce734 wrote:I would say France, and Africa are the 1st to surrender. Africa because they almost worship the invaders. Also many people in South America may be willing to surrender early on.

Canada and England won't surrender due to being aligned with the US. Japan won't surrender but could be the 1st ones wiped out due to being so small and surrounded by the ocean.

Aliens could set up shop in Japan after giant tsunamis whipe the island clean. They could also take out other islands in the ocean like Hawaii, Cuba, and any other smaller ones.

These political reactions to a hostile alien force seem wildly unrealistic. Historically speaking, when foreign invaders come, no one just surrenders. They fight, even against superior technology and greater numbers. That's human nature: us vs. them. You always fight for "us". There are very few instances in history where a country has just laid down before invaders. Even France. Historically, france had a world-spanning empire. The idea of them as "surrender monkeys" is a fairly recent (post WWII) stereotype not based on fact. Further, there are 60+ countries in Africa. the idea of them doing anything uniformly is, frankly, juvenile.

More realistically, the aliens need to strategically eliminate military power (specifically airfields, military bases, and industrial/scientific centers) and other infrastructure that would curtail humanity's ability to pull together an organized response. If the military can't intervene, then the aliens are free to do with the civilians as they please (though even some of them will fight to the death).

Humans of any nationality aren't going to surrender. But they may be put down easily. BUT, underneath that, you're going to have secret rebellions. Someone's got to unify all these disparate rebel forces into a cohesive force, arm them with state-of-the-art weapons (maybe stolen from the aliens) and strike at the aliens where it hurts THEM most. Perhaps a small band of super-powered agents who can do black-ops style insertions and extractions, led by a charismatic NPC with some diplomatic clout, who can convince old enemies to work together for the common good of humanity?

If it were my campaign, against a superior alien force, and following a plague (historically, a very bad combination. This is exactly what happened to the native Americans just before the Europeans arrived), I'd ask myself: "What do the humans need to win?" Then I'd lay out a series of objectives that move the campaign toward this goal, and I'd keep it by my side as I plan from adventure to adventure. You'd definitely need to keep an eye on the big picture. And stay away from stereotypes - that's just lazy storytelling.

I agree you are probably right in a realistic way. In game for fun my suggestions were made. You could use the theory that the Pyramids were built by the aliens and same for some of the Mayans precise cuts in stone that can't be replicated without extremely high end technology.

I think people could justifiably surrender depending on how much more advanced alien invaders are and the tactics those invaders use such as torture. If aliens were broadcasting torture over satellites it may freak so many people out enough to surrender into slavery.

Not sure how exactly I would run it but if you want these things to happen in your game (the surrenders, death by plague, and new found supers) then go for it.

Juce734 wrote:
I agree you are probably right in a realistic way. In game for fun my suggestions were made. You could use the theory that the Pyramids were built by the aliens and same for some of the Mayans precise cuts in stone that can't be replicated without extremely high end technology.

I think a lot of people (in game) would surrender depending on how much more advanced alien invaders are and the tactics those invaders use such as torture. If aliens were broadcasting torture over satellites it may freak so many people out enough to surrender into slavery.

Let's look at it from another point of view: What narrative purpose would having the majority of the Earth's nations surrender serve? What is it about surrender vs. fighting against a superior foe that makes surrender a more appealing story to tell?

Is fighting to free people who surrendered better for your players, or fighting to help people who will never surrender?

What about the question: "If they won't even fight for themselves, why should I fight for them?"

In my mind, a "victim" doesn't need to be powerless for the victory to be meaningful.

Again, stereotypes is lazy storytelling.

LeeNapier wrote:

Juce734 wrote:
I agree you are probably right in a realistic way. In game for fun my suggestions were made. You could use the theory that the Pyramids were built by the aliens and same for some of the Mayans precise cuts in stone that can't be replicated without extremely high end technology.

I think a lot of people (in game) would surrender depending on how much more advanced alien invaders are and the tactics those invaders use such as torture. If aliens were broadcasting torture over satellites it may freak so many people out enough to surrender into slavery.

Let's look at it from another point of view: What narrative purpose would having the majority of the Earth's nations surrender serve? What is it about surrender vs. fighting against a superior foe that makes surrender a more appealing story to tell?

Is fighting to free people who surrendered better for your players, or fighting to help people who will never surrender?

What about the question: "If they won't even fight for themselves, why should I fight for them?"

In my mind, a "victim" doesn't need to be powerless for the victory to be meaningful.

Again, stereotypes is lazy storytelling.

The original poster said they wanted help determining who surrendered. I just assumed that meant the op wanted some nations to surrender based on plans they have for the game.

As for the stereotypes being lazy storytelling I agree in most instances.

Just a note. With an Earth population of 6 billion killing off 1/3 of them makes the death toll at 2 billion. That is almost seven times the population of the US alone! Burying that many bodies would be nigh impossible, and the disease factor alone would up the number of deaths to a catastrophic level. Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting that you don't go with it, I've done this kind of thing myself on a regular basis both in my games and my writing, but you may want to have the disease to have some kind of funky effect that makes the bodies decay VERY rapidly.

What you have left if I understand your numbers right is a population that is 100% empowered. That's going to make the Turlok's mission that much harder, not to mention that you are now having to determine the powers of EVERY NPC. You may want to look at a different percentage of empowerment- one that allows you to maintain a "human" factor to the game.

Dolcet wrote:I am starting a campaign soon (if my play group goes for it) where aliens invade but starting with a world wide plague 6 months ago that results in one of three results for the person: Dead, Minor powers (1 major & 1 or 2 minor for pc's less for npcs) or bio freak (mutated but very powerful) in roughly equal chances.

This is inspired by Skraypers & i will be using the alien race (Turloks) in it as the main villains. There was a basically a kenetic strike on all world capitols. then they broadcast on all radio & TV channels that they were sorry about the kenetic strikes & the person in charge has been disciplined. We had 24 hours to surrender or face incoming invasion as best we could.

I could use some suggestions for who is the president of the us now (aka who is left). also which countries are holding out & who surendered. I am leaning towards US, Mexico, 1/2 of South America, 1/2 of of Africa the middle east & France as resisting after the first week (which is when the game will be starting in the timeline). France because paris is destroyed & they refuse to let this be WW2 all over again. the rest because weapons are fairly common in these areas.

What do the aliens want?

LeeNapier wrote:

Dolcet wrote:I am starting a campaign soon (if my play group goes for it) where aliens invade but starting with a world wide plague 6 months ago that results in one of three results for the person: Dead, Minor powers (1 major & 1 or 2 minor for pc's less for npcs) or bio freak (mutated but very powerful) in roughly equal chances.

This is inspired by Skraypers & i will be using the alien race (Turloks) in it as the main villains. There was a basically a kenetic strike on all world capitols. then they broadcast on all radio & TV channels that they were sorry about the kenetic strikes & the person in charge has been disciplined. We had 24 hours to surrender or face incoming invasion as best we could.

I could use some suggestions for who is the president of the us now (aka who is left). also which countries are holding out & who surendered. I am leaning towards US, Mexico, 1/2 of South America, 1/2 of of Africa the middle east & France as resisting after the first week (which is when the game will be starting in the timeline). France because paris is destroyed & they refuse to let this be WW2 all over again. the rest because weapons are fairly common in these areas.

What do the aliens want?

Our women, of course! Have you seen a Tarlok woman?

LeeNapier wrote:
What do the aliens want?

They want slaves & the glory of conquest. Which is why they punished the one who ordered the kenetic strikes & gave the world 24 hours notice to get ready. the game would be set starting during the 24 hour period or one week after invasion. if during the 24 hour period then nothing will have surrendered & i will play out what surreneders as the game goes on but if the party wants to start one after then a few will have surrendered i just havnt decided who.

Dolcet wrote:

LeeNapier wrote:
What do the aliens want?

They want slaves & the glory of conquest. Which is why they punished the one who ordered the kenetic strikes & gave the world 24 hours notice to get ready. the game would be set starting during the 24 hour period or one week after invasion. if during the 24 hour period then nothing will have surrendered & i will play out what surreneders as the game goes on but if the party wants to start one after then a few will have surrendered i just havnt decided who.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. If the aliens want slaves, then they want people who are physically fit, but mentally pliable. The purpose of the plague, then, should be to remove those who are sickly. the plague should be designed to weed out those who were diseased, elderly, or otherwise infirm. Make the superpowers an unforeseen side-effect of releasing a plague on a biology they're not familiar with. Like others here, I think your percentages are too high - if even .05% of people gain some minor power, that's 400,000,000 people left with superpowers (for a population of Earth = 8 billion, which is an approximation). Looking at national populations, at these numbers, even the Vatican can put forth about 40 supers, and small countries like Kiribati and Aruba can produce about 5000 supers each. That's a HELL of a lot of supers running around. So tweak those percentages.

Just as a side note - if the plague is meant to weed out the sick, then most of the people in the military will be unaffected, and perhaps enhanced. You're going to have higher rates of empowerment in the military than in the civilian population, I think.

The purpose of the conquest, then, should be to slaughter the strong-willed. The aliens need to concentrate their attacks on military resistance (which is a fair indicator of who will or won't surrender).

If the aliens employ this kind of strategy, then nationalities are irrelevant. EVERY nation's population is decimated, and a fraction of EVERY nation now has superpowers - and, likely, the will to use them.

Rather than focus on which nations will or won't surrender, focus instead on those who can or cannot offer real military resistance. Of course, by adding supers into the mix, you're going to muddy the equation a bit, since each person is roughly equal to a platoon of well-equipped soldiers (if deployed correctly). At some point, it's going to end up being a numbers game. Who can offer the most/least supers to resist the aliens? On the most powerful end, you're looking at China, India, the US, and other countries with large populations. On the low end, small nations, island nations, etc., will not be able to produce many supers to defend their own territories. Someone's going to have to convince these places to band together for mutual survival.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... population

LeeNapier wrote:

Dolcet wrote:

LeeNapier wrote:
What do the aliens want?

They want slaves & the glory of conquest. Which is why they punished the one who ordered the kenetic strikes & gave the world 24 hours notice to get ready. the game would be set starting during the 24 hour period or one week after invasion. if during the 24 hour period then nothing will have surrendered & i will play out what surreneders as the game goes on but if the party wants to start one after then a few will have surrendered i just havnt decided who.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. If the aliens want slaves, then they want people who are physically fit, but mentally pliable. The purpose of the plague, then, should be to remove those who are sickly. the plague should be designed to weed out those who were diseased, elderly, or otherwise infirm. Make the superpowers an unforeseen side-effect of releasing a plague on a biology they're not familiar with. Like others here, I think your percentages are too high - if even .05% of people gain some minor power, that's 400,000,000 people left with superpowers (for a population of Earth = 8 billion, which is an approximation). Looking at national populations, at these numbers, even the Vatican can put forth about 40 supers, and small countries like Kiribati and Aruba can produce about 5000 supers each. That's a HELL of a lot of supers running around. So tweak those percentages.

Just as a side note - if the plague is meant to weed out the sick, then most of the people in the military will be unaffected, and perhaps enhanced. You're going to have higher rates of empowerment in the military than in the civilian population, I think.

The purpose of the conquest, then, should be to slaughter the strong-willed. The aliens need to concentrate their attacks on military resistance (which is a fair indicator of who will or won't surrender).

If the aliens employ this kind of strategy, then nationalities are irrelevant. EVERY nation's population is decimated, and a fraction of EVERY nation now has superpowers - and, likely, the will to use them.

Rather than focus on which nations will or won't surrender, focus instead on those who can or cannot offer real military resistance. Of course, by adding supers into the mix, you're going to muddy the equation a bit, since each person is roughly equal to a platoon of well-equipped soldiers (if deployed correctly). At some point, it's going to end up being a numbers game. Who can offer the most/least supers to resist the aliens? On the most powerful end, you're looking at China, India, the US, and other countries with large populations. On the low end, small nations, island nations, etc., will not be able to produce many supers to defend their own territories. Someone's going to have to convince these places to band together for mutual survival.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... population

Another take on the Supers to Diseased could be based on blood type and physical health. So all of blood type (insert type) will get sick and die. All of blood type (insert type) will gain super powers of some level if healthy enough to survive the plague. So each blood type is effected differently.

Story wise it could make sense as the aliens may have only had 1 blood type which was the one that either kills the human by plague or barely allows them to survive without any effects.

according to the us blood center it breaks down like this

Blood Type & Rh How Many Have It Frequency
O Rh Positive 1 person in 3 37.4%
O Rh Negative 1 person in 15 6.6%
A Rh Positive 1 person in 3 35.7%
A Rh Negative 1 person in 16 6.3%
B Rh Positive 1 person in 12 8.5%
B Rh Negative 1 person in 67 1.5%
AB Rh Positive 1 person in 29 3.4%
AB Rh Negative 1 person in 167 .6%

if i do it by blood type I am thinking O died, B came through fine, A mutated w/power & AB got powers. i may make it a unknown factor but use these percentages.

Dolcet wrote:according to the us blood center it breaks down like this

Blood Type & Rh How Many Have It Frequency
O Rh Positive 1 person in 3 37.4%
O Rh Negative 1 person in 15 6.6%
A Rh Positive 1 person in 3 35.7%
A Rh Negative 1 person in 16 6.3%
B Rh Positive 1 person in 12 8.5%
B Rh Negative 1 person in 67 1.5%
AB Rh Positive 1 person in 29 3.4%
AB Rh Negative 1 person in 167 .6%

if i do it by blood type I am thinking O died, B came through fine, A mutated w/power & AB got powers. i may make it a unknown factor but use these percentages.

For a population of 8 billion people, you just killed 3,536,000,000 people and gave powers (on some level) to 3,664,000,000 people. The aliens don't stand a chance.

According to Skraypers there is population on Seeron of roughly 17 billion (humans 7.6 billion, Seerman 4.9 billion, Talus 6.4 billion) & roughly 1/3 has powers in one form or another. that is the basis of my original ratio.

erkay.

Dolcet wrote:the virus was not supposed to produce super powered people it was supposed to kill around half. & by minor i mean make a spot appear on a wall type power.

but it was stated one major or one or two minor.

Majors include APS metal and APS plasma and such. Minors can still be energy expulsion or superhuman strength.

Let's look at it from another point of view: What narrative purpose would having the majority of the Earth's nations surrender serve? What is it about surrender vs. fighting against a superior foe that makes surrender a more appealing story to tell?

Is fighting to free people who surrendered better for your players, or fighting to help people who will never surrender?

In fairness, it lets our heroes start off by leveling up against turncoat humans who sold out in exchange for positions of power: you can gain experience fighting the collaborators, working your way up to eventually facing the big bad aliens themselves. (Plus, it opens up covert possibilities for infiltrator-type PCs. I mean, what good is Metamorphosis: Human if there are no trusted humans to disguise yourself as? Can a Transfer/Possess hero pass himself off as an alien without speaking the language? How far can you get with Cloaking, unless the aliens see plenty of humans legitimately enter secure areas by passing the electronic scan? There's little point in trying "you don't see anything unusual" hypnosis if a human face is -- by definition -- cause for alarm; it only works if various people can genuinely belong there, such that any given person might not be a big deal.)

Regularguy wrote:

Let's look at it from another point of view: What narrative purpose would having the majority of the Earth's nations surrender serve? What is it about surrender vs. fighting against a superior foe that makes surrender a more appealing story to tell?

Is fighting to free people who surrendered better for your players, or fighting to help people who will never surrender?

In fairness, it lets our heroes start off by leveling up against turncoat humans who sold out in exchange for positions of power: you can gain experience fighting the collaborators, working your way up to eventually facing the big bad aliens themselves. (Plus, it opens up covert possibilities for infiltrator-type PCs. I mean, what good is Metamorphosis: Human if there are no trusted humans to disguise yourself as? Can a Transfer/Possess hero pass himself off as an alien without speaking the language? How far can you get with Cloaking, unless the aliens see plenty of humans legitimately enter secure areas by passing the electronic scan? There's little point in trying "you don't see anything unusual" hypnosis if a human face is -- by definition -- cause for alarm; it only works if various people can genuinely belong there, such that any given person might not be a big deal.)

Excellent - that's a perfectly valid narrative reason for having a nation or two surrender.

Wouldn't wiping out 2 billion people in one hit risk a Rifts-like scenario?

sHaka wrote:Wouldn't wiping out 2 billion people in one hit risk a Rifts-like scenario?

It should, just because Rifts was helped along by a planetary alignment doesn't require one to trigger all those ley lines just hitting them with a PPE surge they aren't prepared for. So it took a relatively small amount to trigger the Rifts Cataclysm because the planetary alignment made the quiescent ley lines sensitive to the surge, to trigger them when they're not sensitive you need a bigger surge to trip them. For which I'd have to think something around 10 billion PPE ought to do it (actually far more as you really need to include all those PPE-laden animals that die at the same time, 2 billion dead dogs for example is about the same PPE as 2 billion dead humans).

Well if I was the leader of the Aliens invaders I would wipe out China and India ther population are too big to control.

Ther were also half-Aces in Wildcards they have powers that are useless in Combat like changed your hair color or identify the Age of objects and people.
I would make that the majorty have powers like this and only a few have powers Good for combat.

gaby wrote:Well if I was the leader of the Aliens invaders I would wipe out China and India ther population are too big to control.

Ther were also half-Aces in Wildcards they have powers that are useless in Combat like changed your hair color or identify the Age of objects and people.
I would make that the majorty have powers like this and only a few have powers Good for combat.

I would actually suggest that some factor besides blood type be the "key determiner"
was just re reading the john ringo trilogy live free or die, citadel, and the hot gate

the "Horvath" aliens, dusted earth with 6 "plagues" after doing kinetic interdictions on 3 cities the cities chosen in their case, were basically ones that have some of the biggest "light footprints" at night.

the plagues were a nematode based one (check for stupidity, if you treated it with antibiotics even alcohol would work in a pinch but hurt, you would live, if you didn't it would kill you (~1week onset to "noticeable" stage, 3 days to a week from that to kill stage if untreated kill cycle was a few hours once started)

a second was a precondition killer, anyone who had a variety of issues (or tendancies towards them) such as cancer, immune deficiencies, and a number of other issues again got killed off ~30 day onset
a couple more like that, and then the last one was basically anyone that did not have the genetics to be a "natural" blond was supposed to get killed, that one also did some changes for reproduction, argueably something like the genetic modification "change" is likely what induced the powers

LeeNapier wrote:

Regularguy wrote:

Let's look at it from another point of view: What narrative purpose would having the majority of the Earth's nations surrender serve? What is it about surrender vs. fighting against a superior foe that makes surrender a more appealing story to tell?

Is fighting to free people who surrendered better for your players, or fighting to help people who will never surrender?

In fairness, it lets our heroes start off by leveling up against turncoat humans who sold out in exchange for positions of power: you can gain experience fighting the collaborators, working your way up to eventually facing the big bad aliens themselves. (Plus, it opens up covert possibilities for infiltrator-type PCs. I mean, what good is Metamorphosis: Human if there are no trusted humans to disguise yourself as? Can a Transfer/Possess hero pass himself off as an alien without speaking the language? How far can you get with Cloaking, unless the aliens see plenty of humans legitimately enter secure areas by passing the electronic scan? There's little point in trying "you don't see anything unusual" hypnosis if a human face is -- by definition -- cause for alarm; it only works if various people can genuinely belong there, such that any given person might not be a big deal.)

Excellent - that's a perfectly valid narrative reason for having a nation or two surrender.

Have few nations surrender, but use that as means to covertly have there real military assests vanish over night like Epsilon Team does in Nightbane. also if they know there will be world wide regrouping they can get that underway and have a resistance form up before the occupation starts. and excellent chance to get alien tech as well.

sHaka wrote:Wouldn't wiping out 2 billion people in one hit risk a Rifts-like scenario?

Only if that universe is set up for a Rifts event. There were more factors than just killing a few people, otherwise everytime there is a nuclear war on a planet you would get a coming of the rifts. Since there have been multiple nuclear wars on multiple worlds in multiple dimensions, and only one (or very few depending on how you slice the books) coming of the rifts it would seem that mere mass killing wont trigger one.

eliakon wrote:

sHaka wrote:Wouldn't wiping out 2 billion people in one hit risk a Rifts-like scenario?

Only if that universe is set up for a Rifts event. There were more factors than just killing a few people, otherwise everytime there is a nuclear war on a planet you would get a coming of the rifts. Since there have been multiple nuclear wars on multiple worlds in multiple dimensions, and only one (or very few depending on how you slice the books) coming of the rifts it would seem that mere mass killing wont trigger one.

Yes, as seen from the Rifts backstory the event had to happen during a rare celestial planetary event and with a good amount of deaths instantly. There are at least a few races seen in Aliens Unlimited where billions died instantly due to some terrible accident and no Rifts-level events occurred.

Nightmask wrote:

eliakon wrote:

sHaka wrote:Wouldn't wiping out 2 billion people in one hit risk a Rifts-like scenario?

Only if that universe is set up for a Rifts event. There were more factors than just killing a few people, otherwise everytime there is a nuclear war on a planet you would get a coming of the rifts. Since there have been multiple nuclear wars on multiple worlds in multiple dimensions, and only one (or very few depending on how you slice the books) coming of the rifts it would seem that mere mass killing wont trigger one.

Yes, as seen from the Rifts backstory the event had to happen during a rare celestial planetary event and with a good amount of deaths instantly. There are at least a few races seen in Aliens Unlimited where billions died instantly due to some terrible accident and no Rifts-level events occurred.

Plus it was one of a particular spot that started too. that place in South America if I recall correctly.

Rimmerdal wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

eliakon wrote:

sHaka wrote:Wouldn't wiping out 2 billion people in one hit risk a Rifts-like scenario?

Only if that universe is set up for a Rifts event. There were more factors than just killing a few people, otherwise everytime there is a nuclear war on a planet you would get a coming of the rifts. Since there have been multiple nuclear wars on multiple worlds in multiple dimensions, and only one (or very few depending on how you slice the books) coming of the rifts it would seem that mere mass killing wont trigger one.

Yes, as seen from the Rifts backstory the event had to happen during a rare celestial planetary event and with a good amount of deaths instantly. There are at least a few races seen in Aliens Unlimited where billions died instantly due to some terrible accident and no Rifts-level events occurred.

Plus it was one of a particular spot that started too. that place in South America if I recall correctly.

I don't know how important the spot was, other than perhaps the mass death that acted as the ignition point having to happen near a nexus point or ley line. I haven't reread the material on the Rifts Earth Cataclysm in a while to remember if there were any Ley Lines or Nexus Points said to have been in the area when the bombings occurred, just that due to rare celestial event the ley lines were primed and the mass death fed into them in a cascade failure. The language is vague but seems to suggest that it was simply the mass death and PPE release while the Ley Lines were charged that set things off and the lines weren't necessary at the death scenes but just all that release in general was so massive they fed off of it from a distance.

There were a number of factors that caused the Rifts Cataclysm. First was the Day, December 22... the Winter Solstice which hightened the weak ley lines. Added to this, was the planetary alignment that further strengthened those ley lines, pushing them to power levels they hadn't seen in thousands of years.

Finally there was the simultaneous deaths of over 100 million people in a very short amount of time... we're talking mere minutes (an hour at most) that pushed the already strained ley lines pas their breaking point.

Needless to say, recreating such a release of PPE is almost impossible short of nuclear bombardment of the entire world (and even that is unlikely). In fact, the original idea for Chaos Earth was that the events that created Rifts Earth were delayed by half an hour... happening on December 23rd, resulting in a cataclysm only 1/3rd as powerful, allowing some governments to survive. To be honest, I was a little disapointed when they changed the concept of Chaos Earth to be the actual past of Rifts Earth durring the Great Catacylsm. I wanted to see similarities and differences between the two settings. Oh well.

The deaths that would occur from a world wide plague wouldn't triger such a cataclysm as they would be spread out over days, weeks and months... and even with the time frame covering both a Solstice and an equinox... the best that would result is an increase in the ambiant PPE to a level more like that found in Nightbane or Palladium Fantasy... not Rifts.

Anyways... so, chances are that a massive plague that kills a quarter to a third of the population wouldn't trigger a massive magical event like that of the Great Cataclysm... but it could lead to a rise in magical phenomina... maybe even psionic powers.

The idea of using blood types is a good idea. Having an entire blood type wiped out (type O) is not bad. Both A and B would survive, but with changes on the genetic level (maybe A and B negatives undergo minor mutations without powers). It is amungst those with the AB blood type that powers manifest (with AB negatives also having physical mutations). Of course not many people would understand the connection initially... especially given that so many people have died in the last few months (setting wise).

Yes, this will still create a huge population of supers... but one that is spread around the world. Additionally, with the invasion happening so soon after the plague, there will be little time for these supers to fully understand their powers. There is also the fear that many people will have about them... especially the mutated ones. Many may see them as the vangard of the invaders... and are likely to attack their greatest hope for freedom as they are to follow them. Then there are those who will either side with the invaders (both powered and unpowered) who hope to either gain some sort of advantage or even for just revenge for any number of injustices.

Just because humanity is facing an invasion doesn't mean it will have a united front against the invaders. Many countries will probably look out for themselves... especially if the invaders are busy attacking their enemies. Would those in the Middle East come to the rescue of those in the States (or even Isreal)? Not likely... as they feel that the invaders are killing their enemies for them. So what if it makes it harder for them to win once the invaders have dealt with more serious threats... at least they outlasted their hated enemies, right? Selfish and self-serving maybe... but also typically human.

In the end, it will take a lot more that a high number of Supers to push back the invaders. It will take a level of unity that hasn't been seen in the human race since WW2 when much of the world sided against the Axis Powers. To achieve that will require both heroics and sacrifice.

I have to agree with Razorwing in that there will be hundreds of hastily cobbled together and isolated resistance groups with degrees of international collaboration varying from case to case - Though many might be sensible and put cooperation first, the "Arab Spring" constituting a great example of a real decentralized but coordinated international movement.

Populations in developing countries, already familiar with corrupt and nasty governments, might easily go for the cynical "ok, opressor changed hands, what's new? life goes on" attitude but the opposite "gank the power and gank you alien freaks, too" is also quite possible.

Also, what will those who ALREADY superpowered do or not amidst all the turmoil?